Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
It's never too late for feedback :) But as I already wrote here on the mailing list, this voting won't be about the VALA text but about the symbol. This text is on the proposals as an example, but it will be dicussed later and there will be a separate voting on it. For now, if you don't like it, ignore it ;) tobias 2011/8/31 Dru Moore d...@dru-id.co.uk Probably far too late in the process to come back and comment on this but I have a few general comments. I really like the concept of wings etc and think of the logo marks, all but #4 are really very strong, to me #4 is the weakest and is only good. However, I really dislike the font used for VALA. I totally get that by reducing the number of strokes required to form the letters you are trying to evoke simplicity and lightness as shared qualities. For me it actually suggests a different, less accurate set of ideas: Only a few basic tools - 4 unique strokes build the entire word Very direct and angular - fast yes, elegant no. These would seem more to be the qualities of a low level language (assembler or c) rather than a modern, high level language. Vala provides lot's of tools and high level objects to it's users that should let us express ourselves in a much more elegant fashion. Appreciate these comments may be coming at the least helpful time and regardless the outcome will clearly be to a very high standard. On 31 August 2011 18:20, Tobias Bernard berto...@gmail.com wrote: I totally agree with you that war isn't a good symbolism for this, it is one of the reasons I deleted that proposal. The reason why I created it in the first place was the sound of Vala: it reminds of Valkyrie or Valhalla (and if you've read the Silmarillion it reminds of the Valar), and ancient weapons are strongly connected to those topics, so I wanted to try working on that. But since there are better symbolisms (which also look better graphically :D), I deleted that proposal. I don't know if you've taken a look at the pdf, but there are several proposals which communicate exactly what you said: lightness, easiness, flying etc. A flying carpet isn't a bad idea but personally, I like a wing better, because it's less complex and easier to understand. in case you've missed it: symbol proposals pdf downloadhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/ kind regards tobias 2011/8/31 Jim Peters j...@uazu.net Sam Liddicott wrote: 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. The presentation is very good. I think that symbols of weapons, killing and/or warfare should be avoided, having very current and unpleasant connotations for many people in specific locales. War happens -- deal with it. But anyway, Vala is not about war, not even about posing with weapons, nor indulging in feelings of superiority or anything like that. Vala is practical and gets the job done. It is not an academic language made by purists or theorists. It doesn't seem to attract zealots or fanatics -- it is relatively humble in that sense. It makes life easier for those who use it -- compared to the alternative tools available to do the same job. Getting a good visual logo can be hard. When I was involved in OpenEEG, someone sent us a drawing of a levitating, meditating, EEG-wired GNU, which was really perfect and said everything: http://openeeg.sf.net/ However, a programming language is more abstract. Linux has a penguin mascot pictured with a bellyful of fish (according to Linus), which I guess represents a feeling of comfort. I wonder whether we can find a feeling connection for Vala? To me it is about flying above all the nightmare complexity of pages of boilerplate code that is required at the C level. So maybe Aladdin's flying carpet? Or something else to represent the ease and feeling of flying above complexity? Any other way we can represent this feeling? Or is there some other feeling we can associate with Vala? Jim -- Jim Peters (_)/=\~/_(_) j...@uazu.net (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) Uazú (_)/=\~/_(_)http:// in Peru(_) /=\ ~/_ (_)uazu.net ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
I totally agree with you that war isn't a good symbolism for this, it is one of the reasons I deleted that proposal. The reason why I created it in the first place was the sound of Vala: it reminds of Valkyrie or Valhalla (and if you've read the Silmarillion it reminds of the Valar), and ancient weapons are strongly connected to those topics, so I wanted to try working on that. But since there are better symbolisms (which also look better graphically :D), I deleted that proposal. I don't know if you've taken a look at the pdf, but there are several proposals which communicate exactly what you said: lightness, easiness, flying etc. A flying carpet isn't a bad idea but personally, I like a wing better, because it's less complex and easier to understand. in case you've missed it: symbol proposals pdf downloadhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/ kind regards tobias 2011/8/31 Jim Peters j...