Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
I'm sure this wouldnt matter to those that champion the use of links within videos ... but would that break ipod compatability of the video? (they obviously wouldnt be able to follow the links, but I mean would the video no longer even play on an iPod if I were to experiment with this in-video linking?)On 10/27/05, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:08:21 +0200, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part.But it's the most interesting part. :o)- Andreas --URL:http://www.solitude.dk/Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life.http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- http://www.DavidMeade.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Not yet its not Andreas...in fact granularity for granularity's sake is particularly tedious..at the moment then the 'interest' is purely academic On 27/10/05 3:39 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:08:21 +0200, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part. But it's the most interesting part. :o) - Andreas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Why do you say granularity for the sake of granularity? That's not a goal. Granularity for the sake of creating works that embrace the workings of the web could be one. I don't know what to make of your comment about it being academic - the word is ambiguous. - Andreas On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:46:53 +0200, Mat Wall-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not yet its not Andreas...in fact granularity for granularity's sake is particularly tedious..at the moment then the 'interest' is purely academic On 27/10/05 3:39 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:08:21 +0200, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part. But it's the most interesting part. :o) - Andreas Yahoo! Groups Links -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Oct 27, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Mat Wall-Smith wrote: Not yet its not Andreas...in fact granularity for granularity's sake is particularly tedious..at the moment then the 'interest' is purely academic Exactly. I agree. I said in my Vlog Anarchy video that I love interactive things and I love to see more of it. My background is performance art. In 1995 I did a movement/text/video piece that performed in the round with a quad-stereo soundtrack and improvisational lighting. The order of the sections were determined randomly by my daughter (Dylan - 1.5 yrs old) before each performance. Part of that was about creating a different performance for each audience member each night. It was one of my experiments in creating non-linear live performances. It was heavily influenced by this web thing I'd been looking at for about a year and those Avid non-linear video editors that I'd only read about in magazines. Anyway, my point is that the performance was much more interesting conceptually than it was as an experience from the audiences point of view. In that respect I don't think it was much different from other artworks created with similar intentions. The closest thing I've seen to a satisfying, non-linear, interactive story or experience is Riven the second Myst game. -- Verdi URL: http://michaelverdi.com/ URL: http://freevlog.org/ URL: http://node101.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Well I think I'd prefer granularity for the sake of expression. And the word academic is not ambiguous to me and I doubt it is to you. The potential for a distinctly networked videography remains exactly that. Adrian's work explores that potential but I am not sure those elements are any more (or less) important than the short form content, regular posts, syndication, and the various forms of dialogical interaction that are to some degree explored by RB amongst others. Cheers. Mat. On 27/10/05 8:59 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you say granularity for the sake of granularity? That's not a goal. Granularity for the sake of creating works that embrace the workings of the web could be one. I don't know what to make of your comment about it being academic - the word is ambiguous. - Andreas On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:46:53 +0200, Mat Wall-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not yet its not Andreas...in fact granularity for granularity's sake is particularly tedious..at the moment then the 'interest' is purely academic On 27/10/05 3:39 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:08:21 +0200, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part. But it's the most interesting part. :o) - Andreas Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:34:40 +0200, Mat Wall-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Well I think I'd prefer granularity for the sake of expression.
That's what I said.
And the word academic is not ambiguous to me and I doubt it is to you.
I don't know if you academic in the way of 'as related to work done at
universities' or academic in the way of 'having no practical purpose'.
There's a huge difference. The first I can agree with to an extent - no
one is doing much about this, and if it takes academics to put the
spotlight in the topic, I don't know why that should be a bad thing. The
second is a bit silly and possible a bit insulting.
The potential for a distinctly networked videography remains exactly
that.
Adrian's work explores that potential but I am not sure those elements
are
any more (or less) important than the short form content, regular posts,
syndication, and the various forms of dialogical interaction that are to
some degree explored by RB amongst others.
I didn't say that interactivity is a requirement, or that content created
with interactivity is automatically 'better' than content created without
('better' being impossible to determine anyway). I'm saying there is
bloggy video, and there is non-bloggy video and they're not the same. I'm
saying that there are multiple factors that make up a videoblog and one of
these factors is how bloggy the video content is. And I'm saying that a
videoblog with non-bloggy video is not as 'bloggy' as a videoblog with
bloggy video. I'm saying there is this and there is that and that's how it
is.
