[volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
I'm porting over my HP3458A NVRAM data dumper program to use John Miles GPIBKIT routines. It should make it usable with most GPIB interfaces out there and be able to run under more modern versions of Windoze. My first crack at it is working, but it is quite a bit slower than my original program. Not sure if anything can be done about that... BTW, my program does verify the checksum bytes in the CAL ram so there is a check that the dump went OK. Without Poul-Henning's work none of this would be possible. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
Thanks On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:08 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > John, > > I don't think I would worry too much about messing up the 'CALRAM'. If you > 'mess up' the 'CALRAM', and your meter is, otherwise, OK, you will spend > about $500 with Keysight for a 'Keysight' calibration, which I would > recommend. > > If they get your meter and it is not 'suitable' for calibration (meaning > that, in some way, it's 'broken'), you will be notified and offered the > option of having them 'repair' the meter (for about $2700, which includes > the 'Keysight' calibration) or returning the meter to you for your repair > at > a cost of half the calibration charge, IIRC. > > The key point about reading these NVRAM's is to, first and foremost, let > the > chips cool after removal before trying to read them. I learned about that > the hard way. > > Second, make sure your programmer specifically supports the chip you are > trying to read and program. If so, reading then archiving the data should > be straight forward and programming a new chip should be equally straight > forward. > > I am not familiar with the 'Mem test 1 high' issue but I suspect the > Assembly Level Repair Manual or the Component Level Repair Manual should > address the issue. I agree with others that this likely means that, in > some > way, your meter is 'broken'. If you can chase that down to a simple > problem > and repair it, getting the calibration with Keysight would be the next > order > of business. Once it passes calibration, you would be able to purchase the > 'Repair Agreement' for a couple hundred dollars per year, with a discount > for multiple year purchases up to a maximum of 5, IIRC, which gives you a > meter with a 'factory warranty' for that time period. > > Personally, I would look for a 'professional' programmer rather than one of > the 'cheaper' ones, especially if you are anticipating getting into vintage > equipment and programming EPROM's, etc. BP Micro, Advin, DATA I/O, Elnec, > etc., would ones I would look for. I'm sure others on the list would have > their own recommendations. The prices on theBay right now are particularly > ridiculous but good deals can be had. The majority of these units use > parallel port connections and need WinXP as the OS. The later versions, > starting around $500 will connect via USB and be able to utilize Win7 or > Win8. > > Good luck. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of John Phillips > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:41 PM > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > memory chips? > > I do have a ni gpib-usb-hs > http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201586 > I was hoping to remove the chip, read the data with a usb programer and > wright the data back into a new chip before installing it. > Then do a full calibration. > If the 16k chip has the cal vars what do the other 32k chips have? > Thanks for the input. > I should be able to read to read the data from a good meter with the MREAD > and wright it with a programer. > > I have been using excl to read program 3458As I will see if I can get > MREAD > to work there. > > > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Mark Sims wrote: > > > You REALLY don't want to mess with that 24 pin NVRAM chip... it > > contains the calibration memory. If you bugger the data in it, you > > get to spend a couple of grand getting the meter back into working > > order. I know a couple of people that did just that. > > > > The solution is to first make a backup copy of the memory contents > > using the (undocumented) MREAD command over the GPIB bus. > > Poul-Henning Kamp figured out how to do it... buy the man a beer... even > better a case of > > beer... Search the archives for details. > > > > I just backed up all the memory in my 3 HP3458A's for when the inevitable > > BIG BAD DAY comes and the backup batteries go bye-bye. If you happen to > > have a NI GPIB-232CV-A (or possibly a Prologix) RS-232 to GPIB > > converter and can run a DOS or WIN98 program, I have a program that > > dumps the memory chips. It has code for the Prologix in it, but I've > > only used it with my a Prologix compatible unit I built... I don't > > have a real Prologix to test it with. > > > > > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > -- > > *John Phillips* > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.c
[volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
Why risk having to re-cal the meter? There are several GPIB-232CV's on Ebay right now... Two of them are under $60 Buy-It-Now... cheap enough to be worth trying. The Prologix USB converter is around $100... $150 new from the factory. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
The problem with removing the chip and copying it is the very real chance of glitching the contents in the process. Much better to make a backup copy first. The 32Kx8 NVRAMS are used for system memory and things like storage of user programs and data. Note that the two 32Kx8 devices are form a 16-bit word. The 2kx8 cal ram is only on the high byte of the data bus. MREAD returns memory contents as a signed integer value (-32768..32767) in ASCII. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
