Who buys a $60 68882? Re: adding FPU

[Gregg Eshelman]

> >Do we have any clue where the 'other' market is ...
> the one that _is_ 
> >willing to pay $60 for this FPU?

Embedded systems*. Lots of that stuff made new but
still using generations old chips because they
don't need all that processing oopmh.

*Especially if goverment (taxpayer) money is buying
the things!

I've talked with some embedded systems types who
were lamenting that so many of the "old line" chips
have been phased out, forcing them to use stuff with
100x the power they actually need. Even 80486 based
PC-104 bus SBC (single board computer) stuff is
getting hard to find. (I dunno if AMD still makes
their Elan series with the 5x86 core and a ton of
"peripheral" stuff all on the same chip.)

But if they're willing to jump on a different wagon,
PIC based stuff like the BASIC Stamp can do what
they used to do with the old motorola and x86
embedded systems chips. :)

=
http://www.junkscience.com "All the Junk that's fit to Debunk!"

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Color Classic Upgraded Questions..

[Chuck Underhill]

Hi Everyone,

Recently I traded some older Newton stuff for a dusty
Color Classic. I got the system in yesterday, and found
that it was in PERFECT shape.. ;o But I am a bit
confused about it.
First off, it came with the orginal mothboard packed
outside the unit. So, I figured that was an extra.
Turns out the unit has a 575 upgrade in it, ethernet
and modem combo card (I think) 36 Megs of RAM and a
1 Gig drive. 
But the upgrade has me confused. The system on the drive
was 7.6, and I wanted to install 8.0 or 8.1. But when I
go to run the installation, it says "Can't run on this 
machine." I know that the unit has had a "Mystic" style
upgrade, so shouldnt 8.0 run on it?
What am I missing.? 

The unit is going to make a wonderful addition to my Mac
collection, and I am pretty excited about getting it up
and operational. At the moment, all that is on it is the
OS until I can get the machine stats figured out.

Anyways, if you have an idea of what's up, please drop
me a note!

Thanks!

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

IIfx scsi terminations

[jpero]

Hi,

I'm puzzled by apple's documents on proper termination of internal 
and external stuff especially with IIfx.

Could somebody can explain this?  What I am supposed to have in that 
IIfx?   All I got in that IIfx are:  regular apple Quantum prodrive 
hd has terminated resistors on 80S, p/n 590-0566 cable.

I know this unique Mac needs oddball way of terminating and like.

Cheers,

Wizard

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: adding FPU

[Scott Holder]

At 10:59 PM 3/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > From: Scott Holder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>[snip]
> > I certainly wouldn't spend the $60 or whatever on it, but if you find a
> > cheap source you almost might as well. It won't hurt anything.
>
>Do we have any clue where the 'other' market is ... the one that _is_ 
>willing to
>pay $60 for this FPU?  I suspect that this seller is a just a little out of
>touch, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

My guess is that he looked at it and said "Hmm, plug in microchip, must be 
expensive" and slapped an arbitrary price on it. Sort of like when Thrift 
stores put stupidly high prices on old PCs and then sell G4 accelerated 
Macs for $12 because they don't know what they are :)

Scott Holder


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: adding FPU

[A. Daniel King]

> From: Scott Holder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[snip]
> I certainly wouldn't spend the $60 or whatever on it, but if you find a 
> cheap source you almost might as well. It won't hurt anything.

Do we have any clue where the 'other' market is ... the one that _is_ willing to
pay $60 for this FPU?  I suspect that this seller is a just a little out of
touch, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

-- 
//  A. Daniel King,
//  Co-List-Nanny for LEM Compact and Vintage Macs 
//  http://lowendmac.com/lists

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Update on IIfx memory and rom.

[jpero]

1.  Turned out that 64pin simms basically 8 bits per simm. (!!) 
Other than that, I do not understand that Apple used "year only" 
64pin design except to allow more pins for addressing more than 16MB 
per simm.  I'll just convert IIfx to use 72pin.  I have lot of 
16MB 72 pin  simms.

I was able to confirm that 64pin simm are 8 bit each because of this 
part number on these chips:  For mine: it is 1MB x 1bit chips in 
group of 8 chips.

