Re: Oh my....... Intel CPU's???

[Marco van de Voort]

On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 09:21:16AM -0400, Ray Fryer wrote:
> >At the outset, to change to Intel chips would indeed remove the thing that
> makes a Mac a Mac. And in doing so would kill Mac's following once and for
> all.
> 
> I don't know. You have a different mind set now with OS X. Personally, I
> think what makes a Mac a Mac is the operating system. Fundamentally, we have
> always shared hardware with the PC.

I'm no real mac'er, but I'd say it is the software/hardware integration. The
OS  is decent, but not vastly superior IMHO, and neither is the hardware.

If there is something to it, it is the combination of both.

Half of the PC OS problems are due to the infinite amount of hardware it has
to run on. 


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Re: Oh my....... Intel CPU's???

[Marco van de Voort]

> On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Kyle DePasquale wrote:
> 
> > Wouldn't such a major architecture change cause most of the  
> > programs currently written for mac to not function at all?  If  
> > that's the case, then switching to an x86 architecture *could* ruin  
> > apple.  My guess is that they're not changing architectures, but  
> > that they're just going to have intel produce PPC chips, or  
> > something that is fairly compatible.
> >
> 
> Here's the most plausible possibility I've read so far.
> 
> 
> Still, it causes us some consternation. I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

I think they just are in talks because of they want to use the chips for
some mobile gadget, not mainstream mac lines.

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Re: What to do with IIcx?

[Marco van de Voort]

On Sat, May 28, 2005 at 08:46:20PM +0100, Manuel Marques wrote:
> Bah, WinTel machines! I'm fed up with them! Especially the newer ones! ;-)
> 
> I currently own half a dozen or so Macs - 2 SE/30s (one has the screen
> ruined), a dead IIci, 3 LCIII and a Performa 5200CD. But I couldn't access
> the Net with those!

The 5200CD can, but it is not nice. I had put  96M into it at the end and a
4GB 5400 RPM HD, and browsing was so painful, I only used it for e.g.
checking TV details when my main machine was not available. Mostly I used it
as telnet terminal.

Starcraft was also not doable. (I like Blizzard games, and the older ones
combine Mac and PC versions on one CD)

Note that I had to install the ethernet driver myself. Comslot NIC drivers
were not included with even Mac OS 8.1. My card was a dayna (or something
that sounded like that), and searching for a driver led me to the intel
site. After installing that, the network/internet worked (OS 8.1 included
open transport)



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Re: What to do with IIcx?

[Marco van de Voort]

> I recently resurrected a IIcx that had been on a closet shelf for about 
> 6 years. It was working when I put it in there, but now it was dead. I 
> replaced the battery, but no go.

(Flame mode on)

It has dirty roms, so it is useless (read: it won't run Unix) ;-)

(Flame mode/off)

Seriously, spending $20 on _parts_ of a CX? I bought a complete 840AV for
Eur 15.

I messed with a CI for a long time, and in retrospect with only meagre
results. Anything you do requires more cash for upgrade (ethernet, cpu
upgrade, a 5400 RPM disc that won't overheat the system, more than 32MB
memory, external CDROM etc etc)

So unless you have access to cheaply get a lot of stuff for it, or are
really sentimental, I suggest kitting it water proof, filling it up with
water, and use it as a door stop, and start looking for an AV or so, if you
want to keep a 68k around for nostalgia.


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Re: KVM

[Marco van de Voort]

> > Macs that wern't switched on!!
> Dr.Bott still sells a 2 and 4 computer ADB KVM
> 
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=1104-MSA4
> 
> I have the above 4 computer version found mint on eBay for around $50 or so
> with full cables sets. As you can see they are a bit expensive new, but used
> ones are affordable and worth it for space and convenience.

I've a 8 port and a 4 port Avocacent switch. (19" for PCs).
I connect the macs (840av and a 9600). Industrial stuff

I saw the vendor has ps/2 to adb converters, but they are Eur 70 the set.
They also can connect Sparcs etc to it, same pricerange.

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Re: Drive Imaging for 68k Macs

[Marco van de Voort]

> I want to install NetBSD/mac68k on both of my Mac IIci's, but I was 
> wondering if I could take a shortcut:
> 
> At my school, we take one computer, set it up to our liking 
> (partitions, system software, apps, etc.) then make an image of its 
> hard drive, and "Image" all the other computers' hard drives.  This is 
> done for OS 9.2 iMacs.  Is there a way that this same thing can be done 
> for 68k macs, and with non-mac partitions such as the NetBSD 
> partitions?  If so, what software should be used?

I used NetBSD or some other unix in a PC and/or pmac, using dd.

SCSI discs are fairly linear. If the HDs sizes match (original HD < all
other HDs)  it will probably work.

I had a IIci with a defective floppy drive, and I did everything by swapping
HDs, I took a small hd (270 MB or so), and stuffed all the rescue things on
it (macos, macos installation files, mt everything , hd setup, accelerator
drivers, NetBSD install files) that I typically (could) use.

Since drive typically died on me within the year, I kept dd'ed images on
CD.
 

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Re: IIci Hard Drive & Apple HD SC Utility

[Marco van de Voort]

> No, I click Partition, and I don't know what to do from there.
> 
> I'll google it...

Click in the free space. IIRC then you get questions

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Re: Monster Mac

[Marco van de Voort]

> Anyone know anything about an upgrade board for a 128 called a Monster
> Mac from a company called Levco?  I bought a 128 motherboard p/n
> 630-0101 that has a Monstar Mac board attached.  Just curious if it
> needs special software or extension to run or if it's worth keeping.