John, I don't think I would worry too much about messing up the 'CALRAM'. If you 'mess up' the 'CALRAM', and your meter is, otherwise, OK, you will spend about $500 with Keysight for a 'Keysight' calibration, which I would recommend. If they get your meter and it is not 'suitable' for calibration (meaning that, in some way, it's 'broken'), you will be notified and offered the option of having them 'repair' the meter (for about $2700, which includes the 'Keysight' calibration) or returning the meter to you for your repair at a cost of half the calibration charge, IIRC. The key point about reading these NVRAM's is to, first and foremost, let the chips cool after removal before trying to read them. I learned about that the hard way. Second, make sure your programmer specifically supports the chip you are trying to read and program. If so, reading then archiving the data should be straight forward and programming a new chip should be equally straight forward. I am not familiar with the 'Mem test 1 high' issue but I suspect the Assembly Level Repair Manual or the Component Level Repair Manual should address the issue. I agree with others that this likely means that, in some way, your meter is 'broken'. If you can chase that down to a simple problem and repair it, getting the calibration with Keysight would be the next order of business. Once it passes calibration, you would be able to purchase the 'Repair Agreement' for a couple hundred dollars per year, with a discount for multiple year purchases up to a maximum of 5, IIRC, which gives you a meter with a 'factory warranty' for that time period. Personally, I would look for a 'professional' programmer rather than one of the 'cheaper' ones, especially if you are anticipating getting into vintage equipment and programming EPROM's, etc. BP Micro, Advin, DATA I/O, Elnec, etc., would ones I would look for. I'm sure others on the list would have their own recommendations. The prices on theBay right now are particularly ridiculous but good deals can be had. The majority of these units use parallel port connections and need WinXP as the OS. The later versions, starting around $500 will connect via USB and be able to utilize Win7 or Win8. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Phillips Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:41 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips? I do have a ni gpib-usb-hs http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201586 I was hoping to remove the chip, read the data with a usb programer and wright the data back into a new chip before installing it. Then do a full calibration. If the 16k chip has the cal vars what do the other 32k chips have? Thanks for the input. I should be able to read to read the data from a good meter with the MREAD and wright it with a programer. I have been using excl to read program 3458As I will see if I can get MREAD to work there. On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Mark Sims wrote: > You REALLY don't want to mess with that 24 pin NVRAM chip... it > contains the calibration memory. If you bugger the data in it, you > get to spend a couple of grand getting the meter back into working > order. I know a couple of people that did just that. > > The solution is to first make a backup copy of the memory contents > using the (undocumented) MREAD command over the GPIB bus. > Poul-Henning Kamp figured out how to do it... buy the man a beer... even better a case of > beer... Search the archives for details. > > I just backed up all the memory in my 3 HP3458A's for when the inevitable > BIG BAD DAY comes and the backup batteries go bye-bye. If you happen to > have a NI GPIB-232CV-A (or possibly a Prologix) RS-232 to GPIB > converter and can run a DOS or WIN98 program, I have a program that > dumps the memory chips. It has code for the Prologix in it, but I've > only used it with my a Prologix compatible unit I built... I don't > have a real Prologix to test it with. > > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
I do have a ni gpib-usb-hs http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201586 I was hoping to remove the chip, read the data with a usb programer and wright the data back into a new chip before installing it. Then do a full calibration. If the 16k chip has the cal vars what do the other 32k chips have? Thanks for the input. I should be able to read to read the data from a good meter with the MREAD and wright it with a programer. I have been using excl to read program 3458As I will see if I can get MREAD to work there. On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Mark Sims wrote: > You REALLY don't want to mess with that 24 pin NVRAM chip... it contains > the calibration memory. If you bugger the data in it, you get to spend a > couple of grand getting the meter back into working order. I know a couple > of people that did just that. > > The solution is to first make a backup copy of the memory contents using > the (undocumented) MREAD command over the GPIB bus. Poul-Henning Kamp > figured out how to do it... buy the man a beer... even better a case of > beer... Search the archives for details. > > I just backed up all the memory in my 3 HP3458A's for when the inevitable > BIG BAD DAY comes and the backup batteries go bye-bye. If you happen to > have a NI GPIB-232CV-A (or possibly a Prologix) RS-232 to GPIB converter > and can run a DOS or WIN98 program, I have a program that dumps the memory > chips. It has code for the Prologix in it, but I've only used it with my > a Prologix compatible unit I built... I don't have a real Prologix to test > it with. > > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
You REALLY don't want to mess with that 24 pin NVRAM chip... it contains the calibration memory. If you bugger the data in it, you get to spend a couple of grand getting the meter back into working order. I know a couple of people that did just that. The solution is to first make a backup copy of the memory contents using the (undocumented) MREAD command over the GPIB bus. Poul-Henning Kamp figured out how to do it... buy the man a beer... even better a case of beer... Search the archives for details. I just backed up all the memory in my 3 HP3458A's for when the inevitable BIG BAD DAY comes and the backup batteries go bye-bye. If you happen to have a NI GPIB-232CV-A (or possibly a Prologix) RS-232 to GPIB converter and can run a DOS or WIN98 program, I have a program that dumps the memory chips. It has code for the Prologix in it, but I've only used it with my a Prologix compatible unit I built... I don't have a real Prologix to test it with. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
