Re: [Videolib] more on World Cat
Nahum, There are two different issues. Dorcas responded to the idea that the copy in question had been sold to someone or some place. As such it subject to the right of first sale and buyer can donate the copy wherever they wish, HOWEVER neither streaming nor public performance rights could be included. Those are special rights which only the rights holder can sell. That is American Copyright law. It gets more complicated with copies sent to festivals or others as screeners. In the old days libraries did generally reject such donations and you certainly can appeal to the library that appears to have gotten a copy that way that it was a screener you were never paid for and they are taking advantage of independent distributor but that is a question of ethics not law. If you want to avoid this in the future than you need to have a contract with those you send screeners to explicitly forbidding them from donating them. It would be advisable to require them to return them though that is a lot of work. You can't just do this by stating it on the screener, the easiest way would be to require those you send a screners to, to send an email explicitly stating they won't donate or give the copy to any other party. This is a contract and could be enforced. On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM, nahum laufer lauf...@netvision.net.ilwrote: Thanks Anthony, Jessica and others that answered my mail It doesn't help much so: Dear Dorcas Haller Rhode Island Community College My slogan is I trust you, trust me. Is it your library that received 500 DVDs from RIFF including 2 titles from us 'The Darien Dilemma Rafting to Bombay? I don't see the logic in your answer. Yes I sell mainly to libraries, I don't want to sell for private use for it is not worthwhile yet I make exceptions.* Why I don't see the logic is. If you can resell the DVD (or donate) Why not donate PPR, why not sell the DVD to your next door cinema hall screening to a fee paying public ? or maybe to your favorite channel TV? In my logic there is no difference, on every private sale invoice is stated for private personal Home Use. So selling or donating to a library is a break of trust, and we loose $200-$250 the difference from first sale to library sale. The issue of Previews is even less understood by me, we have to send previews otherwise who will know us. I don't send unsolicited DVD previews, when I send I always state I'm sending you a preview. Our film One Day After Peace has already been screened at 60 film festivals (more coming up) and a very special screening at United Nations Headquarters in New-York, to reach such number of festivals I have sent submissions to over 150 festivals, each received 1-3 previews, it seems I trust people to much, I can find a lawyer that will write a long statement yet I'm sure that Rhode Island International Film Festival will find a loophole and give away the DVDs, Today I received a request to submit to this festival it went straight into the dustbin. Festivals are important for us, No Library will buy a Doco-film that hasn't been accepted by no Festival and didn't get any prizes. In my Logic DVDs are not books, Libraries and private people buy books at the same price but for Films there is a tier system of prices, for we are selling is not 1 dollar empty DVD but a film, not a piece of metal but screening rights .that justifies the tier system. * With The Darien Dilemma I make exceptions, this week a man from Hungary told me his Grandparents mother were passengers on the Darien, A person from England his father was in the Kindertransport, but his grandparents perished in Kladovo, another person's father was a sailor on the Darien all wanted to know the saga so I sold them a private copy, or Yehuda Arazi from California grandson of the original Yehuda Arazi depicted in the film I sent him a present DVD. I did not get requests from private people not connected with the Darien Saga. www.thedariendilemma.com/ So you see I'm not complaining I just don't understand the logic , I will continue to sell to libraries even to private people for I believe 99.9% are trustworthy and respect copyrights as we do. Cheers Nahum Laufer http://onedayafterpeace.com/index.php http://docsforeducation.com/ Sales Docs for Education Erez Laufer Films Holland st 10 Afulla 18371 Israel Did you sell it? (Do you *only* sell to libraries?) Once you've sold it, the owner (buyer) can do what s/he wants with it -- keep it, give it away, or discard it. If I buy a book, it is *my* property. I can keep it, I can donate it to a library, I can give it to a friend, I can throw it away. Even if you only sell your films to libraries, a library may decide at a later date to withdraw the film from its collection. It is conceivable that the library may ask if another library is interested in having it before getting rid of it completely. I don't see how you can expect to control your
Re: [Videolib] more on World Cat
Nahum, I misspoke when I summarized the law. When you sell a copy, your right to control how the buyer disposes of that particular copy is exhausted. However, other rights remain with you. The buyer does *not* get the right to make copies of the DVD, show it in public or on TV, or adapt it in some way. You control those rights. If you licensed PPR with the DVD, that license should specify whether the license is transferable or not. If it is not transferable, it cannot be given away or resold etc. It is a contract to which, presumably, the purchasing institution or individual agreed at the time of sale. The physical DVD can be given away or loaned. You can slap all the labels you want on it that say for private home use only but it is still subject to first sale (including loans or even rentals) and fair use. The buyer and any subsequent legal owner, have rights of fair use. For example, they could quote a bit of dialogue in a