Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Markus Joschko wrote: > I wouldn't judge on the number of open job postings as tapestry 5 is > just taking up steam and I guess it takes quite some time until that > reflects into job postings. > I dunno about that; there were earlier versions of Tapestry and it doesn't seem as if Tapestry's demand curve is shifting sharply: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java+and+wicket%2C+java+and+tapestry%2C+java+and+grails%2C+java+and+jsf%2C+java+and+spring+mvc%2C+java+and+gwt&l= - Geoffrey -- Geoffrey Wiseman http://www.geoffreywiseman.ca/
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
this is probably a better proxy: http://www.google.com/trends?q=java+tapestry+%2C+java+struts%2C+ruby +rails+&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 -Original Message- From: Joel Halbert Reply-To: Tapestry users To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: How big is the Tapestry community? Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:07:26 +0100 Google Trends is often useful as a proxy: http://www.google.com/trends?q=tapestry%2C+ruby+on+rails%2C +struts&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 (I think that the high level of stuts usage in India is due to the outsourced enterprise community there) -Original Message- From: hari ks Reply-To: Tapestry users To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: How big is the Tapestry community? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 01:54:42 -0700 (PDT) >From indian job sites- naukri.com/timesjobs.com - one or two companies want >tapestry developers(along with JSF knowledge). Most companies want >jsf/struts/spring mvc/wicket(primarily JSF). Previously(1-2 yr back) companies like verizon telecom were asking for core tapestry developers in chennai. There seems need for another book that explains tapestry 5 internals(a 1000 page book). The book- "developing web applications with tapestry" doesn't explain tapestry internals as good as the tapestry web site links. -Hari Sujathan http://www.nomarriage.com --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > From: Howard Lewis Ship > Subject: How big is the Tapestry community? > To: "Tapestry users" > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 9:30 PM > Here's a question: how many people > are using Tapestry? And how do you > figure out how many people are using Tapestry? > > When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: > there's > probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I > pulled that > number out of the air. That would be one team for every > five copies of > "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. > There's at > least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I > wonder how T5 > compares to SpringMVC or Grails? > > So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for > determining > the number of Tapestry coders out there? > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > Director of Open Source Technology at Formos > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Google Trends is often useful as a proxy: http://www.google.com/trends?q=tapestry%2C+ruby+on+rails%2C +struts&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 (I think that the high level of stuts usage in India is due to the outsourced enterprise community there) -Original Message- From: hari ks Reply-To: Tapestry users To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: How big is the Tapestry community? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 01:54:42 -0700 (PDT) >From indian job sites- naukri.com/timesjobs.com - one or two companies want >tapestry developers(along with JSF knowledge). Most companies want >jsf/struts/spring mvc/wicket(primarily JSF). Previously(1-2 yr back) companies like verizon telecom were asking for core tapestry developers in chennai. There seems need for another book that explains tapestry 5 internals(a 1000 page book). The book- "developing web applications with tapestry" doesn't explain tapestry internals as good as the tapestry web site links. -Hari Sujathan http://www.nomarriage.com --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > From: Howard Lewis Ship > Subject: How big is the Tapestry community? > To: "Tapestry users" > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 9:30 PM > Here's a question: how many people > are using Tapestry? And how do you > figure out how many people are using Tapestry? > > When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: > there's > probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I > pulled that > number out of the air. That would be one team for every > five copies of > "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. > There's at > least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I > wonder how T5 > compares to SpringMVC or Grails? > > So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for > determining > the number of Tapestry coders out there? > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > Director of Open Source Technology at Formos > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
