Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
"Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Hi Bill almost missed your reply... > I'm subscribed to so many mailing lists, my incoming mail is starting to > look like a flash animation... > > Briefly, yes... I am looking at it > or more accurately I'm struggling with a cool exciting concept > > Goes something like this auto JK config maybe a "toy" as you say, but > besides JMX, it was one of the few things that presented a partial model > of TC to another system that concept I find very appealing. > I'm thinking... ok, well JMX (via the internal mbeans registering > themselves), represents the live model of Tomcat. > and JMX has effectively demoted XML configuration to something that > now really just represents the persisted static model of TC. > This isn't how Tomcat-Standalone works, but it easily could be. I haven't looked at the JBoss code, but I understand that they use JMX to embed Tomcat from the persisted static setup. > So if one wants to make helper tools... those tools need to be interfaced > with and aware of both the live and static models of TC. > As a simple auto JK tool, its, as you say, a toy but now add JK load > balancing to it, and mod_proxy with the ability to perhaps even configure > HTTPd, then someone will go, gee thats cool, lets make it easy to > configure Configuring httpd is something that has been talked about for mod_jk3 (currently just being discussed, slowly on [EMAIL PROTECTED]). You can read about it at http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/connectors/trunk/jk3/ROADMAP, and of course you can offer any suggestions (aka patches) on [EMAIL PROTECTED] or BZ just like any other Tomcat document. > SSO, and the realm, and hey lets add JNDI to that and then people are > going to scream for a JMX interface to this easy configurator > There is the JMXProxy in /manager, JConsole, etc. > .thats how I'm thinkingbut it raising all sorts of issues in my > mind > Like maybe the whole concept of core beans registering themselves with JMX > is wrong or maybe there has to be JMX for the expert TC developer and > a JMX for the admin dude. The more-or-less abandoned /admin webapp was meant to be a JMX interface for the admin dude. Unfortunately, it lost it's developers to GlassFish, and now is still too tied to the TC 4.1.x (where it originated) way of doing things to be of much use in TC 6.x. IMHO, it would probably need a re-write to be accepted for TC 6.x. > For example (I havnt tried it), but what happens to TC if you change the > connected port, or reset a Realm through JMX... its live, so just how > badly Well, for the connected port, you would have to stop and start the Connector for it to take effect (possible via JMX). I haven't looked recently at what the Realms expose, but mostly I would think that they would take effect immediately (i.e. on the next Request). > would that screw up TC or will TC raise an exception and just ignore > you just how smart are the core beans? > Now JMX through the "easy configurator" or "TC modeler" would be > something different, if you change the JK load sharing, it would say > "configuration illegal", or "new configuration will become active on a TC > restart do you want to restart when user activity has ceased". > It would become the model of TC that people see it would become a > "modeler" and it would become a safe layer between the live TC and > what people are trying to make it do? Again, the starting point would be to look at the /admin webapp, which tries to do just that. Like auto-configure, it is a popular option with users that currently doesn't have much love in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] community :). > > Thats how confused I've managed to make myself I need to do more > homework on the idea... I'd like to try turn something that programmers > are now finding boring, into something very exciting hopefully ;) > > > - Original Message - > From: "Bill Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:26 AM > Subject: Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 > > >> That would actually be a very valuable contribution. One idea that I >> looked at awhile back is a class that does minimal parsing of server.xml >> to embed Tomcat (via JMX, it's s much easier), insert the Listener, >> and then start the contexts to get the file, and then stop. > >> Well, the way that I found out is people on this list compaining that >> their auto-conf files generate warnings on httpd 2.2.x :). Personally, I >&g
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