written review, or refer to factual material contained in the film, citing the source. If the DVD is not copy-protected, they could rip an image or a brief segment for purposes of illustration. Also, they could show the entire film to a class. I realize you are frustrated because you believe very deeply that you ought to have the right to charge more to an institution which will allow many people to borrow the DVD and watch it at home, or watch it in a group in a class. However, American law allows libraries to lend any legally made copy they acquire, and schools to show any legally made copy in the classroom. They do not need any kind of license to do these things, and the right to do them is not changed by your saying that you want them to pay more for them. The tiered pricing system does not have to do with a difference between books and DVDs; in fact, there is a tiered pricing system for scholarly journals, which charge libraries a lot more for a subscription. The difference is between media that can make a lot of money by selling lots of copies for a smaller profit, and media that has a small market and needs to make a good profit on each sale. A Hollywood film may cost $200,000,000 to make, but when it becomes available on DVD the library can buy a copy for $25, just like everybody else. Your film may have cost much less to make but your budget model depends on being able to sell X number of copies for $250 each to libraries, so the libraries have to include that amount in their budgets if they want to buy your films. And of course the library would probably have your film than 10 Spiderman films at $25 each. But you can't blame a librarian for being delighted to have some expensive documentaries donated to the library. As Jessica pointed out, if you keep track of the copies you send for previews, and arrange to have them returned, you will know those copies are not being used in ways you don't intend. Judy Shoaf VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] more on World Cat
FYI Nahum a short follow up. It really is not that complicated nor will you need a lawyer to protect your films but you will need to put in some more work. Since your market is exclusively festivals and institutions it should be worth it. When you send a screener to a festival, potential buyer or whoever you would send them to, insist on an email (or if possible a fax) from someone in authority ( programmer, head, NOT intern) stating something like We agree to return or physically this copy of X after we have viewed/ programmed it It will not leave or physical control and it will not be given, sold or transferred to any other party. If a festival or potential buyer has a problem with that then I would not send them a screener. I would also recommend significantly watermarked copies when you sent screeners. It may not protect you legally but most libraries would not want them and would know very clearly that this copy was not intended for library use. On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM, nahum laufer lauf...@netvision.net.ilwrote: Thanks Anthony, Jessica and others that answered my mail It doesn't help much so: Dear Dorcas Haller Rhode Island Community College My slogan is I trust you, trust me. Is it your library that received 500 DVDs from RIFF including 2 titles from us 'The Darien Dilemma Rafting to Bombay? I don't see the logic in your answer. Yes I sell mainly to libraries, I don't want to sell for private use for it is not worthwhile yet I make exceptions.* Why I don't see the logic is. If you can resell the DVD (or donate) Why not donate PPR, why not sell the DVD to your next door cinema hall screening to a fee paying public ? or maybe to your favorite channel TV? In my logic there is no difference, on every private sale invoice is stated for private personal Home Use. So selling or donating to a library is a break of trust, and we loose $200-$250 the difference from first sale to library sale. The issue of Previews is even less understood by me, we have to send previews otherwise who will know us. I don't send unsolicited DVD previews, when I send I always state I'm sending you a preview. Our film One Day After Peace has already been screened at 60 film festivals (more coming up) and a very special screening at United Nations Headquarters in New-York, to reach such number of festivals I have sent submissions to over 150 festivals, each received 1-3 previews, it seems I trust people to much, I can find a lawyer that will write a long statement yet I'm sure that Rhode Island International Film Festival will find a loophole and give away the DVDs, Today I received a request to submit to this festival it went straight into the dustbin. Festivals are important for us, No Library will buy a Doco-film that hasn't been accepted by no Festival and didn't get any prizes. In my Logic DVDs are not books, Libraries and private people buy books at the same price but for Films there is a tier system of prices, for we are selling is not 1 dollar empty DVD but a film, not a piece of metal but screening rights .that justifies the tier system. * With The Darien Dilemma I make exceptions, this week a man from Hungary told me his Grandparents mother were passengers on the Darien, A person from England his father was in the Kindertransport, but his grandparents perished in Kladovo, another person's father was a sailor on the Darien all wanted to know the saga so I sold them a private copy, or Yehuda Arazi from California grandson of the original Yehuda Arazi depicted in the film I sent him a present DVD. I did not get requests from private people not connected with the Darien Saga. www.thedariendilemma.com/ So you see I'm not complaining I just don't understand the logic , I will continue to sell to libraries even to private people for I believe 99.9% are trustworthy and respect copyrights as we do. Cheers Nahum Laufer