RE: Vihuela stringing
What exactly is a 'vihuela de Flandes'? It only plays Josquin? Rob -Original Message- From: Lex Eisenhardt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 May 2005 07:56 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Vihuela Net Subject: Re: Vihuela stringing As far as I know, the evidence for unison stringing is sparse, to say the least. John Ward's (1955) PhD thesis makes some statement to the effect that unisons were used and this has become established fact, even though I have never seen the evidence (if any) on which he based this assertion. Pisador's tuning instructions imply a unison 4th course, but say nothing about the rest. Bermudo: 'Suelen poner a la quarta de la guitarra otra cuerda, que se llama requinta. No se, si quando este nombre pusieron a la tal cuerda: formava con la dicha quarta un diapente, que es quinta perfecta: y por esto tomo nombre de requinta. Ahora no tienen este temple: mas forman ambas cuerdas una octava: segun tiene el laud, o vihuela fe Flandes. Este instrumento teniendo los tres o quatro ordenes de cuerdas dobladas, que forman entre si octavas: dizen tener las cuerdas requintas.' Why only this 'vihuela from the Netherlands', was it maybe stringed diffent from the one from Spain? L. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Vihuela stringing
It is supposed to be a lute. L. What exactly is a 'vihuela de Flandes'? It only plays Josquin? Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Vihuela stringing
As I understand it the laud and vihuela de Flandes are different names for the same thing. He is calling the laud a vihuela de Flandes because it was played by Flemish musicians of whom there were many at the Spanish Court. But I may be wrong... Monica - Original Message - From: Lex Eisenhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Vihuela Net vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Vihuela stringing As far as I know, the evidence for unison stringing is sparse, to say the least. John Ward's (1955) PhD thesis makes some statement to the effect that unisons were used and this has become established fact, even though I have never seen the evidence (if any) on which he based this assertion. Pisador's tuning instructions imply a unison 4th course, but say nothing about the rest. Bermudo: 'Suelen poner a la quarta de la guitarra otra cuerda, que se llama requinta. No se, si quando este nombre pusieron a la tal cuerda: formava con la dicha quarta un diapente, que es quinta perfecta: y por esto tomo nombre de requinta. Ahora no tienen este temple: mas forman ambas cuerdas una octava: segun tiene el laud, o vihuela fe Flandes. Este instrumento teniendo los tres o quatro ordenes de cuerdas dobladas, que forman entre si octavas: dizen tener las cuerdas requintas.' Why only this 'vihuela from the Netherlands', was it maybe stringed diffent from the one from Spain? L. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Baroque guitar strings advice wanted
Mine also has a string length of about 61cms. It is strung with Kurschner gut as follows 1st courseD 2046 2nd course D 2056 3rd courseD 2066 4th courseD 2050 D 2100 (bourdon) 5th courseCurrently Sofracob 0 .600 I think (not sure why). I only use a bourdon on the 4th course as I have never found a suitable string for a bourdon on the 5th, perhaps because of the shorter string length. Most baroque guitars have longer string lengths, but mine, which is based on an instrument by Tessler in the RCM, was made small on purpose because a longer one was too much for this elderly lady to manage! High octave strings are essential on the 4th and 5th courses if you are going to do anything more than strum as the music doesn't make sense without them. I'm surprised you have a problem with the high octave string on the 4th course. I have always found the bourdon problematic. After the first couple of weeks the gut bourdon deteriorates and it seems impossible to get it in tune or to tune it to a true octave with the treble string. It just sounds dead. I have even though of leaving it off and going fully re-entrant. They are the most expensive and I can't afford to replace every fortnight...I did once try an overwound bourdon, which does sound more in tune, but it was over-resonant (just like it says in Diderot's dictionary!) and dominated the other strings! I have no difficulty in tuning the first course to e' at modern concert pitch in spite of the short string length and it often slips down a semitone to d# if I don't use a tuning fork. Don't know if that is any help. Monica - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:28 PM Subject: Baroque guitar strings advice wanted Any suggestions for stringing a Baroque guitar with a string length of 61 cms? It's presently strung with nylon strings from Kuerschner. The fourth and fifth courses both have high and low A and D strings and sound seriously schizophrenic. The high octave just doesn't sound right, especially on the fourth course. I'd consider gut - if it's not too expensive. And maybe high octaves on both fourth and fifth. Thanks - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Fw: S. de Murcia
