Re: Moderator's note Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad
Hello Bob. Normally I do send messages privately to the individual who needs a personal moderator note for list behavior. However this is one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'll explain. If I keep messages private to someone who needs a moderator message then I get messages from list members asking me why I haven't dealt with the offender. The reason is because it looks like I'm not doing anything. Now, if I handle it publicly, then I get a message on list, instead of privately I might add, about how I'm attacking a list member and that I should have done it privately. Perhaps you should have written me privately to follow your own advice? In any case, I don't like having to put people on list moderation because it generates more work for me and because I think that most everyone here is an adult and can conduct themselves accordingly. I could take the extreme approach and just revoke posting privileges completely, but I don't choose to go that route either. Moderating a list can be a tough job because you risk alienating people when you have to perform your duties. In my business I have to keep good relationships because I'm in the access technology training field. It's been suggested that I should not moderate a list whose topic covers what I teach clients because of a conflict of interest, but I don't see it that way. I see this list as an overall positive forum with a lot of good information and good networking for iOS and iThingy users. I love the iPhone and iOS and want to be a part of a community such as this list. Since I have list moderating experience and since a moderator was needed when Cara needed help, I volunteered, and here I am. If you have a problem with how the list is handled, please write me or Cara Quinn off list and we will do our best to explain why something was done, or to fix the problem. Earlier this week I had to write a message to someone who I consider a friend to tell him about some list conduct problems. I didn't like doing that, but it's something I had to do for the good of the list in general. I could have avoided that and simply moderated his postings, but I chose to talk to him about it instead. As far as I know things have worked out just fine. However no one knows about that because I didn't post about it. So, why did I write to Bryan publicly? In case you are wondering, it wasn't to attack him or make an example of him. It was because I want the list to know that this isn't the kind of behavior we the list owner and moderator tolerate. This kind of thing has been happening a lot more of late as you pointed out, and if I keep all of this private, then it looks like I'm not doing anything about it. So, again, I'm back at square 1. Thanks for reading this, and now, let's truly close this topic. If anyone else has any issues with this, write me or Cara privately. If anyone doesn't agree with a list decision I've made, write Cara directly and let her know. Thank you all. -- Raul A. Gallegos Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/9/2013 8:27 AM, Robert Fenton wrote: Hello everybody: I don't usually respond to notes such as this but I am noticing a very disturbing trend on this list when discussions get heated and the moderators have to step in. While I generally support the moderators in breaking up the disputes, some of the tactics being used for doing so only serve to demonstrate or emulate the behaviors that were problematic in the first place. The note below is a good example of this problem. In attempting to raise concerns about behavior that needed to be dealt with where one list member was attacking others, the moderator used this forum to in turn attack the offender. Rather than proceeding this way, could the moderators consider sending a message like the one below solely to the perceived offender while, at the same time, notifying the rest of the specific infraction, the behavioral standard that is expected and that the matter has been raised directly with the person who breached the behavioral standard? That way, other list members can pattern good behaviors rather than problematic ones in circumstances like this. Thanks for listening. Bob Fenton Sent from my iPhone On 2013-05-08, at 9:16 PM, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote: Hello Bryan and everyone else. Let's close this thread now. I've already stated that I don't think Eileen's original message was done wrong, and so keeping this discussion going is not really doing anything other than taking up time and inbox space. Bryan, someone has already given you the app description which you could have gotten on your own with the link provided in the original email. So, at least you have that in case you don't have the skills to follow the link yourself to get the information. In the future, you might try posting a message which doesn't come off rude, like what you said to
RE: Moderator's note Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad
Raul, Just to let you know, you are doing a fantastic job at moderating this list. When you have a family with 2 or 3 kids, there is always one who is not happy with something like meals or the size of his/her room or having to go to bed too early so, imagine a family of 1500 kids and you've got your answer as to exactly why you will never make everyone happy. Keep up the good work because most of us appreciate the bang-up job you are doing. And, in case you still are wondering, I don't think at all that you are in a conflict of interest. On the contrary you know what you are talking about. Act like a duck, let the water flow over your feathers and keep your head up high. Ron Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 7:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Moderator's note Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad Hello Bob. Normally I do send messages privately to the individual who needs a personal moderator note for list behavior. However this is one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'll explain. If I keep messages private to someone who needs a moderator message then I get messages from list members asking me why I haven't dealt with the offender. The reason is because it looks like I'm not doing anything. Now, if I handle it publicly, then I get a message on list, instead of privately I might add, about how I'm attacking a list member