This page seems to indicate it is a memory upgrade:

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/12/18/1358258.shtml

(search for monstermac in the page)

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Re: Asante Ethernet card

[Marco van de Voort]

> My Reply follows quote. On 21/10/2004 15:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:  
> 
> >to transfer over from my PC via PC exchange.
> >
> My guess is that you have a 10/100 Autosensing router. Asante cards
> are notorious for not working well with autosensing switches and
> routers. I have gotten around this problem by sticking a "dumb
> hub" in the network between Asante cards and autosensing devices.

Is it possible to explicitely set media type? I have some cards in my pmacs
with the same problem (dec cards), and that can be solved by telling linux
to use a certain media type.
 

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Re: upgrade a IIci - any comments?

[Marco van de Voort]

[old msg]

> > Hi all
> > 
> > I just got an IIci and want to upgrade that box
> > somehow.
> > I already got a 7.6 CD and hope I win a Supermac
> > Thunder24 on ebay.
> > I am still looking for a Sonnet Presto CPU upgrade
> > and a Nubus Fast Ethernet card;
> 
> The Daystar CPU upgrades for the IIci are better
> and easier to find. The fastest 68k you can get is the
> 50Mhz 030 Powercache, especially if you get it with
> the math co-processor. Daystar also made the Turbo
> 040, the fastest one of which performs on a level
> with the 50Mhz 030 and allows the IIci to run software
> an 030 can't. 

I don't know if sale stuff is allowed here, but since it came up:

- 50MHz DayStar 030 (+FPU)  (card only)
- a 40 MHz Presto 040   (card only, but maybe I also have drv somewhere in
binhex)
- A 33 MHz DayStar 040 (near complete box iirc, maybe some warranty vouchers
ended up in the bin, but all essential parts like manual+disc are afaik there)
- A Silicon Express II scsi adapter (+manual, can't remember if there was
software)

All accelerator parts worked in my IIci, both Daystars even under NetBSD.

The S II was detected as nubus device by netbsd (so the card is doing
something), and I had no interest in MacOS, so I never tested much with
it.

I paid +/- Eur 55 for it in total, about two years ago, but am using
a Quadra now, and just want the investment back, and find a good home.
So Eur 50+shipping.

I'm located in the NL.


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Re: A/UX and Sonnet Presto 040

[Marco van de Voort]

> > Hi again!
> > 
> > I have a IIci with a Sonnet Presto 040 Processor
> > upgrade.  I was 
> > wondering if A/UX supports the use of it.
> 
> Good question. Is it an LC040 or the regular 040 with
> FPU? A/UX requires an FPU.
> 
> A/UX does work with the Daystar 030 PowerCache
> upgrades, so if the Presto won't mix with it, get a
> 50Mhz 030 with FPU.

No guarantee. 

NetBSD works with Daystar (030's and 040's), but not with presto.

Kernels need explicit support for these kind of devices (and in the case
with Daystar, this is done, though there were some cache utilisation issues)

So if you can't find a reference that A/UX supports it, assume it doesn't.

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Re: List of NuBus SCSI cards?

[Marco van de Voort]

> Is there a list somewhere of all the NuBus SCSI cards
> that were made?

I've an ATTO SE II.
 

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Re: Compaq Drives

[Marco van de Voort]

> I have to agree - I have one of those in my Quadra 660av, and they are
> some of the loudest hard disks I have ever heard. I thought the thing was
> broken the first time I turned it on. And you have not known frustration
> until you get an older Compaq w/o the hard drive.

I've a lot Compaq discs too. Usually 7200 rpm 2Gb discs (like st2490a,
st32550).

You don't know what noise is until you have had a 2490a :-0

I've a disc cabinet with 7 of them (for my Compaq Proliant), and they start
one after eachother (to keep drain on current down). 

It's like a F16 accelerating :_)

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Re: A dead IIci?

[Marco van de Voort]

> My dear old IIci doesn't start up tonight. It was working fine about a month ago and 
> I didn't do anything with it since that time. The symptoms:
> 
> 1. I get the normal 'boing' sound when I turn it on. No chimes of death!
> 2. The screen doesn't light up.
> 3. The hard drive isn't spinning. 
> 4. Inserting a startup floppy doesn't change anything; it doesn't try to read the 
> floppy.
> 5. The screen lights up when I press the restart button. It's completely empty; no 
> happy or unhappy Mac faces.
> 
> And it's such a nice Vintage Mac: 32 MB's of RAM, ethernet, cache card...  I never 
> had any problem with it so far. It's probably a motherboard problem. Can anyone help 
> me? 'Sad Macs, Bombs andother Disasters' (3rd edition 1997) has a section on 
> hardware, but  doesn't  mention this problem.

I assume you zapped pram?

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Re: Network Card for IIci

[Marco van de Voort]

> On Nov 26, 2003, at 03:30 am, THE ROCK wrote:
> 
> > I have one in my Mac IIci. No problems. Been in there for over 10 yrs 
> > now.
> > Peter.
> 
> Might sound a bit odd but Apple Ethernet (EN/NB?) cards are pretty, 
> although all the ones I have require an AAUI dongle to do RJ-45. That 
> said I've got 4 dongles and only use 2 of them so maybe I'm just biased 
> ;-)

Just FYI

I had problems with those (Apple Ethermac) under NetBSD, so I go for Faralon
(using Etherwave now), and had Asante Maccon before.
 

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Re: booting from CDROM

[Marco van de Voort]

> 
> 
> > I know there are some older MacOS versions downloadable. Is any of them
> > in ISO format?
> 
> There was a 7.5.3 CD image linked to this page
> http://www.graphixmad.plus.com/mac_troubleshooter/downloads.html
> 3/4 the way down but it seems to have been deleted.
> Hopefully someone has another link for it so Gamba can update his.

