[VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74
Dear Roger and All: The instrument pictured appears to be closer to the citole in shape and set-up than a vihuela or viola da mano. The points on the upper bouts, the tailpiece and the general shape are much like the citoles and vielles made by Lynn Elder. (I mention both instruments because they share many features.) Cheers and a Happy New Year to All, Jim Roger E. BlumbergTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'vihuela list' [EMAIL PROTECTED] vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu t cc: Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 12/28/2005 04:17 1467-74 AM - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Roger E. Blumberg' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74 Very interesting illustrations, Roger. It is an unusual shape, one which I'll leave others more experienced in these matters to comment on. It is also interesting that another vihuela (?) image uses the Arion myth. Rob ya, maybe there's still more Arions around yet to be found (I think Apollo and Orpheus are more likely to be exhausted by now, but who knows). I hesitated too, re what to call this. It's Italy, so I guess viola, or perhaps chitarra or latin guitarra? I guess there's an off chance it's completely fictional, but few seem to have been. His teacher or benefactor, I read, had one of the best collections of Roman and perhaps Greek antiques and art, sculpture, etc. So I guess he could have seen some ancient model(s) and concocted a mythical cithara-like pastiche or something. But again they most often seemed to have used recognizable and fairly authentic if not literal and recent representative models. We only have to find one more example on this order to make it a registerable sub-specie shape (is the way I look at it), i.e. to bring it to the point were we'd never be surprised again, seeing something similar. I have seen some bowed instruments on this order though, contour-wise that is, similar date, vihuela de arco perhaps. I have no ID on this picture, for example, but it seems to be in the ball-park, shield-shape we might say. http://www.thecipher.com/braccio_15th_bw-engraving_no-ID_deta.jpg Roger To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Oldest Cittern candidate
Dear All: Isn't this the same image that I put on the cover of the LSA Quarterly two years ago? Cheers, Jim Roger E. BlumbergTo: vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: t Subject: [VIHUELA] Oldest Cittern candidate 12/09/2005 12:18 PM Well, here's one (actually two) that pre-date the Girolamo dai Libri cittern by 85 years. This image was filed under cithara. Base-relief carving by Luca della Robbia, 1431-38. See the center pegs, small horns or wings at the body/neck joint, squared little tail extension. These might also have those odd tongue-depressor-like frets. http://www.helsinki.fi/taitu/taidehistoria/kokoelmat/Kipsit/kips100.gif or from here, fourth row down, far right thumbnail Laudate eum in psaltheris et cithara http://www.helsinki.fi/taitu/taidehistoria/kokoelmat/kipskuv_r.htm here's the dai Libri instrument again, 1520 http://tinyurl.com/7rjp7 Roger To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Dedillo
Dear Ed, Rob and All: Isn't all Indian sitar playing dedillo? That is, I believe the strings are plucked exclusively with the right-hand index finger, onto which is fitted a pointed wire loop, which serves as a plectrum. (Shades of Francesco's silver thimbles!) There must be somebody out there who knows more about this than I do My point is not that there is any connection between the art forms, only that the great Indian musicians have demonstrated that it is possible to produce virtuoso music with this technique, albeit with a plectrum of sorts. Cheers, Jim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: translation
Dear Stanley and All: Why can't it be both? In other words, a basse dance melody with a counterpoint part written above it. My understanding is that this type of instrumental performance was fairly common in the late medieval and early renaissance periods. It was cultivated by shawm bands; the tenor part was a standard melody, while the treble part was semi-improvised (?). This tradition also had a plucked-instrument counterpart in the lute duo, or lute-gittern duo, of the same period. Keith Polk has written a fascinating book on this subject. This tradition is carried on in the early lute and, to a lesser extent, vihuela repertoire, as evidenced by the published material. Cheers, Jim Stanley Yates [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 'Baroque Guitar List' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu cc: 01/29/2005 11:21 Subject: Re: translation PM This simply refers to a piece in which a counterpoint has been written to a pre-existing bass cantus firmus (a ground) -doesn't have anything to do with a dance, does it? Stanley - Original Message - From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Baroque Guitar List' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:29 PM Subject: RE: translation I always thought it meant a bass dance. In addition to the Narvaez piece, Valderrabano had his version of it, entitled, Contrapunto sobre el tenor de la baxa. This is for 2 vihuelas, tuned a fifth apart. ed At 05:22 PM 1/29/2005 +, Rob MacKillop wrote: Well, Candace, the text is entirely in Latin. I can't see anything Catalan about it, but then again I am not likely too either. One of the ''mysteries of the Universe!''. The word 'co(n)trabaxo' is interesting. You think it means contrabass. There is a famous vihuela piece by Narvaez called 'Baxo de contrapunto' which is usually translated as 'contrapuntal dance'. So, does 'baxo' mean dance or bass, or both (as in ground bass dance)? BTW, nice website... Do you play baroque guitar/vihuela? Rob -Original Message- From: Candace Magner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 January 2005 15:15 To: Baroque Guitar List Subject: Re: translation Seems to me it would be put in catalan (or written in catalan) for contrabass Does that work? Dr. Candace A. Magner aka The Diction Queen [EMAIL PROTECTED] homepage http://clik.to/candace - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 5:10 AM Subject: translation From Fuenllana, 4th book: 'Ave maris stella a quarto del author, va el catollano por cotrabaxo' The first part is easy - 'Ave Maris Stella in four parts, by Fuenllana' But what does the second part mean? A Catalan contrapuntal dance? Doesn't seem like a dance... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