and that I should have done it privately. Perhaps you should have written me privately to follow your own advice? In any case, I don't like having to put people on list moderation because it generates more work for me and because I think that most everyone here is an adult and can conduct themselves accordingly. I could take the extreme approach and just revoke posting privileges completely, but I don't choose to go that route either. Moderating a list can be a tough job because you risk alienating people when you have to perform your duties. In my business I have to keep good relationships because I'm in the access technology training field. It's been suggested that I should not moderate a list whose topic covers what I teach clients because of a conflict of interest, but I don't see it that way. I see this list as an overall positive forum with a lot of good information and good networking for iOS and iThingy users. I love the iPhone and iOS and want to be a part of a community such as this list. Since I have list moderating experience and since a moderator was needed when Cara needed help, I volunteered, and here I am. If you have a problem with how the list is handled, please write me or Cara Quinn off list and we will do our best to explain why something was done, or to fix the problem. Earlier this week I had to write a message to someone who I consider a friend to tell him about some list conduct problems. I didn't like doing that, but it's something I had to do for the good of the list in general. I could have avoided that and simply moderated his postings, but I chose to talk to him about it instead. As far as I know things have worked out just fine. However no one knows about that because I didn't post about it. So, why did I write to Bryan publicly? In case you are wondering, it wasn't to attack him or make an example of him. It was because I want the list to know that this isn't the kind of behavior we the list owner and moderator tolerate. This kind of thing has been happening a lot more of late as you pointed out, and if I keep all of this private, then it looks like I'm not doing anything about it. So, again, I'm back at square 1. Thanks for reading this, and now, let's truly close this topic. If anyone else has any issues with this, write me or Cara privately. If anyone doesn't agree with a list decision I've made, write Cara directly and let her know. Thank you all. -- Raul A. Gallegos Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/9/2013 8:27 AM, Robert Fenton wrote: Hello everybody: I don't usually respond to notes such as this but I am noticing a very disturbing trend on this list when discussions get heated and the moderators have to step in. While I generally support the moderators in breaking up the disputes, some of the tactics being used for doing so only serve to demonstrate or emulate the behaviors that were problematic in the first place. The note below is a good example of this problem. In attempting to raise concerns about behavior that needed to be dealt with where one list member was attacking others, the moderator used this forum to in turn attack the offender. Rather than proceeding this way, could the moderators consider sending a message like the one below solely to the perceived offender while, at the same time, notifying the rest of the specific infraction, the behavioral standard that is expected and that the matter has been raised
Re: Moderator's note Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad
Sorry, Raul. I replied to Lauren's message before I realized that you'd closed the topic. :) Thanks, Ari On May 8, 2013, at 8:16 PM, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote: Hello Bryan and everyone else. Let's close this thread now. I've already stated that I don't think Eileen's original message was done wrong, and so keeping this discussion going is not really doing anything other than taking up time and inbox space. Bryan, someone has already given you the app description which you could have gotten on your own with the link provided in the original email. So, at least you have that in case you don't have the skills to follow the link yourself to get the information. In the future, you might try posting a message which doesn't come off rude, like what you said to Christopher and to Rick. If you don't have the skills necessary to follow a link yourself, please say so. If you just don't have the time, which is what I think you actually said, then simply erase the message and move on and only read messages from list members who copy and paste the app description page into their emails. Upon reading the thread, you specifically said to Christopher: hi, no, as i don't have time to play with a phone all day and read what 100s of apps can do. That tells me that you have the skills but choose to not invest the time. Then later to Rick you said: that's the attitude i expected when ignorant perceived power users don't give a squat about others just getting started with their phone! So, that right there could be taken as you don't have the skills necessary to look up app information on your own. maybe Rick intimidated you by his honest approach. I don't know, so I can't assume. What I do know is that you seem to be the only one having issues with this. And if you are not, then others who do are not voicing it out loud on the list and wasting everyone's time. Thanks, and I hope you had the time to at least read this message. -- Raul A. Gallegos Soft kitty, Warm kitty, Little ball of fur. Happy kitty, Sleepy kitty, Purr, purr, purr. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/8/2013 8:19 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote: hi, i didn't initially read more because i was just wanting to know why it was better than the similar feature already loaded. think away Bryan Schulz - Original Message - From: Lynda Ingraham lynda.ingra...