RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[rajmund]

Hi,
Well, I beg, don't buy the Apex.  I actually tried experimenting 
with an mpower and IOS, couldn't quite get them to like each 
other.


Sent from a BrailleNote

- Original Message -
From: "Rose Combs" My  Braille Note  is a mPower, not able to connect to my iPhone.  
Not at this time able to update, besides with HW moving to Canada 
and needing to at least understand French-Canadian when calling, 
I am done buying from them despite my first BN being better than 
sliced bread for me.



Rose Combs
roseco...@q.com
A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three 
times the memory!



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of rajmund

Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 1:58 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

Hi,
Agree, I personally didn't want IOS, to then get an extra note
taker, or a keyboard.  I use on screen braille, both on the 5s,
and the iPad air, and would not give it up for anything.

Sent from a BrailleNote

- Original Message -
From: Krister Ekstrom http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[rajmund]

Hi,
I always remember how embarrassing dictation can be, and that 
puts me off it, immediately, for once and all.  Try telling your 
students? It might help.


Sent from a BrailleNote

- Original Message -
From: Wayne Merritt First of all, you are asking if your opinion is wrong, and I 
would say
no.  Personally, I choose to use the virtual keyboard most times.  
It
does take a little longer if I use one finger to type but it gets 
the
job done.  I have also used a Bluetooth keyboard, Braille screen 
input,

and the no longer available Fleksy VO app to type in different
situations.  Usually I will use the on screen virtual keyboard, 
but if
I have to write a longer text I use Fleksy VO.  I have also used 
the

Perkins keyboard on my Focus 14 Blue Braille display.  If I were
teaching someone that has never used an iOS device before, I 
would
train them at first on the virtual keyboard, since I think there 
is a
high value in using what comes natively on the device.  After 
they have
mastered the virtual keyboard and understand cursor movement, 
then I
might move them up to a Bluetooth keyboard or Siri, but only 
after
they have mastered the virtual keyboard.  Having options is 
great, but
what is even better is being able to choose among those options 
in
different situations or environments, and not just always relying 
upon
one or two methods because that is what one is used to or has 
always
used.  I have worked with students before that always use Siri, 
and

getting them to switch to a different method can be like pulling
teeth.  Some people can't switch due to various limitations.  I 
will

often ask them, "So how well will Siri work if you are in a noisy
place or waiting for the bus and there's lots of traffic?" 
Anyway,

sorry for the rant; just brought to mind teachable moments and
different skill levels and people.

Just my thoughts,
Wayne

On 2/16/16, Rose Combs  wrote:
Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only 
that I was
given by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for 
him.  It came
with a keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small 
and no

travel, made so many errors with it that I gave up on using it.

Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the 
iPad, did
for mail when my computer was down but could not when the 
internet went down
last fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I 
did not.




Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom 
but I am
missing something, it has not worked but I know it did on his 
mini and
iPhone, both of which have been passed on to other people.  
Keyboard was
new, gave it to him four days before he passed for his birthday, 
he liked it
and it does have a great touch but I have not gotten it to 
connect, if there
is a key that needs to be pressed I have not found it, wish I 
had because
for a Bluetooth it has the best touch I have ever used.  Have 
Amazon Basics
now, it is okay, at least I can tell when it is on or off, just 
connected to

my phone.

My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite 
changing settings
which is one reason I don't give it much of a workout these 
days, I would
sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 
2013 after I

showed Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.

Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom 
touch it, not

even sure if it is updated from 8.





Rose Combs

 <mailto:roseco...@q.com> roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three 
times the

memory!



From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf

Of Alan Paganelli
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?



Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days 
of Dos.
Before that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 
'wanna tell ya
how long ago that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it 
works great
for text messages, short notes, and from time to time, a 
personal log entry.
 What I'm saying here is, my first choice is to type it.  A 
keyboard case

gives me all the options I need.



Alan



Sent from my iPad Air


On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs  wrote:

I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more 
than 50 years
and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to 
thinking

ahead and make a mess unless it is just a very short message.





Rose Combs

roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three 
times the

memory!



From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf

Of Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?



Your reasoning isn't flawed

RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Rose Combs]

My  Braille Note  is a mPower, not able to connect to my iPhone.  Not at this 
time able to update, besides with HW moving to Canada and needing to at least 
understand French-Canadian when calling, I am done buying from them despite my 
first BN being better than sliced bread for me.  


Rose Combs
roseco...@q.com
A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the memory!


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
rajmund
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 1:58 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

Hi,
Agree, I personally didn't want IOS, to then get an extra note 
taker, or a keyboard.  I use on screen braille, both on the 5s, 
and the iPad air, and would not give it up for anything.

Sent from a BrailleNote

 - Original Message -
From: Krister Ekstrom http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[rajmund]

Hi,
Agree, I personally didn't want IOS, to then get an extra note 
taker, or a keyboard.  I use on screen braille, both on the 5s, 
and the iPad air, and would not give it up for anything.


Sent from a BrailleNote

- Original Message -
From: Krister Ekstrom This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so.  I merely 
want to test my opinion in a matter where i more or less have 
been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the 
iDevices to know their device thoroughly so that they don't get 
stuck somewhere if things happen and so that they themselves can 
make an informed choice about for example what input method to 
use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you'll have to 
learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to 
decide if you want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although 
i have a little cute one sitting around here.  Now i'm 
exclusively using Fleksy for my typing needs, and sometimes when 
i'm in a hurry to make a calendar appointment for example i use 
Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards but 
before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don't want to carry many 
gadgets with me all the time, but those are my choices, so please 
tell me what in my opinion is wrong because i am apparently so 
dence i can't understand it.  What in my reasoning is flawed?