Indeed. I googled a bit, but found nothing
 
> The file is 9mb, a mac image and can be segmented and sent to you.

That'd be cool.

If FTP is easier, you can also upload it to here:

ftp://darren:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
(host: linuxppc.ath.cx
 user: darren
 pwd : uploadmacos

I've no real size limits on email and the ftp site has plenty of space.

Can the image format a non-apple HD?

> > (I mainly want to make a bootCD with a minimal MacOS + MacOS install data+
> > some typical utils, currently I do that by dd'ing images from/to SCSI HDs,
> > but CDs would be easier. I've no Mac with burner capacity )
> 
> Further down the page there are Amiga bootable hardfiles. The shapeshifter
> filedisk can be extracted and renamed something.hfv making it useful for
> basilisk. This in turn can be useful if you have a burner on another
> platform.

> The hardfile is little more than a floppy boot disk's system folder with
> stuffit4 on it which you can make yourself and is about as minimal as your
> going to get on a cd.

Large or small is not a problem. I just need something that can be an
origin, to format/partition a HD, install MacOS and get the rest of the
utils (stuffit/booter/mac68k distro) from CD, without having to rely on a
mac HD somewhere on a shelf (that might die), or reverting to slow and
unreliable floppies.

P.s. thanx again, I appreciate it.

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Re: 7.6 Boot Disk no no

[Marco van de Voort]

> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 10:37 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> 
> > I know that bootloaders often don't contain code to retry if there are
> > problems. It could be just that.
> 
> I don't quite follow...

> > brand
> > CDRs for old machines (which means Philips, if you live in Eindhoven, 
> > NL
> > like me). It really pays off.
> 
> It's a bone-fide Apple 7.6 Install *CD*, not a copy.

What I meant to say is that any obstruction (Small scratches, corrosion,
type of medium etc, I just named one, the medium type) can lead to problems
where the behaviour(reliability) when booting the OS from it is different
from when reading the medium when the system is up. 

The real cause for the difference is more agressive timing and less retries in the
bootloader code. I don't know if that is the case with MacOS too (since the
number of mac models is fairly limited, and there are more elaborate ROM
routines than the avg PC)

However for my powermac's I always have to try the (floppy) bootdisc several
times, while it can be read without a problem on an any normal machine (mac
or not) under unix when it is fully up.




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Re: 7.6 Boot Disk no no

[Marco van de Voort]

> I tried to boot 2 different LC475s off my 7.6 install CD and they both 
> ran for a moment reading the CD normally then spat the CD out and 
> rebooted. CD reads ok in Mac OS. Anyone else seen this?

I know that bootloaders often don't contain code to retry if there are
problems. It could be just that.

For working with my 840AV (with original CD), I dug up some CDRs I saved
for these cases, deep green ones (the old ones), or gold ones (the bottom
side deep gold).

I heard that old CDRs had a higher gain (+/- 33%), while "newer" (blue,
specially lightblue and all shades between that and (light) green) have a
lower gain.(+/- 25%)

In general, try to get as dark CDRs as possible to avoid problems.

And while I usually use dirt cheap CDRs for my modern machine, I buy brand
CDRs for old machines (which means Philips, if you live in Eindhoven, NL
like me). It really pays off.


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Re: booting from CDROM

[Marco van de Voort]

> on 10/27/03 5:43 AM, Marco van de Voort at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> > (I mainly want to make a bootCD with a minimal MacOS + MacOS install data+
> > some typical utils, currently I do that by dd'ing images from/to SCSI HDs,
> > but CDs would be easier. I've no Mac with burner capacity )
> > 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I own a Smart And Friendly Cd Burner that's 1x and
> still use a Smart And Friendly 2x on the G3 beige. Money's the issue. But
> I've used that burner on some 68k Macs with slow but lasting success.
> 
> It's an external.

Hmm. Now that I think about it. I could try to replace my 4400 cdrom by a
burner. However that is a unix machine too, so the situation is not really
different from burning on a PC.


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Re: booting from CDROM

[Marco van de Voort]

> J.S. Garrison wrote:
> 
> > HmmmI'd have to go back to some old notes, but off the cuff, I'd say
> >
> >they ALL ought to. I think it's an option built-in as far back as the
> >Plus (?)
> >
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >  
> >
> I've had issues getting my Plus (and Classic) booted off CD-ROMs with 
> the C key, but managed to do it fairly regularly with the 
> control-apple-option-delete thing. I occasionally get a Sad Mac for no 
> apparent reason, but it usually works.

I know there are some older MacOS versions downloadable. Is any of them
in ISO format?


(I mainly want to make a bootCD with a minimal MacOS + MacOS install data+
some typical utils, currently I do that by dd'ing images from/to SCSI HDs,
but CDs would be easier. I've no Mac with burner capacity )


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booting from CDROM

[Marco van de Voort]

I saw a remark about booting from external CDROM on a rather old machine on
some website.

Which 68k's can boot from CD?  (I have a IIci and a 840AV) 

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Re: 68-pin SCSI to 50/25 pin

[Marco van de Voort]

> >In theory it should work; I'm not sure if there's anything to do with Apple's
> >idea of SCSI that might prevent it. Some of my Sun external hardware says it
> >can be connected to a narrow (50 pin) host adapter. I've also got an SCA
> >adapter which has both 50 and 68 pin interfaces on it.
> ---
> No theory. It does work. There are a variety of adapter sold to convert 
> the 68 pin SCSI connector to the 50 pin used by older Macs.

Sure. but not all drives eat it. Some (mostly server oriented, got mine from
a Proliant) UW/SCA drives refuse to work in narrow mode.