@uazu.net Sam Liddicott wrote: 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. The presentation is very good. I think that symbols of weapons, killing and/or warfare should be avoided, having very current and unpleasant connotations for many people in specific locales. War happens -- deal with it. But anyway, Vala is not about war, not even about posing with weapons, nor indulging in feelings of superiority or anything like that. Vala is practical and gets the job done. It is not an academic language made by purists or theorists. It doesn't seem to attract zealots or fanatics -- it is relatively humble in that sense. It makes life easier for those who use it -- compared to the alternative tools available to do the same job. Getting a good visual logo can be hard. When I was involved in OpenEEG, someone sent us a drawing of a levitating, meditating, EEG-wired GNU, which was really perfect and said everything: http://openeeg.sf.net/ However, a programming language is more abstract. Linux has a penguin mascot pictured with a bellyful of fish (according to Linus), which I guess represents a feeling of comfort. I wonder whether we can find a feeling connection for Vala? To me it is about flying above all the nightmare complexity of pages of boilerplate code that is required at the C level. So maybe Aladdin's flying carpet? Or something else to represent the ease and feeling of flying above complexity? Any other way we can represent this feeling? Or is there some other feeling we can associate with Vala? Jim -- Jim Peters (_)/=\~/_(_) j...@uazu.net (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) Uazú (_)/=\~/_(_)http:// in Peru(_) /=\ ~/_ (_)uazu.net ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
Probably far too late in the process to come back and comment on this but I have a few general comments. I really like the concept of wings etc and think of the logo marks, all but #4 are really very strong, to me #4 is the weakest and is only good. However, I really dislike the font used for VALA. I totally get that by reducing the number of strokes required to form the letters you are trying to evoke simplicity and lightness as shared qualities. For me it actually suggests a different, less accurate set of ideas: Only a few basic tools - 4 unique strokes build the entire word Very direct and angular - fast yes, elegant no. These would seem more to be the qualities of a low level language (assembler or c) rather than a modern, high level language. Vala provides lot's of tools and high level objects to it's users that should let us express ourselves in a much more elegant fashion. Appreciate these comments may be coming at the least helpful time and regardless the outcome will clearly be to a very high standard. On 31 August 2011 18:20, Tobias Bernard berto...@gmail.com wrote: I totally agree with you that war isn't a good symbolism for this, it is one of the reasons I deleted that proposal. The reason why I created it in the first place was the sound of Vala: it reminds of Valkyrie or Valhalla (and if you've read the Silmarillion it reminds of the Valar), and ancient weapons are strongly connected to those topics, so I wanted to try working on that. But since there are better symbolisms (which also look better graphically :D), I deleted that proposal. I don't know if you've taken a look at the pdf, but there are several proposals which communicate exactly what you said: lightness, easiness, flying etc. A flying carpet isn't a bad idea but personally, I like a wing better, because it's less complex and easier to understand. in case you've missed it: symbol proposals pdf downloadhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/ kind regards tobias 2011/8/31 Jim Peters j...@uazu.net Sam Liddicott wrote: 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. The presentation is very good. I think that symbols of weapons, killing and/or warfare should be avoided, having very current and unpleasant connotations for many people in specific locales. War happens -- deal with it. But anyway, Vala is not about war, not even about posing with weapons, nor indulging in feelings of superiority or anything like that. Vala is practical and gets the job done. It is not an academic language made by purists or theorists. It doesn't seem to attract zealots or fanatics -- it is relatively humble in that sense. It makes life easier for those who use it -- compared to the alternative tools available to do the same job. Getting a good visual logo can be hard. When I was involved in OpenEEG, someone sent us a drawing of a levitating, meditating, EEG-wired GNU, which was really perfect and said everything: http://openeeg.sf.net/ However, a programming language is more abstract. Linux has a penguin mascot pictured with a bellyful of fish (according to Linus), which I guess represents a feeling of comfort. I wonder whether we can find a feeling connection for Vala? To me it is about flying above all the nightmare complexity of pages of boilerplate code that is required at the C level. So maybe Aladdin's flying carpet? Or something else to represent the ease and feeling of flying above complexity? Any other way we can represent this feeling? Or is there some other feeling we can associate with Vala? Jim -- Jim Peters (_)/=\~/_(_) j...@uazu.net (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) Uazú (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) http:// in Peru (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) uazu.net ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
On 27/08/11 15:29, Tobias Bernard wrote: 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. The presentation is very good. I think that symbols of weapons, killing and/or warfare should be avoided, having very current and unpleasant connotations for many people in specific locales. Sam ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