Hence somebody or two who claims to seen or had simm converters
for IIfx, each 64pin slot to use one 30 pin simm is true.

FYI:  Byte is wrong on dual i/o for ram thing bec 030 is 32 bit bus, 
hence the confusion for 12 years.   Frankly, I would say this is 
dollied up IIx with more i/o coprocessors that few software actually 
use, cache on board that works, high performance internal SCSI and 
sightly improved nubus.  Last of all, hopped up data bus for cpu and 
fpu running at 40MHz, 32 bit clean is great thing actually.
Frankly, 840av is "art of work" design compared to that brutal-force 
design on that IIfx.

Note:  Very few machines use 32pin simms based on 30pin simm design.
This apple's 64pin simms aren't true 64pin because each pin is 
connected on same side so this gave us 32pin total, ditto to peecee 
and Mac 72pin simms (actual pins used 36 pins).  Odd eh? Secondly, 
IBM PS/2 and others are using 72pin simms by then instead of using 
four simms per bank except in low end machines of that time.

2.  ROM simm in that IIfx is 4 chip type using SMD but standard 
eeproms!  That made reverse-engineering rom simm pin out much easier.

3. Finally somebody tried to use AST's 64pin simms in that IIfx.
That AST found in CPUID design using these simms are not COMPATIBLE 
at all.  I know because I had AST machines (386 and 486).   These 
used 20 bits per stick except they're installed in 
groups of twos (makes sense since these cpu requires 32 bits stuff.). 
AST 64pin simms every two chips are tied together.

Looking at one of AST's simm one of chip says "256", that's 
multipled by four for 1MB per stick.  AST is very quirky design for 
sure.

Cheers,

Wizard

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Performa 460

[Mark Benson]

On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 10:45 PM, James E Freeland wrote:

> Everyone,
>
> Well I got an FPU chip on Ebay for US$10.00.
> Tested and work fine.
>
> System appears to be a little faster, but can't be certain.
> Test scores are higher.

The System performance will not change on adding an FPU. Floating point 
operations will improve markedly though, try using Techtool Pro on it or 
something similar and test the FP performance.

> Anybody use an LCIII+ with OS 7.6 on it?
> and what is the performance?

I used 7.5.5 on my III+ for a time and it was dog slow. 7.6.1 is not 
much different and will only be worse, but more stable. It's doable and 
livable with but not if you need to do anything strenuous.

I'd recommend 7.1, it's stable, speedy and not too feature-bare. Gamba 
has d/l links for the 7.1 install disks.

> I want to make this P460 ethernet and internet ready.

You need an ethernet card, a copy of Open Transport 1.1.1 and the 1.1.2 
upgrade (from ftp.apple.com), a modem that is Mac compatible (any Hayes 
standard serial 56k modem will do) and a copy of iCab 2.71beta. That 
will, with luck and a little configuring, get you netting and ethernet. 
More details no doubt are in the FAQ and Gamba has links to all the 
software you need.

--

Mark Benson

Vintage Macs List Nanny
aka 
silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger)
SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger)
Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at:

Macintosh LC central

i was Born in England


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Mac DHCP

[Mark Benson]

On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 09:27 PM, Eagle wrote:

> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:19 , Mark Benson wrote:
>> Is there a free DHCP server for the Mac. I want to set my LC475, which
>> runs 24/7 as a webserver and now a DNS, as a DHCP server to save me
>> having to set all my machines up by hand. Also is there any chance of
>> serving VNC or Timbuktu (without having to buy TB2 preferably) from the
>> LC so I can run it headless.
>
> Do they even still sell Timbuktu for 68k Macs?
>
> What software are you using for these Internet services?

MacDNS and MacHTTP respectively. I wondered if there was a MacDHCP or 
something like that to do DHCP. I originally bought this LCIII to do DNS 
and HTTP serving but never got around to it as I started with NetBSD and 
gave up because I have issues with command prompts, being a Mac user.

As a cursory side note I found out MacDNS 1.0.4 is intended for Power 
Macintosh WGS machines, it specifies a Power Macintosh Server in the 
spec. Amusingly, however it's actually FAT and works fine on a 68k Mac. 
In fact I'd go as far as saying it's probably written in old 68k code 
and works on a PowerMac simply as a result of legacy support.