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Re: Critiques On An Accelerated Mac

[Marco van de Voort]

> On Saturday, October 25, 2003, at 07:23 AM, J.S. Garrison wrote:
> 
> > I suppose this Speedster is REALLY just designed to provide quicker 
> > access to
> > often used applications. NOT for Internet Access. .
> 
> Some 68k upgrade cards had RAM sockets on them for extra memory. Sadly 
> not this one it seems, and neither does the Daystar one someone pointed 
> out on here a while back.

Statistics for my upgrade cards (IIci, though I use a 840AV nowadays)

- Sonnet presto 040: no
- Daystar 030/50: no
- Daystar 040/33: no
 
And yes, the 840AV is a _lot_ faster than the 040/33 or 040/40 in a IIci
that I used:-)
I also had NetBSD up and running on it in only a few hours, 
 
> > It actually got a little weird on me while using it. It was when I 
> > discovered
> > there was no fan in the box! My Bad?  I moved the 13 inch monitor off 
> > the top,
> > checked the CPU with my hand, and discovered it was super-hot. THAT'S 
> > why it
> > froze when loading the Mobius control panel! Duh
> 
> Yeh. The 040/40 does get REALLY hot. I have a 33MHz in my IIci and a 40 
> MHz in my 840av and both are heat-sinked. Not having a fan would be a 
> killer in that case too it's very badly vented.

I only could find SCSI disc from a Proliant 1000 server. First generation
7200 rpm discs. They run so hot you can't touch them (hp c2490a or so)
 
I run the 840AV on a table, with a table-fan blowing in it, till I can
find some fans and do the necessary casemodding. 
(like chopping out some plastic around the drivebay, so it is easier to
get airflow with the drives).

Anybody have a 840AV netbooting? I've a linux pmac 7300 that could be 
NFS and bootp server.


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Re: Apple 8*24 Display Card

[Marco van de Voort]

> > I have a Macintosh IIcx with an Apple 8*24 Display Card fitted (part no.
> > 820-0600-A). I've been trying for some time to get it to work with a PC
> > monitor (SVGA) via one of those monitor adaptors with the 10 DIP switches,
> > but to no avail.
> 
> I have made adapter and it DOES work on that two 8*24 cards I have in 
> IIci with pc monitors.  That card does have seperate sync outputs.  
> Make sure you adapter is set for 640x480 or like.  This also worked 
> on any pizza Macs.  Then adjust to higher resolution like 800 x 600 
> in control panel.

Same experiences with 800x600 here.

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> Marco van de Voort wrote:
> 
> > Don't! for! NetBSD!
> 
> It worked for me some time ago without drama but I'm very happy to hear 
> of a easier way. Is there a page thats up to date somewhere explaining 
> the full install rather than the 2001 68k/faqs?

Yes. IIRC the 1.6 release documentation has a 68k specific part about that,
or readme's in the 1.6(.1) FTP release trees.

It boils down to 

- Set up booter
- (maybe?) partition using Apple HD Setup (patched to work with foreign
HDs usually)
- make sure your FTP are on network,CD or unix partition (HFS used to
   be no good, but they've worked on the HFS driver since)
- boot a special BSD+ramdisk image with the booter.
- Do the rest from the BSD prompt. (disklabel/format/install base system)
- reboot 
- boot the stock kernel with the booter and boot into netbsd.

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> > When I read on I realized that I wouldn't be able to fit it on the 80Mb 
> > drive in the IIci I was thinking of trying it on. In fact a huge (by 68K 
> > Macs standard) amount of HD space is required. Also it sounds very 
> > complicated.
> 
> A min of 20mb from memory, 80mb would be rather limiting. I've found the
>   600mb I allocated to fall short.
> 
> > So now I'm wondering if I'll just end up with a Mac that is so slow I 
> > won't want to use it.
> 
> You must also have a token mac partition to boot from, the size and use
> of both is up to you.
> 
> > Does anybody have any experience with this sort of installation?
> 
> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual was a complete
> enough reference for deb while
> ftp://ftp.au.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-1.5.3/mac68k/INSTALL.html#Installation%20of%20base%20files
> filled the need for netbsd.

Don't! for! NetBSD!

The outdated documentation all says to prepare and install NetBSD from
MacOS using an installer and mkfs. This is asking for pain!

Use the newer way (called sysinstall IIRC) that boots a ramdisk system from
which to prepare the system from NetBSD.

This hopefully also causes you to circumevent the notorious "root must be
entirely under 1GB" problem, though that won't be that much of a problem
with your 80mb disc.
 
80 MB is a bit short, since you need to keep a minimal MacOS partition to
boot (at least in NetBSD's case) and also need space for swap and the base
system (which is usually 40 MB for both the BSD's and Debian on Intel, but
could be a bit smaller on 68k (no need for RAID tools etc))

But the IIci will be pain, speedwise. though if you can get a hold of a 
68030/50 or 68040/33 (daystar both) it is bearable. (the accel seems to
remove the 5 sec delay for even a simple "ls" somewhat)

I bought the 030 accel for Euro 2, and the 040 for eur 5. (and a Sonnet presto
for Euro 40, and that @$(&@*$( one didn't work)

Also under NetBSD the console is annoying because the virtual framebuffer
is crude and unoptimized and _slow_. So make sure that you have a network
card and way to hook it to something with a ssh client.

Then read the generic (non 68k specific) NetBSD manual to see how configure
rc.conf to bring up network. (this is adding two or three lines to rc.conf
and rebooting, but it is network device dependant, and very annoying if
you have to research this at the moment you need it)

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> Darren wrote:
> 
> > Anywho both netbsd and debian claim full support for a bog standard si 
> > with no mention of MMU.
> 
> You need a FPU for both of them though but you would have seen that in 
> the machine status lists. If you class a FPU as a co-processor then you 
> were spot on Marco, thanks.