Personally I would like to see people trying to make more bloggy video. I
like the web, and I like to explore how video and the web (ie. the blog)
can be combined and benifit from each other. Some times I get very
impatient because I don't want to wait 10 years until regular people
figure out that you can do more than just same old video on the web.
It's not like interactivity automatically implies grandiose performance
art pieces. Simple links to what you're talking about is a great thing.
Whenever I hear things like 'As Johnny said yesterday...' in a videoblog I
cringe because there isn't a link to Johnny's blog post, and there is no
reason why there shouldn't be a link there.
- Andreas
--
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Oct 27, 2005, at 1:38 AM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote:On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:04:47 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I making the right inferences? No, damnit. You didn't pay attention. I said this is NOT a case of either/or. It's NOT about "this is a videoblog and this is not a videoblog". It's a case of "to which degree is this videobloggy". It's a continuum.- Andreas-- Ok, if you want to talk "degree", lets get back to percentages. You stated that Rocketboom is "not very bloggy".Therefore, based on that assessement, and taking into consideration everything I know about the definition of a weblog, I think its fair to say that 99.9% of the people here on this list who consider themselves to be videobloggers, with full-fledged videoblogs, creating videoblog posts on a regular basis while answering peoples questions when asked "what is videoblogging" and even teaching how to videoblog, are not at all, or to a "not so much" degree. I just don't see how that could be. I think there is a much greater percentage of blogginess going on out there - so much so, the points you are making seem so trivial. It just seems strange to me to hear you talk so much about one particular future quality of the format which does not define the videoblog at all as it is right now.In that case I think what you are talking about is not even a definition. It's a mere hope.I hope for the same thing, but lets be realistic about what is actually going on around here. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
I standby my claim: you have a lot to learn about new media.I would start by having a look at the blog format and asking yourself how blogging is different from writing for a newspaper. Would you say the Boing Boing is just doing the same thing as the New York Times?Or, if you are like most personal videobloggers, ask yourself 'how is a blogging different than a writing a personal diary?"Once you mull that over for awhile, you may be more prepared to start considering how video on a blog is different than video on a TV. That's just one angle, but it may be a good starting point.It may be important to take into consideration not only how they are different, but how each platform informs the content as well.Duncan: i don;t think this is a valid difference in terms of content.. it is referencing the medium it exists in. There have been (too) many television shows that cut to clips of other tv shows, so an online show that references other online shows is only natural.. and andrew, yes you have possibilities.. but i was ONLY talking about the style of the show, not what it represents.. it was not a criticism, i was just pointing out that is unfair to say that other online news (i use that term VERY loosly ;) ) shows shouldn't be accussed of ripping off rocketboom just because they are irreverant and/or have a single female presenter. It's like saying Bill Hicks rips off Richard Pryor because they both stood alone on stage telling jokes. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Title: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone Hmmm...so much to learn so little time... Rocketboom sucks way more than Public Eye. Wheres my t-shirt. mat On 27/10/05 12:10 AM, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I standby my claim: you have a lot to learn about new media. I would start by having a look at the blog format and asking yourself how blogging is different from writing for a newspaper. Would you say the Boing Boing is just doing the same thing as the New York Times? Or, if you are like most personal videobloggers, ask yourself 'how is a blogging different than a writing a personal diary? Once you mull that over for awhile, you may be more prepared to start considering how video on a blog is different than video on a TV. That's just one angle, but it may be a good starting point. It may be important to take into consideration not only how they are different, but how each platform informs the content as well. Duncan: i don;t think this is a valid difference in terms of content.. it is referencing the medium it exists in. There have been (too) many television shows that cut to clips of other tv shows, so an online show that references other online shows is only natural.. and andrew, yes you have possibilities.. but i was ONLY talking about the style of the show, not what it represents.. it was not a criticism, i was just pointing out that is unfair to say that other online news (i use that term VERY loosly ;) ) shows shouldn't be accussed of ripping off rocketboom just because they are irreverant and/or have a single female presenter. It's like saying Bill Hicks rips off Richard Pryor because they both stood alone on stage telling jokes. SPONSORED LINKS Individual