/Krister

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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Angie Nutt]

Hi,

I didn’t use a bluetooth keyboard until 6 months after getting my first iPhone; 
I was determined to get used to the onscreen one. Even now I only use a 
hardware keyboard to type long documents. My present one is too big for what I 
call my going away handbag so I no longer take it on holiday with me.

This morning I used it for Facebook and Twitter thinking I’d be quicker but 
found I made quite a few mistakes. That’s probably because I don’t use it daily.

All the best
Angie 
> On 16 Feb 2016, at 10:57, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
> my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
> You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
> their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
> happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
> example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
> get to decide if you want to use it or not.
> I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
> little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
> typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry 
> afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
> I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
> all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
> is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
> reasoning is flawed?
> /Krister
> 
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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Gordan Radić]

 or off, just connected to my phone.  
My
iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch
despite changing settings which is one reason I
don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would
sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in
late August 2013 after I showed Tom how to use the
one he bought to use at the hospital.  
Best
part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I
seldom touch it, not even sure if it is updated from
8.  
 
 

  Rose
  Combs
  roseco...@q.com
  A
  picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes
  up three times the memory!

 

  
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Paganelli
Sent: Tuesday,
February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
                Subject: Re: Why
do we want to use a physical keyboard?
  

 

  Rose,
I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the
days of Dos.  Before that, I learned to type in
grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya how long ago
that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it
works great for text messages, short notes, and from
time to time, a personal log entry.  What I'm saying
here is, my first choice is to type it.  A keyboard
case gives me all the options I need.


   
  
Alan
  
  
 
  
  Sent
from my iPad Air


  
On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs <roseco...@q.com>
wrote:


  
I use a Bluetooth keyboard
because I have been typing for more than 50
years and am much faster with one, using the
onscreen model I get to thinking ahead and make
a mess unless it is just a very short message.  
 
 

  Rose Combs
  roseco...@q.com
  A picture may be
  worth a thousand words but it takes up three
  times the memory!

 

  
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Tuesday,
February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroups.com
        Subject: Re:
Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
  

 

  Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I
use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm faster at
it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often
reverted to typing exactly where I touched,
which means it was garbage being typed. So I
deleted that, because having to restart
voiceover whenever that happened, whih was often
for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input,
however amazing, means that I'd have to turn my
device to landscape mode, type, correct any
mistakes, twist the rotor, or do the "back"
gesture, and find the send button or whatever.
With a keyboard, I can just navigate, using the
keyboard, to the place where I want to type,
type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik,
Whatsapp, and countless other apps, just press
enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, I'd
press command+enter to aut

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Marie]

Well, I for one tend to agree with you. I tried a blue tooth keyboard but 
not for long. I want the ease of having just the IPhone or ITouch and no 
extra device to haul around. I learned early to use the stock on screen 
keyboard and can do a pretty respectable job with it. And I use Siri and 
dictation to fil in so I have a much mor portable solution.

Marie


-Original Message- 
From: Krister Ekstrom

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 2:57 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
get to decide if you want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?

/Krister

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RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Devin Prater]

I had a k760, but the keyboard was dropped once and the solar panels broke, so 
no more k760 for me now, but the keys2go from Logitech is really good too.

Sent from Outlook Mobile
>From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com




On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 4:18 PM -0800, "Teresa Christian" 
 wrote:










I also prefer a physical keyboard. I can text using the screen keyboard and do 
at times, but I am very slow so it is quite tedius.

I have a Logitec K760 that does not use batteries, it uses a solar panel and 
that is extremely nice.

I have a Braille Edge 40 and do love that. I did a dumb thing though. 1 time 
out of 100, when I had an open bottle of soda near the Edge, it got knocked 
over and, yep, so I am paying dearly for that 2 seconds of carelessness! Boy oh 
boy!

Teresa




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jim Portillo
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 4:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

I definitely use a keyboard.  Then again, I have a Logitech k-810 keyboard, 
which is paired to my laptop, phone, and tablet.  It definitely comes in handy.
I tend to write long emails, and if I have to do it on my phone, I'd definitely 
have to use the physical keyboard.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Arnold Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 4:05 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

For purposes of full disclosure, I have an Amazon Basics Bluetooth keyboard 
that I bought not long after I got my iPhone 5 in 2012.  Since getting 
MBraille, I don't think I have used it at all, I know I haven't used it with my 
iPhone 6, which I got in April, 2015.  Thankfully, I remembered to take the 
batteries out of my keyboard before they corroded and ruined my keyboard.  That 
having been written, I am still glad I have it even though I 
almost never use it now.  If I were taking notes in a classroom   or meeting 
situation, my keyboard is what I would want to use.  Also, if I were going to 
use Access Note, or Pages, or Microsoft Office on my iPhone, MBraille just 
wouldn't "cut it", as it were.  I can use the on screen keyboard, but am very 
slow at it.  For every day use, if I am going to type more than a few words, it 
is MBraille for me, mainly because of its basic word processing features.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: "Krister Ekstrom" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:57 AM
Subject: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?


Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test my 
opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar appointment 
for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards 
but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me all 
the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion is 
wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister

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RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Teresa Christian]

I also prefer a physical keyboard. I can text using the screen keyboard and do 
at times, but I am very slow so it is quite tedius.

I have a Logitec K760 that does not use batteries, it uses a solar panel and 
that is extremely nice.

I have a Braille Edge 40 and do love that. I did a dumb thing though. 1 time 
out of 100, when I had an open bottle of soda near the Edge, it got knocked 
over and, yep, so I am paying dearly for that 2 seconds of carelessness! Boy oh 
boy!

Teresa




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jim Portillo
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 4:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

I definitely use a keyboard.  Then again, I have a Logitech k-810 keyboard, 
which is paired to my laptop, phone, and tablet.  It definitely comes in handy.
I tend to write long emails, and if I have to do it on my phone, I'd definitely 
have to use the physical keyboard.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Arnold Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 4:05 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

For purposes of full disclosure, I have an Amazon Basics Bluetooth keyboard 
that I bought not long after I got my iPhone 5 in 2012.  Since getting 
MBraille, I don't think I have used it at all, I know I haven't used it with my 
iPhone 6, which I got in April, 2015.  Thankfully, I remembered to take the 
batteries out of my keyboard before they corroded and ruined my keyboard.  That 
having been written, I am still glad I have it even though I 
almost never use it now.  If I were taking notes in a classroom   or meeting 
situation, my keyboard is what I would want to use.  Also, if I were going to 
use Access Note, or Pages, or Microsoft Office on my iPhone, MBraille just 
wouldn't "cut it", as it were.  I can use the on screen keyboard, but am very 
slow at it.  For every day use, if I am going to type more than a few words, it 
is MBraille for me, mainly because of its basic word processing features.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: "Krister Ekstrom" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:57 AM
Subject: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?


Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test my 
opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar appointment 
for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards 
but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me all 
the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion is 
wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister

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RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Jim Portillo]

I definitely use a keyboard.  Then again, I have a Logitech k-810 keyboard, 
which is paired to my laptop, phone, and tablet.  It definitely comes in handy.
I tend to write long emails, and if I have to do it on my phone, I'd definitely 
have to use the physical keyboard.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Arnold Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 4:05 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

For purposes of full disclosure, I have an Amazon Basics Bluetooth keyboard 
that I bought not long after I got my iPhone 5 in 2012.  Since getting 
MBraille, I don't think I have used it at all, I know I haven't used it with my 
iPhone 6, which I got in April, 2015.  Thankfully, I remembered to take the 
batteries out of my keyboard before they corroded and ruined my keyboard.  That 
having been written, I am still glad I have it even though I 
almost never use it now.  If I were taking notes in a classroom   or meeting 
situation, my keyboard is what I would want to use.  Also, if I were going to 
use Access Note, or Pages, or Microsoft Office on my iPhone, MBraille just 
wouldn't "cut it", as it were.  I can use the on screen keyboard, but am very 
slow at it.  For every day use, if I am going to type more than a few words, it 
is MBraille for me, mainly because of its basic word processing features.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: "Krister Ekstrom" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:57 AM
Subject: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?


Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
get to decide if you want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister

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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Arnold Schmidt]

For purposes of full disclosure, I have an Amazon Basics Bluetooth keyboard 
that I bought not long after I got my iPhone 5 in 2012.  Since getting 
MBraille, I don't think I have used it at all, I know I haven't used it with 
my iPhone 6, which I got in April, 2015.  Thankfully, I remembered to take 
the batteries out of my keyboard before they corroded and ruined my 
keyboard.  That having been written, I am still glad I have it even though I 
almost never use it now.  If I were taking notes in a classroom   or meeting 
situation, my keyboard is what I would want to use.  Also, if I were going 
to use Access Note, or Pages, or Microsoft Office on my iPhone, MBraille 
just wouldn't "cut it", as it were.  I can use the on screen keyboard, but 
am very slow at it.  For every day use, if I am going to type more than a 
few words, it is MBraille for me, mainly because of its basic word 
processing features.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: "Krister Ekstrom" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:57 AM
Subject: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?


Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
get to decide if you want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?

/Krister

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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Devin Prater]

Oh believe me, I had to do just that last year, when I didn't have my Bluetooth 
keyboard, and my Vario Ultra was sitting in some warehouse in Germany. It took 
some getting used to, and I could manage it, but I didn't like it. Getting into 
and out of braille screen input was bothersome, correcting mistakes sometimes 
took swiping down five or six times, just to find that the word I typed wasn't 
in that list and having to recalibrate the dots and type again. It was all very 
slow. The onscreen keyboard was horribly slow for me. I soon was sort of able 
to type in direct touch typing mode, but I made plenty of errors. But with my 
Bluetooth keyboard now, I can type quickly, without errors, and best of all for 
me, it's quiet unless autocorrect comes up with suggestions. I have the 
Logitech Keys to go, and the VarioUltra, and love them both.

