Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Joe, Bill and Charlie Thank you all for your advice, and for the short term I will leave the 732A as is. Like you Joe, my 732A arrived with a set of 'dead' SLA batteries - these were replaced, and its been powered 24/7 since last October, again it came with no history. I bought mine from a dealer on the West Coast who had a batch of 14, so I guess that they came from a lab. Its stability is impressive, and the Thermistor reading is currently 4.5194 K ohms, with only small variations over time. My 3458A had a new processor/RAM/ROM board fitted by Agilent - so it has the latest 'plug-in/power-up' devices which I understand are a great improvement, and was calibrated just about six weeks ago. I take your point that the 3458A should be power continuously, but of course the display is of the fluorescent type which deteriorate over time. This is now less important, as I have had a new display installed, and the improvement is great. I certainly agree that the 3458A is very sensitive to temperature changes and as you advise, I frequently run 'Auto Cal' . I consider the cost of its refurbishment/calibration to be well worth while, considering the cost of a new instrument. Best regards. Roy -Original Message- From: J. L. Trantham Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 1:48 AM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Roy, The tool needed to adjust the 732A is both a tool with a recessed metal blade and a tool with an exposed metal blade. The 10 V adjustment is certainly the one with the recessed metal blade. The other two use one of each. I just can't remember which is which. However, if you look at the service manual (downloadable from Fluke or other sites) you can tell which is which. All are a 'good ways' in the unit. If you get 'eye to eye' with the adjustment holes, with a flash light, you can tell what the position of the 'blade' should be to make the adjustments. Once properly 'in place', leave the adjustment tool in position and wait a day or so to make sure all remains stable. Don't forget to 'AutoCal All' the 3458A at least every 24 hours (leaving the 732A and the 3458A on 24/7) while doing this. My experience with these standards is from a 732A and a 735C. They share a lot in common. The 735C is 10.0 V only. Both my units arrived with dead battery packs (NiCd for the 735C and SLA for the 732A) and no history of performance. When I 'resurrected' them they were both way off scale. Since I had no history of their prior performance, I decided I would allow them to 'settle' then adjust them to be 10.000 VDC as best I could do with my Agilent Calibrated 3458A. Both required making adjustments to their internal 'connections' in order for them to be 'on scale' with the external adjustments. Once adjustments were made, I have covered the access holes for the adjustments and the 'reset' hole with tape to minimize ambient air currents. Both are now very stable. With the 735C, for instance, when I 'AutoCal' the 3458A and read the voltage, it is +/- 1 uV from 10.00 VDC repeatedly. Tonight, for instance, it reads 10.001 then settles on 9.998. Both the 735C and the 3458A are on 24/7/365. I take that as evidence that they have 'stabilized'. My plan is to send my Opt 002 3458A to Agilent for their 90 day specification Cal then use it to do a 'final adjustment' to both the 732A and 735C. Once I'm confident that both have 'stabilized' (which I hope will happen within the 90 day Cal period), then I hope to send both to Fluke for their 'calibration'. Once done, my plan is to never adjust them again but, rather, keep track of their readings with a 3458A. I agree with others that it is best to track the values rather than to try to 'adjust' the references. However, if you have no 'history', you get to start from scratch, or at least that's my opinion. The 3458A should be about 4 PPM. Hopefully, the Opt 002 with a '90 day Cal', it will be more like 2 PPM or better. We'll see what Fluke does with the 735C and 732A, once they have a chance to take a look. Once 'calibrated', I agree it is more important to make sure they are 'in range' and stable rather than trying to 'adjust' them each time they might go in for 'cal'. Hope this helps. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles Black Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:18 AM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Hi Roy, I would like to second Todd's advice about leaving the Fluke 732A's output voltage adjustment alone. You already have stable outputs and 24 microvolts high is very acceptable. My Datron 4910 (four output supply) has predictable digital output level settings that doesn't have any luck involved so it is a better candidate for resetting the standards than the Fluke 732A. I
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? - 3458A