I wouldn't judge on the number of open job postings as tapestry 5 is just taking up steam and I guess it takes quite some time until that reflects into job postings. I would rather argue that any team that uses tapestry to build something serious has at least one team member subscribed to the mailinglist. So a repeatedly announced poll might give the best picture. Not very reliable but better then any other number. -Markus On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:54 AM, hari ks wrote: > > From indian job sites- naukri.com/timesjobs.com - one or two companies > want tapestry developers(along with JSF knowledge). Most companies want > jsf/struts/spring mvc/wicket(primarily JSF). > Previously(1-2 yr back) companies like verizon telecom were asking for core > tapestry developers in chennai. > > There seems need for another book that explains tapestry 5 internals(a 1000 > page book). The book- "developing web applications with tapestry" doesn't > explain tapestry internals as good as the tapestry web site links. > > > -Hari Sujathan > http://www.nomarriage.com > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > >> From: Howard Lewis Ship >> Subject: How big is the Tapestry community? >> To: "Tapestry users" >> Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 9:30 PM >> Here's a question: how many people >> are using Tapestry? And how do you >> figure out how many people are using Tapestry? >> >> When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: >> there's >> probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I >> pulled that >> number out of the air. That would be one team for every >> five copies of >> "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. >> There's at >> least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I >> wonder how T5 >> compares to SpringMVC or Grails? >> >> So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for >> determining >> the number of Tapestry coders out there? >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
From indian job sites- naukri.com/timesjobs.com - one or two companies want tapestry developers(along with JSF knowledge). Most companies want jsf/struts/spring mvc/wicket(primarily JSF). Previously(1-2 yr back) companies like verizon telecom were asking for core tapestry developers in chennai. There seems need for another book that explains tapestry 5 internals(a 1000 page book). The book- "developing web applications with tapestry" doesn't explain tapestry internals as good as the tapestry web site links. -Hari Sujathan http://www.nomarriage.com --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > From: Howard Lewis Ship > Subject: How big is the Tapestry community? > To: "Tapestry users" > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 9:30 PM > Here's a question: how many people > are using Tapestry? And how do you > figure out how many people are using Tapestry? > > When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: > there's > probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I > pulled that > number out of the air. That would be one team for every > five copies of > "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. > There's at > least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I > wonder how T5 > compares to SpringMVC or Grails? > > So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for > determining > the number of Tapestry coders out there? > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > Director of Open Source Technology at Formos > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
I think you are on the right track Ivano. If we just had a poll on a Tapestry mailing list or we'd try to size only the number of users of Tapestry using some other method, what would we do with that? We could perhaps ask Matt Raible to put up a new poll - that way we can at least get an idea of how popular is Tapestry among the Java frameworks (presumably heterogeneous set of Java devs are reading his blog). You listening, Matt? Kalle On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Ivano Luberti wrote: > Maybe an answer to this question can be found answering a more general > question: how much is Tapestry used among all the frameworks. > I remeber, a chart reported by Matt Raible (who is (or at least has > been) in this ml) in one of his presentations: the chart showed how many > jobs were offered on LinkedIn in which a java framework knowledge was > required. > > > > > Howard Lewis Ship ha scritto: >> Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you >> figure out how many people are using Tapestry? >> >> When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: there's >> probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I pulled that >> number out of the air. That would be one team for every five copies of >> "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. There's at >> least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I wonder how T5 >> compares to SpringMVC or Grails? >> >> So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for determining >> the number of Tapestry coders out there? >> >> > > -- > == > dott. Ivano Mario Luberti > Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l. > Sede Operativa > Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa > tel.: +39-050- 580959 > tel/fax: +39-050-9711344 > web: www.archicoop.it > == > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Maybe an answer to this question can be found answering a more general question: how much is Tapestry used among all the frameworks. I remeber, a chart reported by Matt Raible (who is (or at least has been) in this ml) in one of his presentations: the chart showed how many jobs were offered on LinkedIn in which a java framework knowledge was required. Howard Lewis Ship ha scritto: > Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you > figure out how many people are using Tapestry? > > When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: there's > probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I pulled that > number out of the air. That would be one team for every five copies of > "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. There's at > least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I wonder how T5 > compares to SpringMVC or Grails? > > So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for determining > the number of Tapestry coders out there? > > -- == dott. Ivano Mario Luberti Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l. Sede Operativa Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa tel.: +39-050- 580959 tel/fax: +39-050-9711344 web: www.archicoop.it == - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