Sent from Outlook Mobile
>From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com




On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:15 PM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom" 
 wrote:










Exactly my centiments, that’s what i’m trying to say, that we have to learn 
what comes natively on the device  before we even can make an informed choice, 
plus if worst comes to worst as you use another input method, you can always 
fall back on the first one./Krister
16 feb. 2016 kl. 21:18 skrev Wayne Merritt :
First of all, you are asking if your opinion is wrong, and I would say
no. Personally, I choose to use the virtual keyboard most times. It
does take a little longer if I use one finger to type but it gets the
job done. I have also used a Bluetooth keyboard, Braille screen input,
and the no longer available Fleksy VO app to type in different
situations. Usually I will use the on screen virtual keyboard, but if
I have to write a longer text I use Fleksy VO. I have also used the
Perkins keyboard on my Focus 14 Blue Braille display. If I were
teaching someone that has never used an iOS device before, I would
train them at first on the virtual keyboard, since I think there is a
high value in using what comes natively on the device. After they have
mastered the virtual keyboard and understand cursor movement, then I
might move them up to a Bluetooth keyboard or Siri, but only after
they have mastered the virtual keyboard. Having options is great, but
what is even better is being able to choose among those options in
different situations or environments, and not just always relying upon
one or two methods because that is what one is used to or has always
used. I have worked with students before that always use Siri, and
getting them to switch to a different method can be like pulling
teeth. Some people can't switch due to various limitations. I will
often ask them, "So how well will Siri work if you are in a noisy
place or waiting for the bus and there's lots of traffic?" Anyway,
sorry for the rant; just brought to mind teachable moments and
different skill levels and people.

Just my thoughts,
Wayne

On 2/16/16, Rose Combs  wrote:
Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only that I was
given by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for him.  It came
with a keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small and no
travel, made so many errors with it that I gave up on using it.

Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the iPad, did
for mail when my computer was down but could not when the internet went down
last fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I did not.



Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom but I am
missing something, it has not worked but I know it did on his mini and
iPhone, both of which have been passed on to other people.  Keyboard was
new, gave it to him four days before he passed for his birthday, he liked it
and it does have a great touch but I have not gotten it to connect, if there
is a key that needs to be pressed I have not found it, wish I had because
for a Bluetooth it has the best touch I have ever used.  Have Amazon Basics
now, it is okay, at least I can tell when it is on or off, just connected to
my phone.

My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite changing settings
which is one reason I don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would
sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 2013 after I
showed Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.

Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom touch it, not
even sure if it is updated from 8.





Rose Combs

<mailto:roseco...@q.com> roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the
memory!



From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Alan Paganelli
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?



Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.
Before th

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Exactly my centiments, that’s what i’m trying to say, that we have to learn 
what comes natively on the device  before we even can make an informed choice, 
plus if worst comes to worst as you use another input method, you can always 
fall back on the first one.
/Krister

> 16 feb. 2016 kl. 21:18 skrev Wayne Merritt :
> 
> First of all, you are asking if your opinion is wrong, and I would say
> no. Personally, I choose to use the virtual keyboard most times. It
> does take a little longer if I use one finger to type but it gets the
> job done. I have also used a Bluetooth keyboard, Braille screen input,
> and the no longer available Fleksy VO app to type in different
> situations. Usually I will use the on screen virtual keyboard, but if
> I have to write a longer text I use Fleksy VO. I have also used the
> Perkins keyboard on my Focus 14 Blue Braille display. If I were
> teaching someone that has never used an iOS device before, I would
> train them at first on the virtual keyboard, since I think there is a
> high value in using what comes natively on the device. After they have
> mastered the virtual keyboard and understand cursor movement, then I
> might move them up to a Bluetooth keyboard or Siri, but only after
> they have mastered the virtual keyboard. Having options is great, but
> what is even better is being able to choose among those options in
> different situations or environments, and not just always relying upon
> one or two methods because that is what one is used to or has always
> used. I have worked with students before that always use Siri, and
> getting them to switch to a different method can be like pulling
> teeth. Some people can't switch due to various limitations. I will
> often ask them, "So how well will Siri work if you are in a noisy
> place or waiting for the bus and there's lots of traffic?" Anyway,
> sorry for the rant; just brought to mind teachable moments and
> different skill levels and people.
> 
> Just my thoughts,
> Wayne
> 
> On 2/16/16, Rose Combs mailto:roseco...@q.com>> wrote:
>> Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only that I was
>> given by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for him.  It came
>> with a keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small and no
>> travel, made so many errors with it that I gave up on using it.
>> 
>> Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the iPad, did
>> for mail when my computer was down but could not when the internet went down
>> last fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I did not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom but I am
>> missing something, it has not worked but I know it did on his mini and
>> iPhone, both of which have been passed on to other people.  Keyboard was
>> new, gave it to him four days before he passed for his birthday, he liked it
>> and it does have a great touch but I have not gotten it to connect, if there
>> is a key that needs to be pressed I have not found it, wish I had because
>> for a Bluetooth it has the best touch I have ever used.  Have Amazon Basics
>> now, it is okay, at least I can tell when it is on or off, just connected to
>> my phone.
>> 
>> My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite changing settings
>> which is one reason I don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would
>> sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 2013 after I
>> showed Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.
>> 
>> Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom touch it, not
>> even sure if it is updated from 8.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rose Combs
>> 
>> <mailto:roseco...@q.com <mailto:roseco...@q.com>> roseco...@q.com 
>> <mailto:roseco...@q.com>
>> 
>> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the
>> memory!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
>> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf
>> Of Alan Paganelli
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.
>> Before that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya
>> how long ago that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it works great
>> fo