Roy, The 3458A is quite the instrument. I'm not familiar with the latest 'plug-in/power-up' devices of which you speak. I suspect you have Rev 9.2. Mine have the single chip EPROM, through-hole, A5 board. I suspect yours has the SMT version. If you have just had Agilent calibrate the meter, it is now eligible for the Repair Agreement for $178.68 per year. You can buy up to 5 year's worth and get a slight discount, 4% or so, IIRC. Might be worth considering. Gary Bierman at Agilent Loveland told me about that. When I called Agilent to purchase that, they were a bit skeptical. However, when I told them that Gary Bierman told me it was possible, they got on the phone to talk to someone and then readily sold me the agreement. Not a bad price to cover a potentially expensive repair, especially if you plan to leave it on 24/7/365 and you don't know it's history. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of R.Phillips Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 4:00 AM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Joe, Bill and Charlie Thank you all for your advice, and for the short term I will leave the 732A as is. Like you Joe, my 732A arrived with a set of 'dead' SLA batteries - these were replaced, and its been powered 24/7 since last October, again it came with no history. I bought mine from a dealer on the West Coast who had a batch of 14, so I guess that they came from a lab. Its stability is impressive, and the Thermistor reading is currently 4.5194 K ohms, with only small variations over time. My 3458A had a new processor/RAM/ROM board fitted by Agilent - so it has the latest 'plug-in/power-up' devices which I understand are a great improvement, and was calibrated just about six weeks ago. I take your point that the 3458A should be power continuously, but of course the display is of the fluorescent type which deteriorate over time. This is now less important, as I have had a new display installed, and the improvement is great. I certainly agree that the 3458A is very sensitive to temperature changes and as you advise, I frequently run 'Auto Cal' . I consider the cost of its refurbishment/calibration to be well worth while, considering the cost of a new instrument. Best regards. Roy ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Roy, The tool needed to adjust the 732A is both a tool with a recessed metal blade and a tool with an exposed metal blade. The 10 V adjustment is certainly the one with the recessed metal blade. The other two use one of each. I just can't remember which is which. However, if you look at the service manual (downloadable from Fluke or other sites) you can tell which is which. All are a 'good ways' in the unit. If you get 'eye to eye' with the adjustment holes, with a flash light, you can tell what the position of the 'blade' should be to make the adjustments. Once properly 'in place', leave the adjustment tool in position and wait a day or so to make sure all remains stable. Don't forget to 'AutoCal All' the 3458A at least every 24 hours (leaving the 732A and the 3458A on 24/7) while doing this. My experience with these standards is from a 732A and a 735C. They share a lot in common. The 735C is 10.0 V only. Both my units arrived with dead battery packs (NiCd for the 735C and SLA for the 732A) and no history of performance. When I 'resurrected' them they were both way off scale. Since I had no history of their prior performance, I decided I would allow them to 'settle' then adjust them to be 10.000 VDC as best I could do with my Agilent Calibrated 3458A. Both required making adjustments to their internal 'connections' in order for them to be 'on scale' with the external adjustments. Once adjustments were made, I have covered the access holes for the adjustments and the 'reset' hole with tape to minimize ambient air currents. Both are now very stable. With the 735C, for instance, when I 'AutoCal' the 3458A and read the voltage, it is +/- 1 uV from 10.00 VDC repeatedly. Tonight, for instance, it reads 10.001 then settles on 9.998. Both the 735C and the 3458A are on 24/7/365. I take that as evidence that they have 'stabilized'. My plan is to send my Opt 002 3458A to Agilent for their 90 day specification Cal then use it to do a 'final adjustment' to both the 732A and 735C. Once I'm confident that both have 'stabilized' (which I hope will happen within the 90 day Cal period), then I hope to send both to Fluke for their 'calibration'. Once done, my plan is to never adjust them again but, rather, keep track of their readings with a 3458A. I agree with others that it is best to track the values rather than to try to 'adjust' the references. However, if you have no 'history', you get to start from scratch, or at least that's my opinion. The 3458A should be about 4 PPM. Hopefully, the Opt 002 with a '90 day Cal', it will be more like 2 PPM or better. We'll see what Fluke does with the 735C and 732A, once they have a chance to take a look. Once 'calibrated', I agree it is more important to make sure they are 'in range' and stable rather than trying to 'adjust' them each time they might go in for 'cal'. Hope this helps. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles Black Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:18 AM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Hi Roy, I would like to second Todd's advice about leaving the Fluke 732A's output voltage adjustment alone. You already have stable outputs and 24 microvolts high is very acceptable. My Datron 4910 (four output supply) has predictable digital output level settings that doesn't have any luck involved so it is a better candidate for resetting the standards than the Fluke 732A. I had Fluke reset them last calibration because I had just repaired the Datron 4910 and my voltages were all over the place but stable. Also I would expect your Fluke 732A to about as temperature stable as my Datron 4910. In my experience my 3458A needs to be at 23C to calibrate. Also it should have the fan filter freshly cleaned and record the 3458A's internal temperature. I have recorded (over several days) each Datron 4910 output with my 3458A and a switch and can say that the Datrons are temperature stable but not my 3458A. Charlie On 6/12/2014 7:54 AM, Bill Gold wrote: Roy: I use a ( General Cement ) GC 8276 adjustment tool to make the pot adjustments in the 732A. I use the end that has the recessed metal blade. The pots are about 3.5 inches back from the front panel. It sometimes is very difficult to engage the tool slot in the pot. It helps to look through the front panel hole with a small flashlight and observe the position of the slot in the pot ( i.e. 9, 10, 11 o'clock for example ). Then when you insert the adjustment tool you can get close to the point when you can engage the adjustment pot. Sometimes it will seem impossible to engage the tool into the slot, but with patience it can be done. Once you do engage the pot do whatever adjustment you want, don't pull the tool out, just leave the tool engaged with the pot so that if you want to make
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Hi Joe Sorry if I am retracing steps, but I have recently had my 3458A restored/recal'd by Agilent - its good to have it back. I also have a Fluke 732A which I can now check. Currently it is 10.24 volts, I now feel confident to trim it to the 3458A. I have tried to see the trimmers in each of the three holes - they appear to be some way within, and I am wondering if you could confirm the type of pot. that is used and just how long a trimming device is required. Is this a special tool only available from Fluke ? Regards Roy Phillips. -Original Message- From: J. L. Trantham Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:09 PM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Charles, What size batteries did you use for your external pack and where are you located? In other words, how long can your external battery pack 'survive' keeping the 732A 'hot'? Is the external pack recharged at Fluke or does it have to make a round trip on the initial charge? Once I am convinced my unit is stable (which will probably be another six months or so, after I get my 3458A's re-calibrated by Agilent), I hope to be able to send it to Fluke for calibration. Fluke made a transit case (732A-7002) and a Battery Charger and Auxiliary Battery Case (732A-7003). However, I have never seen a picture of either of these. Does anyone have any information on these? How did you make your case? Did you include a charger? Combination of battery pack and shipping container or separate battery pack and shipping container? I was thinking of building a case with built-in charger, fuse, and AC connector and cord such that when the unit arrived at the CAL facility all that would be needed would be to plug it in and allow the external battery pack to recharge while the unit being calibrated was plugged in, recharge the internal batteries, and calibrated. Or does the 732A also charge the external battery pack along with the internal batteries? The connector you need (complete with female contacts) is a Hypertronics P/N D01PB306FSTAH and is in stock at Kensington Electronics at $8.96 each (plus tax and shipping). Only problem is their $50 minimum order. The 'shell' only is P/N D01PB306NT and the female contact is P/N YSK006-010ANH (three needed). http://ecommerce.keiconn.com/hypertronics/D01PB306FSTAH I ordered two of the connectors from Fluke using a P/N that one of the Fluke folks in their eCal facility gave me, noting that someone else had asked the same question a couple of weeks earlier, with Fluke Item# 2181497, described as '100-166, PLUG - MALE, HYPERTRONICS'. They were $12.31 each (plus tax and shipping) and arrived as the shell only, no contacts. If Fluke solves their supply chain problem, I sure would like to get the six female contacts I need to make my connectors 'complete'. When I got on the phone with Fluke, I could never find anyone that had any knowledge about this. Is there anyone there I should ask for that might understand my question? I look forward to your posting the update from Fluke. Thanks. Joe ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Todd Thank you - I'm sure you are right - leave alone - as my 24 micro V is very stable, and always come up following an auto-cal. on the 3458A The 1.0800 v reads 1.018006 , and the 1. v reads 1.10. I gather the latter two outputs are derived from the 10 volt source, so would be affected by any adjustment. Roy -Original Message- From: Todd Micallef Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 3:20 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Roy, The 732A uses the 3059Y-1-101 type cermet pot for the 10V adjustment. You can use a simple plastic tweaking tool for adjustment. I believe you will need a fairly long tool. You can shine a light into one of the other holes to see the orientation of the pot. However, many people may prefer to leave the pot as is and just record the readings. It is going to drift anyway and won't stay adjusted for long. The drift may worsen once the pot position has changed too. I have adjusted mine, but only after the broken pots were replaced. Todd On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 9:57 AM, R.Phillips phill...