Hi Bill almost missed your reply... I'm subscribed to so many mailing lists, my incoming mail is starting to look like a flash animation... Briefly, yes... I am looking at it or more accurately I'm struggling with a cool exciting concept Goes something like this auto JK config maybe a "toy" as you say, but besides JMX, it was one of the few things that presented a partial model of TC to another system that concept I find very appealing. I'm thinking... ok, well JMX (via the internal mbeans registering themselves), represents the live model of Tomcat. and JMX has effectively demoted XML configuration to something that now really just represents the persisted static model of TC. So if one wants to make helper tools... those tools need to be interfaced with and aware of both the live and static models of TC. As a simple auto JK tool, its, as you say, a toy but now add JK load balancing to it, and mod_proxy with the ability to perhaps even configure HTTPd, then someone will go, gee thats cool, lets make it easy to configure SSO, and the realm, and hey lets add JNDI to that and then people are going to scream for a JMX interface to this easy configurator .thats how I'm thinkingbut it raising all sorts of issues in my mind Like maybe the whole concept of core beans registering themselves with JMX is wrong or maybe there has to be JMX for the expert TC developer and a JMX for the admin dude. For example (I havnt tried it), but what happens to TC if you change the connected port, or reset a Realm through JMX... its live, so just how badly would that screw up TC or will TC raise an exception and just ignore you just how smart are the core beans? Now JMX through the "easy configurator" or "TC modeler" would be something different, if you change the JK load sharing, it would say "configuration illegal", or "new configuration will become active on a TC restart do you want to restart when user activity has ceased". It would become the model of TC that people see it would become a "modeler" and it would become a safe layer between the live TC and what people are trying to make it do? Thats how confused I've managed to make myself I need to do more homework on the idea... I'd like to try turn something that programmers are now finding boring, into something very exciting hopefully ;) - Original Message - From: "Bill Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:26 AM Subject: Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 That would actually be a very valuable contribution. One idea that I looked at awhile back is a class that does minimal parsing of server.xml to embed Tomcat (via JMX, it's s much easier), insert the Listener, and then start the contexts to get the file, and then stop. Well, the way that I found out is people on this list compaining that their auto-conf files generate warnings on httpd 2.2.x :). Personally, I lurk on [EMAIL PROTECTED], but this isn't for everyone. Of course, to find out more, you just go to http://httpd.apache.org and check the documentation and/or changelog. To add a new attribute to the ApacheConfig class (from server.xml), all you have to do is declare the public getter/setter methods in standard JavaBean style. Most standard type conversions are supported by Digester (e.g. adding setApache22(boolean) would allow apache22="true" is server.xml). I look forward to reviewing your patch. - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
"Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Bill, let me just say that your little auto module helped me tremendously > when I first looked at JK, for a newbie, having that stuff generated > becomes a great tutorial in itself, so its a damn shame it will probably > fall away. I had a look at the code, and I see there are other > maintainers, have they also moved on? > It's not mine by a long shot :). I just did the port from TC 3.3.x to TC 4 (they have very different designs). Pretty much all of the other @auther tags are copied from it's TC 3.3.x days. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be happy to review and commit patches to it. Just that I currently don't have much of an itch to write the patches myself. > Its a great tool. > > I see BaseJkConfig is the base class, and some functions are overridden in > Apache Config, IIS Config, and NS Config I have zero interest in IIS > and NS, but Apache -> TC is pure magic... > It is a cute little toy, but it hasn't kept up with the changes to mod_jk (not to mention that it doesn't support mod_proxy_ajp at all). However, the last meaningful change to it was in 2004. > The other thing is I see you have used a LifecycleListener to kick off the > whole auto config thing. I cant argue with the philosophy, assuming a > person remembers that they must restart TC, but I'm thinking why buck the > trend, take the tool out of TC completely, and have it as a pure addon, > I'm thinking a configuration servlet that one can use to generate this > stuff, and maybe more. > That would actually be a very valuable contribution. One idea that I looked at awhile back is a class that does minimal parsing of server.xml to embed Tomcat (via JMX, it's s much easier), insert the Listener, and then start the contexts to get the file, and then stop. > I'm also wondering how you keep up to date with the protocols, and > formats, for example just where do you look to find out the httpd 2.2.x is > different. > If you show me how to plug in to this dev system and assuming thats not a > mission in itself, then I dont think it will be too much of a problem to > plug in to the code. > I'm thinking, if thats OK, well I dont mind doing it > Well, the way that I found out is people on this list compaining that their auto-conf files generate warnings on httpd 2.2.x :). Personally, I lurk on [EMAIL PROTECTED], but this isn't for everyone. Of course, to find out more, you just go to http://httpd.apache.org and check