[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes (such
as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs
substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar
As said, maybe we just have to agree to disagree..
rgds
Martyn
--- On Fri, 16/12/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu, Chris Despopoulos
despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, 16 December, 2011, 18:05
- Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson
[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Chris Despopoulos [2]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Chris.
Your observation that '...whether we call it bajo continuo per se,
it's consistent in my mind to consider alfabeto a realization
(stylized, perhaps) of the bass..', certainly coincides with my
view on
guitar basso continuo using alfabeto. And, it seems to me, reflects
Marini's position too.
Sorry - but I think that you are both mistaken. You seem to be trying
to argue that any form of accompaniment can be regarded as realizing a
bass line. Interpreting terminology and practice in this way is
meaningless.
A basso continuo is what is says it is - a continuous, clearly
identifiable bass line from which the accompaning intervals (rather
than triads) are calculated. Occasionally, as you say the notes, which
appear in the bass part may not always be reproduced exactly for
practical reasons, but there is always a clear bass part - not one
concealed or implied incidentally in a series of major and minor
triads.
It is probably true that because the baroque guitarists did think
solely in terms of basis triadic harmony that it had some influence in
the way that understanding of harmony developed in the early 17th
century.But that is a different matter.
Regards
Monica
--- On Fri, 16/12/11, Chris Despopoulos
[4]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
wrote:
From: Chris Despopoulos [5]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was:
Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Martyn Hodgson [6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Monica
Hall
[7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 16 December, 2011, 14:08
I thought one of the significant points of the period was a
transition
to harmonic vs voice thinking. And that the guitar was well
positioned, if not instrumental, within that transition. So
whether we
call it bajo continuo per se, it's consistent in my mind to
consider
alfabeto a realization (stylized, perhaps) of the bass.
Of course, the alfabeto can often oversimplify that realization. I
look at it much the way I look at the song books you can get today,
with guitar chords that gloss over interesting harmonic
progressions.
The same music played by the 8th graders I taught would sound very
different from what I would choose to do.
One thing I hear almost everywhere I go is that by and large the
published guitar music is a performance suggestion, not writ.
Everybody I've worked with has blessed changes to fingering,
addition
or changes of notes, and encouraged improvisation. The Sanz book
is
viewed as a lesson book, not a book of pieces that are to be played
exactly as written, for example. With Roncali I was chastised for
not
improvising. So why would alfabetos be any different?But does
that
make them any less realizations of the bass? If we're talking
about
pre-harmonic thinking, where else would the alfabetos come from?
cud
__
From: Martyn Hodgson [9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Monica Hall [10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:41 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
It is a realisation of the bass line but, because of the
requirements
of the instrument, not always with the written bass part as the
lowest
note on the guitar: I guess we'll just have to agree to
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Dear Lex,
A particular commonly occurring situation requiring the bass line to be
realised on the theorbo higher than the upper melodic line is where the
tenor sings a notated e' (ie that on the lowest line of treble clef)
but sounding an octave lower (ie the e in the bass clef) and the BC
line has a low G# 6 (ie on bottom line of bass clef). If G natural is
also frequently required in the piece (as often found) then on
a theorbo in A (with 6 fingered courses as most usual historically)
there is no low G# and the player is obliged to take the bass an octave
higher - ie top space of the bass clef and thus higher than the
singer's note. The situation is much the same where the tenor has a d
and the theorbo BC is obliged to take a f# in the bass.
Other types of specific examples include Caccini's 'Reggami per pieta'
where the singer has a low F# which has to be played by the BC an
octave higher since there are necessary low F naturals elsewhere in the
piece.
Chromatic notes are solved in the same way: by putting odd notes (or
even an entire passage) up an octave - see Ballard 'Methode pour
apprendre theorbe' (1660) page 10 especially which gives examples
in staff notation and in tablature showing the necessary octave
transposition for chromatic notes.
rgds
Martyn
--- On Sat, 17/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Martyn Hodgson
hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 8:58
Dear Martyn,
Is there evidence for raising the bass on the theorbo, to even above
the
other voices? I understand that chromatic notes in the bass can be a
problem, but do we know how they solved that?
Lex
ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion
together
with your newest posts?
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes
(such
as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs
substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar
As said, maybe we just have to agree to disagree..
rgds
Martyn
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
That is all perfectly clear - but has absolutely nothing to do with playing
an alfabeto accompaniment - because the guitar is not going to try and
reproduce the bass part in any way.