Yes of course. Stupid x86 jargon.

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> Marco van de Voort wrote:
> >>Anywho both netbsd and debian claim full support for a bog standard si 
> >>with no mention of MMU.
> > 
> > IIsi a plain 030 IIRC. 
> > 
> > I myself used a IIci, but am now struggling to get a Quadra 840AV going.
> > (rulez, 040/40, I'm into 68k macs because of the cheap 68k, am no maccer)
> > 
> > The IIci killed too many harddisks.
> 
> Whats the problem with the 840? I'll take a guess and say the ethernet 
> with netbsd?

Getting MacOS on it. But I suspect hardware trouble. I get sad macs 3 out
of 4 times, or the screen clears, but the mouse can't move. 
 
While the ethernet is unsupported on the site, it is in fact supported.
The NetBSD site is terribly old, but development did move on.

There is even experimental DMA support, which really would boost
disc-throughput. And that's what I need, since I mainly use it for
compiling/testing.

> You might try the Max list for either if you need pointers. Helpful but 
> quite bunch over there.

The problem is that I just got the thing, and am not entirely sure about the
components I put in either. So there are simply too many variables. I'll try
to get in touch with some 68k or mac user around here. (Eindhoven, NL),
which would eliminate the disc problem.

(Btw Did somebody experiment with dd'ing Mac HDs? 

So
- setting up a working 7.x MacOs.
- dd it to an image on a PC.
- dd it back to a different HD
- put it back in the vintage mac.

I'm not a mac'er, and don't have G3's with MacOS  lying around to get
the MacOS install process going)

> I favor Debian and have had no real software problems, the hard drive 
> sounds like a old manual typewriter other than that it works.

I've a 6 Gb baby lying around, and 4x16 MB (and 2x32MB I'm not 100% sure
about).

I'm working on the FPC project (www.freepascal.org), which tries to
build a TP and Delphi compatible compiler.

Actually we already have, but the new PPC and m68k cg's opened the way to
mac.
 
> The extra 15mhz would make a difference. I'm using a centris 650, big 
> improvemnt over the quadra 700.

With an accelerator, the IIci was workable speedwise (though more speed
never hurts if you have to stuff 100 MB code through a compiler several
times a hour when debugging, even with a XP2000+ as main building machine)

At 25MHz it was pure pain though. 50MHz 030 and 33Mhz040 was workable.
The 040 was notably faster than the 030, (but that's logical since the
030 can't take advantage of the higher external speed because of the
motherboard castrating it to 25Mhz too)

The problem with the IIci was the machine's stability, the large expense to
go from 32MB to 128MB, the speed was less of a problem.

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> Marco van de Voort wrote:
> >>Heya, I've been on the list for a little while now, just generally the
> >>quiet, observent, always listening type, blah. Anyways, was just curious
> >>what all types of non-MacOS O/S's there is out there for 680x0
> >>cpu's...Preferiably non-MMU based, but if it does need MMU, throw it in
> >>anyways and mark it as an MMU one.. Mostly just wanting to see if I can
> >>mickey mouse any other O/S's to run on Basilisk II and also I have a IIsi
> > 
> > 
> > NetBSD, OpenBSD and Linux. All requiring MMU, and some might need a copro
> > too.
> 
> The MMU I understood was Memory Management Unit and is built into the 
> 030 and above. Dont tell me Apple skimped on that as well as real 040's 
> in some models?

68020 had a separate socket for MMU's. 68030 and above afaik have it
integrated. The L040 had no FPU. I don't know if there are cut down 68030's.
 
> Anywho both netbsd and debian claim full support for a bog standard si 
> with no mention of MMU.

IIsi a plain 030 IIRC. 

I myself used a IIci, but am now struggling to get a Quadra 840AV going.
(rulez, 040/40, I'm into 68k macs because of the cheap 68k, am no maccer)

The IIci killed too many harddisks.

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Re: Unix O/S's for 680x0 chips.

[Marco van de Voort]

> Heya, I've been on the list for a little while now, just generally the
> quiet, observent, always listening type, blah. Anyways, was just curious
> what all types of non-MacOS O/S's there is out there for 680x0
> cpu's...Preferiably non-MMU based, but if it does need MMU, throw it in
> anyways and mark it as an MMU one.. Mostly just wanting to see if I can
> mickey mouse any other O/S's to run on Basilisk II and also I have a IIsi

NetBSD, OpenBSD and Linux. All requiring MMU, and some might need a copro
too.

NetBSD doesn't need a copro afaik (except that the fixes for L040's are
relatively new)

I used it on a IIci
(
- daystar 030/50 worked
- daystar 040/33 worked
- sonnet presto 040/40 didn't work
)

Hardware support is usually limited to build-in devices, ethernet cards and
a few accelearators. SCSI is also slightly slower (doesn't use DMA)

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case mod IIci.

[Marco van de Voort]

Nothing spectacular, I just want a fan for the HD bay. 
Somebody did this probably already years ago.

How do I keep from disturbing the normal air flow (should it blow air in or
out etc), where should I put it (right panel, or break away the left part
of the drive cage and put it somewhere in the left side of the frontpanel.

(too much drives dying lately. And now the only ones left are 7200 RPM
discs)

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IIci and parity memory

[Marco van de Voort]

I hear there are two versions of the IIci, one requiring parity memory, and
one not.