--

Mark Benson

Vintage Macs List Nanny
aka 
silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger)
SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger)
Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at:

Macintosh LC central

i was Born in England


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Performa 460

[James E Freeland]

Everyone,

Well I got an FPU chip on Ebay for US$10.00.
Tested and work fine.

System appears to be a little faster, but can't be certain.
Test scores are higher.

Anybody use an LCIII+ with OS 7.6 on it?
and what is the performance?

I want to make this P460 ethernet and internet ready.

Jim F


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Flash memory card readers?

[Clark Martin]

At 12:36 AM -0800 3/30/02, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

>What was the first PowerBook to have PCMCIA and what
>System or MacOS version did it run? IIRC, Apple didn't
>pick up PCMCIA until the PPC era began. PC laptops
>had it back in the late 386 era.


The PB190 and PB5300 have it built in and are the first models AFAIK 
with it.  The 500 series can have a PCMCIA card cage added.
-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Mac DHCP

[Eagle]

On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:19 , Mark Benson wrote:
> Is there a free DHCP server for the Mac. I want to set my LC475, which
> runs 24/7 as a webserver and now a DNS, as a DHCP server to save me
> having to set all my machines up by hand. Also is there any chance of
> serving VNC or Timbuktu (without having to buy TB2 preferably) from the
> LC so I can run it headless.

Do they even still sell Timbuktu for 68k Macs?

What software are you using for these Internet services?

Eagle


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Mac DHCP

[Mark Benson]

Is there a free DHCP server for the Mac. I want to set my LC475, which 
runs 24/7 as a webserver and now a DNS, as a DHCP server to save me 
having to set all my machines up by hand. Also is there any chance of 
serving VNC or Timbuktu (without having to buy TB2 preferably) from the 
LC so I can run it headless.

--

Mark Benson

Vintage Macs List Nanny
aka 
silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger)
SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger)
Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at:

Macintosh LC central

i was Born in England


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Mode32 Extension - please update or remove

[Mark Benson]

The message was a CC from a message I sent to The UMICH archive. I 
didn't intend it to actually be a note for the users of this list and I 
actually meant to post it to the Compacts List. We are trying to stamp 
out r at least the use and distribution of Mode32 1.2 and similar 
versions in order to protect users  from it's potential issues with OS 
7.5. Does anyone know why 1.2 is still useful, does the later version 
ont work on early system version?

--

Mark Benson

Vintage Macs List Nanny
aka 
silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger)
SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger)
Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at:

Macintosh LC central

i was Born in England


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: OT - For whomever gives a ........monkey's?

[Mark Benson]

I'll allow this OT, after all you don't trash yourself and your car 
every working day, unless you are a bad NASCAR driver ;). I'm glad it 
was only a broken nose and, as for the RV, I have to say we get the same 
problem here in the UK (although they are never quite that size) with 
old retired people buying huge RVs and proceeding to drive them like a 
moron.

I'm glad it was only your nose you broke and your family is OK. Your a 
very lucky guy.

BTW don't go mad on this tread guys or I'll have to curtail it by hand, 
thanks.

--

Mark Benson

Vintage Macs List Nanny
aka 
silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger)
SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger)
Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at:

Macintosh LC central

i was Born in England


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: Flash memory card readers?

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Robert Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Is there any kind of a "reader" available for
> vintage macs for Flash memory?
> That is, a Compact Flash Card reader, or Multimedia
> Card reader?
> 
> I'm looking for something that would work with the
> standard Mac serial ports,
> or the SCSI port.
> 
> Any ideas?

The only thing I've ever seen is one of the old
NuBus 486 PC cards made by Orange Micro had a
single PCMCIA slot in the back. I have no idea
if the Mac System could access the slot. If that
card can run Windows 98 then there would be no
problem for it to read most any PCMCIA RAM card or
Smart Media or MMC or Memory Stick or Compact Flash
with adaptors. Most should also work with Win95B.

What was the first PowerBook to have PCMCIA and what
System or MacOS version did it run? IIRC, Apple didn't
pick up PCMCIA until the PPC era began. PC laptops
had it back in the late 386 era.

=
http://www.junkscience.com "All the Junk that's fit to Debunk!"

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com