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
I think it is interesting with all the viewpoints that come up. I guess though 
that i’ll never be able to fully grasp why someone skips over the internal 
keyboard for an external one. I for my part, would be totally screaming mad if 
for any reason my physical keyboard would break and i had to fall back on the 
internal one and if i couldn’t manage it. Don’t get me wrong here, please, but 
wouldn’t it be good to have something to fall back on just in case?
I can understand if someone wants to use another input method than the standard 
one for longish texts, like blogs and the like, i don’t say anything about 
that, but i myself am feeling more confident knowing i have many options to 
fall back on should one not work. Hope this didn’t come through too criticising 
or something, i just want to try to understand this.
/Krister

> 16 feb. 2016 kl. 18:04 skrev Rose Combs :
> 
> Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only that I was given 
> by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for him.  It came with a 
> keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small and no travel, made 
> so many errors with it that I gave up on using it.  
> Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the iPad, did for 
> mail when my computer was down but could not when the internet went down last 
> fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I did not.  
>  
> Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom but I am 
> missing something, it has not worked but I know it did on his mini and 
> iPhone, both of which have been passed on to other people.  Keyboard was new, 
> gave it to him four days before he passed for his birthday, he liked it and 
> it does have a great touch but I have not gotten it to connect, if there is a 
> key that needs to be pressed I have not found it, wish I had because for a 
> Bluetooth it has the best touch I have ever used.  Have Amazon Basics now, it 
> is okay, at least I can tell when it is on or off, just connected to my 
> phone.  
> My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite changing settings 
> which is one reason I don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would 
> sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 2013 after I 
> showed Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.  
> Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom touch it, not 
> even sure if it is updated from 8.  
>  
>  
> Rose Combs
> roseco...@q.com <mailto:roseco...@q.com>
> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the 
> memory!
>  
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Alan Paganelli
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
>  
> Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.  
> Before that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya how 
> long ago that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it works great for 
> text messages, short notes, and from time to time, a personal log entry.  
> What I'm saying here is, my first choice is to type it.  A keyboard case 
> gives me all the options I need.
>  
> 
> Alan
>  
> Sent from my iPad Air
> 
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs  <mailto:roseco...@q.com>> wrote:
> 
>> I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more than 50 years 
>> and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to thinking 
>> ahead and make a mess unless it is just a very short message.  
>>  
>>  
>> Rose Combs
>> roseco...@q.com <mailto:roseco...@q.com>
>> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the 
>> memory!
>>  
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
>> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>] On 
>> Behalf Of Devin Prater
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>; 
>> viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
>>  
>> Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm 
>> faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted to 
>> typing exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being typed. So I 
>> deleted that, because having to restart voiceover whenever that happened, 
>> whih was often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input, however 
>> amazing, means that

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Wayne Merritt]

First of all, you are asking if your opinion is wrong, and I would say
no. Personally, I choose to use the virtual keyboard most times. It
does take a little longer if I use one finger to type but it gets the
job done. I have also used a Bluetooth keyboard, Braille screen input,
and the no longer available Fleksy VO app to type in different
situations. Usually I will use the on screen virtual keyboard, but if
I have to write a longer text I use Fleksy VO. I have also used the
Perkins keyboard on my Focus 14 Blue Braille display. If I were
teaching someone that has never used an iOS device before, I would
train them at first on the virtual keyboard, since I think there is a
high value in using what comes natively on the device. After they have
mastered the virtual keyboard and understand cursor movement, then I
might move them up to a Bluetooth keyboard or Siri, but only after
they have mastered the virtual keyboard. Having options is great, but
what is even better is being able to choose among those options in
different situations or environments, and not just always relying upon
one or two methods because that is what one is used to or has always
used. I have worked with students before that always use Siri, and
getting them to switch to a different method can be like pulling
teeth. Some people can't switch due to various limitations. I will
often ask them, "So how well will Siri work if you are in a noisy
place or waiting for the bus and there's lots of traffic?" Anyway,
sorry for the rant; just brought to mind teachable moments and
different skill levels and people.

Just my thoughts,
Wayne

On 2/16/16, Rose Combs  wrote:
> Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only that I was
> given by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for him.  It came
> with a keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small and no
> travel, made so many errors with it that I gave up on using it.
>
> Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the iPad, did
> for mail when my computer was down but could not when the internet went down
> last fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I did not.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom but I am
> missing something, it has not worked but I know it did on his mini and
> iPhone, both of which have been passed on to other people.  Keyboard was
> new, gave it to him four days before he passed for his birthday, he liked it
> and it does have a great touch but I have not gotten it to connect, if there
> is a key that needs to be pressed I have not found it, wish I had because
> for a Bluetooth it has the best touch I have ever used.  Have Amazon Basics
> now, it is okay, at least I can tell when it is on or off, just connected to
> my phone.
>
> My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite changing settings
> which is one reason I don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would
> sell it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 2013 after I
> showed Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.
>
> Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom touch it, not
> even sure if it is updated from 8.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rose Combs
>
>  <mailto:roseco...@q.com> roseco...@q.com
>
> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the
> memory!
>
>
>
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Alan Paganelli
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
>
>
>
> Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.
> Before that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya
> how long ago that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it works great
> for text messages, short notes, and from time to time, a personal log entry.
>  What I'm saying here is, my first choice is to type it.  A keyboard case
> gives me all the options I need.
>
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad Air
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs  wrote:
>
> I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more than 50 years
> and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to thinking
> ahead and make a mess unless it is just a very short message.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rose Combs
>
> roseco...@q.com
>
> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the
> memory!
>
>
>
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Devin Prater
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroup

RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Rose Combs]

Yes, will I have an iPad mini, the original 16 MB, WIFI only that I was given 
by Tom after I showed him how to use the one we got for him.  It came with a 
keyboard cover, but the keys seemed off to me, too small and no travel, made so 
many errors with it that I gave up on using it.  