the documentation and/or changelog. To add a new attribute to the ApacheConfig class (from server.xml), all you have to do is declare the public getter/setter methods in standard JavaBean style. Most standard type conversions are supported by Digester (e.g. adding setApache22(boolean) would allow apache22="true" is server.xml). I look forward to reviewing your patch. > > - Original Message - > From: "Bill Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:12 AM > Subject: Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 > > >> >> "Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Frank, I see the classes are there in 6.0, but the document does mention >>> its for 5.x only. >>> Unfortunately I dont have TC6 setup for this. >>> >>> Could someone, please confirm, this (mod_jk.conf-auto) is still a >>> feature in TC6 >>> Thx >> >> It really doesn't have a maintainer at the moment, so like the admin >> webapp it will probably go away at some point. It should still work with >> TC6, except that for httpd 2.2.x the output is wrong. I used to be the >> primary maintainer for it, but for my day-job I use mod_proxy_ajp with >> 2.2.x (which is also unsupported by ApacheConfig), so I don't really have >> an itch to update this module. And it works well enough for httpd 1.3.x >> & 2.0.x. >> >> Which is really saying is that this module is low-hanging-fruit for >> anybody that wants to contribute to Tomcat development :). >> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Frank McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "Tomcat Users List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:00 PM >>> Subject: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 >>> >>> >>>> I'm trying to get auto-configure to work for my single Tomcat process >>>> running on the same machine as Apache. According to the instructions >>>> at >>>> >>>&
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
Bill, let me just say that your little auto module helped me tremendously when I first looked at JK, for a newbie, having that stuff generated becomes a great tutorial in itself, so its a damn shame it will probably fall away. I had a look at the code, and I see there are other maintainers, have they also moved on? Its a great tool. I see BaseJkConfig is the base class, and some functions are overridden in Apache Config, IIS Config, and NS Config I have zero interest in IIS and NS, but Apache -> TC is pure magic... The other thing is I see you have used a LifecycleListener to kick off the whole auto config thing. I cant argue with the philosophy, assuming a person remembers that they must restart TC, but I'm thinking why buck the trend, take the tool out of TC completely, and have it as a pure addon, I'm thinking a configuration servlet that one can use to generate this stuff, and maybe more. I'm also wondering how you keep up to date with the protocols, and formats, for example just where do you look to find out the httpd 2.2.x is different. If you show me how to plug in to this dev system and assuming thats not a mission in itself, then I dont think it will be too much of a problem to plug in to the code. I'm thinking, if thats OK, well I dont mind doing it - Original Message - From: "Bill Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 "Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Frank, I see the classes are there in 6.0, but the document does mention its for 5.x only. Unfortunately I dont have TC6 setup for this. Could someone, please confirm, this (mod_jk.conf-auto) is still a feature in TC6 Thx It really doesn't have a maintainer at the moment, so like the admin webapp it will probably go away at some point. It should still work with TC6, except that for httpd 2.2.x the output is wrong. I used to be the primary maintainer for it, but for my day-job I use mod_proxy_ajp with 2.2.x (which is also unsupported by ApacheConfig), so I don't really have an itch to update this module. And it works well enough for httpd 1.3.x & 2.0.x. Which is really saying is that this module is low-hanging-fruit for anybody that wants to contribute to Tomcat development :). - Original Message - From: "Frank McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 I'm trying to get auto-configure to work for my single Tomcat process running on the same machine as Apache. According to the instructions at http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/webserver_howto/apache.html the mod_jk.conf-auto file can only be created with Tomcat 5.x. Does that mean the functionality was deprecated in Tomcat 6.0, or have the instructions not been updated? I've followed the directions explicitly, but Tomcat 6.0 does not seem to produce a mod_jk.conf-auto when re-started. The catalina.out does not record any errors. Apache 2.2.4 Tomcat 6.0.12 Java 1.4.2 Linux FC 6 Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank -- Frank McCown Old Dominion University http://www.cs.odu.edu/~fmccown/ - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