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Joe Sorry if I am retracing steps, but I have recently had my 3458A restored/recal'd by Agilent - its good to have it back. I also have a Fluke 732A which I can now check. Currently it is 10.24 volts, I now feel confident to trim it to the 3458A. I have tried to see the trimmers in each of the three holes - they appear to be some way within, and I am wondering if you could confirm the type of pot. that is used and just how long a trimming device is required. Is this a special tool only available from Fluke ? Regards Roy Phillips. -Original Message- From: J. L. Trantham Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:09 PM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Charles, What size batteries did you use for your external pack and where are you located? In other words, how long can your external battery pack 'survive' keeping the 732A 'hot'? Is the external pack recharged at Fluke or does it have to make a round trip on the initial charge? Once I am convinced my unit is stable (which will probably be another six months or so, after I get my 3458A's re-calibrated by Agilent), I hope to be able to send it to Fluke for calibration. Fluke made a transit case (732A-7002) and a Battery Charger and Auxiliary Battery Case (732A-7003). However, I have never seen a picture of either of these. Does anyone have any information on these? How did you make your case? Did you include a charger? Combination of battery pack and shipping container or separate battery pack and shipping container? I was thinking of building a case with built-in charger, fuse, and AC connector and cord such that when the unit arrived at the CAL facility all that would be needed would be to plug it in and allow the external battery pack to recharge while the unit being calibrated was plugged in, recharge the internal batteries, and calibrated. Or does the 732A also charge the external battery pack along with the internal batteries? The connector you need (complete with female contacts) is a Hypertronics P/N D01PB306FSTAH and is in stock at Kensington Electronics at $8.96 each (plus tax and shipping). Only problem is their $50 minimum order. The 'shell' only is P/N D01PB306NT and the female contact is P/N YSK006-010ANH (three needed). http://ecommerce.keiconn.com/hypertronics/D01PB306FSTAH I ordered two of the connectors from Fluke using a P/N that one of the Fluke folks in their eCal facility gave me, noting that someone else had asked the same question a couple of weeks earlier, with Fluke Item# 2181497, described as '100-166, PLUG - MALE, HYPERTRONICS'. They were $12.31 each (plus tax and shipping) and arrived as the shell only, no contacts. If Fluke solves their supply chain problem, I sure would like to get the six female contacts I need to make my connectors 'complete'. When I got on the phone with Fluke, I could never find anyone that had any knowledge about this. Is there anyone there I should ask for that might understand my question? I look forward to your posting the update from Fluke. Thanks. Joe ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Roy: I use a ( General Cement ) GC 8276 adjustment tool to make the pot adjustments in the 732A. I use the end that has the recessed metal blade. The pots are about 3.5 inches back from the front panel. It sometimes is very difficult to engage the tool slot in the pot. It helps to look through the front panel hole with a small flashlight and observe the position of the slot in the pot ( i.e. 9, 10, 11 o'clock for example ). Then when you insert the adjustment tool you can get close to the point when you can engage the adjustment pot. Sometimes it will seem impossible to engage the tool into the slot, but with patience it can be done. Once you do engage the pot do whatever adjustment you want, don't pull the tool out, just leave the tool engaged with the pot so that if you want to make another small change you won't have to go through the same problem of trying again and again to engage. I have found that turning the pots may cause a drift which will show up days later due to the pot being dirty or whatever. So what I usually do is to turn the pot back and forth over several revolutions so that I can clean the contact wiper. I usually make an initial adjustment and then turn the pot about 1/32 of a turn in the opposite direction just to relieve any stress that might be there and cause a small change in the output voltage. I usually have very good results with these methods. But I will agree with Joe that sometimes it is better just to leave things alone and just use the known offset from 10 volts when checking or doing cals. Bill - Original Message - From: Todd Micallef tmical...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Roy, The 732A uses the 3059Y-1-101 type cermet pot for the 10V adjustment. You can use a simple plastic tweaking tool for adjustment. I believe you will need a fairly long tool. You can shine a light into one of the other holes to see the orientation of the pot. However, many people may prefer to leave the pot as is and just record the readings. It is going to drift anyway and won't stay adjusted for long. The drift may worsen once the pot position has changed too. I have adjusted mine, but only after the broken pots were replaced. Todd On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 9:57 AM, R.Phillips phill...