That is very helpful Bill! Thanks so much... You are the first person who has told me of actually getting this to work. I have been changing out the chips one at a time. I still have the 16K chip to go. It could just be that one. I am waiting for a 24 pin socket which should be here Friday to change it out. I have been looking at the programer to see if I could get a before and after memory dump mostly to see what changed and to see if I use different chips if I get different values. 5V = 5.06 with 1.5mv ac Thanks again. On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:43 PM, John Phillips wrote: > Thanks... > I have been looking at the > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-EEPROM-Flash-SPI-BIOS-24-25-BR90-93-USB-Programmer-6000-CHIPS-SP8-B-/371031966902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56633a84b6 > > Do you think that would do the chips? > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Todd Micallef > wrote: > >> John, >> >> Don't forget to measure your 5V power supply output. I doubt you are >> having >> a problem with it but the NVRAM write is disabled below a certain voltage >> (~4.25v) >> >> Todd >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 6:50 PM, wrote: >> >> > the easy way to read nvram through usb is a usb-programmer that has your >> > ram in its list of supported devices:-) >> > >> > this will not solve your problem though. if you reboot the unit after >> the >> > first error messsage, amd the problem still exists, it is probably not >> with >> > the nvram. then it could be things like bus drive, chip select logic... >> > ne way to avoid spending 3k is to bus the cpu board, this is cheaper. >> > >> > >> > >> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 22:37 Uhr >> > > Von: "John Phillips" >> > > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" >> > > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read >> 32K >> > memory chips? >> > > >> > > Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 >> > > On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: >> > > >> > > > John, >> > > > >> > > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? >> > > > >> > > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed >> > with >> > > > the appropriate chip programmer. >> > > > >> > > > Joe >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -Original Message- >> > > > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com >> ] >> > On >> > > > Behalf Of John Phillips >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM >> > > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement >> > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K >> > memory >> > > > chips? >> > > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an >> > easy >> > > > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred >> > > > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to >> read >> > and >> > > > write to the chips to validate the data. >> > > > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. >> > > > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix >> > this. >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > *John Phillips* >> > > > ___ >> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> > > > and follow the instructions there. >> > > > >> > > > ___ >> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> > > > To unsubscribe, go to >> > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> > > > and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ >> > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> > > To unsubscribe, go to >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> > > and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ >> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > > *John Phillips* > -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
John, Look for the TL866A. You can get it with/without adapters. It seems to be a decent programmer. There was a review done on EEVBlog for a similar model without the ICSP port. The support list includes the 3458A NVRAM. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-411-minipro-tl866-universal-programmer-review/ I use this one ... http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282 It works fine with the 3458A NVRAM, but you can probably save some $$ going with a less expensive model. Todd On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:43 PM, John Phillips wrote: > Thanks... > I have been looking at the > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-EEPROM-Flash-SPI-BIOS-24-25-BR90-93-USB-Programmer-6000-CHIPS-SP8-B-/371031966902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56633a84b6 > > Do you think that would do the chips? > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Todd Micallef > wrote: > > > John, > > > > Don't forget to measure your 5V power supply output. I doubt you are > having > > a problem with it but the NVRAM write is disabled below a certain voltage > > (~4.25v) > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > > > > > the easy way to read nvram through usb is a usb-programmer that has > your > > > ram in its list of supported devices:-) > > > > > > this will not solve your problem though. if you reboot the unit after > the > > > first error messsage, amd the problem still exists, it is probably not > > with > > > the nvram. then it could be things like bus drive, chip select logic... > > > ne way to avoid spending 3k is to bus the cpu board, this is cheaper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 22:37 Uhr > > > > Von: "John Phillips" > > > > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > > > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read > 32K > > > memory chips? > > > > > > > > Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 > > > > On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and > programmed > > > with > > > > > the appropriate chip programmer. > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto: > volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of John Phillips > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM > > > > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > > > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > > > memory > > > > > chips? > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have > an > > > easy > > > > > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my > preferred > > > > > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to > > read > > > and > > > > > write to the chips to validate the data. > > > > > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > > > > > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > *John Phillips* > > > > > ___ > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > > *John Phillips* > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
Thanks... I have been looking at the http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-EEPROM-Flash-SPI-BIOS-24-25-BR90-93-USB-Programmer-6000-CHIPS-SP8-B-/371031966902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56633a84b6 Do you think that would do the chips? On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Todd Micallef wrote: > John, > > Don't forget to measure your 5V power supply output. I doubt you are having > a problem with it but the NVRAM write is disabled below a certain voltage > (~4.25v) > > Todd > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > > > the easy way to read nvram through usb is a usb-programmer that has your > > ram in its list of supported devices:-) > > > > this will not solve your problem though. if you reboot the unit after the > > first error messsage, amd the problem still exists, it is probably not > with > > the nvram. then it could be things like bus drive, chip select logic... > > ne way to avoid spending 3k is to bus the cpu board, this is cheaper. > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 22:37 Uhr > > > Von: "John Phillips" > > > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > > memory chips? > > > > > > Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 > > > On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? > > > > > > > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed > > with > > > > the appropriate chip programmer. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] > > On > > > > Behalf Of John Phillips > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM > > > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > > memory > > > > chips? > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an > > easy > > > > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred > > > > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to > read > > and > > > > write to the chips to validate the data. > > > > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > > > > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix > > this. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *John Phillips* > > > > ___ > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memorychips?
John: I have replaced the 3 NVRAM devices in two different 3458A meters. I didn't do anything to the devices other than to install sockets to make future replacements easier when that issue comes up again. I did not program them or anything, just put the "blank" NVRAMS in and turned on the meters. I did get a lot of error messages at turn on because there were no "calibration constants" in the devices. But after clearing those messages the meter worked normally, but was way off on all readings which was expected. I was worried that the other "limit" constants that were in the old NVRAM would be reprogrammed into the new NVRAMS but it was all there just all of the "calibration constants" were "0" for the most part. Since I have a complete set of necessary calibration equipment that is required to completely recalibrate the 3458A I went through all of the calibration commands with the proper standards hooked up to the meter, CAL 0, CAL 10.000, CAL 10.000E3 and SCAL and whatever else was required. When I got done both meters would power on with no problems or complaints about "calibration needed" or whatever. My point here is that putting new blank NVRAMS into the meter does not cause a "Mem test 1 high" error. Of course you must calibrate the entire meter or send it to HP/Agilent/Keysight or a local lab if you don't have the necessary equipment to do the cal. So my guess is that you have a problem on your A5 Outguard Controller board with addressing memory that is NOT being caused by replacing the NVRAMS. Or you have a problem with one of the RAMs on that board or something. Unfortunately HP/Agilent/Keysight did not ever publish a full set of error messages and what they may mean and what to do about them. Good luck. Bill - Original Message - From: "John Phillips" To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:53 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memorychips? > Hi, > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an easy > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read and > write to the chips to validate the data. > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix this. > > -- > > *John Phillips* > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