Since I have been alone for the past 20 months I seldom use the iPad, did for 
mail when my computer was down but could not when the internet went down last 
fall, maybe I could have used the phone to connect it but I did not.  

 

Anyway, I tried to connect the Logitech keyboard I got for Tom but I am missing 
something, it has not worked but I know it did on his mini and iPhone, both of 
which have been passed on to other people.  Keyboard was new, gave it to him 
four days before he passed for his birthday, he liked it and it does have a 
great touch but I have not gotten it to connect, if there is a key that needs 
to be pressed I have not found it, wish I had because for a Bluetooth it has 
the best touch I have ever used.  Have Amazon Basics now, it is okay, at least 
I can tell when it is on or off, just connected to my phone.  

My iPad mini seems to have super sensitive touch despite changing settings 
which is one reason I don’t give it much of a workout these days, I would sell 
it but it is a dinosaur these days, bought in late August 2013 after I showed 
Tom how to use the one he bought to use at the hospital.  

Best part is the speaker, for reading books, not bad, I seldom touch it, not 
even sure if it is updated from 8.  

 

 

Rose Combs

 <mailto:roseco...@q.com> roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the memory!

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Alan Paganelli
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:40 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

 

Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.  Before 
that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya how long ago 
that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it works great for text 
messages, short notes, and from time to time, a personal log entry.  What I'm 
saying here is, my first choice is to type it.  A keyboard case gives me all 
the options I need.

 

Alan

 

Sent from my iPad Air


On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs  wrote:

I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more than 50 years 
and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to thinking ahead 
and make a mess unless it is just a very short message.  

 

 

Rose Combs

roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the memory!

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

 

Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm 
faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted to typing 
exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being typed. So I deleted 
that, because having to restart voiceover whenever that happened, whih was 
often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input, however amazing, means 
that I'd have to turn my device to landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, 
twist the rotor, or do the "back" gesture, and find the send button or 
whatever. With a keyboard, I can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the 
place where I want to type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, 
and countless other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, 
I'd press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard 
shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two devices, 
but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a charger, or an 
iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and its chargers, or an 
iPhone and a purse.

Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l> 
>From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

 






On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom" 
 wrote:

Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test my 
opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Alan Paganelli]

Rose, I'm with you.  I have been using computers sense the days of Dos.  Before 
that, I learned to type in grade school and I don't 'wanna tell ya how long ago 
that was!  I like dictation on my iPhone 5s, and it works great for text 
messages, short notes, and from time to time, a personal log entry.  What I'm 
saying here is, my first choice is to type it.  A keyboard case gives me all 
the options I need.


Alan

Sent from my iPad Air

> On Feb 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Rose Combs  wrote:
> 
> I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more than 50 years 
> and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to thinking ahead 
> and make a mess unless it is just a very short message. 
>  
>  
> Rose Combs
> roseco...@q.com
> A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the 
> memory!
>  
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Devin Prater
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?
>  
> Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm 
> faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted to typing 
> exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being typed. So I deleted 
> that, because having to restart voiceover whenever that happened, whih was 
> often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input, however amazing, means 
> that I'd have to turn my device to landscape mode, type, correct any 
> mistakes, twist the rotor, or do the "back" gesture, and find the send button 
> or whatever. With a keyboard, I can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the 
> place where I want to type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, 
> Whatsapp, and countless other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in 
> outlook Mobile, I'd press command+enter to automatically send a message. 
> Other keyboard shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to 
> take two devices, but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and 
> a charger, or an iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and its 
> chargers, or an iPhone and a purse.
> 
> Sent from Outlook Mobile
> From Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
> my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
> You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
> their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
> happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
> example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
> get to decide if you want to use it or not.
> I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
> little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
> typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry 
> afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
> I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
> all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
> is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
> reasoning is flawed?
> /Krister
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is importan

RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Rose Combs]

True, I have friends who use the Braille keyboard Apple has created or mBraille 
or something.  I just can't seem to do that although I wish I could, make too 
many errors and I have read braille all my life and can write it easily on a 
Braille Note, a Focus 14, and a Perkins, just not on the screen LOL.  


Rose Combs
roseco...@q.com
A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the memory!


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 6:06 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

I don't understand your question. There's nothing wrong with choosing to 
use the virtual keyboard and not wanting to carry around extra 
equipment. There's also nothing wrong with someone wanting to use a 
bluetooth keyboard. We have choices, and there's nothing wrong when 
someone chooses to take advantage of their choices.

Also, using a bluetooth keyboard doesn't mean someone isn't using or 
isn't proficient with the virtual keyboard. I primarily use the virtual 
keyboard, but I do have a bluetooth keyboard when I'm using my iPhone as 
a laptop replacement, such as when I'm travelling.

