[VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start?
Again forgive my newness, but this sparks an interesting question for me. Is there a list of composers who had the fully reenterant tuning in mind/played that way? I'm understanding now it was a largely Italian choice, but what pieces/composers/players should I look to with this tuning? Thanks!!! :) Harlan On Feb 1, 2011, at 1:54 AM, "Monica Hall" wrote: > That's it. do what you think works best. You have my blessing... > > Monica > > - Original Message - From: "Chris Despopoulos" > > To: "Monica Hall" > Cc: "Vihuelalist" > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:37 AM > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? > > >> I definitely don't want to spark anything. I'm just looking for any >> obvious prohibitions to using a fully re-entrant tuning with Roncalli. >> For me, first indications are good. But I'm fairly unwashed... I take >> your statement that he says nothing, to mean that I should go with what >> feels good. That makes me feel young again! >> cud >>__ >> From: Monica Hall >> To: Chris Despopoulos >> Cc: Vihuelalist >> Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 3:25:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? >> Funny that it shouldn't have reached you before. I agree that the >> re-entrant tuning works perfectly for most of the repertoire. It is a >> misconception that the re-entrant tuning is somehow inadequate. >> As for Roncalli - as has already been pointed out he doesn't say >> anything at all on the subject. And as I have already said before I >> prefer the versions I have heard without a bordon on the 5th course. >> I think that the re-entrant tuning was probably the most widely used in >> Italy. >> But perhaps it is better not to spark off yet another discussion on >> this topic. (But I have already done so). >> Monica >> - Original Message - >> From: [1]Chris Despopoulos >> To: [2]Monica Hall >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? >> Ha! I found this in my SPAM folder for some reason. >> I do not disagree in principle with this compromise. I tried it out >> for Sanz, however, and for *my* taste and for the expectations I have >> built up from close to a year of playing with no bordones, I can't get >> a satisfactory sound for Sanz with the bordon on the 4th course. >> That's just me. >> Oh, and I'm spreading out to Roncalli now, and I'm pretty happy with >> the sound so far sin bordones. But again, that's just me. Of course, >> I wonder whether that's accurate, and hope to ask without starting a >> row. >> If I pick up Corbetta's La Guitarre Royale, I will of necessity add the >> 4th bordon... Thanks your informed understanding of the music. >> cud >>__ >> From: Monica Hall >> To: Harlan Glotzer >> Cc: Vihuelalist >> Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 5:37:23 PM >> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? >> As far as I am concerned a bourdon on the 4th course but not on the 5th >> is the answer to every maiden's prayer. It is compromise, and in the >> real world compromises are what work best. And I think we should >> re-christen it the "English" tuning because it is the tuning Corbetta >> intended for his La guitarre royale. He composed all the music in it >> whilst he was in England and dedicated it to good King Charles II >> Chris probably wont agree with me >> Whatever you do - enjoy. >> Monica >> - Original Message - From: "Harlan Glotzer" >> <[3]hargloresea...@gmail.com> >> To: "Chris Despopoulos" <[4]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> >> Cc: "Monica Hall" <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; "Vihuelalist" >> <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:11 PM >> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? >> Thank you both for you speedy and detailed replies! >> I guess I am wondering what the most universally useful stringing would >> be (bourdons on 4 & 5, bourdon on 4 only, no bourdons). I do understand >> that there is no "silver bullet" stringing that will be perfect for >> everything and that I will have to experiment, but since I will be >> firs
[VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start?
