Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Sorry to jump in on this, but I wonder if people could suggest what the settings should be in xineliboutput plugins options? I have just upped my card from an 8400 to an N210 with 512MB ram in order to get 1080i/60hz interlacing working. It's an improvement, but I think I still have somewhere to go. I am using a Eurospec TV although am trying to use it at 60hz (I moved to the US from Italy) via a DVI to HDMI cable. I have two modelines, which I switch by my remote using the xrandr command, 720p60 looks better, but I think I should using 1080i I have two ATSC card which show 720p60 and 1080i60 and a Hauppuage PVR HD and the pvrinput plugin, this I use to show HD content from a cable box. That I can select to either 1080i or 720p. Most of the content is originally broadcast in 1080i. I am using ModeLine 1920x1080i60 74.18 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 +HSync +VSync Interlace and Modeline 1280x720_60 74.48 1280 1336 1472 1664 720 721 724 746 -HSync +Vsync X won't display the correct resolution by default, as my edid is messed up on my TV. What deinterlacing options should I use on the plugin? Bob? TVTime then scaler Bob? Judder correct etc etc? Most SD stuff here is badly done 4:3, with stations like BBC America adding black bars to the top and bottom, so I get a square in the middle of the TV. Xineliboutput can zoom this quite well, but after a while the whole picture judders until I kill vdr-sxfe and reload it. Do I need FFMpeg to work alongside it or will that kill vdpau? Thanks.. -- Rob Davis ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Friday 27 August 2010 20:22:03 Rob Davis wrote: I am using a Eurospec TV although am trying to use it at 60hz (I moved to the US from Italy) via a DVI to HDMI cable. I have two modelines, which I switch by my remote using the xrandr command, 720p60 looks better, but I think I should using 1080i The difference can be extremely hard to see depending on the source material, viewing distance and display size. What deinterlacing options should I use on the plugin? Bob? TVTime then scaler Bob? Judder correct etc etc? If the picture is first deinterlaced on the pc and then output (re)interlaced and the tv deinterlaces again I'd expect some massive quality loss from this pointlessness. If the tv won't accept 1920x1080p60 then you're probably better off using the vdpau deinterlacer (--post tvtime:method=use_vo_driver) and 1280x720p60 mode. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Friday 27 August 2010 11:32:11 Goga777 wrote: if you disabled full gpu scaling , how upscaling will work really ? what and how will upscale SD video to 1080p ? This setting is only useful if your display device can't scale on its own or the scaling is worse quality. If you enable it the card will always output native resolution at native refresh. If disabled the gpu will not touch the mode and output whatever you tell it to, in which case the display itself will have to scale the mode as needed. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
En/na Goga777 ha escrit: Provided that I disable Force Full GPU Scaling, the tv reports a 50Hz signal. if you disabled full gpu scaling , how upscaling will work really ? what and how will upscale SD video to 1080p ? According to the help text, that option is only useful if the display resolution is different than the output resolution, so since both are 1920x1080 the option has no effect whatsoever (other than forcing the refresh rate at 60Hz). So even with that option disabled it will upscale SD video to 1080p. Bye -- Luca ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
I had (up till today) problem with my NVidia, what ever I described in xorg.conf, output was 60Hz.. Command what fixed everything: Option FlatPanelProperties Scaling=Native in Section Screen Now, # DISPLAY=:0 nvidia-settings -nt -q RefreshRate 50,00 Hz # JJussi On 27.08.2010 12:14, Jukka Tastula wrote: On Friday 27 August 2010 11:32:11 Goga777 wrote: if you disabled full gpu scaling , how upscaling will work really ? what and how will upscale SD video to 1080p ? This setting is only useful if your display device can't scale on its own or the scaling is worse quality. If you enable it the card will always output native resolution at native refresh. If disabled the gpu will not touch the mode and output whatever you tell it to, in which case the display itself will have to scale the mode as needed. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
En/na JJussi ha escrit: I had (up till today) problem with my NVidia, what ever I described in xorg.conf, output was 60Hz.. Command what fixed everything: Option FlatPanelProperties Scaling=Native in Section Screen That's the same as disabling Force full gpu scaling in nvidia-settings. Bye -- Luca ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Jukka Tastula napsal(a): On Friday 27 August 2010 11:32:11 Goga777 wrote: if you disabled full gpu scaling , how upscaling will work really ? what and how will upscale SD video to 1080p ? This setting is only useful if your display device can't scale on its own or the scaling is worse quality. If you enable it the card will always output native resolution at native refresh. If disabled the gpu will not touch the mode and output whatever you tell it to, in which case the display itself will have to scale the mode as needed. Where and how I can enable output resolution switching? I would like to play HD input in 720p resolution and SD television in 576i resolution. But I don't know how to get it in vdr-xeneliboutput. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