On 16/02/16 06:57, Devin Prater wrote:
> Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because
> I'm faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted
> to typing exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being
> typed. So I deleted that, because having to restart voiceover whenever
> that happened, whih was often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen
> input, however amazing, means that I'd have to turn my device to
> landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, twist the rotor, or do the
> "back" gesture, and find the send button or whatever. With a keyboard, I
> can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the place where I want to
> type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, and countless
> other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, I'd
> press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard
> shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two
> devices, but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a
> charger, or an iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and
> its chargers, or an iPhone and a purse.
>
> Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l>
>  From Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom"
> mailto:kris...@kristersplace.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to 
> test my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
> wrong.
> You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to 
> know their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
> happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
> example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
> get to decide if you want to use it or not.
> I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have 
> a little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for 
> my typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry 
> afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
> I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with 
> me all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my 
> opinion is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What 
> in my reasoning is flawed?
> /Krister
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

RE: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Rose Combs]

I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I have been typing for more than 50 years 
and am much faster with one, using the onscreen model I get to thinking ahead 
and make a mess unless it is just a very short message.  

 

 

Rose Combs

 <mailto:roseco...@q.com> roseco...@q.com

A picture may be worth a thousand words but it takes up three times the memory!

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com; viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

 

Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm 
faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted to typing 
exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being typed. So I deleted 
that, because having to restart voiceover whenever that happened, whih was 
often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input, however amazing, means 
that I'd have to turn my device to landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, 
twist the rotor, or do the "back" gesture, and find the send button or 
whatever. With a keyboard, I can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the 
place where I want to type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, 
and countless other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, 
I'd press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard 
shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two devices, 
but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a charger, or an 
iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and its chargers, or an 
iPhone and a purse.

Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l> 
>From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

 





On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom" 
 wrote:

Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test my 
opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar appointment 
for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards 
but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me all 
the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion is 
wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister
 
-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
For more options, visit htt

Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Alan Paganelli]

gain I point out the keyboard case.  For example, it holds my iPad in a holder 
which looks like a laptop.  The typing keys are where you would expect them to 
be.  The typing keys are Bluetooth.  That's how they get to the iPad.  The case 
can close like a laptop or it can lay with the iPad back on top of the typing 
keys.  In this configuration, if you open an app such as email, the typing keys 
would appear on screen.  So, in this case, you can have it all.  Phisical keys 
or virtual.  They have keyboard cases for all iPhones or iPads.

HTH



Alan

Sent from my iPad Air

> On Feb 16, 2016, at 6:28 AM, Michelle Bernstein  
> wrote:
> 
> I think it depends on where you are starting from and who you are teaching.
> To someone who is losing their eyesight, the thought of using a touch screen 
> keyboard can be quite intimidating and the feel of using a physical keyboard 
> is more comfortable.
>  
> My sense of the people who post on this list is that they tend to be quite 
> experienced with accessibility programs and devices, much more so than the 
> typical person that I meet in person who is learning accessibility, often for 
> the first time.
>  
> I would suggest asking the person if you are teaching them in a classroom 
> setting if they would be more comfortable with a physical keyboard.  
> Accessibility is a big hurdle for those of us who are losing our eyesight, 
> unless you are someone who is already quite adept with the computer.
>  
> Hope this helps a little. Regards, Michelle Bernstein
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 5:57:26 AM UTC-5, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> Hi, 
>> This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
>> my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
>> wrong. 
>> You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
>> their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things 
>> happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for 
>> example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
>> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
>> get to decide if you want to use it or not. 
>> I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
>> little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
>> typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
>> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
>> entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard. 
>> I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
>> all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion 
>> is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
>> reasoning is flawed? 
>> /Krister
> 
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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Michelle Bernstein]

I think it depends on where you are starting from and who you are teaching.
To someone who is losing their eyesight, the thought of using a touch 
screen keyboard can be quite intimidating and the feel of using a physical 
keyboard is more comfortable.
 
My sense of the people who post on this list is that they tend to be 
quite experienced with accessibility programs and devices, much more so 
than the typical person that I meet in person who is learning 
accessibility, often for the first time. 
 
I would suggest asking the person if you are teaching them in a classroom 
setting if they would be more comfortable with a physical keyboard.  
Accessibility is a big hurdle for those of us who are losing our eyesight, 
unless you are someone who is already quite adept with the computer.
 
Hope this helps a little. Regards, Michelle Bernstein
On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 5:57:26 AM UTC-5, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

> Hi, 
> This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to 
> test my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
> wrong. 
> You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to 
> know their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if 
> things happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about 
> for example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
> get to decide if you want to use it or not. 
> I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
> little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for 
> my typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
> entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard. 
> I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with 
> me all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my 
> opinion is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. 
> What in my reasoning is flawed? 
> /Krister 
>
>

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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Ok, that was a good explanation and one i haven’t thought of utilising 
myself.:-) I guess that for some reason i never thought of the iPhone as a 
laptop replacement, partly because i had my iPad mini for that. I sorta reason 
that the iPad was/is more of a note taker of sorts than is an iPhone. Now i 
don’t have an iPad mini anymore, and therefore i have to sorta reevaluate the 
use of the iPhone.
What i thought they thought was wrong was that i wanted for blind folks here in 
Sweden to learn to use the stock keyboard before using anything else. That way 
they won’t get stuck because they can’t use the internal keyboard should 
dictation, BT keyboard or other means of things break. 
/Krister

