Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
Fernando Cassia wrote: I think that if a huge comet strikes the Earth, we will ALL DIE. Shame, well, I was trying to make a point that GPL code is not immortal in some way. Let's try to be adult, huh? I like vbox and use it as a preferred solution. If it dies, its no big deal though, there are alternatives that aren't expensive. Who's fretting? ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On 3/9/2010 5:26 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: I think that if a huge comet strikes the Earth, we will ALL DIE. oh, a small asteroid or two (a.k.a. flaming rocks from the sky) will be sufficient to distract us from the Oracle-VirtualBox show. no need to kill us off. >splat< ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:14 PM, James Mansion wrote: > Gregory Nowak wrote: >> >> of the gpl version in some way, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see >> the FSF challenge such a turn of events. >> >> > > Since the FSF are not copyright holders, I don't think they'd have any > grounds for doing so. > > I suspect that if Oracle don't sponsor major engineering in vbox, though, it > will > die GPL or not, because its tricky stuff and Linux users have kvm- and > xen-based > solutions I think that if a huge comet strikes the Earth, we will ALL DIE. ;-) FC ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
Gregory Nowak wrote: of the gpl version in some way, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the FSF challenge such a turn of events. Since the FSF are not copyright holders, I don't think they'd have any grounds for doing so. I suspect that if Oracle don't sponsor major engineering in vbox, though, it will die GPL or not, because its tricky stuff and Linux users have kvm- and xen-based solutions, so you'd need devs that Really Care about Windows, Solaris and FreeBSD. Having access to the source is somethimes no more than an invitation to waste a huge amount of time. :-( ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Alexey Eremenko wrote: I agree with you Alexey. Lew said: > There's an excellent chance that if Oracle spits out VirtualBox it > > will dry up and blow away. > > There´s also a statistical chance of a big meteor hitting the Earth, or a major earthuqake like the one which recently hit Chile striking Silicon Valley and reducing Oracle and many California based tech firms to rubble. Should we begin talking about what will happen to Oracle after California is hit by a major earthquake?. Don´t think so. Well, we can, but it´s of little value. Only scares people away. Forking only occur as a measure of last resort (after bad things > happen), or if there are disagreement between core developers for the > future direction of the project. > > -- > -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" > Those posts going like "OMG what will happen to us after Oracle bought this firm" only serve to install doubt into the minds of prospective new users. NOTHING coming from Oracle indicates that they want to "get rid" of the product, it´s only in a few people´s imagination. It´s like boarding a plane and start "well, what will happen now that this airline has been bought by another larger one? do you think they have had enough money to give this plane proper maintenance? Will this airline continue flying? I don´t think so. Look at their numbers... in fact, if this plane crashes, " It´s useless talk that only helps scare people away... FC ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On 03/07/2010 05:22 PM, Alexey Eremenko wrote: > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Lew Wolfgang > wrote: > >> On 03/07/2010 12:17 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> >>> Lew, wether you realize it or not, your "innocent question" is PURE FUD. >>> >>> FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt >>> >>> I reply with the same answer I gave to someone else back in mid-January: >>> >> You need to work on your bedside manner, Fernando. >> >> >>> Virtualbox is a DESKTOP virtualization product. >>> >> I never would have guessed! >> >> >>> All the Xen derivatives are enterprise-class virtualization products, >>> more geared towards server use and command line management. >>> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-xen-server-vps-monitoring-commands.html >>> >>> Virtualbox on the other hand shares the same user base and target >>> audience as vmware player and Virtual PC, two other "free" products >>> that do not "make money" to their software makers. >>> >> Vmware and Microsoft are, according to most folks, successful. I wouldn't >> trust Microsoft as far as I can throw them, but Vmware has a successful >> business model and has been around for a long time. Compare this with >> VirtualBox. Purchased by a failing Sun, and now folded into a profitable >> company with unknown (by us) intentions who just dropped their user's >> mailing list. Hm... >> >> >>> Yet, I don´t see people asking "what if" FUD questions about Microsoft >>> dropping Virtual PC or Vmware dropping "Vmware player". >>> >> Vmware wasn't just purchased! Do you think that anyone would build a >> business model relying on VirtualBox at this point? Sure, the OSE version >> is open source, but is there a non-Sun community working on maintenance? >> There's an excellent chance that if Oracle spits out VirtualBox it >> will dry up and blow away. Is this the time to fork the project? I'd >> feel much better if the community could both maintain the code and add >> USB support. >> >> Is this FUD? Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to use VirtualBox myself >> and for my clients as long as I can. I wish Oracle well too, and hope >> that if they drop the product that they'll release the USB bits too. >> > Yes, Lew, this is FUD. > > Forking only occur as a measure of last resort (after bad things > happen), or if there are disagreement between core developers for the > future direction of the project. > > In addition to this being FUD, VirtualBox used to be part of Innotek. Then Sun acquired Innotek. I remember in the IRC channel and in this mail list, people were extremely fearful that Sun was going to drop VirtualBox or destroy it, etc etc. Now, Oracle has bought Sun. Business as usual, in my eyes. ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote: > On 03/07/2010 12:17 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> >> Lew, wether you realize it or not, your "innocent question" is PURE FUD. >> >> FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt >> >> I reply with the same answer I gave to someone else back in mid-January: > > You need to work on your bedside manner, Fernando. > >> Virtualbox is a DESKTOP virtualization product. > > I never would have guessed! > >> All the Xen derivatives are enterprise-class virtualization products, >> more geared towards server use and command line management. >> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-xen-server-vps-monitoring-commands.html >> >> Virtualbox on the other hand shares the same user base and target >> audience as vmware player and Virtual PC, two other "free" products >> that do not "make money" to their software makers. > > Vmware and Microsoft are, according to most folks, successful. I wouldn't > trust Microsoft as far as I can throw them, but Vmware has a successful > business model and has been around for a long time. Compare this with > VirtualBox. Purchased by a failing Sun, and now folded into a profitable > company with unknown (by us) intentions who just dropped their user's > mailing list. Hm... > >> Yet, I don´t see people asking "what if" FUD questions about Microsoft >> dropping Virtual PC or Vmware dropping "Vmware player". > > Vmware wasn't just purchased! Do you think that anyone would build a > business model relying on VirtualBox at this point? Sure, the OSE version > is open source, but is there a non-Sun community working on maintenance? > There's an excellent chance that if Oracle spits out VirtualBox it > will dry up and blow away. Is this the time to fork the project? I'd > feel much better if the community could both maintain the code and add > USB support. > > Is this FUD? Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to use VirtualBox myself > and for my clients as long as I can. I wish Oracle well too, and hope > that if they drop the product that they'll release the USB bits too. Yes, Lew, this is FUD. Forking only occur as a measure of last resort (after bad things happen), or if there are disagreement between core developers for the future direction of the project. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On 03/07/2010 12:17 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: > > Lew, wether you realize it or not, your "innocent question" is PURE FUD. > > FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt > > I reply with the same answer I gave to someone else back in mid-January: You need to work on your bedside manner, Fernando. > Virtualbox is a DESKTOP virtualization product. I never would have guessed! > All the Xen derivatives are enterprise-class virtualization products, > more geared towards server use and command line management. > http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-xen-server-vps-monitoring-commands.html > > Virtualbox on the other hand shares the same user base and target > audience as vmware player and Virtual PC, two other "free" products > that do not "make money" to their software makers. Vmware and Microsoft are, according to most folks, successful. I wouldn't trust Microsoft as far as I can throw them, but Vmware has a successful business model and has been around for a long time. Compare this with VirtualBox. Purchased by a failing Sun, and now folded into a profitable company with unknown (by us) intentions who just dropped their user's mailing list. Hm... > Yet, I don´t see people asking "what if" FUD questions about Microsoft > dropping Virtual PC or Vmware dropping "Vmware player". Vmware wasn't just purchased! Do you think that anyone would build a business model relying on VirtualBox at this point? Sure, the OSE version is open source, but is there a non-Sun community working on maintenance? There's an excellent chance that if Oracle spits out VirtualBox it will dry up and blow away. Is this the time to fork the project? I'd feel much better if the community could both maintain the code and add USB support. Is this FUD? Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to use VirtualBox myself and for my clients as long as I can. I wish Oracle well too, and hope that if they drop the product that they'll release the USB bits too. Regards, Lew ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Lew Wolfgang wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I'm a bit worried about VirtualBox and how it will fit into Oracle's > business model. I think it's a given that Oracle will expect their > new Sun purchase to turn a profit sooner than later. If it doesn't, > what parts will they shed and abandon? That they have announced the > decommissioning of vbox-users is also worth worrying about. The actual > cost of hosting the mailing list is close to zero, so what are they > thinking? Was Sun paying employees to participate in the list and now > Oracle wants to cut back? > > What issues will the community face if VirtualBox is cast adrift? Lew, wether you realize it or not, your "innocent question" is PURE FUD. FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt I reply with the same answer I gave to someone else back in mid-January: Virtualbox is a DESKTOP virtualization product. All the Xen derivatives are enterprise-class virtualization products, more geared towards server use and command line management. http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-xen-server-vps-monitoring-commands.html Virtualbox on the other hand shares the same user base and target audience as vmware player and Virtual PC, two other "free" products that do not "make money" to their software makers. Yet, I don´t see people asking "what if" FUD questions about Microsoft dropping Virtual PC or Vmware dropping "Vmware player". FC ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 10:19:40AM +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote: > 1. Oracle said they will keep VBox, as a companion to their Enterprise > virtualization offerings. (like a demo for the big thing) Besides that, let's not forget about virtualbox ose, which is under the GPL. As I recall being pointed out somewhere (on virtualbox.org, or in the manual, can't remember where), and correctly so, even if the PUEL version goes away, the ose version can't, and won't go away, up to the point that it stops being maintained. If/when that happens, there's nothing stopping anyone from continuing to maintain the gpl version of virtualbox. If attempts were made to restrict the usage/maintenance of the gpl version in some way, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the FSF challenge such a turn of events. So, in the worst case scenario, the OSE version will still be there, even if the PUEL version goes away, I won't speculate on if that will happen, or not. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkuUAfUACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyAZZACeI3ZvqWzpLgmxB+fiYoljPFaF R/cAmgJgjCm3IrY5gAXQEs882UEl390K =9p8D -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
Re: [vbox-users] What is Oracle Going to Do?
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Lew Wolfgang wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I'm a bit worried about VirtualBox and how it will fit into Oracle's > business model. I think it's a given that Oracle will expect their > new Sun purchase to turn a profit sooner than later. If it doesn't, > what parts will they shed and abandon? That they have announced the > decommissioning of vbox-users is also worth worrying about. The actual > cost of hosting the mailing list is close to zero, so what are they > thinking? Was Sun paying employees to participate in the list and now > Oracle wants to cut back? > > What issues will the community face if VirtualBox is cast adrift? > I think the "profit" issue is not connected to the "vbox-users" mailing list issue. 1. Oracle said they will keep VBox, as a companion to their Enterprise virtualization offerings. (like a demo for the big thing) 2. cutting "vbox-users" mailing list is probably bad management decision. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" ___ vbox-users mailing list vbox-users@virtualbox.org http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users
