Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 18:35 -0400, James Vega wrote: The default vimrc is no vimrc. ...except on Windows... There's an example vimrc that the installer installs to $VIM (which one can change through the Advanced install options). Part of the confusion, IMO, is that, on Windows, Vim treats $VIM/_vimrc as an alternative location for the user's vimrc instead of as the system-wide vimrc. So, unlike on unix-like platforms, $VIM/_vimrc is *only* sourced if $HOME/_vimrc doesn't exist instead of always being sourced. I'm a little confused here, unless the user adds $HOME/_vimrc, then $VIM/_vimrc will be sourced by default, no? Which means there IS a default vimrc on Windows. The other bit is that the Windows installers (both yours and Bram's), have decided to use this to, by default, coddle new users by installing a vimrc to $VIM/_vimrc enabling a bunch of options to make Vim act more like a typical Windows application. That may be the right thing to do for new users, and leave the more experienced users to unselect that option (as I do) when installing Vim on a new Windows system. It depends on what learning curve you want to present to new users. Our installer is simply trying to duplicate the default Vim installer behavior. Whatever gets decided for the default will get adapted to ours. I also agree that the mswin option is confusing. I don't think that keeping it makes Vim any more understandable. (One of the reasons Cream was originally developed.) It forks the default Vim behavior by platform. (Ironically, Cream was developed to maintain the standard CUA behavior + features ACROSS platforms.) But then, should nocompatible be set by default on Windows, too? IMO, the correct behavior should be an empty vimrc named vimrc-example. Various features can be included (commented) with simple explanatory text, like a reference tutorial of the top 100 features most users tamper with. The first line explains how to rename the file to activate it. Something similar to http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Example_vimrc, but with more settings commented out? Exactly. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 10:46 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: On Mar 18, 12:35 pm, Ben Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com wrote: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff#Vim_distribution_from_Cream It looks like some changes have been made since the wiki article was written, I'm not sure if issues remain. It looks like at least the '!' placement has been fixed. ...but the backslash issues have not been fixed. Steve, the version installed on my machine (I always choose to overwrite the _vimrc) looks like this on line 20: if sh =~ '\cmd' let cmd = '\' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff\' let eq = '\\' If I get rid of the extra backslashes so it matches the version you posted, it works fine. If the backslashes are left in, it breaks as the OP describes. Ok, I have fixed this in our build code, effective our the next distributed build. Unless other conversation decides to eliminate the default vimrc for Windows entirely... :) -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 08:24:05PM -0400, Steve Hall wrote: On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 18:35 -0400, James Vega wrote: The default vimrc is no vimrc. ...except on Windows... That's an implementation detail of the installer which can be disabled by the user. There's no requirement for there to be $VIM/_vimrc. There's an example vimrc that the installer installs to $VIM (which one can change through the Advanced install options). Part of the confusion, IMO, is that, on Windows, Vim treats $VIM/_vimrc as an alternative location for the user's vimrc instead of as the system-wide vimrc. So, unlike on unix-like platforms, $VIM/_vimrc is *only* sourced if $HOME/_vimrc doesn't exist instead of always being sourced. I'm a little confused here, unless the user adds $HOME/_vimrc, then $VIM/_vimrc will be sourced by default, no? Which means there IS a default vimrc on Windows. See above reply. There are two default locations for a vimrc on Windows ($HOME/_vimrc and $VIM/_vimrc, in order), which seems unnecessary to me. If there are to be system-wide defaults, they should be in $VIM/vimrc. If a user wants a base vimrc to be installed for them when they install Vim, they should explicitly enable that in the installer and it should be installed to $HOME/_vimrc. Having different behavior on different platforms when one of Vim's selling points is that it is a very portable editor doesn't make sense. There are obviously going to be system-dependent features/functionality, but the overall functionality should be consistent across platforms. The other bit is that the Windows installers (both yours and Bram's), have decided to use this to, by