Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-18 Thread David Smith
In my experience, Internet Explorer starts a new process (and has a 
separate set of in-memory cookies) if you start it from the Start menu 
or the desktop icon.  If you use Ctrl-N from inside the browser or File 
 New  Window from IE's menu bar, it's opened in the same process and 
uses the same set of cookies as the browser you launched it from.  At 
least that was true of IE 6 -- I don't know if it's still true for IE 
7.  Firefox uses one process and all cookies are shared no matter how a 
new window is launched.


--David

Leon Rosenberg wrote:

Thats probably because it has nothing to do with tomcat or
sessionmanagement, but has something to do with cookies and browser
processes.
AFAIK the only browser which allow theirself to be started in multiple
processes are internet explorer and lynx. And internet explorer only
if you activated a special option (start new window in separate
process was the name in the good old days). The effect of the one
process behaviour is:
one process - one cookie - one session.

So what can you do? Basically two things
1) switch off your cookies and let tomcat url rewrite your links.
This is generally a very bad idea, since your users won't be switching
the cookies (unless some stupid admin forces them too, but i
think/hope those specimen became extinct now) and you are
developing/testing not the same thing your users will use.
Also keep in mind that most crawlers can't handle sessionids in urls properly.

2) Use two different browsers.
Now with i think at least 5 classy browsers on the market it should be
easy to find two or three to use simultaneously. On the plus side it
will help you to keep the browser interoperability:

here some browsers to use:
Firefox 2
Firefox 3
Internet Explorer 7
Opera
Flock
Netscape Navigator 9 (Firefox 2.0.0.10 under the hood)
Safari
Mozilla
Camino
Konqueror

Not all are available on all platforms, but most are.

regards
Leon





On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 12:56 AM, André Warnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Hi guys,
shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, but
maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it is
happening ?
Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I don't
feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.
Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to session
management.






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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-18 Thread Jim Cox
FWIW, you can create distinct profiles with mozilla/firefox:
  firefox -ProfileManager

And then start distinct processes with:
  firefox -P profile name


On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 8:19 AM, David Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In my experience, Internet Explorer starts a new process (and has a
 separate set of in-memory cookies) if you start it from the Start menu or
 the desktop icon.  If you use Ctrl-N from inside the browser or File  New 
 Window from IE's menu bar, it's opened in the same process and uses the same
 set of cookies as the browser you launched it from.  At least that was true
 of IE 6 -- I don't know if it's still true for IE 7.  Firefox uses one
 process and all cookies are shared no matter how a new window is launched.

 --David



Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-18 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Rusty,

Rusty Wright wrote:
 Sorry, I thought I did.  It has nothing to do with tomcat; it's up to
 the browser whether or not it assigns different sessions to the tabs or
 not.

Replace sessions with cookies and the above statement is true. HTTP
is session-less, so clients do not keep any state information. Cookies
are a brilliantly hacky way of getting the server to maintain user state
over a state-less protocol.

- -chris

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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-18 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Martin,

Martin Gainty wrote:
 if you want to take it a step further determine if the client is
 using an old browser route them to latest
 
 script language=JavaScript
 !--
 function onLoad()
 if(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)7);
 document.window.open(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/ie/getitnow.mspx;);
 // --
 /script

I think you mean http://www.mozilla.com/products/firefox ;)

- -chris
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkipiJcACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PCsQQCgtLPZ5GlbXxGZZZ4XEv4EM3rO
xXsAoI7QmJsi+aJU47n7E3VvGS/mla2d
=wxFn
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RE: [BULK] Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-18 Thread Patrick Markiewicz
Hi,
A session boils down to a cookie sent between the browser and the 
server.  So the only way you could create 2 sessions is if the IE browser would 
keep cookies independent on each tab.  I don't know of any browser that 
associates cookies with anything but the site.  I.e. when you login on tab 2, 
your browser sends the existing cookie that is associated with the tomcat site, 
and it auto logs in to A's profile.
You could think about changing mozilla's source code to create a 
browser that allows it, but how would you change the profile for each tab?  
Would tab 3 remember that you logged into google mail already?  Or would you 
have to log in again? 