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Joe Sorry if I am retracing steps, but I have recently had my 3458A restored/recal'd by Agilent - its good to have it back. I also have a Fluke 732A which I can now check. Currently it is 10.24 volts, I now feel confident to trim it to the 3458A. I have tried to see the trimmers in each of the three holes - they appear to be some way within, and I am wondering if you could confirm the type of pot. that is used and just how long a trimming device is required. Is this a special tool only available from Fluke ? Regards Roy Phillips. -Original Message- From: J. L. Trantham Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:09 PM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Charles, What size batteries did you use for your external pack and where are you located? In other words, how long can your external battery pack 'survive' keeping the 732A 'hot'? Is the external pack recharged at Fluke or does it have to make a round trip on the initial charge? Once I am convinced my unit is stable (which will probably be another six months or so, after I get my 3458A's re-calibrated by Agilent), I hope to be able to send it to Fluke for calibration. Fluke made a transit case (732A-7002) and a Battery Charger and Auxiliary Battery Case (732A-7003). However, I have never seen a picture of either of these. Does anyone have any information on these? How did you make your case? Did you include a charger? Combination of battery pack and shipping container or separate battery pack and shipping container? I was thinking of building a case with built-in charger, fuse, and AC connector and cord such that when the unit arrived at the CAL facility all that would be needed would be to plug it in and allow the external battery pack to recharge while the unit being calibrated was plugged in, recharge the internal batteries, and calibrated. Or does the 732A also charge the external battery pack along with the internal batteries? The connector you need (complete with female contacts) is a Hypertronics P/N D01PB306FSTAH and is in stock at Kensington Electronics at $8.96 each (plus tax and shipping). Only problem is their $50 minimum order. The 'shell' only is P/N D01PB306NT and the female contact is P/N YSK006-010ANH (three needed). http://ecommerce.keiconn.com/hypertronics/D01PB306FSTAH I ordered two of the connectors from Fluke using a P/N that one
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Hi Roy, I would like to second Todd's advice about leaving the Fluke 732A's output voltage adjustment alone. You already have stable outputs and 24 microvolts high is very acceptable. My Datron 4910 (four output supply) has predictable digital output level settings that doesn't have any luck involved so it is a better candidate for resetting the standards than the Fluke 732A. I had Fluke reset them last calibration because I had just repaired the Datron 4910 and my voltages were all over the place but stable. Also I would expect your Fluke 732A to about as temperature stable as my Datron 4910. In my experience my 3458A needs to be at 23C to calibrate. Also it should have the fan filter freshly cleaned and record the 3458A's internal temperature. I have recorded (over several days) each Datron 4910 output with my 3458A and a switch and can say that the Datrons are temperature stable but not my 3458A. Charlie On 6/12/2014 7:54 AM, Bill Gold wrote: Roy: I use a ( General Cement ) GC 8276 adjustment tool to make the pot adjustments in the 732A. I use the end that has the recessed metal blade. The pots are about 3.5 inches back from the front panel. It sometimes is very difficult to engage the tool slot in the pot. It helps to look through the front panel hole with a small flashlight and observe the position of the slot in the pot ( i.e. 9, 10, 11 o'clock for example ). Then when you insert the adjustment tool you can get close to the point when you can engage the adjustment pot. Sometimes it will seem impossible to engage the tool into the slot, but with patience it can be done. Once you do engage the pot do whatever adjustment you want, don't pull the tool out, just leave the tool engaged with the pot so that if you want to make another small change you won't have to go through the same problem of trying again and again to engage. I have found that turning the pots may cause a drift which will show up days later due to the pot being dirty or whatever. So what I usually do is to turn the pot back and forth over several revolutions so that I can clean the contact wiper. I usually make an initial adjustment and then turn the pot about 1/32 of a turn in the opposite direction just to relieve any stress that might be there and cause a small change in the output voltage. I usually have very good results with these methods. But I will agree with Joe that sometimes it is better just to leave things alone and just use the known offset from 10 volts when checking or doing cals. Bill - Original Message - From: Todd Micallef tmical...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Roy, The 732A uses the 3059Y-1-101 type cermet pot for the 10V adjustment. You can use a simple plastic tweaking tool for adjustment. I believe you will need a fairly long tool. You can shine a light into one of the other holes to see the orientation of the pot. However, many people may prefer to leave the pot as is and just record the readings. It is going to drift anyway and won't stay adjusted for long. The drift may worsen once the pot position has changed too. I have adjusted mine, but only after the broken pots were replaced. Todd On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 9:57 AM, R.Phillips phill...