This will only give you the number of people actively following the mailing list (if at all, because most of them won't participate even if they read the mailing list). I think that answering this question will be quite difficult because it's hard to get the intended audience to participate. If you want a real picture of the world out there you'd have to design and carry out a really good study... Uli Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo schrieb: Em Sat, 06 Jun 2009 13:00:34 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship escreveu: Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you figure out how many people are using Tapestry? Maybe we could do something like a Tapestry user survey (census?) in Tapestry360 in some other place and ask people in the mailing list to answer it. What do you think? It will not cover everyone using Tapestry, but I guess most users at least read the mailing list. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Sergey Didenko wrote: > > What about putting the poll to the top of Tapestry official site: > > - I use Tapestry professionally > - I use Tapestry for my hobby projects > - I do not use Tapestry > > and so on? > > A survey sounds good, although IMHO it is unlikely that you'll get many respondents who aren't actually using it. In my experience, most of the people who know/care about Tapestry, is already using it. To test this, i'll start a survey in my own developer forum (about 2000 software developers from Argentina). I haven't seen a single question about it before, so i can notice a lack of awareness of the capabilities of the framework. http://www.pcmasmas.com/viewtopic.php?t=33090 What i believe the Tapestry as a community need to grow is - a book on Tapestry 5.1, showing the power of the framework, not just presenting it. - more marketing, there isn't much discussion about it apart from the mailing list. Taking the example of Spring, three books in a row helped build momentum. Submitting articles to well-known community sites such as TSS and InfoQ help diffusion. My 2 cents, Fernando -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/How-big-is-the-Tapestry-community--tp3035750p3038305.html Sent from the Tapestry Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
What about putting the poll to the top of Tapestry official site: - I use Tapestry professionally - I use Tapestry for my hobby projects - I do not use Tapestry and so on? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Piero Sartini wrote: > > If we could know the number of downloads per version or per each release > > say from 5.0 up to latest release might enable us to guess the number of > > active users. > > I think most people are using Maven2 - and even if we could get the logs > from > ibiblio.org -> I am downloading it on any machine I need to build a > project. I > think we can't guess the number of users from these stats. > Tricky - most organizations with even a few co-located developers using Maven will end up with a repository, and then the true number of Tapestry users will be hidden by the proxying effect of a property. - Geoffrey -- Geoffrey Wiseman http://www.geoffreywiseman.ca/
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
> If we could know the number of downloads per version or per each release > say from 5.0 up to latest release might enable us to guess the number of > active users. I think most people are using Maven2 - and even if we could get the logs from ibiblio.org -> I am downloading it on any machine I need to build a project. I think we can't guess the number of users from these stats. Piero - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Dear All, I am impresed with this topic. I recently decided to pick up a framework for use in development after spending some years with jsp/servlets models. I do not exactly why but I prefer to use Tapestry against others. If we could know the number of downloads per version or per each release say from 5.0 up to latest release might enable us to guess the number of active users. I am using Tapestry 5 - Building Web Applications by Alexander Koleniskov as a guide and t5.1.0.5 and in many places I encounter variances. I think the level of documentation on Tapestry is very poor and this will scare people away - am I missing where/how to access the right documentation? Cheers SPA 2009/6/6 Daniel Jue > Here is my cup 'o coffee estimate... > > For people using it professionally, what is their propensity for being > on this official mailing list? (It's good that there is only one, and > there are not forums dedicated to Tapestry (aside from those that > mirror the mailing list)) > > M = mailing list population, including lurkers > P = propensity coefficient for users being on the mailing list where 0 < P > <=1 > U = number of Tapestry users = M/P > > Or > > T = median size of a team (# developers) > W = median of team members subscribed to the mailing list where 1 <= W <= T > U = number of Tapestry users = MT/W > > (simpson's paradox here? maybe) > > Or > > U = M [sum T*Wt, T=1 to max team size, Wt = propensity for a team > member to be subscribed for team size T, 0 'Team' might be better described as the subset of the team working on > the web tier of an application. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Here is my cup 'o coffee estimate... For people using it professionally, what is their propensity for being on this official mailing list? (It's good that there is only one, and there are not forums dedicated to Tapestry (aside from those that mirror the mailing list)) M = mailing list population, including lurkers P = propensity coefficient for users being on the mailing list where 0 < P <=1 U = number of Tapestry users = M/P Or T = median size of a team (# developers) W = median of team members subscribed to the mailing list where 1 <= W <= T U = number of Tapestry users = MT/W (simpson's paradox here? maybe) Or U = M [sum T*Wt, T=1 to max team size, Wt = propensity for a team member to be subscribed for team size T, 0