John, Don't forget to measure your 5V power supply output. I doubt you are having a problem with it but the NVRAM write is disabled below a certain voltage (~4.25v) Todd On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > the easy way to read nvram through usb is a usb-programmer that has your > ram in its list of supported devices:-) > > this will not solve your problem though. if you reboot the unit after the > first error messsage, amd the problem still exists, it is probably not with > the nvram. then it could be things like bus drive, chip select logic... > ne way to avoid spending 3k is to bus the cpu board, this is cheaper. > > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 22:37 Uhr > > Von: "John Phillips" > > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > memory chips? > > > > Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 > > On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? > > > > > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed > with > > > the appropriate chip programmer. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] > On > > > Behalf Of John Phillips > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM > > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > memory > > > chips? > > > > > > Hi, > > > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an > easy > > > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred > > > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read > and > > > write to the chips to validate the data. > > > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > > > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix > this. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *John Phillips* > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
the easy way to read nvram through usb is a usb-programmer that has your ram in its list of supported devices:-) this will not solve your problem though. if you reboot the unit after the first error messsage, amd the problem still exists, it is probably not with the nvram. then it could be things like bus drive, chip select logic... ne way to avoid spending 3k is to bus the cpu board, this is cheaper. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 22:37 Uhr > Von: "John Phillips" > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K > memory chips? > > Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 > On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: > > > John, > > > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? > > > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed with > > the appropriate chip programmer. > > > > Joe > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > > Behalf Of John Phillips > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory > > chips? > > > > Hi, > > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an easy > > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred > > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read and > > write to the chips to validate the data. > > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix this. > > > > -- > > > > *John Phillips* > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
Yes they are DEI220Y-150 and DSI230Y-150 On Aug 20, 2014 4:09 PM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: > John, > > Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? > > Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed with > the appropriate chip programmer. > > Joe > > > -Original Message- > From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of John Phillips > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory > chips? > > Hi, > I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an easy > way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred > connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read and > write to the chips to validate the data. > I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. > I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix this. > > -- > > *John Phillips* > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
John, Which chips are these? Dallas NVRAM's? Do you have a part number? They can probably be read and programmed with the appropriate chip programmer. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Phillips Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:54 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips? Hi, I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an easy way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read and write to the chips to validate the data. I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix this. -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] HP 3458A Mem test 1 hight. How do you read 32K memory chips?
Hi, I have removed my 32k memory chips form my 3458A. Doe anyone have an easy way to connect them to a windows computer. USB would be my preferred connection to a 28 and 24 pin socket. I would like to be able to read and write to the chips to validate the data. I have replace the chips and still get Mem test 1 High on start up. I really do not want to spend close to $3000 for KeySight to fix this. -- *John Phillips* ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] What's All This Low Thermal EMF Test Lead Stuff?
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Stan Katz wrote: > If you reserve those pure copper bananas strictly for infrequent cal. of > something like an HP3458, or other transfer standards in your lab, they > may be good for some years. > > I envision the "beer nuts" to be a rather relaxed group of individuals, > who are perfectly satisfied to know the alcohol content of their favorite > brew to no better than +/- 60ppm ;-) > > Why +/- 60ppm? A selfish reason. I plan on bringing home a beer-nut-NIST > volt for my Fluke 731B using one of these standards > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-VOLT-DC-Precision-Voltage-Reference-Standard-Nulled-to-Fluke-732A-732B-/261499015291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce28e507b > > They're only good to 6ppm according to the seller. Rule of thumb is primary > must be ten times the accuracy of secondary, that leaves me with an > uncertainty of +/-60ppmdoes seem a bit muchoh well, if necessary, > I'm willing to be the only beer-nuts member. > > > > This could devolve into a beer-nuts-nuts group too. One must have one's beer-nuts whilst sipping beer whilst perusing the beer-nuts group. Mark ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] What's All This Low Thermal EMF Test Lead Stuff?