http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Individualw1=Individualw2=Fireantw3=Usec=3s=38.sig=OHeQJKby66gg3t35np-qiw Fireant http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Fireantw1=Individualw2=Fireantw3=Usec=3s=38.sig=hK8TfZa7ClhTIxDJdP6Cbw Use http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Usew1=Individualw2=Fireantw3=Usec=3s=38.sig=fljF53rXtnOMjmpIySYbqA YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On 10/26/05, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I standby my claim: you have a lot to learn about new media. as i mentioned before. there is no need to be patronising.. it's too much of let down to have to send you my CV andrew, so please trust me.. i know a fair amount about new media. I would start by having a look at the blog format and asking yourself how blogging is different from writing for a newspaper. Would you say the Boing Boing is just doing the same thing as the New York Times? diid you actually read my previous post? i said (and now say for the final time) i was referring to VISUAL STYLE AND CONTENT ONLY, not delivery medium, not external context, not distribution..etc etc etc, Referencing BoingBoing is a poorly thought example when we're talking about visual style and content. BB has text and image on its page, but that text contains (visible) hypertext links, there are images in full colour and some animated adverts, none of which is seen in the New York Times, what is in the visual content of Rocketboom videos that isn't on television? Or, if you are like most personal videobloggers, ask yourself 'how is a bloggingdifferent than a writing a personal diary?Once you mull that over for awhile, you may be more prepared to start considering how video on a blog is different than video on a TV. That's just one angle, but it may be a good starting point. leave it out andrew, if you want a sensible and educated debate i'm all up for it, but please make sure you actually read and understand the points i made before coming back with the usual 'how video on a blog is different', that hasn't ever been my point. It may be important to take into consideration not only how they are different, but how each platform informs the content as well. yes.. i've read McLuhan too be well d SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Oct 26, 2005, at 11:12 AM, duncan speakman wrote: On 10/26/05, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I standby my claim: you have a lot to learn about new media. as i mentioned before. there is no need to be patronising.. it's too much of let down to have to send you my CV andrew, so please trust me.. i know a fair amount about new media.Lets take a look again at your original blab, which I would call very patronizing:"a rocketboom clone? ..erm... you know.. call me crazy but i'm sure i've seen casual presenters sitting there telling us about stuff with a cue sheet in their hand before somewhere, hmm.. i think it might have been called television. rocketboom have a style all of their own, but they certainly didn't create that visual presentation format... any 'trendy' shows on Channel 4 (uk), MTV et al from the late 80s and early nineties... "This was your next response:"lol... there's no need to be patronising andrew, i was only talking about visual content/style.. take away the RSS and the links shown below the video and what do you have? "So you say, there is no need to be patronizing, and yet you patronize? Is this not the presentation of a magician?And to your answer? What is left when you take away the technicalities?If you don't see anything, it just seems like you may be missing some of the tools needed to be able to see. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Lets take a look again at your original blab, which I would call very patronizing: a rocketboom clone? ..erm... you know.. call me crazy but i'm sure i've seen casual presenters sitting there telling us about stuff with a cue sheet in their hand before somewhere, hmm.. i think it might have been called television.rocketboom have a style all of their own, but they certainly didn't create that visual presentation format... any 'trendy' shows on Channel 4 (uk), MTV et al from the late 80s and early nineties... ok andrew, this is getting silly, now you're getting into digging and rewinding? my original statement was a comment about the whole 'this is a rocketboom clone' idea which keeps floating around.. it was targeted at no one in particular, referenced no-ones knowledge level and most importantly contained both a compliment and a statement which clarified what i was talking about , i.e. 'visual presentation format'. I really don't understand why you are being so defensive about this? surely 'you' are aware that rocketboom is influenced by televisual presentation styles, that is one of the reasons for it's success, people get the irony and humour because of its references to other media. If you don't see anything, it just seems like you may be missing some of the tools needed to be able to see. ok i have to admit i don't understand this statement. sorry be well d SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- URL: http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
u take away the technicalities? If you don't see anything, it just seems like you may be missing some of the tools needed to be able to see. ahh.. sorry, this was me being dumb, I didn't read that as linked to the previous line... i guess you mean if i take away RSS et al I won;t see anything? well, that would be a valid point if we were talking about the whole concept of 'rocketboom', but we're not are we. we're just talking about the moving pictures in the frame. I'm giving up on this argument, it seems that these days it is impossible to criticise RB, they can obviously do no wrong. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