You seem to be me to be confusing two unrelated sets of circumstances.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Dear Lex,
A particular commonly occurring situation requiring the bass line to be
realised on the theorbo higher than the upper melodic line is where the
tenor sings a notated e' (ie that on the lowest line of treble clef)
but sounding an octave lower (ie the e in the bass clef) and the BC
line has a low G# 6 (ie on bottom line of bass clef). If G natural is
also frequently required in the piece (as often found) then on
a theorbo in A (with 6 fingered courses as most usual historically)
there is no low G# and the player is obliged to take the bass an octave
higher - ie top space of the bass clef and thus higher than the
singer's note. The situation is much the same where the tenor has a d
and the theorbo BC is obliged to take a f# in the bass.
Other types of specific examples include Caccini's 'Reggami per pieta'
where the singer has a low F# which has to be played by the BC an
octave higher since there are necessary low F naturals elsewhere in the
piece.
Chromatic notes are solved in the same way: by putting odd notes (or
even an entire passage) up an octave - see Ballard 'Methode pour
apprendre theorbe' (1660) page 10 especially which gives examples
in staff notation and in tablature showing the necessary octave
transposition for chromatic notes.
rgds
Martyn
--- On Sat, 17/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Martyn Hodgson
hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 8:58
Dear Martyn,
Is there evidence for raising the bass on the theorbo, to even above
the
other voices? I understand that chromatic notes in the bass can be a
problem, but do we know how they solved that?
Lex
ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion
together
with your newest posts?
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes
(such
as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs
substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar
As said, maybe we just have to agree to disagree..
rgds
Martyn
--
References
1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Eh! This was in answer to a direct question about this one particular
matter from Lex! Not a continuation of your mail... I think you've
got confused - with respect,
Sorry - but I don't think so. You dragged in the theorbo which is
completely irrelevant when considering how to accompanying alfabeto songs.
You somehow seem to be trying to argue that the fact that on the theorbo
bass notes occasionally have to be displaced proves that there is a bass
part lurking amidst the alfabeto chords.
As an explanation as to why the theorbo does displace notes this is
helpful - but it is a red herring as far as the topic under discussion -
which started with Agazzari - is concerned.
And incidentally Corbetta's pieces in 1671 are not as far as we know
intended for
self accompaniment. He is not known to have been a singer and presumably
you don't sing one of the parts yourself when performing them.. or do
you?
As ever
Monica
rgds
M
--- On Sat, 17/12/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu, Lex Eisenhardt
eisenha...@planet.nl
Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 12:32
That is all perfectly clear - but has absolutely nothing to do with
playing
an alfabeto accompaniment - because the guitar is not going to try and
reproduce the bass part in any way.
You seem to be me to be confusing two unrelated sets of circumstances.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Lex Eisenhardt [2]eisenha...@planet.nl
Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Dear Lex,
A particular commonly occurring situation requiring the bass line
to be
realised on the theorbo higher than the upper melodic line is where
the
tenor sings a notated e' (ie that on the lowest line of treble
clef)
but sounding an octave lower (ie the e in the bass clef) and the BC
line has a low G# 6 (ie on bottom line of bass clef). If G natural
is
also frequently required in the piece (as often found) then on
a theorbo in A (with 6 fingered courses as most usual historically)
there is no low G# and the player is obliged to take the bass an
octave
higher - ie top space of the bass clef and thus higher than the
singer's note. The situation is much the same where the tenor has a
d
and the theorbo BC is obliged to take a f# in the bass.
Other types of specific examples include Caccini's 'Reggami per
pieta'
where the singer has a low F# which has to be played by the BC an
octave higher since there are necessary low F naturals elsewhere in
the
piece.
Chromatic notes are solved in the same way: by putting odd notes
(or
even an entire passage) up an octave - see Ballard 'Methode pour
apprendre theorbe' (1660) page 10 especially which gives
examples
in staff notation and in tablature showing the necessary octave
transposition for chromatic notes.
rgds
Martyn
--- On Sat, 17/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt [4]eisenha...@planet.nl
wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt [5]eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was:
Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Monica Hall [6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Martyn Hodgson
[7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 8:58
Dear Martyn,
Is there evidence for raising the bass on the theorbo, to even
above
the
other voices? I understand that chromatic notes in the bass can be
a
problem, but do we know how they solved that?