> 16 feb. 2016 kl. 14:05 skrev Christopher Chaltain :
> 
> I don't understand your question. There's nothing wrong with choosing to use 
> the virtual keyboard and not wanting to carry around extra equipment. There's 
> also nothing wrong with someone wanting to use a bluetooth keyboard. We have 
> choices, and there's nothing wrong when someone chooses to take advantage of 
> their choices.
> 
> Also, using a bluetooth keyboard doesn't mean someone isn't using or isn't 
> proficient with the virtual keyboard. I primarily use the virtual keyboard, 
> but I do have a bluetooth keyboard when I'm using my iPhone as a laptop 
> replacement, such as when I'm travelling.
> 
> On 16/02/16 06:57, Devin Prater wrote:
>> Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because
>> I'm faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted
>> to typing exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being
>> typed. So I deleted that, because having to restart voiceover whenever
>> that happened, whih was often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen
>> input, however amazing, means that I'd have to turn my device to
>> landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, twist the rotor, or do the
>> "back" gesture, and find the send button or whatever. With a keyboard, I
>> can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the place where I want to
>> type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, and countless
>> other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, I'd
>> press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard
>> shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two
>> devices, but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a
>> charger, or an iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and
>> its chargers, or an iPhone and a purse.
>> 
>> Sent from Outlook Mobile >
>> From Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com  > >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom"
>> mailto:kris...@kristersplace.com> 
>> >> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi,
>>This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to 
>> test my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being 
>> wrong.
>>You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to 
>> know their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if 
>> things happen and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about 
>> for example what input method to use and so i have said that if you want an 
>> iPhone you’ll have to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you 
>> get to decide if you want to use it or not.
>>I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have 
>> a little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for 
>> my typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar 
>> appointment for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar 
>> entry afterwards but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
>>I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with 
>> me all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my 
>> opinion is wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. 
>> What in my reasoning is flawed?
>>/Krister
>> 
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>> list.
>> 
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Christopher Chaltain]

I don't understand your question. There's nothing wrong with choosing to 
use the virtual keyboard and not wanting to carry around extra 
equipment. There's also nothing wrong with someone wanting to use a 
bluetooth keyboard. We have choices, and there's nothing wrong when 
someone chooses to take advantage of their choices.


Also, using a bluetooth keyboard doesn't mean someone isn't using or 
isn't proficient with the virtual keyboard. I primarily use the virtual 
keyboard, but I do have a bluetooth keyboard when I'm using my iPhone as 
a laptop replacement, such as when I'm travelling.


On 16/02/16 06:57, Devin Prater wrote:

Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because
I'm faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted
to typing exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being
typed. So I deleted that, because having to restart voiceover whenever
that happened, whih was often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen
input, however amazing, means that I'd have to turn my device to
landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, twist the rotor, or do the
"back" gesture, and find the send button or whatever. With a keyboard, I
can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the place where I want to
type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, and countless
other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, I'd
press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard
shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two
devices, but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a
charger, or an iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and
its chargers, or an iPhone and a purse.

Sent from Outlook Mobile 
 From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com 




On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom"
mailto:kris...@kristersplace.com>> wrote:

Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test 
my opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar appointment 
for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards 
but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me 
all the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion is 
wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister

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Re: Why do we want to use a physical keyboard?

[Devin Prater]

Your reasoning isn't flawed at all. I use a Bluetooth keyboard because I'm 
faster at it than using the iOS keyboard, and Fleksy often reverted to typing 
exactly where I touched, which means it was garbage being typed. So I deleted 
that, because having to restart voiceover whenever that happened, whih was 
often for me, was a real pain. Braille screen input, however amazing, means 
that I'd have to turn my device to landscape mode, type, correct any mistakes, 
twist the rotor, or do the "back" gesture, and find the send button or 
whatever. With a keyboard, I can just navigate, using the keyboard, to the 
place where I want to type, type, and if in messenger, messages, Kik, Whatsapp, 
and countless other apps, just press enter to send. If I'm in outlook Mobile, 
I'd press command+enter to automatically send a message. Other keyboard 
shortcuts like that work too, in other apps. Yes, I have to take two devices, 
but no, it's not that much worse than taking an iPhone and a charger, or an 
iPhone and a braille display, or a braille display and its chargers, or an 
iPhone and a purse.

Sent from Outlook Mobile
>From Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com




On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:57 AM -0800, "Krister Ekstrom" 
 wrote:










Hi,
This is *not* critizism even though it might seem so. I merely want to test my 
opinion in a matter where i more or less have been accused of being wrong.
You see, i want those i tell and sometimes teach about the iDevices to know 
their device thoroughly so that they don’t get stuck somewhere if things happen 
and so that they themselves can make an informed choice about for example what 
input method to use and so i have said that if you want an iPhone you’ll have 
to learn and know about the virtual keyboard before you get to decide if you 
want to use it or not.
I for example am not using a physical bluetooth keyboard although i have a 
little cute one sitting around here. Now i’m exclusively using Fleksy for my 
typing needs, and sometimes when i’m in a hurry to make a calendar appointment 
for example i use Siri and then go in and edit the calendar entry afterwards 
but before i used Fleksy i used the stock iOs keyboard.
I have chosen to do this because i don’t want to carry many gadgets with me all 
the time, but those are my choices, so please tell me what in my opinion is 
wrong because i am apparently so dence i can’t understand it. What in my 
reasoning is flawed?
/Krister

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