I seem to have the non-parity one (since non-parity work), but am wondering
if parity simms will work in this one, and if so, if that is global, or per
bank. (this because 30-pins simms with parity are easier to find 2nd hand
for large sizes)


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Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished

[Marco van de Voort]

> 
> My Hi Spec. Macintosh IIci is finished. Boy is it ever sweet. Spec follows:
> 
> 32MB RAM
> 33MHz Turbo '040
> 4MB Radius Thunder IV 1360 GX
> 500MB Hard Disk

32 MB RAM
40 MHz Sonnet Presto Plus  _OR_ 50MHz DayStar + copro
Atto Silicon Express II SCSI
2 GB Quantum.

I use the DayStar 68030 accel, because this is a NetBSD machine (Though I'd
love to use the Presto under *BSD). The Atto is still unused, but should
boost disk performance

I go for 68k system/processor performance, because it is part of the
compilerfarm (so doing production), therefore the videocard is not special,
this is all play stuff:

Apple 24AC (video card avoids internal mem space/bandwidth for video)
Pinnacle Micro 650 MO drive + OCU unit.
(hopefully soon) SyQuest 200 MB 
 
> 

I've made pictures of all my Nubus cards for the mafia, but most are
somewhat unsharp. Some are nice though.
Zip is +/- 70 MB.

(
the above cards +
- Faralon Etherwave
- Daynaport E/II
- 64 kb cache card. (not apple, can't remember brand)
- asante maccon something.
- iisi copro+nubus.
)
 

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Syquest 200 jumpersettings.

[Marco van de Voort]

I'm having a IIci with a Syquest 200 MB removal drive.

When I try to mount it with MtEverything 1.1.1 it refuses to load. (and it
is "not ready" for a long time. Both using MtE drivers as drivers on the
disc.

I also have this problem with NetBSD. 

I assume it is that I don't have parity enabled, but I can't find the scsi
jumper settings on the 'net.

There are IIRC 6 jumpers, and the 3 to the side of the powerconnector turned
 out to be the SCSI id settings.

Does anybody still have docs laying around?

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Re: daystar Re: ci/si and ethernet?

[Marco van de Voort]

> --- Marco van de Voort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > - Daystar 68030/050. I managed to find a copro, and
> > add it, but don't know if it
> >is working. (2 euro)
> 
> > The FAQ:<http://macfaq.org/>
> 
> Instructions are in the FAQ on how to install the
> Power Central control panel for the 030 PowerCache
> to make it work right. It does nothing except act
> as a normal 32K cache card without the control
> panel. The faster CPU and FPU just sit there doing
> diddly-squat.

The 50 MHz CPU _is_ working under NetBSD, and I've a feeling that it
is on under MacOS also. 

Powercentral seems to inhibit NetBSD, so that is no option (like the drivers
for my presto; probably because they turn virtual mode on).

Worse, when I first removed Powercentral, NetBSD still didn't work. Zapping
a few times solved this luckily :-)

When I have to do real heavy work under MacOS (like preparing for a new
NetBSD install/reorganising discs), I put in the presto anyways.


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Re: daystar Re: ci/si and ethernet?

[Marco van de Voort]

> --- Marco van de Voort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > videocards, while I didn't see any other PDS cards
> > (except one Daystar accel, which I bought)
> 
> Got the adaptor if you're going to use it in
> anything other than a IIci, IIvx, IIvi or Performa
> 600? (If it's an 030 PowerCache, Turbo 040 or Turbo
> 601.)

I've only one 68k mac, a IIci, and three devices to stick into the PDS slot
:-)   I had a LC-III, but gave it away, when the IIci turned out to work.

- 64 kb cache card of technology works (6 euro)
- Daystar 68030/050. I managed to find a copro, and add it, but don't know if it
   is working. (2 euro)
- Sonnet Presto 040 (25 euro)

I'm currently using the Daystar card, since the Presto doesn't work yet
under Nut-BSD. A pity, because the Presto feels a lot faster under MacOS
7.5.x.

To give people an idea, I added the prices on the 2nd hand market
(Netherlands), everything bought during the last winter, mostly on
Klokhuis-days. (Apple UG here)

I don't think that the guy that sold the Daystar knew what it was, since he
also sold me a etherwave nubus NIC for the same price.

I'm also slightly short of nubus slots.
- Asante Mac Con (Euro 5  working under NetBSD)
- Silicon Express II (Euro 5 also a no go under MacOS for now)
- Two times EtherMac E/II (Euro 5 for one, the other as bonus when I bought
  some other stuff)
- Farallon Etherwave (Euro 2, two RJ 45 jackets, but not two ethernet
devices. Seems to be NIC+minihub)
- Radius something (aka Apple 8*24 IIRC), (Euro 6.25). Don't care much what
   it is, as long as it releases onboard mem :-)





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Re: ci/si and ethernet?

[Marco van de Voort]

> At 23:08 +0100 on 13/08/02, Mark Benson wrote:
> 
> >Apple NuBus NICS are AAUI - Asante MacCon NICs are UTP RJ45. I have 2
> 
> Not all of 'em.  Both made some that were AUI or 10Base-2, or both, as well as
> AUI + RJ-45 and RJ-45-only.  Apple didn't make many of the AAUI-only ones, at
> least relative to the AUI/coax ones, which I've seen a *lot* more of.

True, I've two Daynaport E/II cards here, 10base2 and AUI. First Nubus
cards I found, but they don't work under NetBSD. (didn't try under MacOS)


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Re: ci/si and ethernet?

[Marco van de Voort]

> > The IIci certainly works over ethernet using  System 6.0.8, all you
> > need is a Nubus ethernet NIC and System 6. The IIsi is also fairly
> > easy on the software side but I'm not entirely sure how you swing
> > putting a NuBus car din it as it's only got a PDS slot but I think
> > there is an adapter for it.
> 
> It would be easier to find a PDS Ethernet card for the IIsi...