I'm giving up on this argument, it seems that these days it is impossible to criticise RB, they can obviously do no wrong. You're not an exception to the rule Duncan. It's just that most people with the same opinion just don't bother speaking out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Ok, ok, give me a few days. I'll write it up for you in a way that wont be offensive or defensive (I admit to being overly offensive and defensive at the same time). Most of these kinds of criticisms stem from little to no research in the history of the weblog. Rocketboom is a quenisential videoblog. So are personal videoblogs. All of this is a very different format than TV. Stand by, I'll spell it out for you from at least one perspective and you will be able to see how we fit together instead of trying to tare us apart or say that it's something different. Most important to me in particular, in everything that is going on, is intent. That's why I would say Mobuzz, as a Rocketboom copycat, is shit because their intent is like a commercial factory in the elements they choose to emulate with. As long as Public Eye's intent is sincere, I hope they flourish and I am flattered that they are trying to emulate our setup. BTW, almost every blog on blogger or type-pad is just a clone of each other in this way as well, if thats how you stand to look at it. What you are seeing that has changed though is that we are doing what we want to do and our intent is very much like the intent of any weblogger who presents commentary on the the world. Plenty of ideas adopted from the old with plenty of ideas for the new. As for any counter behind the claim that we are able to do whatever we want, of course we can not do illegal activity. That's not relevant to what we can do that you can't do on TV. Relatively speaking, if its legal in the world, we can do that. TV has its own more narrow set of rules and requirements. On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Richard Bennett-Forrest wrote: I'm giving up on this argument, it seems that these days it is impossible to criticise RB, they can obviously do no wrong. You're not an exception to the rule Duncan. It's just that most people with the same opinion just don't bother speaking out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
Irish Hermit wrote: 2. Vlogs are nothing more than homemade television on the internet. Get over it folks. I've been around too long to think of it as nothing more than another installment in a long line of the next great thing that will change how we all communicate. Email and webpages with hypertext were monumental changes. Blogs and vlogs are just adding an already existing technology to webpages. Laptops will replace the cumbersome television console in the middle of the living room. Ipods and other small players will become the Dick Tracy writstwatch tv's we've been waiting for. But at the end of the day it's still television. I guess it's a matter of definition... I obviously don't agree with your definition of 'television' which to me requires licenses, towers, lots of staff, advertisers, lawyers, sizable audiences, etc... Personally I consider email and blogs giant leaps in how we communicate. I think this discussion right here is proof of that. 3. To those who say the difference here is that no one can tell us what to say: That's not true. There are plenty of laws on libel, slander, pornography, national defence, and copyright that limit what you can say on your vlog. Most ISP have limits in their terms of service on things like hate speech. You can't do anything you want. Ok, maybe 'no one can tell us what to say' is a little too literal. It's more like 'I don't have to base what I can say off of what will piss off the advertisers, my boss, or get my license revoked' Most television aims to please the advertisers and audience. Today most videoblogs do not have these concerns. If you think videoblogs are the same as television, why bother watching them? Can't you just watch tv and get all the same stuff? Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Pete Prodoehl wrote:Irish Hermit wrote: 2. Vlogs are nothing more than homemade television on the internet. Get over it folks. I've been around too long to think of it as nothing more than another installment in a long line of the "next great thing" that will change how we all communicate. Email and webpages with hypertext were monumental changes. Blogs and vlogs are just adding an already existing technology to webpages. Laptops will replace the cumbersome television console in the middle of the living room. Ipods and other small players will become the Dick Tracy writstwatch tv's we've been waiting for. But at the end of the day it's still television. I guess it's a matter of definition... I obviously don't agree with your definition of 'television' which to me requires licenses, towers, lots of staff, advertisers, lawyers, sizable audiences, etc...Personally I consider email and blogs giant leaps in how we communicate. I think this discussion right here is proof of that.I'm probably foolish to wade in here, but I'll do it tentatively. I'll issue the disclaimer that I know far less about this than a lot of the other people participating in this discussion. I had to google McLuhan.There is "video" and "television." Television was the first real broadcast video medium available to us (do