En/na Goga777 ha escrit: if you disabled full gpu scaling , how upscaling will work really ? what and how will upscale SD video to 1080p ? This setting is only useful if your display device can't scale on its own or the scaling is worse quality. If you enable it the card will always output native resolution at native refresh. If disabled the gpu will not touch the mode and output whatever you tell it to, in which case the display itself will have to scale the mode as needed. let's have a look on the following situation. I have full HD TV set, which of course can upscale. TV My xorg.conf has default mode - 1080p can be 2 situation With vdr and vdr-xine I'm watching SD 576i channels and after that I switch to HD 1080i channel. Does graphic card do upscale in first variant (with SD channel) ? Yes (I thought I already told you that). And in the second case it will deinterlace. Afaik vdr-xine cannot switch the display resolution/frequency to match the input signal. Bye -- Luca ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:16:37PM +0300, Prelude wrote: I have suffered this annoying judder in both live and recording viewing. My config_xineliboutput: http://pastebin.com/kxe7RvX0 xorg.xonf: http://pastebin.com/6fCvWvxU sorry, from that configuration alone I can't tell you what's going wrong. When I started to setup my VDPAU machines (end of last year) I first made sure that the Xserver really is running a 50Hz modeline. I mostly play 25/50Hz streams. This way I found an Xserver bug/misbehavior. Only if I explicitly set the modeline params manually in xorg.conf I get real 50Hz output (instead of 60Hz). Please see attached my xorg.conf. Always try: DISPLAY=:0 nvidia-settings --query RefreshRate to verify. Even the Xorg.0.log lies about the fact that 50Hz are active but in reality it uses 60Hz. Maybe nVidia has fixed that in the meantime. After this tuning to a channel with live ticker gives me perfect results. There is not any judder at all. The problem with all this juddering is that the symptom 'judder' alone gives you no hint at all about the root cause of the problem. Maybe you first verify your current nvidia-settings result. cheers Thomas Section Monitor Identifier Monitor0 HorizSync 50.0 - 60.0 VertRefresh 50.0 Option ExactModeTimingsDVI true Option UseEDID false ModeLine 1920x1...@50p 148.500 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync EndSection Section Device Identifier Device0 Driver nvidia Option ModeDebug True EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Device0 MonitorMonitor0 DefaultDepth24 SubSection Display Modes 1920x1...@50p EndSubSection EndSection Section Extensions Option Composite Disable EndSection ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Thursday 26 Aug 2010, Thomas Hilber wrote: When I started to setup my VDPAU machines (end of last year) I first made sure that the Xserver really is running a 50Hz modeline. I mostly play 25/50Hz streams. This way I found an Xserver bug/misbehavior. Only if I explicitly set the modeline params manually in xorg.conf I get real 50Hz output (instead of 60Hz). Please see attached my xorg.conf. Always try: DISPLAY=:0 nvidia-settings --query RefreshRate to verify. Even the Xorg.0.log lies about the fact that 50Hz are active but in reality it uses 60Hz. Maybe nVidia has fixed that in the meantime. After this tuning to a channel with live ticker gives me perfect results. There is not any judder at all. The problem with all this juddering is that the symptom 'judder' alone gives you no hint at all about the root cause of the problem. I've been following this thread with interest... I had been happily running vdr-1.7.0 with a Matrox G450 video card, softdevice, and a CRT TV. At first, I was using a home-built VGA-SCART lead (these cards can generate composite sync so no need for combining sync signals), and then I found a VGA-sVideo cable (came with a similar graphics card at work, ahem!). Then my old TV blew up and I now have a full-HD LCD TV. I've been using the same setup with the new TV and it still works pretty well for the SD signals I can currently receive. HD is starting to appear in the UK and it seems like a good time to replace my current P4-based vdr box with a smaller, low power unit, and an Nvidia ION systems seems to be the current option (although a lack of PCI slots is a tad worrying, at least for the small form-factor boards!). A couple of quick questions... What is the best method for my current SD broadcasts: home-made VGA- SCART lead or HDMI? (Do any of these boards have sVideo these days?) Do I run the X server at the SD resolution or at 1920x1080 and let xine rescale rather than the TV? I'm guessing run the X server at 1920x1080 and then both SD and HD work easily together (with full HD OSD?). I toyed with the xine and the xineliboutput plugins a _long_ while back: which is the easiest option for getting VDPAU working? Thanks, Cheers, Laz ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Hi, Am 26.08.10 12:16, schrieb Laz: Then my old TV blew up and I now have a full-HD LCD TV. I've been using the same setup with the new TV and it still works pretty well for the SD signals I can currently receive. if you new LCD with HDMI use it to connect your HDMI output of the ION board with your TV. Works perfectly here. Xorg works perfectly with it (even sound over hdmi had worked till I upgrade the firware of my Denon receiver :( ). Here the settings from my xorg.conf: Section Monitor Identifier Monitor0 VendorName Monitor Vendor ModelNameMonitor Model EndSection Section Device Identifier Card0 Driver nvidia VendorName nVidia Corporation BoardName Unknown Board BusID PCI:3:0:0 EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Card0 MonitorMonitor0 SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 1 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 4 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 8 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 15 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 16 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection I use the xineliboutput plugin. Bye, Matthias -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rich Cook ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:33:48 +0200 Thomas Hilber v...@toh.cx wrote: When I started to setup my VDPAU machines (end of last year) I first made sure that the Xserver really is running a 50Hz modeline. I mostly play 25/50Hz streams. This way I found an Xserver bug/misbehavior. Only if I explicitly set the modeline params manually in xorg.conf I get real 50Hz output (instead of 60Hz). Please see attached my xorg.conf. Always try: DISPLAY=:0 nvidia-settings --query RefreshRate to verify. Even the Xorg.0.log lies about the fact that 50Hz are active but in reality it uses 60Hz. Maybe nVidia has fixed that in the meantime. Are you aware of the interaction between DynamicTwinView and XRandR? The NVidia driver lies to xrandr about the refresh rate if DynamicTwinView is enabled (the default). See NVidia's README. -- TH * http://www.realh.co.uk ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 03:06:51PM +0100, Tony Houghton wrote: Are you aware of the interaction between DynamicTwinView and XRandR? The no. But if Xorg.0.log tells me (in the bad case): (II) NVIDIA(0): Validating Mode 1920x1080: (II) NVIDIA(0): 1920 x 1080 @ 50 Hz (II) NVIDIA(0): For use as DFP backend. (II) NVIDIA(0): Mode Source: EDID (II) NVIDIA(0): Pixel Clock : 148.50 MHz (II) NVIDIA(0): HRes, HSyncStart : 1920, 2448 (II) NVIDIA(0): HSyncEnd, HTotal : 2492, 2640 (II) NVIDIA(0): VRes, VSyncStart : 1080, 1084 (II) NVIDIA(0): VSyncEnd, VTotal : 1089, 1125 (II) NVIDIA(0): H/V Polarity : +/+ (II) NVIDIA(0): Mode is valid. [...] (II) NVIDIA(0): 1920x1080_50 : 1920 x 1080 @ 50.0 Hz (from: EDID) [...] (II) NVIDIA(0): Config Options in the README. (II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode 1920x1080_50 and it uses a 60Hz modeline though this is clearly a Xserver bug for me. - Thomas ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Al 26/08/10 10:33, En/na Thomas Hilber ha escrit: to verify. Even the Xorg.0.log lies about the fact that 50Hz are active but in reality it uses 60Hz. Maybe nVidia has fixed that in the meantime. To watch HD broadcasts I use the hdmi output on my laptop. It isn't configured in xorg but I just configure it on the fly with nvidia-settings in twin-view mode (the laptop panel at 60Hz and the hdmi port at 50Hz). Provided that I disable Force Full GPU Scaling, the tv reports a 50Hz signal. Bye -- Luca ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
If you can find a modeline what your output is currently using you can use online services to check framerates it provides. xvidtune -show prints the current modeline, but the refresh rate calculated from it will not be the same as the actual rate. My used modeline is (1080p60) $ xvidtune -show -display :0.0 1920x1080 148.50 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync Which compiles to 60Hz output on theory level at epanorama calculator. If it is 60.001Hz because of clock Inaccuracies the TV will synch to it, no problem. As I use my VDR's X-output only for TV-based web browsing with randon youtube/vimeo. However I am now at office, so I cannot use get-edid to read all modelines TV is announcing for PAL-modes/timings. And how Nvidia is altering the proposed timigs as horizontal synchs must be at multitude of 8 (so you cannot have f.ex resolution 1924x1080). - Jori smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:13:56AM +0200, jori.hamalai...@teliasonera.com wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. it's correct that computer hardware normally cannot provide 50.000Hz. Nor can it adapt the framerate dynamically as I did for some handpicked hardware in my sync-fields-project [1]. But even in the case of non synchronized output framerate (VDPAU) it does not necessarily mean that judder will result. Nvidia graphics use excellent deinterlacers. These produce a stream of progressive frames with field frequency (e.g. 50Hz) out of an interlaced source. Single frame doubler/losses at 50Hz are not visible to the human eye. To put that in other words: VDPAU uses some brute force (deinterlacing) to work around their design flaw (missing synchronization). In practice this works very well. Surely it's not an optimal solution: the price for that is excess graphics power requirement if you think in terms of 5W units. But nonetheless the smoothness of picture flow is excellent. If some people report they observe judder though this mostly is a result of a wrong setup (xorg.conf) or use of temporarily broken beta software (xine derivates). With VDPAU design there exists nothing like inherent judder. For the future I wish there once will become available some graphics with native dynamic framerate support. Never seen such thing until today. cheers Thomas [1] http://lowbyte.de/vga-sync-fields/vga-sync-fields/ ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 25.8.2010 20:45, Thomas Hilber wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:13:56AM +0200, jori.hamalai...@teliasonera.com wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. If some people report they observe judder though this mostly is a result of a wrong setup (xorg.conf) or use of temporarily broken beta software (xine derivates). With VDPAU design there exists nothing like inherent judder. First big thx to You Thomas from Your nice vga-sync-fields patch. I used it in my previous system. Currently I use VDR 1.7.15 and vdr-xineliboutput (gentoo ebuild 1.0.) from CVS and checkout date was 20100817. I have suffered this annoying judder in both live and recording viewing. My config_xineliboutput: http://pastebin.com/kxe7RvX0 xorg.xonf: http://pastebin.com/6fCvWvxU nvidia-drivers: nvidia-drivers-256.44 xine-lib: CVS 20100626 Kernel: 2.6.35-gentoo Motherboard: ZOTAC ION ITX D Series http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_wrapperview=wrapperItemid=100026lang=en CPU: Atom 330 GPU: Integrated I'm thankful (And I know couple others too who's have same problem) if You or someone else can check those configs out and tell if there is something wrong. I have already spended many weeks whit reading and testing what ever information/settings from VDPAU xine-lib but nothings have helped so far. Tommi ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 21 August 2010 14:54, Pasi Kärkkäinen pa...@iki.fi wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 01:37:10AM +0300, Niko Mikkilä wrote: Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:54 +0400, Goga777 wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. However, the rate doesn't need to match exactly because the display device is synchronized to the video signal. The rate could be 50.1 Hz or maybe even 51 Hz and the display wouldn't mind. 50 fps video files would play slightly faster, but there would be no need to drop video frames because of that. Things are more problematic when receiving live broadcast. Then the display and the video source (graphics card and software) needs to be synchronized to the broadcast to avoid dropping or duplicating frames. Set-top digital television boxes and FF DVB cards do that, but most graphics cards/drivers can't because they aren't designed to follow an external time source. Audio playback synchronation is another issue, and somewhat difficult to handle properly on a PC where the audio chip's clock is almost always separate from the graphics card's clock. By default, many media players time everything according to the audio clock, and therefore they need to drop/duplicate video frames every now and then. The other alternative is to drop/duplicate audio frames or resample the audio completely. I assume you guys are aware of projects like: http://frc.easy-vdr.de/ It was originally started to get perfectly synced RGB output from a VGA card (to PAL TV), just like from FF DVB card. I haven't really used that myself, but afaik they've been working on making that exact synchronization (variable framerate) possible with new HD/VGA/DVI outputs aswell. -- Pasi Anyone know of an open source project like this one? From the website: ... With