Sam Liddicott wrote: 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. The presentation is very good. I think that symbols of weapons, killing and/or warfare should be avoided, having very current and unpleasant connotations for many people in specific locales. War happens -- deal with it. But anyway, Vala is not about war, not even about posing with weapons, nor indulging in feelings of superiority or anything like that. Vala is practical and gets the job done. It is not an academic language made by purists or theorists. It doesn't seem to attract zealots or fanatics -- it is relatively humble in that sense. It makes life easier for those who use it -- compared to the alternative tools available to do the same job. Getting a good visual logo can be hard. When I was involved in OpenEEG, someone sent us a drawing of a levitating, meditating, EEG-wired GNU, which was really perfect and said everything: http://openeeg.sf.net/ However, a programming language is more abstract. Linux has a penguin mascot pictured with a bellyful of fish (according to Linus), which I guess represents a feeling of comfort. I wonder whether we can find a feeling connection for Vala? To me it is about flying above all the nightmare complexity of pages of boilerplate code that is required at the C level. So maybe Aladdin's flying carpet? Or something else to represent the ease and feeling of flying above complexity? Any other way we can represent this feeling? Or is there some other feeling we can associate with Vala? Jim -- Jim Peters (_)/=\~/_(_) j...@uazu.net (_) /=\ ~/_ (_) Uazú (_)/=\~/_(_)http:// in Peru(_) /=\ ~/_ (_)uazu.net ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
[Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
Hi Since there were no further comments on the logo drafts, I thought I'd propose to vote on the logo symbol. here http://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/'s a revised version of the logo symbol part of my proposal document http://ubuntuone.com/p/1AW8/ (alternative download http://tobias.bluestain.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/vala01.pdf ) I don't know how you organize votings here, so I have some questions on that: What is needed to start an official voting? Is there a some kind of a leader who offcially announces votings? Who is allowed to vote and how many people need to vote to take a decision? After thinking a bit more about it, I changed certain poposals, deleted others and added new ones. Of course I tried to always keep your feedback in mind. So here's the changes in detail: 1) Putting the symbol inside a circle for the main logo is a bad idea. In some cases the symbol could be used this way, but as a variant, not as the main one. This is why I deleted all proposals inside a circle. 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. 3) The simplicity of the first proposal (horizontal wing) was liked by many, so I added a similar symbol with a simple vertical wing. 4) Thanks to XY, I used your idea for proposal 04, however I am still not sure if a) The V is readable b) The wing is recognizable I thought I'd let the community decide this by voting ;) I'm looking forward to hear from you, so the votings can begin. Of course, any kind of feedback is welcome and any changes can be made to the current proposals. kind regards tobias ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
I forgot to change the place holder XY to rastersoft, because I wrote the text when I had no internet connection and didn't see it now before sending it . The credidts for idea #4 go to him ;) Sorry. tobias 2011/8/27 Tobias Bernard berto...@gmail.com Hi Since there were no further comments on the logo drafts, I thought I'd propose to vote on the logo symbol. here http://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/'s a revised version of the logo symbol part of my proposal document http://ubuntuone.com/p/1AW8/ (alternative downloadhttp://tobias.bluestain.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/vala01.pdf ) I don't know how you organize votings here, so I have some questions on that: What is needed to start an official voting? Is there a some kind of a leader who offcially announces votings? Who is allowed to vote and how many people need to vote to take a decision? After thinking a bit more about it, I changed certain poposals, deleted others and added new ones. Of course I tried to always keep your feedback in mind. So here's the changes in detail: 1) Putting the symbol inside a circle for the main logo is a bad idea. In some cases the symbol could be used this way, but as a variant, not as the main one. This is why I deleted all proposals inside a circle. 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. 3) The simplicity of the first proposal (horizontal wing) was liked by many, so I added a similar symbol with a simple vertical wing. 4) Thanks to XY, I used your idea for proposal 04, however I am still not sure if a) The V is readable b) The wing is recognizable I thought I'd let the community decide this by voting ;) I'm looking forward to hear from you, so the votings can begin. Of course, any kind of feedback is welcome and any changes can be made to the current proposals. kind regards tobias ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