default, coddle new users by installing a vimrc to $VIM/_vimrc enabling a bunch of options to make Vim act more like a typical Windows application. That may be the right thing to do for new users, and leave the more experienced users to unselect that option (as I do) when installing Vim on a new Windows system. It depends on what learning curve you want to present to new users. Our installer is simply trying to duplicate the default Vim installer behavior. Whatever gets decided for the default will get adapted to ours. Right, I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. I realize this is also the behavior in the standard installer. I also agree that the mswin option is confusing. I don't think that keeping it makes Vim any more understandable. (One of the reasons Cream was originally developed.) It forks the default Vim behavior by platform. (Ironically, Cream was developed to maintain the standard CUA behavior + features ACROSS platforms.) But then, should nocompatible be set by default on Windows, too? If I remember correctly, the installed vimrc sources vimrc_example.vim, so nocompatible is set. -- James GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega james...@jamessan.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 14:33 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: I know for quite some time, the diffexpr given in vimrc_example.vim (or wherever it is given in the default cream setup) is broken on Windows. Perhaps it still is broken? First I've heard. Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? Below is the _vimrc generated by the Cream installer, taken from Vim's installer years ago. If someone can point out how it differs from the current Vim default, I'll fix it. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] - 1:set nocompatible 2:source $VIMRUNTIME/vimrc_example.vim 3:source $VIMRUNTIME/mswin.vim 4:behave mswin 5: 6:set diffexpr=MyDiff() 7: 8:function MyDiff() 9: let opt = '-a --binary ' 10: if diffopt =~ 'icase' | let opt = opt . '-i ' | endif 11: if diffopt =~ 'iwhite' | let opt = opt . '-b ' | endif 12: let arg1 = v:fname_in 13: if arg1 =~ ' ' | let arg1 = '' . arg1 . '' | endif 14: let arg2 = v:fname_new 15: if arg2 =~ ' ' | let arg2 = '' . arg2 . '' | endif 16: let arg3 = v:fname_out 17: if arg3 =~ ' ' | let arg3 = '' . arg3 . '' | endif 18: let eq = '' 19: if $VIMRUNTIME =~ ' ' 20:if sh =~ '\cmd' 21: let cmd = '' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 22: let eq = '' 23:else 24: let cmd = substitute($VIMRUNTIME, ' ', ' ', '') . '\diff' 25:endif 26: else 27:let cmd = $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 28: endif 29: silent execute '!'.cmd.' '.opt.arg1.' '.arg2.' '.arg3.eq 30:endfunction - -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On 18/03/11 03:11, Steve Hall wrote: On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 14:33 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: I know for quite some time, the diffexpr given in vimrc_example.vim (or wherever it is given in the default cream setup) is broken on Windows. Perhaps it still is broken? First I've heard. Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? [...] If we distribute .vimrc and _vimrc, wouldn't that clobber any existing user vimrc during an upgrade, the way, let's say, $VIMRUNTIME/syntax/vim.vim is overwritten by an upgrade? Best regards, Tony. -- If all be true that I do think, There be Five Reasons one should Drink; Good friends, good wine, or being dry, Or lest we should be by-and-by, Or any other reason why. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
RE: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
From: Tony Mechelynck, Fri, March 18, 2011 5:51 am On 18/03/11 03:11, Steve Hall wrote: Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? [...] If we distribute .vimrc and _vimrc, wouldn't that clobber any existing user vimrc during an upgrade, the way, let's say, $VIMRUNTIME/syntax/vim.vim is overwritten by an upgrade? Depends on how it is distributed. I've always thought it odd that the default vimrc requires any lines at all. Why is the default behavior of the application required to be varied by a vimrc? A vimrc is for a user to alter defaults, but as long as I can remember Vim has distributed one with features differing by distribution. (Raise your hand if you count 100 times you've seen a Windows Vim user confused by the mswin line in _vimrc.) And each installer has to prompt the user whether or not to overwrite the existing vimrc. On silent installs, OS upgrades, new OS installs, etc., what should be the default? IMO, the correct behavior should be an empty vimrc named vimrc-example. Various features can be included (commented) with simple explanatory text, like a reference tutorial of the top 100 features most users tamper with. The first line explains how to rename the file to activate it. Then all the distributions can include the same file, nobody gets their customized vimrc clobbered, and the default Vim behavior is the same for everybody. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] :: Cream for Vim (http://cream.sourceforge.net) -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Mar 17, 9:11 pm, Steve Hall digit...@dancingpaper.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 14:33 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: I know for quite some time, the diffexpr given in vimrc_example.vim (or wherever it is given in the default cream setup) is broken on Windows. Perhaps it still is broken? First I've heard. Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? Below is the _vimrc generated by the Cream installer, taken from Vim's installer years ago. If someone can point out how it differs from the current Vim default, I'll fix it. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] - 1:set nocompatible 2:source $VIMRUNTIME/vimrc_example.vim 3:source $VIMRUNTIME/mswin.vim 4:behave mswin 5: 6:set diffexpr=MyDiff() 7: 8:function MyDiff() 9: let opt = '-a --binary ' 10: if diffopt =~ 'icase' | let opt = opt . '-i ' | endif 11: if diffopt =~ 'iwhite' | let opt = opt . '-b ' | endif 12: let arg1 = v:fname_in 13: if arg1 =~ ' ' | let arg1 = '' . arg1 . '' | endif 14: let arg2 = v:fname_new 15: if arg2 =~ ' ' | let arg2 = '' . arg2 . '' | endif 16: let arg3 = v:fname_out 17: if arg3 =~ ' ' | let arg3 = '' . arg3 . '' | endif 18: let eq = '' 19: if $VIMRUNTIME =~ ' ' 20: if sh =~ '\cmd' 21: let cmd = '' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 22: let eq = '' 23: else 24: let cmd = substitute($VIMRUNTIME, ' ', ' ', '') . '\diff' 25: endif 26: else 27: let cmd = $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 28: endif 29: silent execute '!'.cmd.' '.opt.arg1.' '.arg2.' '.arg3.eq 30:endfunction - Wow, I thought I'd seen this on the list before. Maybe I was wrong. Details here: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff#Vim_distribution_from_Cream It looks like some changes have been made since the wiki article was written, I'm not sure if issues remain. It looks like at least the '!' placement has been fixed. Perhaps the OP is using the outdated MyDiff documented on the wiki page. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Mar 18, 12:35 pm, Ben Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 17, 9:11 pm, Steve Hall digit...@dancingpaper.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 14:33 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: I know for quite some time, the diffexpr given in vimrc_example.vim (or wherever it is given in the default cream setup) is broken on Windows. Perhaps it still is broken? First I've heard. Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? Below is the _vimrc generated by the Cream installer, taken from Vim's installer years ago. If someone can point out how it differs from the current Vim default, I'll fix it. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] - 1:set nocompatible 2:source $VIMRUNTIME/vimrc_example.vim 3:source $VIMRUNTIME/mswin.vim 4:behave mswin 5: 6:set diffexpr=MyDiff() 7: 8:function MyDiff() 9: let opt = '-a --binary ' 10: if diffopt =~ 'icase' | let opt = opt . '-i ' | endif 11: if diffopt =~ 'iwhite' | let opt = opt . '-b ' | endif 12: let arg1 = v:fname_in 13: if arg1 =~ ' ' | let arg1 = '' . arg1 . '' | endif 14: let arg2 = v:fname_new 15: if arg2 =~ ' ' | let arg2 = '' . arg2 . '' | endif 16: let arg3 = v:fname_out 17: if arg3 =~ ' ' | let arg3 = '' . arg3 . '' | endif 18: let eq = '' 19: if $VIMRUNTIME =~ ' ' 20: if sh =~ '\cmd' 21: let cmd = '' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 22: let eq = '' 23: else 24: let cmd = substitute($VIMRUNTIME, ' ', ' ', '') . '\diff' 25: endif 26: else 27: let cmd = $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff' 28: endif 29: silent execute '!'.cmd.' '.opt.arg1.' '.arg2.' '.arg3.eq 30:endfunction - Wow, I thought I'd seen this on the list before. Maybe I was wrong. Details here: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff#Vim_distribution_from_Cream It looks like some changes have been made since the wiki article was written, I'm not sure if issues remain. It looks like at least the '!' placement has been fixed. ...but the backslash issues have not been fixed. Steve, the version installed on my machine (I always choose to overwrite the _vimrc) looks like this on line 20: if sh =~ '\cmd' let cmd = '\' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff\' let eq = '\\' If I get rid of the extra backslashes so it matches the version you posted, it works fine. If the backslashes are left in, it breaks as the OP describes. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 10:46 -0700, Ben Fritz wrote: On Mar 18, 12:35 pm, Ben Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com wrote: ...but the backslash issues have not been fixed. Steve, the version installed on my machine (I always choose to overwrite the _vimrc) looks like this on line 20: if sh =~ '\cmd' let cmd = '\' . $VIMRUNTIME . '\diff\' let eq = '\\' If I get rid of the extra backslashes so it matches the version you posted, it works fine. If the backslashes are left in, it breaks as the OP describes. I'll fix this before our next update. Does the default Vim set diffexpr ? I guess that's probably a good idea for Windows, most users don't have a diff.exe on path. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 06:26:38AM -0700, Steve Hall wrote: From: Tony Mechelynck, Fri, March 18, 2011 5:51 am On 18/03/11 03:11, Steve Hall wrote: Can we not start distributing .vimrc and _vimrc instead of relying on the installer to create these? [...] If we distribute .vimrc and _vimrc, wouldn't that clobber any existing user vimrc during an upgrade, the way, let's say, $VIMRUNTIME/syntax/vim.vim is overwritten by an upgrade? Depends on how it is distributed. I've always thought it odd that the default vimrc requires any lines at all. The default vimrc is no vimrc. There's an example vimrc that the installer installs to $VIM (which one can change through the Advanced install options). Part of the confusion, IMO, is that, on Windows, Vim treats $VIM/_vimrc as an alternative location for the user's vimrc instead of as the system-wide vimrc. So, unlike on unix-like platforms, $VIM/_vimrc is *only* sourced if $HOME/_vimrc doesn't exist instead of always being sourced. The other bit is that the Windows installers (both yours and Bram's), have decided to use this to, by default, coddle new users by installing a vimrc to $VIM/_vimrc enabling a bunch of options to make Vim act more like a typical Windows application. That may be the right thing to do for new users, and leave the more experienced users to unselect that option (as I do) when installing Vim on a new Windows system. It depends on what learning curve you want to present to new users. Why is the default behavior of the application required to be varied by a vimrc? A vimrc is for a user to alter defaults, but as long as I can remember Vim has distributed one with features differing by distribution. (Raise your hand if you count 100 times you've seen a Windows Vim user confused by the mswin line in _vimrc.) And each installer has to prompt the user whether or not to overwrite the existing vimrc. The installer should be installing to $VIM, not $HOME. Unfortunately, many Windows users aren't used to the concept of $HOME and will tend to edit the vimrc in $VIM instead of creating their own in $HOME. Educating the users to put their own vimrc in $HOME is the right route to avoid it getting overwritten. IMO, the correct behavior should be an empty vimrc named vimrc-example. Various features can be included (commented) with simple explanatory text, like a reference tutorial of the top 100 features most users tamper with. The first line explains how to rename the file to activate it. Something similar to http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Example_vimrc, but with more settings commented out? -- James GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega james...@jamessan.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Mar 16, 4:28 pm, Jean Johner jean.joh...@cea.fr wrote: Hello, I made Cream without cream 7.3.138 vim complete installation on XP. Opening a file with gvim and using the menu File/Split Diff with..., I get the 2 following error messages: E810: Cannot read or write temp files then E97: Cannot create diffs Note that there is no problem with the official gvim73_46.exe installation. Best regards Jean Johner Also using the Vim without Cream 7.3.138 installation (albeit with my own custom .vimrc including my own custom diffexpr), I cannot reproduce this behavior, either using diffsp or using the file menu. I know for quite some time, the diffexpr given in vimrc_example.vim (or wherever it is given in the default cream setup) is broken on Windows. Perhaps it still is broken? -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Cream without cream 7.3.138 gives errors with Diff
On Mar 16, 4:28 pm, Jean Johner jean.joh...@cea.fr wrote: Hello, I made Cream without cream 7.3.138 vim complete installation on XP. Opening a file with gvim and using the menu File/Split Diff with..., I get the 2 following error messages: E810: Cannot read or write temp files then E97: Cannot create diffs Note that there is no problem with the official gvim73_46.exe installation. Does the same thing happen if you use the :diffsplit command instead of the menu? I installed the same earlier this week on my work computer and have been using :diffsplit and gvim.exe -d without any problems. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