Lex
ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion
together
with your newest posts?
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1][9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Monica Hall [2][10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [3][11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes
(such
as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs
substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar
As said, maybe we just have to agree to
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Ah - I think I know what's happening - you've got the wrong end of the stick: I am glad you know what is happening. It all depends on which end of the stick one has got hold of. I'm not (and have not as far as I can see) suggesting that an alfabeto accompaniment necessarily converts into a bass line (ie the lowest sounding note in each chord would result in the bass line - even if we knew it) but the converse: that a bass line enables one to 'realise' a chordal accompaniment (eg alfabeto) on the guitar - not the same thing at all. I'll take your word for it - there isn't time to go back all over it. And, of course, songs with nothing other than alfabeto can't and therefore don't show single notes. It's only when mixed tablature becomes common that we could expect to start to see such realisations. That's quite different to say it's 'wrong' to consider the practice of inserting some bass notes if one has the bass and not just the alfabeto. It's almost as if one only saw the alfabeto dances in Calvi (1646) without noticing his intabulated dances later in the same book and concluded he never wrote in two parts. He didn't write either of them actually. He copied them from elsewhere. The alfabeto pieces are copied from Corbetta's 1639 book and the other pieces from an unidentified source probably not originally for guitar. They belong to two different traditions. And I haven't even got round to Valdambrini yet - he seems to exhibit a fine disregard for the precise octave of the bass in his cadential examples. But that is not relevant to earlier alfabeto accompaniments. And, no, I don't anywhere suggest that if one has a bass line AND the alfabeto one should always seek to amalgamate the two. But I certainly don't think the practice is prohibited by any early contemporary sources - hence my suggestion about the performance of the Grandi song which has both the alfabeto and the bass line... It is not a question of whether it is prohibited or not since we do not have any surviving instructions. It is a question of what was customary at the time the Grandi song appeared in print and earlier - as far as we can tell from surviving sources which include written out alfabeto accompaniments. These do not give any suggestion at all that any attempt was made to include the bass part. Monica With reference to Lex ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion together with your newest posts? I have deleted an endless stream of junk from the end of this message. I suppose we are all such incurable individualists on this list that we will never agree as to how we should reply to messages. But I wish that people would delete everything except the points they are responding to. Whatever may have been netiquette in the dim distant past seems to me irrelevant today. Remember that these messages are archived and if they are just a mess it is difficult to refer back to them for useful information. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Hello everyone-
I hope I'm going about this the right way, by just responding in the
thread rather than going back to individual messages from the last 24
hours.
Thanks very much to all who took the time to listen to recordings I've
posted. For those who may have missed that message, the link is:
[1]http://www.budroach.com/baroque_guitar.html?r=20111217024548
What I was hoping to garner was a sense of whether or not the simple
alfabeto strumming is considered to be a sufficient accompaniment for
songs from the 1620's, and the general opinion seems to be in the
affirmative. On this issue, Monica and I seem to be in agreement, but
others have introduced suggestions that, in my view, would partly
diminish my goal with this project, which is to recreate what a singer
from the period would have done.
Martyn's suggestion to follow the bass line in certain passages would,
I agree, be musically effective, but would also depart from a pure
alfabeto accompaniment. Of course, the odd 4-3 suspension is also a
version of that same departure, and I often do this, but I'm not
convinced that the block harmony of the guitar is the best vehicle for
switching bar to bar from a bass line role to block-ish harmonic
underpinning. The evidence for this can be found in Grandi's third
volume itself. Although titled Cantade et arie, there are 23 strophic
songs, and only one cantata at the end. Alfabeto is used for every
strophic song, but not the cantata, which incorporates the odd measure
of melodic material in the bass line. The role of the bass in this
piece is clearly different from in the songs, which makes it less
suitable for accompaniment by a lone guitar.
At the risk of tossing too many ideas into the mix, this also touches
on the notion of combining the alfabeto with the printed bass line. I
am intrigued by Alexander Dean's argument that the harmonic dissonance
that would be created (specifically at cadential points) by this
arrangement helped to formulate the evolution of later 17th-century
harmonic practice. However, it again is outside my specific goal of
presenting these songs as a self-accompanied singer.