http://onedayafterpeace.com/index.php http://docsforeducation.com/ Sales Docs for Education Erez Laufer Films Holland st 10 Afulla 18371 Israel Did you sell it? (Do you *only* sell to libraries?) Once you've sold it, the owner (buyer) can do what s/he wants with it -- keep it, give it away, or discard it. If I buy a book, it is *my* property. I can keep it, I can donate it to a library, I can give it to a friend, I can throw it away. Even if you only sell your films to libraries, a library may decide at a later date to withdraw the film from its collection. It is conceivable that the library may ask if another library is interested in having it before getting rid of it completely. I don't see how you can expect to control your product once you have sold it. The only way you can do that is not to sell it. Dorcas Haller Librarian/Professor/Department Chair Community College of Rhode Island Library One Hilton Street, Providence, RI 02905 dhal...@ccri.edu Phone: 401-455-6085 Fax: 401-455-6087
Re: [Videolib] more on World Cat
Dear Nahum, Rhode Island may be a little state but we do have more than one institution of higher education. Granted, they all have similar names. I work at the Community College of Rhode Island (CCRI). The University of Rhode Island (URI) was the library that received the large donation of films from RIIFF (Rhode Island International Film Festival). While URI may have received your two films in that donation, I can tell you they do not appear in the library's catalog, and are probably not available for borrowing or showing publicly. You say your slogan is I trust you, trust me, but apparently you don't really mean it, if you spend time checking up on who has a copy of your films via WorldCat. Perhaps, like Reagan, your motto is really Trust but verify? You ask a good question about the transfer of the PPR. If one library has bought a film from you, with PPR, and then withdraws that film from its collection and transfers it to another library -- this could happen in a library consortium, for example -- do the performance rights transfer, too? They have been paid for, haven't they? I don't know the answer to this, I'm just speculating. Perhaps it would be necessary to state in the sales agreement that the PPR are not transferable? Furthermore, you say, ... on every private sale invoice is stated for private personal Home Use. So selling or donating to a library is a break of trust Here at CCRI (and, no doubt, other libraries), we have a few thousand films on DVD and VHS, both feature films and documentaries. We lend them, including the ones that have been donated, for private personal Home Use. We do not lend them to movie theatres, or to student groups for parties. If someone wants to borrow one of our films to show to publicly, we advise them about securing performance rights. I'm not sure I understand your belief that libraries are lending out their films for public performance. Surely, if you want to make sure your preview films aren't donated to libraries (or private persons) after a film festival, all you have to do is request that the films in question be returned to you after the festival? Dusty Haller Dorcas Haller Librarian/Professor/Department Chair Community College of Rhode Island Library One Hilton Street, Providence, RI 02905 dhal...@ccri.edu Phone: 401-455-6085 Fax: 401-455-6087 -Original Message- From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of nahum laufer Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:31 PM To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu Subject: [Videolib] more on World Cat Thanks Anthony, Jessica and others that answered my mail It doesn't help much so: Dear Dorcas Haller Rhode Island Community College My slogan is I trust you, trust me. Is it your library that received 500 DVDs from RIFF including 2 titles from us 'The Darien Dilemma Rafting to Bombay? I don't see the logic in your answer. Yes I sell mainly to libraries, I don't want to sell for private use for it is not worthwhile yet I make exceptions.* Why I don't see the logic is. If you can resell the DVD (or donate) Why not donate PPR, why not sell the DVD to your next door cinema hall screening to a fee paying public ? or maybe to your favorite channel TV? In my logic there is no difference, on every private sale invoice is stated for private personal Home Use. So selling or donating to a library is a break of trust, and we loose $200-$250 the difference from first sale to library sale. The issue of Previews is even less understood by me, we have to send previews otherwise who will know us. I don't send unsolicited DVD previews, when I send I always state I'm sending you a preview. Our film One Day After Peace has already been screened at 60 film festivals (more coming up) and a very special screening at United Nations Headquarters in New-York, to reach such number of festivals I have sent submissions to over 150 festivals, each received 1-3 previews, it seems I trust people to much, I can find a lawyer that will write a long statement yet I'm sure that Rhode Island International Film Festival will find a loophole and give away the DVDs, Today I received a request to submit to this festival it went straight into the dustbin. Festivals are important for us, No Library will buy a Doco-film that hasn't been accepted by no Festival and didn't get any prizes. In my Logic DVDs are not books, Libraries and private people buy books at the same price but for Films there is a tier system of prices, for we are selling is not 1 dollar empty DVD but a film, not a piece of metal but screening rights .that justifies the tier system. * With The Darien Dilemma I make exceptions, this week a man from Hungary told me his Grandparents mother were passengers on the Darien, A person from England his father was in the Kindertransport, but his grandparents perished in Kladovo, another person's father was a sailor on the Darien all