Patrick

-Original Message-
From: murthy gandikota [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:15 PM
To: users@tomcat.apache.org
Subject: [BULK] Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing
Importance: Low

Hello All
While using tabbed browsers (e.g. IE 7) I am facing a login problem. Say on 
Tab#1 I login with a username A, on Tab#2 I login with username B, I still see 
A's session. Apparently the browser/Tomcat doesn't create a new session. Has 
anyone faced this problem? Are there any fixes?
Thanks
Murthy


  

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Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread murthy gandikota
Hello All
While using tabbed browsers (e.g. IE 7) I am facing a login problem. Say on 
Tab#1 I login with a username A, on Tab#2 I login with username B, I still see 
A's session. Apparently the browser/Tomcat doesn't create a new session. Has 
anyone faced this problem? Are there any fixes?
Thanks
Murthy


  

Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Robert Dietrick
This is normal behavior. Sessions are tied to cookies bound to an
entire domain.  Why would you want the same person logged in twice
with different accounts?

On 8/15/08, murthy gandikota [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello All
 While using tabbed browsers (e.g. IE 7) I am facing a login problem. Say on
 Tab#1 I login with a username A, on Tab#2 I login with username B, I still
 see A's session. Apparently the browser/Tomcat doesn't create a new session.
 Has anyone faced this problem? Are there any fixes?
 Thanks
 Murthy




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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Rusty Wright
Sessions are tied to the whole browser, not tabs within the browser. In 
other words, it's a browser issue, not a tomcat issue.


murthy gandikota wrote:

Hello All
While using tabbed browsers (e.g. IE 7) I am facing a login problem. Say on 
Tab#1 I login with a username A, on Tab#2 I login with username B, I still see 
A's session. Apparently the browser/Tomcat doesn't create a new session. Has 
anyone faced this problem? Are there any fixes?
Thanks
Murthy


  
  


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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Bill Davidson

Robert Dietrick wrote:

Why would you want the same person logged in twice
with different accounts?
  


As a developer of a web app that has both admin and regular user roles,
I want to do this all the time.  The admin roles can change things in ways
that affect the regular user's view.  I want to see how things change
without having to log out and log back in as a different user.

The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.



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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Bill,

Bill Davidson wrote:
 Robert Dietrick wrote:
 Why would you want the same person logged in twice
 with different accounts?
 
 As a developer of a web app that has both admin and regular user roles,
 I want to do this all the time.  The admin roles can change things in ways
 that affect the regular user's view.  I want to see how things change
 without having to log out and log back in as a different user.
 
 The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.

You could use separate tabs in the same browser if you were to disable
cookies on your browser (and you have correctly encoded your outgoing URLs).

- -chris
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fZMAoLcD1AgKgVTHnXJBqyW0n1UCKlUZ
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RE: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Nathan E. Pilling
I've found that if I set the maxAge of the cookie to -1 (which means the cookie 
should only exist until the browser exits) that on Internet Explorer each 
window I open the session is different. Each tab shares the session.

In Firefox, the session is shared by all tabs and windows.


-Original Message-
From:   Bill Davidson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Fri 8/15/2008 2:14 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Cc: 
Subject:Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

Robert Dietrick wrote:
 Why would you want the same person logged in twice
 with different accounts?
   

As a developer of a web app that has both admin and regular user roles,
I want to do this all the time.  The admin roles can change things in ways
that affect the regular user's view.  I want to see how things change
without having to log out and log back in as a different user.

The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.



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RE: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Martin Gainty


I would suggest assigning each logged-in user the capabilities of nindividual 
roles which have a specified capability
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-4.0-doc/manager-howto.html
start with xml basic MemoryRealm and work your way into JDBCRealm or JNDIRealm

Martin 
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Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relates to the official business 
of Sender. This transmission is of a confidential nature and Sender does not 
endorse distribution to any party other than intended recipient. Sender does 
not necessarily endorse content contained within this transmission. 


 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:21:38 -0400
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: users@tomcat.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Bill,
 
 Bill Davidson wrote:
  Robert Dietrick wrote:
  Why would you want the same person logged in twice
  with different accounts?
  
  As a developer of a web app that has both admin and regular user roles,
  I want to do this all the time.  The admin roles can change things in ways
  that affect the regular user's view.  I want to see how things change
  without having to log out and log back in as a different user.
  
  The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.
 
 You could use separate tabs in the same browser if you were to disable
 cookies on your browser (and you have correctly encoded your outgoing URLs).
 