- Original Message - From: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: S. de Murcia At 01:12 PM 5/12/2005, Monica Hall wrote: How about - Santiago de Murcia never went to Mexico (there is actually no evidence he did). I think he stayed at home in Madrid teaching Andriani's umpteen children to play the guitar... Yeah, that's good controversy. One could add to that - 1. He may have been related to Gabriel and Antonio de Murcia but this has never been proved! 2.He was probably born earlier than 1682 - would have been too young to be the Queen's Maestro de guitarra in 1701otherwise. 3.He was never a choir boy in the Chapel Royal 4.He never studied music with Guerau or Antonio Literes 5.He didn't accompany Philip V to Italy in 1702. Philip and Maria Luisa were married in Catalunya in September 1701. When Philip went to Italy, Maria Luisa stayed home and proceded to Madrid. If Murcia was in her service he presumably went with her. Can't have taught her the guitar otherwise! They didn't have correspondence courses in those days. 6.Last, but not least, Julian Marshall didn't purchase Passacalles y obras in Puebla in 1882! Nobody know where or when he purchased it, but he sold it to the British Library in1882!! So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica At 03:46 PM 5/12/2005, Martin Shepherd wrote: As far as I know, the evidence for unison stringing is sparse, to say the least. John Ward's (1955) PhD thesis makes some statement to the effect that unisons were used and this has become established fact, even though I have never seen the evidence (if any) on which he based this assertion. Pisador's tuning instructions imply a unison 4th course, but say nothing about the rest. This is even better. I wish I could answer. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: S. de Murcia
It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
There would be many possible movies about lute-players and their adventures. What was about Rizzo who was said to have a close relationship to Mary? Dowland as predesessor of James Bond? The life of the english Gaultier as adventure? Are there some vihuelanista-stories to add? With a tiny bit of fantasy I could make a fantastic script out of Corbetta's life (must be a french movie because it wouldn't have a happy end) ... Best wishes Thomas Lex Eisenhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] am 13.05.2005 11:14:08 An:Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED], vihuela vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Kopie: Thema: Re: S. de Murcia It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium.
Re: S. de Murcia
Starring Penelope Cruz as Maria Luisa and Nicholas Cage as Santiago of course. In my version they fall in love (Luis I and Ferdinand VI were really Santiago's children). When Maria Luisa dies of consumption a la Mimi in Boheme (actually she did!) Santiago went off to Mexico. I haven't written the sequel yet. Monica - Original Message - From: Lex Eisenhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: Re: S. de Murcia It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: S. de Murcia
But wait! You forgot the happy ending. He's rescued by a passing Spanish treasure fleet and transported back to Spain. As soon as his invention is presented at court as a vihuela de mano, the Inquisition has him (and it) burned alive for nincompoopery. Simultaneously, on the desert island, a previously inactive volcano erupts. The ensuing inferno obliterates everything on the island, removing all traces of the newly invented musical instrument from existence. Now, that's a happy ending! -Original Message- From: bill kilpatrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:36 AM To: Monica Hall; Lex Eisenhardt Cc: vihuela Subject: Re: S. de Murcia --- Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Starring Penelope Cruz as Maria Luisa and Nicholas Cage as Santiago of course. In my version they fall in love (Luis I and Ferdinand VI were really Santiago's children). When Maria Luisa dies of consumption a la Mimi in Boheme (actually she did!) Santiago went off to Mexico. I haven't written the sequel yet .. where he gets ship wrecked on a desert island, saved by a cannibal princess and teaches the locals how to make plucky little cordafones. he neglects to tell them what they're called, however. and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly... - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
S. de Murcia
Oh dear! I seem to have sent everyone running out of the list again. But think of it this way: A dark ending leaves room for a sequel. Back on topic(?): When the Spanish colonized the new world, did they pack light? Would they have carried any musical instruments, or were they so militaristic that the finer things had no place in the baggage train of the first wave? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
I'm not sure spaniards of the 16th century considered music as luxury. They must have had a different approach to what luxury is and what is necessary. The question could be: *if* one took a musical instrument with him would it be a vihuela? As far as I understand the vihuela would be rather played by the nobility and therefor the number of people who *could* have taken a vihuela with them would be very limited. To stress Jon's picture of the Master -movie: It would rather be recorders, drums in all forms and that kind of instruments played by the common sailors and soldiers. But I would *not* tell it impossible that the one or the other nobleman took his favorite instrument with him which also could have been a vihuela (although I doubt it would be considered practical for life on board). BUT: Later, when colonies were established I am rather sure that among the first things they imported from spain would have been musical instruments. There must have been records surviving telling us about what was ordered from the colonies. Did anyone make a research about that? Best wishes Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] am 13.05.2005 18:00:03 An:Garry Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'VihuelaList' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Kopie: Thema: Re: S. de Murcia When the Spanish colonized the new world, did they pack light? Would they have carried any musical instruments, or were they so militaristic that the finer things had no place in the baggage train of the first wave? Music is a luxury, and generally the thugs of the first wave are unlikely to have time for such a leisurely pursuit. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium.