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Em Sat, 06 Jun 2009 13:00:34 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship escreveu: Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you figure out how many people are using Tapestry? Maybe we could do something like a Tapestry user survey (census?) in Tapestry360 in some other place and ask people in the mailing list to answer it. What do you think? It will not cover everyone using Tapestry, but I guess most users at least read the mailing list. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
I would make exactly the same analysis. I don't know many people that uses Tapestry... And the book is much too old (even for the 5.0.x). The good thing is that all the people I showed Tapestry to and tried to work with it now prefers it :) Martin Craig St. Jean-4 wrote: > > Well, I've worked at a couple of places and used both Struts and JSF in > the > workplace. I'm the only one that I know that develops using Tapestry (for > personal use), and maybe 1 or 2 people had heard of it (prior to me > telling > them about it). So my guess? Probably a low single digit percentage when > looking at all JEE shops. > > And, now that you mention Tapestry in Action, it would be great to get a > new > book out there! I realize that documentation like that is expensive, so > maybe Formos or yourself starts a place for donations? The WIKI is so-so, > and the component references are decent, but it would be really nice to > have > something that actually shows the power of Tapestry, along with best > practices, in 1 place such as a book. > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Howard Lewis Ship > wrote: > >> Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you >> figure out how many people are using Tapestry? >> >> When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: there's >> probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I pulled that >> number out of the air. That would be one team for every five copies of >> "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. There's at >> least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I wonder how T5 >> compares to SpringMVC or Grails? >> >> So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for determining >> the number of Tapestry coders out there? >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos >> >> ----------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-big-is-the-Tapestry-community--tp23903257p23904406.html Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: How big is the Tapestry community?
Well, I've worked at a couple of places and used both Struts and JSF in the workplace. I'm the only one that I know that develops using Tapestry (for personal use), and maybe 1 or 2 people had heard of it (prior to me telling them about it). So my guess? Probably a low single digit percentage when looking at all JEE shops. And, now that you mention Tapestry in Action, it would be great to get a new book out there! I realize that documentation like that is expensive, so maybe Formos or yourself starts a place for donations? The WIKI is so-so, and the component references are decent, but it would be really nice to have something that actually shows the power of Tapestry, along with best practices, in 1 place such as a book. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you > figure out how many people are using Tapestry? > > When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: there's > probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I pulled that > number out of the air. That would be one team for every five copies of > "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. There's at > least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I wonder how T5 > compares to SpringMVC or Grails? > > So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for determining > the number of Tapestry coders out there? > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > Director of Open Source Technology at Formos > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >
How big is the Tapestry community?
Here's a question: how many people are using Tapestry? And how do you figure out how many people are using Tapestry? When asked, I answer what I think is an honest answer: there's probably 1000 - 2000 teams using Tapestry ... but mostly I pulled that number out of the air. That would be one team for every five copies of "Tapestry in Action" sold, but that's now an old book. There's at least an order of magnitude from Tapestry to Struts. I wonder how T5 compares to SpringMVC or Grails? So, what would be YOUR estimate and YOUR methodology for determining the number of Tapestry coders out there? -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry Director of Open Source Technology at Formos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