 - -chris
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 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAkil5VIACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PDRxQCgurXC0dPS00+MzAoJAhCVSfo+
 fZMAoLcD1AgKgVTHnXJBqyW0n1UCKlUZ
 =Ul1U
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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread David Rees
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Christopher Schultz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Bill Davidson wrote:
 The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.

 You could use separate tabs in the same browser if you were to disable
 cookies on your browser (and you have correctly encoded your outgoing URLs).

Yep, this is probably the best way to do it. Just keep in mind that if
you copy links it will have your session id in them.

-Dave

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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Bill Davidson

Christopher Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You could use separate tabs in the same browser if you were to disable
cookies on your browser (and you have correctly encoded your outgoing 
URLs).


David Rees wrote:
Yep, this is probably the best way to do it. Just keep in mind that if
you copy links it will have your session id in them.

I think it's easier to just use two browsers.  I have to make sure
everything works in IE and Firefox anyway so it's just as well that
I'm using both on a fairly regular basis.



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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread André Warnier

murthy gandikota wrote:

Hello All
While using tabbed browsers (e.g. IE 7) I am facing a login problem. Say on 
Tab#1 I login with a username A, on Tab#2 I login with username B, I still see 
A's session. Apparently the browser/Tomcat doesn't create a new session. Has 
anyone faced this problem? Are there any fixes?
Thanks
Murthy

That's probably because there is only one JSESSIONID cookie stored by 
the browser, no matter how many tabs are open, no ?




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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread André Warnier

Robert Dietrick wrote:

This is normal behavior. Sessions are tied to cookies bound to an
entire domain.  Why would you want the same person logged in twice
with different accounts?

I don't know what the real issue of the OP is, but there are plenty of 
situations where you would want to have 2 or more distinct sessions onto 
a same service, even with the same user-id.
For instance, you are browsing two different areas of a database, and 
you would need each session to keep a distinct context, and not mix up 
what happens in one with the other.


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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread André Warnier

Hi guys,
shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, 
but maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it is 
happening ?
Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I 
don't feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.

Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to 
session management.



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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Rusty Wright
Sorry, I thought I did.  It has nothing to do with tomcat; it's up to 
the browser whether or not it assigns different sessions to the tabs or 
not.  Apparently IE, or some versions of IE, do.  In my experience 
Firefox doesn't.  I think if you have multiple Firefoxes opened, i.e., 
separate windows, not just separate tabs, they still share the session.



André Warnier wrote:

Hi guys,
shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, 
but maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it 
is happening ?
Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I 
don't feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.

Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to 
session management.



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For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Leon Rosenberg
Thats probably because it has nothing to do with tomcat or
sessionmanagement, but has something to do with cookies and browser
processes.
AFAIK the only browser which allow theirself to be started in multiple
processes are internet explorer and lynx. And internet explorer only
if you activated a special option (start new window in separate
process was the name in the good old days). The effect of the one
process behaviour is:
one process - one cookie - one session.

So what can you do? Basically two things
1) switch off your cookies and let tomcat url rewrite your links.
This is generally a very bad idea, since your users won't be switching
the cookies (unless some stupid admin forces them too, but i
think/hope those specimen became extinct now) and you are
developing/testing not the same thing your users will use.
Also keep in mind that most crawlers can't handle sessionids in urls properly.

2) Use two different browsers.
Now with i think at least 5 classy browsers on the market it should be
easy to find two or three to use simultaneously. On the plus side it
will help you to keep the browser interoperability:

here some browsers to use:
Firefox 2
Firefox 3
Internet Explorer 7
Opera
Flock
Netscape Navigator 9 (Firefox 2.0.0.10 under the hood)
Safari
Mozilla
Camino
Konqueror

Not all are available on all platforms, but most are.

regards
Leon





On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 12:56 AM, André Warnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi guys,
 shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
 I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, but
 maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it is
 happening ?
 Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I don't
 feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.
 Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
 I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
 http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
 and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to session
 management.


 -
 To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Johnny Kewl


- Original Message - 
From: André Warnier [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Tomcat Users List users@tomcat.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing



Hi guys,
shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, but 
maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it is 
happening ?
Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I 
don't feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.

Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to session 
management.


Browsers are stateless, so they have no memory, they cant remember 
anything...
So if you playing a game and you click refresh the browser will start 
again... it would forget the score in a game, they stupid ;)


So servers give a browser a cookie... just some unique number, like 
123456789
Then everytime the browser talks to the server it sends that back... then 
the server stores state against that number...