And, finally, to perhaps drive everyone crazy with a topic that has
been discussed so much in recent threads, I would like to bring out
into the open what Lex has brought up privately- the use of bourdons
in this repertoire. (I can almost hear your groans of despair!) From
what I have read, both from sources and from opinions posted on this
site, it is uncertain that one single stringing option was embraced by
an entire region for an extended period of time (for my purposes, the
third decade of the 17th century). Since the case can be made for a
number of stringing options, I have chosen the one that sounds best to
my ear, which is a boudon on the fourth course only. The fuller sound
that results from a bourdon on the fifth course is very appealing in
the abstract, but I find it distracting that with every downward stroke
there is an implied bass line from that pesky but useful fifth course!
Yet for some reason a bourdon on the fourth course isn't nearly as
intrusive, giving the benefits of a fuller tone without the harmonic
implications that I don't believe the composer (in this case Grandi)
intended.
So those are my three cents. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Since I have been receiving the messages from the listserve I have been
struck by the passion you all bring to these subjects, and am thrilled
to be a part of the discussion! And to read it all while listening to
Lex's beautiful playing on his Canta Venetia recording is a great way
to spend an early Saturday afternoon.
Bud
--- On Sat, 12/17/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Received: Saturday, December 17, 2011, 10:35 AM
Ah - I think I know what's happening - you've got the wrong end of
the
stick:
I am glad you know what is happening. It all depends on which end of
the
stick one has got hold of.
I'm not (and have not as far as I can see) suggesting that an
alfabeto accompaniment necessarily converts into a bass line (ie
the
lowest sounding note in each chord would result in the bass line -
even
if we knew it) but the converse: that a bass line enables one to
'realise' a chordal accompaniment (eg alfabeto) on the guitar - not
the
same thing at all.
I'll take your word for it - there isn't time to go back all over it.
And, of course, songs with nothing other than alfabeto can't and
therefore
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
I personally don't want to argue this point. First because I'm not
qualified, and secondly because it's not really what I was saying.
Monica, you're absolutely right that by definition it's not continuous
bass when playing derived harmonies in the alfabeto. I was only
supposing that the harmonies are derived from the bass, and informed by
practice of bajo continuo. In that sense, it's a realization of
something, at any rate. And following on what I've read by Craig
Russell, it's possible to imagine that the guitar, limits, quirks, and
all, contributed to the development of harmonic thinking in this way.
__
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Lex Eisenhardt
eisenha...@planet.nl
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:32 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
That is all perfectly clear - but has absolutely nothing to do with
playing
an alfabeto accompaniment - because the guitar is not going to try and
reproduce the bass part in any way.
You seem to be me to be confusing two unrelated sets of circumstances.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Lex Eisenhardt [2]eisenha...@planet.nl
Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Dear Lex,
A particular commonly occurring situation requiring the bass line to
be
realised on the theorbo higher than the upper melodic line is where
the
tenor sings a notated e' (ie that on the lowest line of treble clef)
but sounding an octave lower (ie the e in the bass clef) and the BC
line has a low G# 6 (ie on bottom line of bass clef). If G natural
is
also frequently required in the piece (as often found) then on
a theorbo in A (with 6 fingered courses as most usual historically)
there is no low G# and the player is obliged to take the bass an
octave
higher - ie top space of the bass clef and thus higher than the
singer's note. The situation is much the same where the tenor has a
d
and the theorbo BC is obliged to take a f# in the bass.
Other types of specific examples include Caccini's 'Reggami per
pieta'
where the singer has a low F# which has to be played by the BC an
octave higher since there are necessary low F naturals elsewhere in
the
piece.
Chromatic notes are solved in the same way: by putting odd notes (or
even an entire passage) up an octave - see Ballard 'Methode pour
apprendre theorbe' (1660) page 10 especially which gives
examples
in staff notation and in tablature showing the necessary octave
transposition for chromatic notes.
rgds
Martyn
--- On Sat, 17/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt [4]eisenha...@planet.nl
wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt [5]eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was:
Return
to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
To: Monica Hall [6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Martyn Hodgson
[7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 8:58
Dear Martyn,
Is there evidence for raising the bass on the theorbo, to even above
the
other voices? I understand that chromatic notes in the bass can be a
problem, but do we know how they solved that?
Lex
ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion
together
with your newest posts?
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1][9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Monica Hall [2][10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [3][11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to
earlier
question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]}
Thanks Monica,
But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes
(such
as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs
substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar
As said, maybe we just have to agree to disagree..
rgds
Martyn
--
References
1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3.