Depends, both are possible. At the last Apple fair here I saw one or two of
these these converters, and relatively much more nubus ethernet and
videocards, while I didn't see any other PDS cards (except one Daystar
accel, which I bought)

I'm looking at such card, it says "Nubus Adapter Card Apple Computer (C) 1990"

It has 4 major chips:

- VLSI 9112AV   (AV???)
- MC68882FN20A  (the copro I presume), not in a socket
- two identical Apple N 107's 343s1027 chips

It also has a nubus slot.

Does anybody know if this does anything more than adding the copro/nubus
slot?

>.. in an SE/30 the FPU needs to be removed for
> the machine to work, so if you're buying a secondhand card make sure there's
> an FPU (Motorola 68882 chip, in a holder) if you want to amp up the IIsi's
> performance a bit.

I'd keep my eyes open for:

AUI<->UTP convertors. Big chance that whatever you find it won't be UTP.

either 
- a PDS ethernet card with copro as described OR
- The above described converter with a supported nubus ethernet card.

If the fairs here are anything to go by finding either the PDS<->Nubus adapter
or the complete PDS-ethernet card is pure luck.

The Nubus ethernetcards are not really a problem.

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Re: System 7 and my LC\

[Marco van de Voort]

> I'd assume the reason no one put one out is that the file name 
> limitation is hardcoded into a large percentage of applications. So, 
> even if the Finder could use a 256 character name, the apps couldn't.

True. But it could make life easier when copying and manipulating foreign
files (you don't have to rename them on the remote machine).


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Re: CD-ROM changer driver for Mac

[Marco van de Voort]

> 
> Looks like the Pioneer DRM-604X will have to find
> a home connected to one of my Macs, assuming it
> works with 7.6.1 or 9.1. :) My PC's SCSI controller
> identifies it as a DRM-600.
> 
> MS totally screwed up how changers work in 2K and
> XP. :P ATAPI/IDE ones show as a single drive only
> and you have to jump through hoops to make them
> change discs. SCSI changers show as multiple drives
> but refuse to load any discs. :P

I think the behaviour is vendor dependant. My ATAPI changer (Nec 4x4) had 4
driveletters, which is why I kicked it out of the computer and gave it
away:-)
 
Each time "My Computer" or another drive selection window came up, it
iterated through all driveletters.


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Re: SE/30 Problems

[Marco van de Voort]

> --- Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > That has been my method of clean-installing System
> > ever since I got my 
> > Compacts.
> > 
> > It has worked well for me.
> > 
> Yes. But will it provide a way to bypass pesky
> "security" softeware? That's the real issue here. 

I killed something (some password protector) like this before by simply
connecting to a NetBSD running PowerMac and hfsutil, as a total MacOS
rookie.

This is if you only want to copy some files, and not get the system on this
hardware running again. (though you might be able to delete files crucial
to the password protector that way too).

If such approach is feasable, depends on your (or one of your friend's) unix
skills

Maybe the mere connecting of the disc to a recent PowerMac as external is
enough.

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Re: Mac IIci Questions

[Marco van de Voort]

> I have some more questions about my Mac IIci.
> 
> First off, I am thinking of adding a Daystar 030 Direct Slot 50 Mhz
> accelerator, but this would require the removal of my Apple Mac IIci cache
> card.  Question:  Would this increase or decrease performance? 

Increase, and quite some. For me (I run NetBSD), it is the difference
between workable and painful. (the commandline speeds up just enough to be
near "normal")  

> The accelerator card has a math-coprocessor, like the cache card, but I do
> not know if it has any on-board cache to replace the 32K of cache I would
> lose. Also, do I need a control panel for this card or is it just plug and
> play?

Afaik you need the control panel (called "Power Central") to enable the math
processor, but I'm not 100% sure about that.  (have to test using a
benchmark for that)

The same about the cache. 

> Secondly,  I am thinking about adding 16 MB ram simms to replace my 4 MB
> ram simms.  Can my power supply handle all this extra upgrading?  The IIci
> was originally designed to handle a maximum of 32 MB ram, but they later
> started manufacturing 8 and 16 MB ram simms for the IIci.

Discs use much, much more than that memory. Don't worry. 
 
> I plan to keep my internal 80 MB hard drive, but I have several SCSI
> devices attached to my Mac IIci.

That is ok. 
 
> I know there are limitations on the power supply of a Mac IIsi, but are
> there any on the Mac IIci?

I don't know but I had.

- 8x4 MB
- The same DayStar, or (sometimes) a Sonnet Presto in the PDS
- one Nubus Atto SilliconExtreme SCSI card  (no drives attached yet, no
   drivers)
- A Nubus Asante Ethernet card.
- a Nubus Radius 24AC.
- 3 SCSI drives, one of which 7200 RPM.

all on one IIci power supply.

My discdrive is dead probably though.

\

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Re: IIci doesn't mount FIXED!

[Marco van de Voort]

>From all messages I distilled the following (keeping in mind that the
hardware setup had worked many times this way before) :

1 It isn't the host MacOS, but something with the disc.
2 Mt Everything could be a solution.


I suddenly remember that I used to use a 200 MB disc before I got the 2 GB
ones, I looked it up, and MacOS on the IIci appeared to mount it.

I connected it to my PMac, 
Downloaded Mt Everything 1.1.1, and some other stuff using lynx, and put
them on the external 200 MB HD using hfsutil.

This worked fine, and the old HD even seemed to have an older Mt Everything
version (1.1B2) on board.

I connected the 200 MB to the IIci, copied the stuff, shutdown, connected
the 2GB, and fired up Mt E.