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Joe Sorry if I am retracing steps, but I have recently had my 3458A restored/recal'd by Agilent - its good to have it back. I also have a Fluke 732A which I can now check. Currently it is 10.24 volts, I now feel confident to trim it to the 3458A. I have tried to see the trimmers in each of the three holes - they appear to be some way within, and I am wondering if you could confirm the type of pot. that is used and just how long a trimming device is required. Is this a special tool only available from Fluke ? Regards Roy Phillips. -Original Message- From: J. L. Trantham Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:09 PM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Charles, What size batteries did you use for your external pack and where are you located? In other words, how long can your external battery pack 'survive' keeping the 732A 'hot'? Is the external pack recharged at Fluke or does it have to make a round trip on the initial charge? Once I am convinced my unit is stable (which will probably be another six months or so, after I get my 3458A's re-calibrated by Agilent), I hope to be able to send it to Fluke for calibration. Fluke made a transit case (732A-7002) and a Battery Charger and Auxiliary Battery Case (732A-7003). However, I have never seen a picture of either of these. Does anyone have any information on these? How did you make your case? Did you include a charger? Combination of battery pack and shipping container or separate battery
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
On 8 Mar 2014 05:57, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com wrote: Michael wrote: The battery is big concern to me. When I called Fluke, one of the rep said it should be shipped to them hot Because 732A's battery life is very limited, it should be shipped using Morning Service. I was going to call FedEx if they have 12 hours service. And I belive most cal lab require the 732A to be delivered hot. The manual says so. No matter what you do, short of hand-delivering it if you live close enough, the internal battery does not have enough charge to reliably ship it, even overnight. You will need to build or buy a shipping container that has an auxiliary battery. Fluke sells external battery packs for $375, or you can make your own. Be careful about shipping issues on high energy batteries. Depending on the capacity, they may need to be declared as dangerous goods. I recently needed to ship a Lithium Ion battery about the size of a laptop battery. The courier I normally use (Interparcel, who subcontract to UPS, Fedex or whoever one chooses), wont handle batteries. Going directly to Fedex, without having a contract, cost a fortune, although they would carry the battery. The fact a battery is external to the equipment makes it even more tricky to ship, since I guess there is more chance of a short developing in such a case. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Charles, Thanks for the info on batteries. I agree, some are definitely better than others. However, I'm no 'connoisseur' of batteries yet. The 732A I got was 'unknown working condition' and I wanted the cheapest batteries I could find to test the unit and see if I could get it up and running. So far, it looks good. Do you wind up having to re-solder some of the battery wires in the battery module in order to use the 12 V 5 AH batteries or will they just swing to the other side since it appears that the (+) and (-) terminals will wind up on the same side, instead of opposite sides with the 6 V 4.5 AH batteries? I have not faced the shipping question yet, but, as David pointed out, there is an issue with shipping batteries. I suspect it could be shipped but would be ground and, therefore, need a huge battery in order to get it to the other side of the country 'hot'. I recall reading some thoughts on current drain for the unit when on batteries but I do not remember what it was. Clearly, it should be at a minimum, and therefore the battery should last the longest, when already 'hot' when removed from AC power. Has anyone done that experiment? I live in NW FL and I am not aware of Cal Labs in my neighborhood that could do the work. Atlanta, perhaps? Does anyone have a recommendation of a capable Cal facility 'close by' to NW FL? Short of sending it to Fluke or another facility, I will be limited to using my Agilent Cal'd 3458A to 'adjust' the 732A, then 'tracking' the 732A from year to year as the 3458A comes back from Cal. I paid less than Michael and more than you for my unit but it seems to work. I have seen these sell on theBay for $450 and up. Joe ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