Thank you both for you speedy and detailed replies! I guess I am wondering what the most universally useful stringing would be (bourdons on 4 & 5, bourdon on 4 only, no bourdons). I do understand that there is no "silver bullet" stringing that will be perfect for everything and that I will have to experiment, but since I will be first starting I think it would behoove me to not have my stringing limit the pieces I can explore. That said, I am very interested in the works of Sanz and the no bourdons tuning. My fear is that it would limit my ability to bring my guitar out and strum chords with people, etc. I wholly accept I may be overthinking this and should just pick one and plunge in. :p On Jan 20, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Chris Despopoulos wrote: > Well said, Monica. There's no doubt that it's easy to change the > stringing, and many, if not most, contemporary baroque guitarists do > just that. It has no effect one way or the other on the construction > of the instrument, indeed. > I just wanted to point out that there's no intrinsic limit to the > musicality you can pull out of the instrument if you do opt for a full > re-entrant tuning. In the process I thought I'd try for a little > levity (as opposed to gravity) -- well, I can't vouch for any success > on that front. And of course, I botched up the history... Thanks for > the clarification. > cud > __ > > From: Monica Hall > To: Chris Despopoulos > Cc: Vihuelalist > Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:51:30 PM > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? > Well - it is a serious mis-nomer to call the re-entrant tuning > "Spanish". > The Spanish would turn in their graves. > What dear old Sanz says is > In stringing there is variety, because in Rome musicians string the > guitar only with thin strings, without a bourdon on either the fourth > or fifth course. In Spain the opposite is the case since some use two > bourdons on the fourth course and another two on the fifth and at > least, as is usual, one on each course. > In other words in Spain stringing with octaves on the 4th and 5th > course is the norm. It is in Italy, and other places that the > re-entrant tuning is more common. Amat and Ribayaz also describe the > tuning with octaves on the 4th and 5th courses and Guerau also implies > that this is the method suitable for his music. Santiago de Murcia > keeps his own counsel on the matter. > Added to which Sanz doesn't actually say that the re-entrant tuning > must be used for his music or the skies will fall on you. > So if you want to, I would say feel free to use octave stringing even > if you want to play Sanz. But it is not difficult to change the > stringing on your instrument and it has no bearing on how it is > constructed or fretted so you could try different methods as you wish. > Hope you are not thoroughly confused by now. > Monica > - Original Message - From: "Chris Despopoulos" > <[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> > To: "Harlan Glotzer" <[2]hargloresea...@gmail.com>; > <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:09 PM > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Baroque guitar, where to start? >> Hi Harlan... Some comments from an amateur... >> I believe I have seen some references to graduating the fret gut as > you >> move up the neck, but I can't remember where. Nonetheless, my > guitar >> uses the same size gut for all the frets, and it was made by a very >> reputable person who not only builds instruments, but teaches, > realizes >> ancient instruments, and realizes ancient building techniques. >> If by the so-called Spanish tuning you mean stringing your > instrument >> in the manner some people argue may or may not have been supported > (or >> not) by the writings of Spanish (and other) composers, including > Gaspar >> Sanz, then I would guess you mean fully re-entrant tuning with no > bass >> strings on the A and D courses. (If you want to entertain yourself, >> look through the archives of this list to see how inflamed that > topic >> can be. It's almost as howling as the question of playing with >> fingernails was in Tarrega's day.) >> I can say the following: >> 1 I currently have my instrumnet strung in a fully re-entrant > manner. >> 2 I find there is no limitation in the range, power, or musicality > of >> the >> pieces I'm playing at the moment. I'm mostly focussed on Gaspar >> Sanz. >
[VIHUELA] Baroque guitar, where to start?
Hello all, I have recently joined this list and it is great. I am gearing up to build my first baroque guitar and am getting more and more excited by the day waiting for the plan (Ashmolean 1642 Rene Voboam). I have built instruments before so I am no stranger to working with wood (and a friend of mine is a luthier so I should be able to get some of my questions fielded). Two questions, however, that seem to elude me concern frets and strings. Do I need to gauge my frets as I move up the neck? Or can I just use a fixed gauge of gut/nylon/etc? The other is a more performance oriented question. What stringing/tuning scheme would you suggest for a beginner? I seem go be most drawn to the Spanish music, but am a complete beginner on the guitar, and I'm also afraid the Spanish tuning will limit what I can play (I'd like to experiment with new/modern music as well). What tuning/stringing do you prefer and why? Any advice on building, fretting, tuning, and the playing of the baroque guitar would be most helpful. Thanks! Harlan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
