[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
Very nice... I would love to see this ms some day. Your little guitar sounds very nice. As for tuning the mandore, I believe the Chancy ms has three different tunings. His ms seems to be for a plectrum -- well, I was taught that he marks up and down strokes, so that would indicate. He doesn't give absolute pitches, he just tunes to the frets. But the tunings are (from memory): --h D --a--f- A -a--f-- D a-- G --h D --a--f- A -a--h-- D a-- A --h D --a--f- A -a--e-- D a-- F# The last one is pretty interesting, for the second suite. But I haven't managed to pull the whole suite together yet. Drat... I hope I haven't stuck my foot into it -- I need to pull the ms out of storage and verify that these really are the tunings he has. Between work and the guitar, I'm afraid my poor mandore has languished. As have my powers of memory. cud __ From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore On 08/01/2012 12:48, Monica Hall wrote: The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart Very nice but what is mandore tuning in this context? Thanks. I don't know what you mean 'context'? I think the tuning of the mandore at the time of its popularity was more or less fixed... apart from the first course. So a four-course mandore was 5-4-5 (e.g.: g-d-g-d) and a five-course instrument was 4-5-4-5 (e.g.: d-g-d-g-d). Of course the actual pitch might be different. But on either four- or five-course instruments the top course could be re-tuned: e.g. a tone lower. But the bottom courses were not re-tuned. So the mandore tuning is quite different from the mandolino tuning in fourths (but not that that difference makes it a different instrument). Stuart Stuart Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
On 10/01/2012 17:41, Chris Despopoulos wrote: Very nice... I would love to see this ms some day. Your little guitar sounds very nice. As for tuning the mandore, I believe the Chancy ms has three different tunings. His ms seems to be for a plectrum -- well, I was taught that he marks up and down strokes, so that would indicate. He doesn't give absolute pitches, he just tunes to the frets. But the tunings are (from memory): --h D --a--f- A -a--f-- D a-- G --h D --a--f- A -a--h-- D a-- A --h D --a--f- A -a--e-- D a-- F# The last one is pretty interesting, for the second suite. But I haven't managed to pull the whole suite together yet. Drat... I hope I haven't stuck my foot into it -- I need to pull the ms out of storage and verify that these really are the tunings he has. Between work and the guitar, I'm afraid my poor mandore has languished. As have my powers of memory. cud _ Thank Chris. There are three entries in the Cornetto catalogue for mandore, and I think they are all MSS from Ulm. I just got number 35 and it came as two separate little books: one with a small number of pieces for a four-course instrument - which could be played with a plectrum. Like the Chancy pieces, which you play, it takes a skilful player to play them. It's not single line stuff. And the larger book (with over 120 pieces) is for a five-course instrument and needs some kind of fingerstyle approach (maybe fingers alone, maybe fingers and plectrum etc) I'm sure you are right, there are three tunings - (the difference only in the first course), e.g. in Chancy and in Gallot. In the book I've got from Ulm for five-course, there are just two tunings. Only a very few have the first course down a tone. (and as Rob pointed out, there is a section in the Skene MS for a tuning like the top five courses of a Renaissance lute) Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
On 08/01/2012 12:48, Monica Hall wrote: The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart Very nice but what is mandore tuning in this context? Thanks. I don't know what you mean 'context'? I think the tuning of the mandore at the time of its popularity was more or less fixed... apart from the first course. So a four-course mandore was 5-4-5 (e.g.: g-d-g-d) and a five-course instrument was 4-5-4-5 (e.g.: d-g-d-g-d). Of course the actual pitch might be different. But on either four- or five-course instruments the top course could be re-tuned: e.g. a tone lower. But the bottom courses were not re-tuned. So the mandore tuning is quite different from the mandolino tuning in fourths (but not that that difference makes it a different instrument). Stuart Stuart Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore On 08/01/2012 12:48, Monica Hall wrote: The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart Very nice but what is mandore tuning in this context? Thanks. I don't know what you mean 'context'? I think the tuning of the mandore at the time of its popularity was more or less fixed... apart from the first course. So a four-course mandore was 5-4-5 (e.g.: g-d-g-d) and a five-course instrument was 4-5-4-5 (e.g.: d-g-d-g-d). Of course the actual pitch might be different. But on either four- or five-course instruments the top course could be re-tuned: e.g. a tone lower. But the bottom courses were not re-tuned. So the mandore tuning is quite different from the mandolino tuning in fourths (but not that that difference makes it a different instrument). and different from the guitar (and incidentally lute) which almost always has a 3rd somewhere in the series. I wonder if this is because instruments play more chords and counterpoint rather than simple melodic things. Monica Stuart Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
I really enjoyed these, Stuart. I'm listening to it for the 3rd time now; can't help but smile with this music. Thanks for posting. Best, Jocelyn From: Stuart Walsh [1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 00:06:26 + To: Vihuelalist [2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