Interesting Analysis Bill BTW: the catalina.bat is almost non-functional which I think could be replaced by typing java %JAVA_OPTS% -jar bootstrap.jar..sorry separate thread.. What do you gain by implementing mod_proxy_ajp over mod_jk.conf-auto? Many Thanks Martin This email message and any files transmitted with it contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom this email message is addressed. If you have received this email message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or email and destroy the original message without making a copy. Thank you. - Original Message - From: "Bill Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 "Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Frank, I see the classes are there in 6.0, but the document does mention its for 5.x only. Unfortunately I dont have TC6 setup for this. Could someone, please confirm, this (mod_jk.conf-auto) is still a feature in TC6 Thx It really doesn't have a maintainer at the moment, so like the admin webapp it will probably go away at some point. It should still work with TC6, except that for httpd 2.2.x the output is wrong. I used to be the primary maintainer for it, but for my day-job I use mod_proxy_ajp with 2.2.x (which is also unsupported by ApacheConfig), so I don't really have an itch to update this module. And it works well enough for httpd 1.3.x & 2.0.x. Which is really saying is that this module is low-hanging-fruit for anybody that wants to contribute to Tomcat development :). - Original Message - From: "Frank McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 I'm trying to get auto-configure to work for my single Tomcat process running on the same machine as Apache. According to the instructions at http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/webserver_howto/apache.html the mod_jk.conf-auto file can only be created with Tomcat 5.x. Does that mean the functionality was deprecated in Tomcat 6.0, or have the instructions not been updated? I've followed the directions explicitly, but Tomcat 6.0 does not seem to produce a mod_jk.conf-auto when re-started. The catalina.out does not record any errors. Apache 2.2.4 Tomcat 6.0.12 Java 1.4.2 Linux FC 6 Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank -- Frank McCown Old Dominion University http://www.cs.odu.edu/~fmccown/ - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
"Johnny Kewl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Frank, I see the classes are there in 6.0, but the document does mention > its for 5.x only. > Unfortunately I dont have TC6 setup for this. > > Could someone, please confirm, this (mod_jk.conf-auto) is still a feature > in TC6 > Thx It really doesn't have a maintainer at the moment, so like the admin webapp it will probably go away at some point. It should still work with TC6, except that for httpd 2.2.x the output is wrong. I used to be the primary maintainer for it, but for my day-job I use mod_proxy_ajp with 2.2.x (which is also unsupported by ApacheConfig), so I don't really have an itch to update this module. And it works well enough for httpd 1.3.x & 2.0.x. Which is really saying is that this module is low-hanging-fruit for anybody that wants to contribute to Tomcat development :). > > - Original Message - > From: "Frank McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tomcat Users List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:00 PM > Subject: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 > > >> I'm trying to get auto-configure to work for my single Tomcat process >> running on the same machine as Apache. According to the instructions at >> >> http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/webserver_howto/apache.html >> >> the mod_jk.conf-auto file can only be created with Tomcat 5.x. Does >> that mean the functionality was deprecated in Tomcat 6.0, or have the >> instructions not been updated? >> >> I've followed the directions explicitly, but Tomcat 6.0 does not seem to >> produce a mod_jk.conf-auto when re-started. The catalina.out does not >> record any errors. >> >> Apache 2.2.4 >> Tomcat 6.0.12 >> Java 1.4.2 >> Linux FC 6 >> >> Any help would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Frank >> >> -- >> Frank McCown >> Old Dominion University >> http://www.cs.odu.edu/~fmccown/ >> >> - >> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0
Frank, I see the classes are there in 6.0, but the document does mention its for 5.x only. Unfortunately I dont have TC6 setup for this. Could someone, please confirm, this (mod_jk.conf-auto) is still a feature in TC6 Thx - Original Message - From: "Frank McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Using auto-configure with Tomcat 6.0 I'm trying to get auto-configure to work for my single Tomcat process running on the same machine as Apache. According to the instructions at http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/webserver_howto/apache.html the mod_jk.conf-auto file can only be created with Tomcat 5.x. Does that mean the functionality was deprecated in Tomcat 6.0, or have the instructions not been updated? I've followed the directions explicitly, but Tomcat 6.0 does not seem to produce a mod_jk.conf-auto when re-started. The catalina.out does not record any errors. Apache 2.2.4 Tomcat 6.0.12 Java 1.4.2 Linux FC 6 Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank -- Frank McCown Old Dominion University http://www.cs.odu.edu/~fmccown/ - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]