a PC running Linux and a recent VGA card, you can emit a real digital TV signal in the VHF band to your DVB-T set-top box. DVB-T emitters are usually very expensive professional devices. Now with a standard PC you can broadcast real DVB-T channels ! http://bellard.org/dvbt/ If you are only able to to transmit over one selected Frequency, but you can stream multiple channels together, you could drive a few SD tvs with built-in dvb-T receivers (modern tvs). I guess HD would limit it. This could be just another alternative. Infra Red would have to be dealt in a different manner. This could save on cables running through the house, by daisy chaining your coax cable like the older TVs. Ideal for content that is already in mpeg2-ts. Theunis ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 01:37:10AM +0300, Niko Mikkilä wrote: Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:54 +0400, Goga777 wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. However, the rate doesn't need to match exactly because the display device is synchronized to the video signal. The rate could be 50.1 Hz or maybe even 51 Hz and the display wouldn't mind. 50 fps video files would play slightly faster, but there would be no need to drop video frames because of that. Things are more problematic when receiving live broadcast. Then the display and the video source (graphics card and software) needs to be synchronized to the broadcast to avoid dropping or duplicating frames. Set-top digital television boxes and FF DVB cards do that, but most graphics cards/drivers can't because they aren't designed to follow an external time source. Audio playback synchronation is another issue, and somewhat difficult to handle properly on a PC where the audio chip's clock is almost always separate from the graphics card's clock. By default, many media players time everything according to the audio clock, and therefore they need to drop/duplicate video frames every now and then. The other alternative is to drop/duplicate audio frames or resample the audio completely. I assume you guys are aware of projects like: http://frc.easy-vdr.de/ It was originally started to get perfectly synced RGB output from a VGA card (to PAL TV), just like from FF DVB card. I haven't really used that myself, but afaik they've been working on making that exact synchronization (variable framerate) possible with new HD/VGA/DVI outputs aswell. -- Pasi ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. If you can find a modeline what your output is currently using you can use online services to check framerates it provides. You can use this link Or give Xfree86 modeline to import-option http://www.epanorama.net/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html For example Xorg server with log verbosity 6 will print modes the X-server is validating. But I am not sure (too busy to check and remove from my VDR) if it writes actual modelines out. ** These framerate/synch issues are so complicated (and uninteresting to most) that we can just made a conclusion that video/audio should be properly synched, otherwise a quality declarating will occour. With VDR's FF card I have never seen such problems. But with softdevice based outputs I can see a lot of them. The video does not seem to be as smooth as on dedicated players (BD, popcorn hour etc). It does not help using direct Toslink-output from VDR which mostly prohibits resampling of audio. And why would you like to have audio decompressed, speeded up 1% and then recompressed. Just to avoid your output software to duplicate or drop frames. Synch perfectly.. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 20 August 2010 00:37, Niko Mikkilä n...@phnet.fi wrote: Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:54 +0400, Goga777 wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. However, the rate doesn't need to match exactly because the display device is synchronized to the video signal. The rate could be 50.1 Hz or maybe even 51 Hz and the display wouldn't mind. 50 fps video files would play slightly faster, but there would be no need to drop video frames because of that. Things are more problematic when receiving live broadcast. Then the display and the video source (graphics card and software) needs to be synchronized to the broadcast to avoid dropping or duplicating frames. Set-top digital television boxes and FF DVB cards do that, but most graphics cards/drivers can't because they aren't designed to follow an external time source. Audio playback synchronation is another issue, and somewhat difficult to handle properly on a PC where the audio chip's clock is almost always separate from the graphics card's clock. By default, many media players time everything according to the audio clock, and therefore they need to drop/duplicate video frames every now and then. The other alternative is to drop/duplicate audio frames or resample the audio completely. -- Niko The hardware is also running some kind of software/firmware (binary blob). I would think that the Larabee would have been the perfect choice, easier to create newer/maintaining firmware, since it is x86 based. If they made the Larabee propriety for the parts that we are interested in. Then it would also defeat the purpose of having a dynamic decoding environment. Which current hardware devices fail to do. There for the argument to have a software based solution that can do more than just one thing, not just live tv but also alternative media sources/codecs. Current hardware is good for Live TV and Recordings, software based solutions are good for dynamic media/source input, newer codecs etc, not so good at displaying it properly 100% all the time. my 2c. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Fri, 2010-08-20 at 10:08 +0200, jori.hamalai...@teliasonera.com wrote: There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. If you can find a modeline what your output is currently using you can use online services to check framerates it provides. xvidtune -show prints the current modeline, but the refresh rate calculated from it will not be the same as the actual rate. The clock chrystals have deviations in order of 0.01 % and the only way to fix that is by adjusting the timing slightly at frequent intervals as vga-sync-fields does. Having a more accurate time source might not help either because the broadcast may not be accurately timed. It does not help using direct Toslink-output from VDR which mostly prohibits resampling of audio. Audio can be resampled with any PCM output. The idea is to adjust the playback speed slightly by resampling for example 48 kHz audio to 48.01 kHz and then playing the result back at 48 kHz. This is more difficult if you'd like to play multi-channel AC-3 with S/PDIF passthrough; then the audio would need to be decoded, resampled and re-encoded. An easier alternative is to drop/duplicate AC-3 packets, but that may be more noticeable on playback. Both Xine and XBMC support resampling audio. XBMC also supports dropping/duplicating audio packets. And why would you like to have audio decompressed, speeded up 1% and then recompressed. Just to avoid your output software to duplicate or drop frames. Synch perfectly.. Yep, that's the best way to get fluid video playback with synchronized audio on current PC hardware. Re-encoding is unnecessary with stereo streams or HDMI1.3 and analog multichannel outputs. High-quality resampling is totally unnoticeable. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