So it stores say game score in a map addressed by 123456789...
So now the server knows and can remember stuff... but note that its the 
server remembering, the browser just has this number...


They call this the session... and they hooked up in the browser by the 
domain name... so if that is the same... the number is the same... the stuff 
the server looks up is the same... so it does not change between tabs...


When security happens... it also uses the cookie... to remember that the 
user has logged on... so the same process is at work.


Change domain names, use 2 browsers... or turn off cookies... so you can see 
now why the other guys said all those things...


In old browsers... those invented just after the steam engine, they couldnt 
do cookies, so the memory was done via urls...

If you look at how your google works... they still use that... eg:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=Sessions+in+TomcatbtnG=Google+Searchmeta=

So thats another way to remember state... but it can get quite hectic to 
code compared to the nice easy TC session stuff.


Also can you see why cookies/sessions have to be set when you send that page 
to a browser, and not when you just want the answer
Its sending that unique number in TC if you look at the headers coming 
in you will see JSessionID = huge number... thats the thing..


More or less ;)

Interesting hey clever people these TC dudes ;)
I hang out in many mailing lists... this is the best one ;)

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RE: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Martin Gainty

if you want to take it a step further determine if the client is using an old 
browser route them to latest

script language=JavaScript
!--
function onLoad()
if(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)7);
document.window.open(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/ie/getitnow.mspx;);
// --
/script

?
Martin Gainty 

__ 
Disclaimer and confidentiality note 
Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relates to the official business 
of Sender. This transmission is of a confidential nature and Sender does not 
endorse distribution to any party other than intended recipient. Sender does 
not necessarily endorse content contained within this transmission. 


 Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:29:56 +0200
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: users@tomcat.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing
 
 Thats probably because it has nothing to do with tomcat or
 sessionmanagement, but has something to do with cookies and browser
 processes.
 AFAIK the only browser which allow theirself to be started in multiple
 processes are internet explorer and lynx. And internet explorer only
 if you activated a special option (start new window in separate
 process was the name in the good old days). The effect of the one
 process behaviour is:
 one process - one cookie - one session.
 
 So what can you do? Basically two things
 1) switch off your cookies and let tomcat url rewrite your links.
 This is generally a very bad idea, since your users won't be switching
 the cookies (unless some stupid admin forces them too, but i
 think/hope those specimen became extinct now) and you are
 developing/testing not the same thing your users will use.
 Also keep in mind that most crawlers can't handle sessionids in urls properly.
 
 2) Use two different browsers.
 Now with i think at least 5 classy browsers on the market it should be
 easy to find two or three to use simultaneously. On the plus side it
 will help you to keep the browser interoperability:
 
 here some browsers to use:
 Firefox 2
 Firefox 3
 Internet Explorer 7
 Opera
 Flock
 Netscape Navigator 9 (Firefox 2.0.0.10 under the hood)
 Safari
 Mozilla
 Camino
 Konqueror
 
 Not all are available on all platforms, but most are.
 
 regards
 Leon
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 12:56 AM, André Warnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi guys,
  shouldn't someone *explain* to the OP why this is happening ?
  I mean, the different bits and pieces are there in different answers, but
  maybe the big picture is missing to understand what and why it is
  happening ?
  Not knowing myself the hows and whys of Tomcat's session management, I don't
  feel confident enough to attempt such an explanation on my own.
  Or is it mentioned clearly somewhere in a doc that I missed ?
  I just went through items 1 to 26 of the list in
  http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/index.html
  and, at first sight, I don't see anything that obviously points to session
  management.
 
 
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Re: Using tabbed browsers causes session sharing

2008-08-15 Thread Robert Dietrick
That's an acceptable way to deal with the problem (it's not a tomcat
problem after all but an abnormal use case). Anyone who's built an
administrative web app is accustomed to such shenanigans. If you have
a legitimate need to access different parts of your app while logged
in under one account, then you should implement some notion of roles.

On 8/15/08, Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Robert Dietrick wrote:
 Why would you want the same person logged in twice
 with different accounts?


 As a developer of a web app that has both admin and regular user roles,
 I want to do this all the time.  The admin roles can change things in ways
 that affect the regular user's view.  I want to see how things change
 without having to log out and log back in as a different user.

 The way I deal with it is to use Firefox for one and IE for the other.



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