if you buy a voltage source that is cal'ed to 6ppm you do not end uop with a factor of 10 (60ppm). the fatcor of 10 is often used to be on the safe side, but in high percision cals 10 is not achievable anyways. some mil standards call for 4, but what you should do is to analyze the error propagation and then determine the likely final uncertainty (you would do this with a certain confidence level, say 95% which is usual). so you would look at the different contributors (temo variation, aging since call'ed, error due to emf voltage and so on). you would add these up by the rss (root sum square) method. there is a lot of literature out there for this, also free on the net, and it would not be possible to describe the details here, but I would suggest to do this, as the real error will be much better I am sure. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2014 um 03:03 Uhr > Von: "Stan Katz" > An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] What's All This Low Thermal EMF Test Lead Stuff? > > If you reserve those pure copper bananas strictly for infrequent cal. of > something like an HP3458, or other transfer standards in your lab, they > may be good for some years. > > I envision the "beer nuts" to be a rather relaxed group of individuals, > who are perfectly satisfied to know the alcohol content of their favorite > brew to no better than +/- 60ppm ;-) > > Why +/- 60ppm? A selfish reason. I plan on bringing home a beer-nut-NIST > volt for my Fluke 731B using one of these standards > http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-VOLT-DC-Precision-Voltage-Reference-Standard-Nulled-to-Fluke-732A-732B-/261499015291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce28e507b > > They're only good to 6ppm according to the seller. Rule of thumb is primary > must be ten times the accuracy of secondary, that leaves me with an > uncertainty of +/-60ppmdoes seem a bit muchoh well, if necessary, > I'm willing to be the only beer-nuts member. > > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Todd Micallef wrote: > > > Stan, > > > > I recently picked up some of these ... > > > > http://www.douglasconnection.com/Furez-TSTWP30NP-Bare-Copper-Banana-Plug-Connectors-Pair-FZTSTWP30NP.htm > > > > They are a little pricey and are made for 12ga wire. I think they are OK > > for semi-permanent use. A lot of use will probably scratch the soft metal. > > I plan on trying them with my Keithley 181 plugged into a low thermal > > scanner. > > The original Keithley cable will be difficult to terminate. I may have to > > go with crimped spade lugs. > > > > Also, I am all for joining a beer nuts group. > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Stan Katz wrote: > > > > > I'm a self described volt-nut-near-beer. I don't own a 732A/B, or an > > > HP3458. I do own HP3456 DMMs that are at the top of my instrumentation > > > pecking order. I have all the necessary gear to calibrate these DMMs > > > according to ancient HP documentation. At the top of my cal. chain is the > > > 731B, called out in HP3456 original documentation. This hierarchy places > > > me in the near-beer, or junior member status of the group. I look forward > > > to being educated, and/or corrected on my understanding of the use of > > test > > > leads with precision instrumentation. > > > > > > I don't find much ancient HP documentation on test leads. The only > > > recommendations in the era of the 3456 back to the 1960's is to use as > > > thick a solid lead of pure copper wire as you can find, and insert the > > wire > > > into the drill hole on the banana terminal. If the copper is pure, and > > has > > > been properly cleaned, the thermal emf's on both identical length leads > > > should all be balanced, and cancel out. In any case, pure copper-copper > > > connections generate the lowest thermal emf. I will agree that > > manhandling > > > 16 gauge solid wire can be very inconvenient. > > > > > > The path I have taken recently is to order Nakamichi gold over copper > > > stereo banana plugs for my connections ( I deal in low voltage work > > > exclusively), as well as gold plated spade lugs to go under the banana > > > screw-downs. ( My budget ruled out gold over beryllium copper Pomona > > brand > > > spades. ) I will then experiment between the two connector types. As for > > > connections, it seems to me the best course is just to screw down the > > > banana plugs, or in the case of the spades, just crimp. I'll wing it on > > the > > > crimping, and see if simple tools can perform adequately. I would avoid > > > solder, since how can one form identical topological spots of solder on > > > every connection, deposited at the exact same place on each connection, > > and > > > ensure the exact same weight of solder, to the microgram, on each > > > connection. Since my modus operandi is to aim for balanced emfs, I think > > > solder is out. Of course, if one wishes to risk one's health, and that of > > > the family, one can track down a source