btw, have a look on new ASRock Core 100HT NetTop http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=asrock_core100htnum=1 ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. Hardware decoding through VA-API is working on some Intel chipsets and CPUs, but I haven't seen any usable GPU deinterlacing implementations besides those in Nvidia's VDPAU. I also would like to remind the framerate issues. Naturally you decide what is enough precision and quality for you. Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? Goga ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:54 +0400, Goga777 wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. However, the rate doesn't need to match exactly because the display device is synchronized to the video signal. The rate could be 50.1 Hz or maybe even 51 Hz and the display wouldn't mind. 50 fps video files would play slightly faster, but there would be no need to drop video frames because of that. Things are more problematic when receiving live broadcast. Then the display and the video source (graphics card and software) needs to be synchronized to the broadcast to avoid dropping or duplicating frames. Set-top digital television boxes and FF DVB cards do that, but most graphics cards/drivers can't because they aren't designed to follow an external time source. Audio playback synchronation is another issue, and somewhat difficult to handle properly on a PC where the audio chip's clock is almost always separate from the graphics card's clock. By default, many media players time everything according to the audio clock, and therefore they need to drop/duplicate video frames every now and then. The other alternative is to drop/duplicate audio frames or resample the audio completely. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 18.08.2010 00:36, Paul Menzel wrote: What driver did you use? I used the ppa:gma500/ppa repository as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsPoulsbo for Ubuntu Lucid. There is lot of green in the table the real situation for this driver is not as excellent/good. Or if it is good then as comparison Nvidia binary driver quality is superior and high above the scale... I have had problems with Nvidia drivers but they have been solved/mitigated to usable level. Even if closed binary drivers are generally bad there are poor and usable examples. Anyway, »besides Intel Poulsbo« meant this chip is using closed drivers and is not supported by xf86-video-intel and so it does not fit into my wish list. I fully agree. If I knew this Intel chipset had only closed binary drivers I would have bought my kids another netbook. I bet there will be problems with new X.org and next Ubuntu problems. BR, Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 16.8.2010 19:05, Seppo Ingalsuo wrote: Asus Bravo 220 silent seems to be a passive model. Do you know if these non-motherboard integrated cards support 7.1ch PCM audio over HDMI? http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=HOW-TO_set_up_HDMI_audio_on_nVidia_GeForce_G210%2C_GT220%2C_or_GT240 Don't know is that 5.1 or 7.1. XBMC forum has long thread about this. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Hi, On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 19:05 +0300, Seppo Ingalsuo wrote: Asus Bravo 220 silent seems to be a passive model. Do you know if these non-motherboard integrated cards support 7.1ch PCM audio over HDMI? Yes, as VDR User said, the latest generation VP4/VDPAU feature set C cards (GeForce 210, GT 220, ...) have an integrated audio controller. The ALSA driver should support 7.1 channel PCM too. Some older cards have an S/PDIF input header but they don't support multichannel PCM, obviously. I got as PM one tip that pointed to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs I wonder if some smaller number cheaper model with similar VP4/C skills would do? E.g. Asus EN210 Silent? It could also produce less heat? The text in Wikipedia is not perfectly in line with the table so I wonder if GT2xx is needed for best VDPAU support. IMO the only reason to go for a separate card over ION would be higher quality 1080i deinterlacing. You'll need GT 220 for that since GeForce 210 is only slightly faster than ION. They have the same video processor and therefore the same video decoding capabilities, but post-processing is done on the graphics cores. It seems that the IONs are VP3/B so your prosal is certainly better (if there is HDMI audio support). ION2 has VP4/C, I think. If you don't need advanced 1080i deinterlacing, Asus AT5IONT-I is a very good option right now. It has ION2, latest dualcore Atom and USB3, and it's passively cooled. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 15.8.2010 21:59, Seppo Ingalsuo wrote: Hi, My old HTPC motherboard died and I'm now looking for a new one to become a vdr-sxfe thin client. The old Silverstone case is for normal ATX board but I no more need PCI slots so a smaller one, even a Mini-ITX would do. Since the PC runs 24/7 I'm interested in low-power motherboards with Atom CPU. There should be VDPAU support for MPEG-2 SDTV decoding + high-quality de-interlacing. I'm watching also sometimes H.264 HDTV channels from satellite. There should be 1080p50 video + up 7.1ch multi-channel PCM audio over HDMI. I'd like to get rid of SPDIF connection to AV-receiver. My HTPC box has a home-brew LIRC receiver that connected to motherboard (Asus style) COM port heading. If COM ports are history I could change to Bluetooth remote control with a PS3 Blu-Ray remote. Therefore integrated BT support would be nice (otherwise some USB-BT dongle). WLAN is not mandatory since I stream from vdr server over gigabit ethernet. Are there still issues with some ethernet