Since I wasn't aware at that point that I had two versions, I fired up the
1.1B2, which couldn't mount the disc.

Then I noticed the other version, and 1.1 can mount it, so now I'm back in
business (and was finally able to install the drivers for my Presto040,
which I unfortunately haven't gotten to work with NetBSD yet, but that
is another story)

-

I took the 200 MB disc, connected it to the PMac, and DD'ed it to disc.

So if this ever happens again, or anything happens to my primary HD in the
IIci 

I can dd back the 200 MB disc, and have a way of booting/formatting etc the
main disc.

Phew, and thanks to all that commented :-)



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Re: IIci doesn't mount

[Marco van de Voort]

> > > 1. Currently, when I boot my IIci with an external
> > HD attached, the icon for
> > > the external SCSI disc doesn't show up. 
> 
> Has it even shown up on the IIci? If not, it may not
> be terminated. It will work on the PPC because the CD
> ROM provides the termination for the external. So, has
> the external ever shown up on the IIci?

Yes. The drive showed up before the stripping down of MacOS. Meanwhile it 
has been connected to the pmac. Once with 8.0, and another time using
hfsutil.

I never managed to boot from it since I changed the partition to contain the
whole disc though.

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Re: IIci doesn't mount

[Marco van de Voort]

> > 1. Currently, when I boot my IIci with an external HD attached, the icon for
> > the external SCSI disc doesn't show up.  The disc has a large 2 GB Hfs
> > partition, nothing else, SCSI IDs aren't changed, and the disc works fine
> > connected to the PMac (both underMacOS as hfsutil)
> 
> William already suggested Mt. Everything which would be my first guess to
> see if the drive is okay, also. If you have Drive Setup there, I'd fire
> that up and make sure the drive's automount flags are also set, and check
> that the partitions are okay, including the driver.

No. I do have a patched apple HD setup though. But since I have to swap
discs (the internal IIci disc to the external cabinet to put some stuff on
the IIci, I'll try that)
 
> > I think I know the cause, I had a problem with my DayStar accel(using
> > powercentral made booting NetBSD impossible), and tried to remove its
> > software as a MacOS nitwit. I probably removed something I shouldn't have
> > :-)   I already tried to install a minimal 7.5.5 over it, but that didn't
> > help.
> 
> Try blasting the MacOS partition from a boot floppy and re-installing a
> minimal System.

I don't have a working floppy I'm afraid. Till know I fixed that by
attaching a second disc, which I prepared using a PMac.

But recently I've traded my old Performa 5200 for a PMac 4400, which can run
NetBSD. Problem is that it is somewhat hard to dual boot the pmac between
MacOS and NetBSD on that system (since it can't boot from the sec.
controller), so preparing a new, clean disc is sowewhat hard.

> Installing another system over another system, unless you really mean to
> upgrade, is considered bad mojo.

I already considered the installation dead, and to me it is more a
bootloader anyway. But a mandatory one :-)
 
> > 2. Same IIci, same 2Gb external SCSI but before the above problems arose;
> > It refuses to boot from that external SCSI :-)
> > It did before, but then the system disc was a 200 MB partition, not the
> > whole disc.
> > 
> > The NetBSD docs mention that the booter has a problem with booting
> > partitions that extend the first so-and-so much MBs. (+/- 300 MB IIRC). Does
> > that also apply to MacOS?
> 
> You mean the FAQ? That's very old news. My NetBSD partition is almost 2GB
> in size and has no problem starting up from the Booter. I'm running 1.5.2
> and 1.11g (I think, have to check) of the Booter app.

I have had this problem, so it isn't old news I'm afraid. I also have 1.5.2
same versions, and I had to adjust.
I took the newest Booter and mkfs versions.

There is more to that,
see also 
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-mac68k/2002/05/29/.html


But coming back to the booting MacOS from external SCSI, since I left out
some data;
- the whole-disc 2GB partition was created using MacOS 8.0 on a Perf5200
  (by letting it initialise). 

- For smaller HDs this worked. (inited by MacOS 8.0 I mean). I can't
remember if I created the smaller partition on the same disc with 8.0 or on
the IIci with 7.5.5


-
To both responding posters: Thanks for your swift response. I've a day off
tomorrow, and now I can try some things.

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IIci doesn't mount

[Marco van de Voort]

(
A.S.
I'm a newbie with Macs.  I actually bought some Macs in the last year to put
NetBSD on them for a OS compilerfarm. But believe me, I *am* trying to
understand MacOS :-)
The IIci requires MacOS, so I boot through MacOS to get to BSD. The other
Mac is a PMac 4400 running NetBSD.
I'd be happy to answer 68k NetBSD questions, but keep in mind I only started
about half an year ago.
)

I've two questions:

1. Currently, when I boot my IIci with an external HD attached, the icon for
the external SCSI disc doesn't show up.  The disc has a large 2 GB Hfs
partition, nothing else, SCSI IDs aren't changed, and the disc works fine
connected to the PMac (both underMacOS as hfsutil)

I think I know the cause, I had a problem with my DayStar accel(using
powercentral made booting NetBSD impossible), and tried to remove its
software as a MacOS nitwit. I probably removed something I shouldn't have
:-)   I already tried to install a minimal 7.5.5 over it, but that didn't
help.

2. Same IIci, same 2Gb external SCSI but before the above problems arose;
It refuses to boot from that external SCSI :-)
It did before, but then the system disc was a 200 MB partition, not the
whole disc.

The NetBSD docs mention that the booter has a problem with booting
partitions that extend the first so-and-so much MBs. (+/- 300 MB IIRC). Does
that also apply to MacOS?



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