we want to count Edison's moving pictures?). It requires licenses, towers, lots of staff, advertisers, lawyers and the rest. It is extremely expensive, but it came to dominate the way we talk about video.To a great extent the content broadcast using television is dictated by the medium. The medium is expensive, so the content must be of a type that can garner a large audience. It has to appeal, generally speaking, to a lowest common denominator.The same thing was true of text. Books and newspapers were really expensive to publish, pamphlets less so but still expensive. The Web drastically reduced the cost of getting a text message out the door and into people's minds... the blog represents the next step (the ultimate step?) in the cheapening (in a good way, I mean "it's getting less expensive" and not "less good") of textual communication.As the text blog was to the newspaper, magazine or pamphlet (maybe more appropriately the Xerox'd 'zine) the video blog is and should be to television, FedEx'd VHS tapes and public access television.So there is clearly a difference between the formats, but in the end it's about one thing: delivering a moving picture to some number of people efficiently. For videoblogs "some number" can be much smaller than for television. Which is fantastic.I'm ignoring, by the way, the social factors of the different mediums -- they're fascinating, and pertinent, but I've already gone on long enough. Comments, trackbacks, quoting, participatory media, oh my!3. To those who say the difference here is that no one can tell us what to say: That's not true. There are plenty of laws on libel, slander, pornography, national defence, and copyright that limit what you can say on your vlog. Most ISP have limits in their terms of service on things like "hate speech". You can't do anything you want.Ok, maybe 'no one can tell us what to say' is a little too literal. It's more like 'I don't have to base what I can say off of what will piss off the advertisers, my boss, or get my license revoked' Most television aims to please the advertisers and audience. Today most videoblogs do not have these concerns.If you think videoblogs are the same as television, why bother watching them? Can't you just watch tv and get all the same stuff?Is watching a vlog on a television "watching tv" or "watching a videoblog" or "watching video" or what?Yours,Mike YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:31:23 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another important part of bloggy text is that it's hypertext, ie. any bit can be a link to somewhere else. Rocketboom doesn't work like that either. Yes it does. Thats one of the special qualities that makes it different than TV. We link to the content that we discuss. This is not embedded in the video at this time, but the video alone is not the videoblog. The blog is there too. Exactly. That's why I said the video content parts weren't bloggy. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
So what are some examples of bloggy content, under your seemingly unusal, extremist and militant definition? On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:53 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote: On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:31:23 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another important part of bloggy text is that it's hypertext, ie. any bit can be a link to somewhere else. Rocketboom doesn't work like that either. Yes it does. Thats one of the special qualities that makes it different than TV. We link to the content that we discuss. This is not embedded in the video at this time, but the video alone is not the videoblog. The blog is there too. Exactly. That's why I said the video content parts weren't bloggy. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:04:42 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what are some examples of bloggy content, under your seemingly unusal, extremist and militant definition? What did I do to deserve that kind of phrasing? You were all up in arms about naming rocketboom 'new media'. I'm just trying to point out that as far as new media go rocketboom is pretty conservative new media in the sense that the video content is not made up of new media. The 'new' coming from the content around the video on the entry's location. If we see 'videoblog' as the fusion of blog and video, you obviously have to have something from both. But it varies how much any given blogger takes from both. It's not a question of 'either/or', but a question 'to which degree...'. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
So give an example. Is there anyone out there now who has a videoblog and post's videobloggy posts? Can you give a link and describe what sets it apart? On Oct 26, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote: On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:04:42 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what are some examples of bloggy content, under your seemingly unusal, extremist and militant definition? What did I do to deserve that kind of phrasing? You were all up in arms about naming rocketboom 'new media'. I'm just trying to point out that as far as new media go rocketboom is pretty conservative new media in the sense that the video content is not made up of new media. The 'new' coming from the content around the video on the entry's location. If we see 'videoblog' as the fusion of blog and video, you obviously have to have something from both. But it varies how much any given blogger takes from both. It's not a question of 'either/or', but a question 'to which degree...'. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:36:16 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So give an example. Is there anyone out there now who has a videoblog and post's videobloggy posts? Can you give a link and describe what sets it apart? As for pointing out of the blog there are time-based hyperlinks. Such as Steve Garfield With Added Links URL: http://solitude.dk/archives/20041123-2323/ - I have more of that type spread over my own blog. Adrian Miles have more complex ways of referencing outside sources and providing links within video. I think my next personal example will be a picture-in-picture quote where the little picture will be a link to whatever I'm quoting. Regarding the 'one thought' concept my current baby of the series about The Haberek at Human-Dog URL: http://www.human-dog.com/lab/?cat=7 . This story could have been told as one big video, but instead it was told as seven seperate entries. Each able to stand alone. Now I can reference that one subset I want to talk about. Lately I've also enjoyed Lorem Ipsum from Dave H URL: http://davemedia.blogspot.com/ for the same reasons. I use these as examples because it's easy to see how these could have been built as traditional video, not because the concept of 'one thought' only applies to series. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
It sounds like according to your definition of a videoblog then, the example you sited of Steve Garfield's would not really allow for defining his website as a videoblog, or even as having a videoblog component, but rather, he created one video that you host on your site which you call a single videoblog? In otherwods, Steve has not produced anything that could be defined as a videoblog, since this piece with the hyperlinks? And the reference to Human Dog - wouldn't it also then be correctly inferred from your definition that thehuman dog has a bit of content that passes for videoblogs but that most of what Chris posts that he calls a videoblog, is not? And also, it seems as though, for the most part then, 99.9% of the people on the yahoo videoblog list that say they have videoblogs do not, according to your definition. Am I making the right inferences? On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote: On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:36:16 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So give an example. Is there anyone out there now who has a videoblog and post's videobloggy posts? Can you give a link and describe what sets it apart? As for pointing out of the blog there are time-based hyperlinks. Such as Steve Garfield With Added Links URL: http://solitude.dk/archives/20041123-2323/ - I have more of that type spread over my own blog. Adrian Miles have more complex ways of referencing outside sources and providing links within video. I think my next personal example will be a picture-in-picture quote where the little picture will be a link to whatever I'm quoting. Regarding the 'one thought' concept my current baby of the series about The Haberek at Human-Dog URL: http://www.human-dog.com/lab/?cat=7 . This story could have been told as one big video, but instead it was told as seven seperate entries. Each able to stand alone. Now I can reference that one subset I want to talk about. Lately I've also enjoyed Lorem Ipsum from Dave H URL: http://davemedia.blogspot.com/ for the same reasons. I use these as examples because it's easy to see how these could have been built as traditional video, not because the concept of 'one thought' only applies to series. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Oct 26, 2005, at 7:04 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: And also, it seems as though, for the most part then, 99.9% of the people on the yahoo videoblog list that say they have videoblogs do not, according to your definition. What he's said about that in the past is that most of us are practicing a lower form of videoblogging. At least that's the way I understand what he's said. I do believe he makes some valid and important points but I also think he puts too much emphasis on what he terms bloggy video. As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part. Maybe if more people practiced that kind of videoblogging it would be widely seen as defining it. Thus my whole thing about quit typing about what you think a videoblog is and go make a videoblog about what you think a videoblog is. Give us examples. Lots of examples. Compelling examples. Pretty soon we'll have lots of examples of television as video podcasts. -- Verdi URL: http://michaelverdi.com/ URL: http://freevlog.org/ URL: http://node101.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:04:47 +0200, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I making the right inferences? No, damnit. You didn't pay attention. I said this is NOT a case of either/or. It's NOT about this is a videoblog and this is not a videoblog. It's a case of to which degree is this videobloggy. It's a continuum. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Public Eye - West Coast RocketBoom Clone
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:08:21 +0200, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we've been collectively defining videoblogging by practicing it for a while now it seems to me that the highly granular, hyper-texty video that Andreas holds in high regard is only a small part of videoblogging - and it's not the main part. But it's the most interesting part. :o) - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