chipsets and Linux? I found some options such as Asus AT3IONT-I DELUXE, Asus AT3IONT-I, Asus AT5IONT-I. I would be happy to hear experiences about these motherboards with Linux and Xine. Are there problems with some motherboard features? Other recommendations are welcome too! Cheers, Seppo Hi Seppo, I'm also starting to check for a new setup, and i'm on the same line as you: Silent, low-power device that will runn 24/7. I have not yet looked too much around, but there is one thing i'm wondering. What kind of dvb-devices will you use? My current setup has two pci-cards, Full featured Technoternd dvb-s, and an other TT budget dvb-t. I have to replace the dvb-t card with dvb-c, because i will soon move to an area with cable-tv.. Is it possible to go with completely dvb-usb devices? Are thet reliable enough to not freeze/crash etc? Regards, René ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Dear VDR folks, Am Sonntag, den 15.08.2010, 21:59 +0300 schrieb Seppo Ingalsuo: My old HTPC motherboard died and I'm now looking for a new one to become a vdr-sxfe thin client. The old Silverstone case is for normal ATX board but I no more need PCI slots so a smaller one, even a Mini-ITX would do. Since the PC runs 24/7 I'm interested in low-power motherboards with Atom CPU. There should be VDPAU support for MPEG-2 SDTV decoding + high-quality de-interlacing. I'm watching also sometimes H.264 HDTV channels from satellite. There should be 1080p50 video + up 7.1ch multi-channel PCM audio over HDMI. I'd like to get rid of SPDIF connection to AV-receiver. My HTPC box has a home-brew LIRC receiver that connected to motherboard (Asus style) COM port heading. If COM ports are history I could change to Bluetooth remote control with a PS3 Blu-Ray remote. Therefore integrated BT support would be nice (otherwise some USB-BT dongle). WLAN is not mandatory since I stream from vdr server over gigabit ethernet. Are there still issues with some ethernet chipsets and Linux? I found some options such as Asus AT3IONT-I DELUXE, Asus AT3IONT-I, Asus AT5IONT-I. I would be happy to hear experiences about these motherboards with Linux and Xine. Are there problems with some motherboard features? Other recommendations are welcome too! is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. The VIA chipset VX855 was supposed to have support 1080p support build in. But those devices do not seem to be available in non Asian regions. AMD/ATI or Intel should also over some products fitting your need. And I heard the drivers matured quite a bit (besides Intel Poulsbo). Unfortunately I do not own such systems. Thanks, Paul signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. The VIA chipset VX855 was supposed to have support 1080p support build in. But those devices do not seem to be available in non Asian regions. AMD/ATI or Intel should also over some products fitting your need. And I heard the drivers matured quite a bit (besides Intel Poulsbo). Unfortunately I do not own such systems. I installed vdr-sxfe to Poulsbo/GMA500 netbook but there is no Xv and VA API is not supported by xine-lib. There is mplayer support but I don't know if deintelacing is good. I haven't tried. An unscaled window works but fullscreen is horrible. The real Intel graphics stuff is likely better but I have no experience about that. Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 13:56 +0300, Rene wrote: I'm also starting to check for a new setup, and i'm on the same line as you: Silent, low-power device that will runn 24/7. I have not yet looked too much around, but there is one thing i'm wondering. What kind of dvb-devices will you use? I use the multiple vdr instance hack proposed in xineliboutput documentation. My 2xDVB-T(dual tuners) and DVB-S2 cards are PCI and they are in a separate home server that runs in non-living areas of the house so noise doesn't matter. There are also several hard disks. I don't know what happens if that mobo dies. It could be difficult to find motherboards with enough legacy PCI slots. I need four because there's also one extra network card. My current setup has two pci-cards, Full featured Technoternd dvb-s, and an other TT budget dvb-t. I have to replace the dvb-t card with dvb-c, because i will soon move to an area with cable-tv.. Is it possible to go with completely dvb-usb devices? Are thet reliable enough to not freeze/crash etc? At least for dish I need PCI type of card because USB cards do not output enough power for a motorized positioner. BR, Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 13:39 +0300, Niko Mikkilä wrote: Yes, as VDR User said, the latest generation VP4/VDPAU feature set C cards (GeForce 210, GT 220, ...) have an integrated audio controller. The ALSA driver should support 7.1 channel PCM too. I found that someone has had success with such cards http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=143610page=4 IMO the only reason to go for a separate card over ION would be higher quality 1080i deinterlacing. You'll need GT 220 for that since GeForce 210 is only slightly faster than ION. They have the same video processor and therefore the same video decoding capabilities, but post-processing is done on the graphics cores. Good point. I think 1080i is rare content for me. If ION is as good as a GT220 with 576i, 720p and 1080p then it could be very suitable for my needs. It seems that the IONs are VP3/B so your prosal is certainly better (if there is HDMI audio support). ION2 has VP4/C, I think. If you don't need advanced 1080i deinterlacing, Asus AT5IONT-I is a very good option right now. It has ION2, latest dualcore Atom and USB3, and it's passively cooled. It's an interesting new board but I wonder if there's some risk for problems. I tried to search but I could not find reports about success with Ubuntu or Linux generally. Do Nvidia's binary graphics drivers support ION2? BR, Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Hi Paul, On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 17:13 +0200, Paul Menzel wrote: is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. Hardware decoding through VA-API is working on some Intel chipsets and CPUs, but I haven't seen any usable GPU deinterlacing implementations besides those in Nvidia's VDPAU. AMD's XvBA is closed and still too buggy to be used in practice. I haven't heard much about S3/VIA. Broadcom CrystalHD has open-source drivers, but it also doesn't deinterlace anything. This page list all VA-API compatible hardware solutions: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/vaapi So, basically it's either Intel or Broadcom CrystalHD with open-source drivers or Nvidia with closed ones. Only Nvidia and CrystalHD hardware decoding is usable on Atom-based motherboards. For the Intel way, you'd need to step up to something based on GM45 or Core i3 and forget about fancy 1080i deinterlacing and other postprocessing. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Paul Menzel paulepan...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. Just wondering why you even care about this... The Nvidia drivers work well for me and honestly that's all I care about. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Tue, 2010-08-17 kello 19:36 +0300, Seppo Ingalsuo wrote: On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 13:39 +0300, Niko Mikkilä wrote: IMO the only reason to go for a separate card over ION would be higher quality 1080i deinterlacing. You'll need GT 220 for that since GeForce 210 is only slightly faster than ION. They have the same video processor and therefore the same video decoding capabilities, but post-processing is done on the graphics cores. Good point. I think 1080i is rare content for me. If ION is as good as a GT220 with 576i, 720p and 1080p then it could be very suitable for my needs. ION 2 should be about as good as GT220 for those formats. Older ION works too since you probably don't need all the new features in VDPAU feature set C. If you don't need advanced 1080i deinterlacing, Asus AT5IONT-I is a very good option right now. It has ION2, latest dualcore Atom and USB3, and it's passively cooled. It's an interesting new board but I wonder if there's some risk for problems. I tried to search but I could not find reports about success with Ubuntu or Linux generally. Yep, that's always the question with new hardware. I'd expect any showstopping issues to be fixed pretty quickly though, at least on Nvidia's side. Their Linux support has been quite outstanding in my opinion. Do Nvidia's binary graphics drivers support ION2? It should. The README lists it as Second Generation ION. See: http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/256.44/README/supportedchips.html -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Am Dienstag, den 17.08.2010, 19:06 +0300 schrieb Seppo Ingalsuo: is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. The VIA chipset VX855 was supposed to have support 1080p support build in. But those devices do not seem to be available in non Asian regions. AMD/ATI or Intel should also over some products fitting your need. And I heard the drivers matured quite a bit (besides Intel Poulsbo). Unfortunately I do not own such systems. I installed vdr-sxfe to Poulsbo/GMA500 netbook but there is no Xv and VA API is not supported by xine-lib. There is mplayer support but I don't know if deintelacing is good. I haven't tried. An unscaled window works but fullscreen is horrible. The real Intel graphics stuff is likely better but I have no experience about that. What driver did you use? Anyway, »besides Intel Poulsbo« meant this chip is using closed drivers and is not supported by xf86-video-intel and so it does not fit into my wish list. Thanks, Paul signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Am Dienstag, den 17.08.2010, 09:48 -0700 schrieb VDR User: On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Paul Menzel paulepan...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: is there really no recommendation for a board not using Nvidia graphics components? It would really be great to not depend on proprietary drivers. Just wondering why you even care about this... The Nvidia drivers work well for me and honestly that's all I care about. Good for you. As I wrote I do not want to start a flame war. But you asked. ;-) Everyone should decide for himself what he wants. I am on the side of Free Software and believe that it has more advantages than just »it works«. For example I believe supporting hardware requiring non-free software puts more work to the distributions and people working on those because they have to answer a lot of support request when people contact them and not Nvidia and they cannot fix problems because they do not have access to the code. Secondly I guess you will find a lot of requests for fixes the Nvidia driver which have not been accomplished. I think you will find a lot of information about this whole issue on the Internet and others can lay down the points better than I can. But as I said, it is just an axiom, so you cannot argue what is right or wrong. Thanks, Paul signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Paul Menzel paulepan...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: Just wondering why you even care about this... The Nvidia drivers work well for me and honestly that's all I care about. Good for you. As I wrote I do not want to start a flame war. But you asked. ;-) Everyone should decide for himself what he wants. I am on the side of Free Software and believe that it has more advantages than just »it works«. For example I believe supporting hardware requiring non-free software puts more work to the distributions and people working on those because they have to answer a lot of support request when people contact them and not Nvidia and they cannot fix problems because they do not have access to the code. Secondly I guess you will find a lot of requests for fixes the Nvidia driver which have not been accomplished. I think you will find a lot of information about this whole issue on the Internet and others can lay down the points better than I can. But as I said, it is just an axiom, so you cannot argue what is right or wrong. I just wondered what your reasoning is, nothing more. There's absolutely no reason you should assume it's attempt to start a flame war or argue. There is no crime in people having different points of view. I've now lost interest in this thread but thanks for sharing your opinion. Good luck in your qwest. Cheers, Derek ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Hi, Thanks Goga777, On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 00:35 +0400, Goga777 wrote: I recommend you to use PCI-E GT220 Geforce card with motheboard which you will choice Asus Bravo 220 silent seems to be a passive model. Do you know if these non-motherboard integrated cards support 7.1ch PCM audio over HDMI? I got as PM one tip that pointed to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs I wonder if some smaller number cheaper model with similar VP4/C skills would do? E.g. Asus EN210 Silent? It could also produce less heat? The text in Wikipedia is not perfectly in line with the table so I wonder if GT2xx is needed for