[VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence
Monica writes: 'Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses.' Also of course she might have added that he very clearly indicates octaves in the Avvertimenti (both in Italian AND French tablature) thus once again confirming fully re-entrant for his music. As a further aside, I like V's penchant for carefully controlled strumming (ie not 'thrashing') - clearly he had an advanced technique allowing him to exclude certain courses at will(partial strumming). Many examples such as second book: bottom of page 29 in the variatione on a ciaccona. I've previously suggested this was a well established practice by 1646 - at least for some if not for Colonna and Sanseverino. M. --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Stefano Landi To: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 8:32 We don't know which tuning predominated in the circles around Landi, for example. Well - we have some ideas. One of his contemporaries in Rome was Kapsberger, and it was from Kapsberger that Mersenne obtained his information about how the guitar was strung - i.e. with a fully re-entrant tuning. Kapsberger published two books of guitar music now lost. Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses. Kircher gives the re-entrant tuning in Musurgia Universalis printed in Rome 1650. And of course rather later Sanz also says that guitarists in Rome used the re-entrant tuning. Just straws in the wind.. From our XXIc position it is difficult to know exactly who used what tuning, or which composer was exposed to one way of tuning or the other. If one way of stringing is very usual among your friends or in your town there would be no reason to say anything about it. Therein lies the problem. If none of us can be certain a position of relativity is inevitable. The relativity is ours rather than theirs. It supposes that in the 17th century 'they' had a sort of relativism, with respect to the tuning and theoretical issues. The first attempts of Focarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the figures and voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a different picture. In what way? Even if this was so in what way is it relevant to what players did earlier? Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Indeed - he is also having his cake and eating it M --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 14:03 A P.S. Valdambrini's second book also includes some instructions on accompanying a bass line. There are a small number of places in these (on p.30) where he has written out chords in tablature and these would reproduce the bass line as written if there were bourdons - but not if the re-entrant tuning was used. There is a certain amount of virtual or visual harmony in all these things.Accompanying a bass line is about the art of the possible. The exercises illustrate what you can actually play but are not intended to be taken literally. Alternatively perhaps Valdambrini use a different method of stringing when accompanying. Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence Monica writes: 'Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses.' Also of course she might have added that he very clearly indicates octaves in the Avvertimenti (both in Italian AND French tablature) thus once again confirming fully re-entrant for his music. As a further aside, I like V's penchant for carefully controlled strumming (ie not 'thrashing') - clearly he had an advanced technique allowing him to exclude certain courses at will(partial strumming). Many examples such as second book: bottom of page 29 in the variatione on a ciaccona. I've previously suggested this was a well established practice by 1646 - at least for some if not for Colonna and Sanseverino. M. --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall [5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Stefano Landi To: Lex Eisenhardt [6]eisenha...@planet.nl Cc: Vihuelalist [7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 8:32 We don't know which tuning predominated in the circles around Landi, for example. Well - we have some ideas. One of his contemporaries in Rome was Kapsberger, and it was from Kapsberger that Mersenne obtained his information about how the guitar was strung - i.e. with a fully re-entrant tuning. Kapsberger published two books of guitar music now lost. Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses. Kircher gives the re-entrant tuning in Musurgia Universalis printed in Rome 1650. And of course rather later Sanz also says that guitarists in Rome used the re-entrant tuning. Just straws in the wind.. From our XXIc position it is difficult to know exactly who used what tuning, or which composer was exposed to one way of tuning or the other. If one way of stringing is very usual among your friends or in your town there would be no reason to say anything about it. Therein lies the problem. If none of us can be certain a position of relativity is inevitable. The relativity is ours rather than theirs. It supposes that in the 17th century 'they' had a sort of relativism, with respect to the tuning and theoretical issues. The first attempts of Focarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the figures and voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a different picture. In what way? Even if this was so in what way is it relevant to what players did earlier? Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
[VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Well I am not sure who is having the cake and who is eating it here. Lex said The first attempts of Foscarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the figures and voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a different picture. But Valdambrini's attempts around the same time give exactly the same picture but he evidently used the re-entrant tuning. What you see is not always what you get. Nor is the cake. Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence Indeed - he is also having his cake and eating it M --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 14:03 A P.S. Valdambrini's second book also includes some instructions on accompanying a bass line. There are a small number of places in these (on p.30) where he has written out chords in tablature and these would reproduce the bass line as written if there were bourdons - but not if the re-entrant tuning was used. There is a certain amount of virtual or visual harmony in all these things.Accompanying a bass line is about the art of the possible. The exercises illustrate what you can actually play but are not intended to be taken literally. Alternatively perhaps Valdambrini use a different method of stringing when accompanying. Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence Monica writes: 'Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses.' Also of course she might have added that he very clearly indicates octaves in the Avvertimenti (both in Italian AND French tablature) thus once again confirming fully re-entrant for his music. As a further aside, I like V's penchant for carefully controlled strumming (ie not 'thrashing') - clearly he had an advanced technique allowing him to exclude certain courses at will(partial strumming). Many examples such as second book: bottom of page 29 in the variatione on a ciaccona. I've previously suggested this was a well established practice by 1646 - at least for some if not for Colonna and Sanseverino. M. --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall [5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Stefano Landi To: Lex Eisenhardt [6]eisenha...@planet.nl Cc: Vihuelalist [7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 8:32 We don't know which tuning predominated in the circles around Landi, for example. Well - we have some ideas. One of his contemporaries in Rome was Kapsberger, and it was from Kapsberger that Mersenne obtained his information about how the guitar was strung - i.e. with a fully re-entrant tuning. Kapsberger published two books of guitar music now lost. Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning but clearly states that the instrument has no basses. Kircher gives the re-entrant tuning in Musurgia Universalis printed in Rome 1650. And of course rather later Sanz also says that guitarists in Rome used the re-entrant tuning. Just straws in the wind.. From our XXIc position it is difficult to know exactly who used what tuning, or which composer was exposed to one way of tuning or the other. If one way of stringing is very usual among your friends or in your town there would be no reason to say anything about it. Therein lies the problem. If none of us can be certain a position of relativity is inevitable. The relativity is ours rather than theirs. It supposes that in the 17th century 'they' had a sort of relativism, with respect to the tuning and theoretical issues. The first attempts of Focarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the figures and voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a different picture. In what way? Even if this was so in what way is it relevant to what