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:25 PM Subject: RE: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad Hi Brian, I think you are being very rude and disrespectful to the list in general and to the individuals who posted the information about Note Master specifically. I have been a member of this list for approximately four years. My experience has been excellent. On more than one occasion when I have had a problem that I just couldn't figure out, people have offered to contact me off list to help. I think if you had expressed your desire to have someone provide you more information in a polite manner, you would have received many more individuals offering assistance. Basically, you told us, your time is valuable and that you don't have time to look up information you are interested in having and that we are all a bunch of power users that don't give a squat about helping new people. Please be honest and ask yourself how interested you would be to respond to a message with this attitude and tone? An excellent resource for reading about apps that are voice over accessible is applevis.com. Regards, Lynda -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:16 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad that's the attitude i expected when ignorant perceived power users don't give a squat about others just getting started with their phone! Bryan Schulz - Original Message - From: Rick Alfaro rick.alf...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad totally agree here. the link was included which was enough info. Don't pay any attention to those that talk about courtesy and seem to have none themselves and want others to do the work for them. I appreciated the info and link as well. Best, Rick alfaro On 5/8/2013 1:52 PM, John Diakogeorgiou wrote: Eilleen: Thanks for the info. I had the lite version and updated. I especially appreciate that you provided the link so that people could look for themselves at the features of the app rather than having to rely on others to do it for them. On 5/8/13, Cris Ali filasti...@hotmail.com wrote: Nice description. I downloaded the note master light. How different it is from the paid
Re: Moderator's note Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad
Hello everybody: I don't usually respond to notes such as this but I am noticing a very disturbing trend on this list when discussions get heated and the moderators have to step in. While I generally support the moderators in breaking up the disputes, some of the tactics being used for doing so only serve to demonstrate or emulate the behaviors that were problematic in the first place. The note below is a good example of this problem. In attempting to raise concerns about behavior that needed to be dealt with where one list member was attacking others, the moderator used this forum to in turn attack the offender. Rather than proceeding this way, could the moderators consider sending a message like the one below solely to the perceived offender while, at the same time, notifying the rest of the specific infraction, the behavioral standard that is expected and that the matter has been raised directly with the person who breached the behavioral standard? That way, other list members can pattern good behaviors rather than problematic ones in circumstances like this. Thanks for listening. Bob Fenton Sent from my iPhone On 2013-05-08, at 9:16 PM, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote: Hello Bryan and everyone else. Let's close this thread now. I've already stated that I don't think Eileen's original message was done wrong, and so keeping this discussion going is not really doing anything other than taking up time and inbox space. Bryan, someone has already given you the app description which you could have gotten on your own with the link provided in the original email. So, at least you have that in case you don't have the skills to follow the link yourself to get the information. In the future, you might try posting a message which doesn't come off rude, like what you said to Christopher and to Rick. If you don't have the skills necessary to follow a link yourself, please say so. If you just don't have the time, which is what I think you actually said, then simply erase the message and move on and only read messages from list members who copy and paste the app description page into their emails. Upon reading the thread, you specifically said to Christopher: hi, no, as i don't have time to play with a phone all day and read what 100s of apps can do. That tells me that you have the skills but choose to not invest the time. Then later to Rick you said: that's the attitude i expected when ignorant perceived power users don't give a squat about others just getting started with their phone! So, that right there could be taken as you don't have the skills necessary to look up app information on your own. maybe Rick intimidated you by his honest approach. I don't know, so I can't assume. What I do know is that you seem to be the only one having issues with this. And if you are not, then others who do are not voicing it out loud on the list and wasting everyone's time. Thanks, and I hope you had the time to at least read this message. -- Raul A. Gallegos Soft kitty, Warm kitty, Little ball of fur. Happy kitty, Sleepy kitty, Purr, purr, purr. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/8/2013 8:19 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote: hi, i didn't initially read more because i was just wanting to know why it was better than the similar feature already loaded. think away Bryan Schulz - Original Message - From: Lynda Ingraham lynda.ingra...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:25 PM Subject: RE: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad Hi Brian, I think you are being very rude and disrespectful to the list in general and to the individuals who posted the information about Note Master specifically. I have been a member of this list for approximately four years. My experience has been excellent. On more than one occasion when I have had a problem that I just couldn't figure out, people have offered to contact me off list to help. I think if you had expressed your desire to have someone provide you more information in a polite manner, you would have received many more individuals offering assistance. Basically, you told us, your time is valuable and that you don't have time to look up information you are interested in having and that we are all a bunch of power users that don't give a squat about helping new people. Please be honest and ask yourself how interested you would be to respond to a message with this attitude and tone? An excellent resource for reading about apps that are voice over accessible is applevis.com. Regards, Lynda -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:16 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Note Master on sale for both the iPhone and iPad that's the attitude i expected when