best VDPAU support. It seems that the IONs are VP3/B so your prosal is certainly better (if there is HDMI audio support). this series has very good performance for 1080i temporal_spatial deinterlacing and h264 decoding have a look on qvdpautest http://linuxdvb.org.ru/wbb/index.php?page=ThreadpostID=16142#post16142 Fortunately there's google translate - so there's some worry about passive cooled GT220s? At least the picture of Gigabyte GT220 shows a pretty large heatsink and fan ;^) BR, Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Thanks VDR User, On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 14:01 -0700, VDR User wrote: Why not get one of the Zotac IONITX boards and stick it in the M350 case like I did? I'm not familiar with Zotac but I could try it instead my usual of Asus mobos (the one that died was an Asus too). Zotac seems to be sold here Finland too. I'm planning to use the old Silverstone case and the old working silent high-effciency Enermax ATX power supply. That would rule out at least Asus ION deluxe style boards that seem to have an external PSU and just a DC connector in the mobo. I don't want to get external power boxes to living room and would feel sorry to throw away working stuff ;^) When considering other tips too it's going to be tough to decide what path to take here: budget/minimal vs. more power and possibly better visual quality etc. :^) Fanless, low power, and OS can be installed on SSD, usb flash stick, Microdrive, SD(HC), CF, you name it. They all have usb adapters so that way your system will remain totally silent. True, my old IDE HDD is not compatible with new boards, so some flash based storage would be nice. BR, Seppo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Seppo Ingalsuo seppo.ingal...@iki.fi wrote: Fanless, low power, and OS can be installed on SSD, usb flash stick, Microdrive, SD(HC), CF, you name it. They all have usb adapters so that way your system will remain totally silent. True, my old IDE HDD is not compatible with new boards, so some flash based storage would be nice. I've been using flash-based on a few of my systems for a few years now and I've worked pretty much flawlessly. Though on those I have never ventured away from the ext2 filesystem since it has no journaling. However, as cheap as they are now (usb sticks that is), it wouldn't be a big deal to have a couple on stand-by in case on died. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Why not get one of the Zotac IONITX boards and stick it in the M350 case like I did? would you like please show qvdpautest results for zotzc ionitx Fanless, low power, and OS can be installed on SSD, usb flash stick, Microdrive, SD(HC), CF, you name it. They all have usb adapters so that way your system will remain totally silent. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
I recommend you to use PCI-E GT220 Geforce card with motheboard which you will choice Asus Bravo 220 silent seems to be a passive model. Do you know if these non-motherboard integrated cards support 7.1ch PCM audio over HDMI? seems, doesn't support I got as PM one tip that pointed to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs I wonder if some smaller number cheaper model with similar VP4/C skills would do? E.g. Asus EN210 Silent? It could also produce less heat? The text in Wikipedia is not perfectly in line with the table so I wonder if GT2xx is needed for best VDPAU support. It seems that the IONs are VP3/B so your prosal is certainly better (if there is HDMI audio support). this series has very good performance for 1080i temporal_spatial deinterlacing and h264 decoding have a look on qvdpautest http://linuxdvb.org.ru/wbb/index.php?page=ThreadpostID=16142#post16142 Fortunately there's google translate - so there's some worry about passive cooled GT220s? At least the picture of Gigabyte GT220 shows a pretty large heatsink and fan ;^) yes, I will clarify this worries :) Goga ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
would you like please show qvdpautest results for zotzc ionitx This is already been posted on a few different forums on the net. Google will get that info quicker I think. Also, I would think any GT220 has an own audio controller and therefore HDMI audio but this is an assumption. My GT220 does. However, if it doesn't then I'm sure that it has an SPDIF IN connector (whether it's advertised as having one or not). I have at least one other card where there is no mention of SPDIF IN anywhere in any documentation but the connector is in fact there. And I used it to get audio with my DVI out, then a DVI-HDMI cable to get HDMI AUDIO/VIDEO going into my tv. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Приветствую, Seppo I recommend you to use PCI-E GT220 Geforce card with motheboard which you will choice this series has very good performance for 1080i temporal_spatial deinterlacing and h264 decoding have a look on qvdpautest http://linuxdvb.org.ru/wbb/index.php?page=ThreadpostID=16142#post16142 My old HTPC motherboard died and I'm now looking for a new one to become a vdr-sxfe thin client. The old Silverstone case is for normal ATX board but I no more need PCI slots so a smaller one, even a Mini-ITX would do. Since the PC runs 24/7 I'm interested in low-power motherboards with Atom CPU. There should be VDPAU support for MPEG-2 SDTV decoding + high-quality de-interlacing. I'm watching also sometimes H.264 HDTV channels from satellite. There should be 1080p50 video + up 7.1ch multi-channel PCM audio over HDMI. I'd like to get rid of SPDIF connection to AV-receiver. My HTPC box has a home-brew LIRC receiver that connected to motherboard (Asus style) COM port heading. If COM ports are history I could change to Bluetooth remote control with a PS3 Blu-Ray remote. Therefore integrated BT support would be nice (otherwise some USB-BT dongle). WLAN is not mandatory since I stream from vdr server over gigabit ethernet. Are there still issues with some ethernet chipsets and Linux? I found some options such as Asus AT3IONT-I DELUXE, Asus AT3IONT-I, Asus AT5IONT-I. I would be happy to hear experiences about these motherboards with Linux and Xine. Are there problems with some motherboard features? Other recommendations are welcome too! ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Why not get one of the Zotac IONITX boards and stick it in the M350 case like I did? Fanless, low power, and OS can be installed on SSD, usb flash stick, Microdrive, SD(HC), CF, you name it. They all have usb adapters so that way your system will remain totally silent. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