ok, i'll try that. after choosing a symbol, there should be a voting on the logo text too, so thanks a lot for the proposal. for now: ignore all the text and focus on the symbols ;) tobias 2011/8/27 august aug...@alien.mur.at Hi Tobias, All, I hope you don't mind me making a suggestion here. I find all of the graphics you've made to be very professional. I really like the wing and definitely prefer the 2 tone graphic over glass effects. I was only wondering if it would be possible to see the wings with another text graphic below it. The vala with the sharp edges kind of turns me off. Vala is more of a rounded and soft word with lots of vowels. It rolls off the tongue. The graphic I see in your logos, however, expresses a lot of consonants and pointedness. To me, the current text graphic contradicts the forgiving and welcoming feel of the vala language. To me, vala takes the snagging edges out of programming. It's a more human and organic language, less machine. Would it be possible to round off the points on the text graphic? I'm not sure it would be better, but I think it would be interesting to see. For sure, it will set other things in the logo out of balance, but it just might fit the wings better. best -august. Tobias Bernard say: Hi Since there were no further comments on the logo drafts, I thought I'd propose to vote on the logo symbol. here http://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/'s a revised version of the logo symbol part of my proposal document http://ubuntuone.com/p/1AW8/ (alternative download http://tobias.bluestain.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/vala01.pdf ) I don't know how you organize votings here, so I have some questions on that: What is needed to start an official voting? Is there a some kind of a leader who offcially announces votings? Who is allowed to vote and how many people need to vote to take a decision? After thinking a bit more about it, I changed certain poposals, deleted others and added new ones. Of course I tried to always keep your feedback in mind. So here's the changes in detail: 1) Putting the symbol inside a circle for the main logo is a bad idea. In some cases the symbol could be used this way, but as a variant, not as the main one. This is why I deleted all proposals inside a circle. 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. 3) The simplicity of the first proposal (horizontal wing) was liked by many, so I added a similar symbol with a simple vertical wing. 4) Thanks to XY, I used your idea for proposal 04, however I am still not sure if a) The V is readable b) The wing is recognizable I thought I'd let the community decide this by voting ;) I'm looking forward to hear from you, so the votings can begin. Of course, any kind of feedback is welcome and any changes can be made to the current proposals. kind regards tobias ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list -- --- http://aug.ment.org GPG: 0A8D 2BC7 243D 57D0 469D 9736 C557 458F 003E 6952 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBTlkcQ8VXRY8APmlSAQLf+ggAkr+U8grKOvHAGi1OKXBJYXqZabHUaMik ONHkcJrinfwctMfkv3+ERFrqsPRx0sgOUzCHWLyOxEOjnaFZkW7r84lXnvYiC1gr Jgswbt39lUdMmbCHwszIYHvMLVu4r0soV8zSSARSBxAsgcOTqVY8SQMvcODid9ZL rEFisXsLgRpYswj8/QjD7zKEQGGsu6IbdWg9smaYc+x2l31QIo3o68WQ6xS8UcZW FXM5LPGbf10hlQVC+TF29q+FLqO4DzfEzfqzbyWXPGiT4e3Geebu9pW3Edn6W6Cq rfCyP8/CmOmVC+evON/4T/Y/9NvVokuZCqp5tGqAJfeNMnXFuVtAXA== =nk6C -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Vala logo symbol voting
Hi Tobias, All, I hope you don't mind me making a suggestion here. I find all of the graphics you've made to be very professional. I really like the wing and definitely prefer the 2 tone graphic over glass effects. I was only wondering if it would be possible to see the wings with another text graphic below it. The vala with the sharp edges kind of turns me off. Vala is more of a rounded and soft word with lots of vowels. It rolls off the tongue. The graphic I see in your logos, however, expresses a lot of consonants and pointedness. To me, the current text graphic contradicts the forgiving and welcoming feel of the vala language. To me, vala takes the snagging edges out of programming. It's a more human and organic language, less machine. Would it be possible to round off the points on the text graphic? I'm not sure it would be better, but I think it would be interesting to see. For sure, it will set other things in the logo out of balance, but it just might fit the wings better. best -august. Tobias Bernard say: Hi Since there were no further comments on the logo drafts, I thought I'd propose to vote on the logo symbol. here http://ubuntuone.com/p/1DBL/'s a revised version of the logo symbol part of my proposal document http://ubuntuone.com/p/1AW8/ (alternative download http://tobias.bluestain.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/vala01.pdf ) I don't know how you organize votings here, so I have some questions on that: What is needed to start an official voting? Is there a some kind of a leader who offcially announces votings? Who is allowed to vote and how many people need to vote to take a decision? After thinking a bit more about it, I changed certain poposals, deleted others and added new ones. Of course I tried to always keep your feedback in mind. So here's the changes in detail: 1) Putting the symbol inside a circle for the main logo is a bad idea. In some cases the symbol could be used this way, but as a variant, not as the main one. This is why I deleted all proposals inside a circle. 2) The symbolism of ancient warfare is hard to understand. Probably too hard to be understood instantly by most people, so I put that proposal away too. 3) The simplicity of the first proposal (horizontal wing) was liked by many, so I added a similar symbol with a simple vertical wing. 4) Thanks to XY, I used your idea for proposal 04, however I am still not sure if a) The V is readable b) The wing is recognizable I thought I'd let the community decide this by voting ;) I'm looking forward to hear from you, so the votings can begin. Of course, any kind of feedback is welcome and any changes can be made to the current proposals. kind regards tobias ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list -- --- http://aug.ment.org GPG: 0A8D 2BC7 243D 57D0 469D 9736 C557 458F 003E 6952 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vala-list mailing list vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