In my humble opinion your are best off first checking for a local Cal Lab with a Josephson Junction Array Voltage Standard. You can then drop it off and pick it up your 732A. I would imagine the day of abuse during shipping has more effect on uncertainty then the rest of the year combined sitting in a controlled lab environment. And Speaking of Lab environments adding precise temp and humidity control will have a substantial effect on 732A and 3458A stability. Hooking a number of small electric heaters to PID controllers can provide even out room temperature. Also I would almost always assume the 732A is more accurate then your 3458A even if you have the 002 or HFL option. Has anyone attempted changing the battery technology to Li-Ion and redesigning the charger? I am sure you could get greatly improved battery life. Thomas Knox From: jlt...@att.net To: volt-nuts@febo.com Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 07:50:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Charles, Thanks for the info on batteries. I agree, some are definitely better than others. However, I'm no 'connoisseur' of batteries yet. The 732A I got was 'unknown working condition' and I wanted the cheapest batteries I could find to test the unit and see if I could get it up and running. So far, it looks good. Do you wind up having to re-solder some of the battery wires in the battery module in order to use the 12 V 5 AH batteries or will they just swing to the other side since it appears that the (+) and (-) terminals will wind up on the same side, instead of opposite sides with the 6 V 4.5 AH batteries? I have not faced the shipping question yet, but, as David pointed out, there is an issue with shipping batteries. I suspect it could be shipped but would be ground and, therefore, need a huge battery in order to get it to the other side of the country 'hot'. I recall reading some thoughts on current drain for the unit when on batteries but I do not remember what it was. Clearly, it should be at a minimum, and therefore the battery should last the longest, when already 'hot' when removed from AC power. Has anyone done that experiment? I live in NW FL and I am not aware of Cal Labs in my neighborhood that could do the work. Atlanta, perhaps? Does anyone have a recommendation of a capable Cal facility 'close by' to NW FL? Short of sending it to Fluke or another facility, I will be limited to using my Agilent Cal'd 3458A to 'adjust' the 732A, then 'tracking' the 732A from year to year as the 3458A comes back from Cal. I paid less than Michael and more than you for my unit but it seems to work. I have seen these sell on theBay for $450 and up. Joe ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Joe wrote: Do you wind up having to re-solder some of the battery wires in the battery module in order to use the 12 V 5 AH batteries or will they just swing to the other side since it appears that the (+) and (-) terminals will wind up on the same side, instead of opposite sides with the 6 V 4.5 AH batteries? Sorry, I don't recall. Obviously, you need to remove some of the wires since you only have 4 terminals. You also need to use a nibbler to enlarge the holes for the terminals. All of that will be instantly apparent when you have the batteries and the battery pack in front of you. I've only converted one myself, which was not mine -- all of mine have Fluke stickers on the back that say, EXTENDED BATTERY LIFE, which I believe is Fluke's way of indicating that they did the conversion. I have not faced the shipping question yet, but, as David pointed out, there is an issue with shipping batteries. I use FedEx overnight with first thing delivery and have not had any problems. They slap some colorful stickers on the box and off it goes. My external battery box is internally fused and has a Hypertronics panel-mount connector identical to the one on the 732A, so I use a cable with one of the Hypertronics plugs at each end to connect them. I built a padded wooden shipping crate with separate compartments for the 732A and the external battery pack and a channel for the cable. Speaking of the Hypertronics connectors, I expect to know more about how to order them from Fluke in the weeks to come. You may recall I asked a couple of weeks ago for confirmation that the panel-mount connectors on all 732As have male pins (by all I mean all of the newer ones with circular connectors for DC input, leaving aside the older ones with 4mm banana jacks). They do, which means the plugs need female contacts. This is backwards from the way these connectors are traditionally assembled. The part number I posted back on 12/30/13 is a current number, but it is a part used by the BioMed division and is NOT the connector we need -- the BioMed division assembles them the traditional way -- male contacts in the plug, and female contacts in the panel-mount connector. All of this came to light after I gave that part number to a friend and, like some others have reported, he received the plastic body parts but no contacts. He called Fluke and eventually received the contacts -- but they were male. After many e-mails and phone calls, it became clear (i) that Fluke had a supply-chain problem that caused the plastic bodies to be stocked and shipped without contacts, but (ii) the contacts that were supposed to come with that part number are the wrong gender for a 732A in any case. Fluke reports that the supply chain problems are fixed, so the plugs under that part number should now come with [male] contacts, but they have not yet created a new part number for the plug that 732A owners need (plug body with female contacts). When they do, Fluke will tell him, he will tell me, and I will post the details. All this was news to me, because my records show that the part number I posted is the one I ordered 8 or 10 years ago, and at that time I received plugs that work with the 732A. Puzzling. But in any case, my friend says Fluke understands the issue and will fix it. It took some effort, but in the end Fluke was very responsive to an individual volt nut hobbyist looking for parts for an instrument that went out of production in 1992 (I had no idea it was that long ago). They deserve high praise for this, particularly when you compare it to reports about support from other instrument makers. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Thomas wrote: In my humble opinion your are best off first checking for a local Cal Lab with a Josephson Junction Array Voltage Standard. What you need is a cal lab that is accredited under the NIST NVLAP program (or possibly by A2LA) and that has a DC source calibration uncertainty certified to be 0.02 ppm or less, at least at 10v. The Fluke cal lab meets this criterion, as do the Los Alamos and Sandia standards labs (and, of course, NIST itself). Precious few others do. A list of NVLAP-accredited labs can be found here: http://ts.nist.gov/standards/scopes/dclow.htm Certified uncertainties are found in each lab's current Scope of Accreditation document. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Surely that isn't true... otherwise laptop computers and cell phones wouldn't be allowed on board passenger aircraft. A laptop computer's battery would greatly exceed the power in the original 732A battery pack. -Chuck Harris Tom Miller wrote: If you change to Li-Ion, you give up the ability to ship by air or at least carry it in any passenger aircraft. You might look at the Li-Ion motorcycle batteries. They are designed to charge from a normal Pb-Ac system. Down side is a pair of them will run ~$600. They are 20 AH at 12 volts nominal. Regards, Tom ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Charles, What size batteries did you use for your external pack and where are you located? In other words, how long can your external battery pack 'survive' keeping the 732A 'hot'? Is the external pack recharged at Fluke or does it have to make a round trip on the initial charge? Once I am convinced my unit is stable (which will probably be another six months or so, after I get my 3458A's re-calibrated by Agilent), I hope to be able to send it to Fluke for calibration. Fluke made a transit case (732A-7002) and a Battery Charger and Auxiliary Battery Case (732A-7003). However, I have never seen a picture of either of these. Does anyone have any information on these? How did you make your case? Did you include a charger? Combination of battery pack and shipping container or separate battery pack and shipping container? I was thinking of building a case with built-in charger, fuse, and AC connector and cord such that when the unit arrived at the CAL facility all that would be needed would be to plug it in and allow the external battery pack to recharge while the unit being calibrated was plugged in, recharge the internal batteries, and calibrated. Or does the 732A also charge the external battery pack along with the internal batteries? The connector you need (complete with female contacts) is a Hypertronics P/N D01PB306FSTAH and is in stock at Kensington Electronics at $8.96 each (plus tax and shipping). Only problem is their $50 minimum order. The 'shell' only is P/N D01PB306NT and the female contact is P/N YSK006-010ANH (three needed). http://ecommerce.keiconn.com/hypertronics/D01PB306FSTAH I ordered two of the connectors from Fluke using a P/N that one of the Fluke folks in their eCal facility gave me, noting that someone else had asked the same question a couple of weeks earlier, with Fluke Item# 2181497, described as '100-166, PLUG - MALE, HYPERTRONICS'. They were $12.31 each (plus tax and shipping) and arrived as the shell only, no contacts. If Fluke solves their supply chain problem, I sure would like to get the six female contacts I need to make my connectors 'complete'. When I got on the phone with Fluke, I could never find anyone that had any knowledge about this. Is there anyone there I should ask for that might understand my question? I look forward to your posting the update from Fluke. Thanks. Joe ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Hi David, Our posts crossed. Note that the laptop battery has been independently safety tested. Or at least it should have been. Also you are no longer allowed to put batteries in you checked airline luggage, only carry-on and there are limits on the Lithium content (now expressed in WH to make it easier). This is pure safety addressing a very real hazard. The krytron restriction is ITAR (google it) as they are used to fire slapper detonators in nuclear weapons (that probably got a ping on a monitoring service;-). Robert G8RPI. From: David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2014, 22:04 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? You can ship a Li-Ion or Li-Po battery inside a laptop no problem, but not on its own. No it doesn't make sense except to the postal/shipping/airline safety types. Probably the same logic that applies to exporting krytrons (even though Made in China applies to these too).anymore). Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: 08 March 2014 21:36 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Surely that isn't true... otherwise laptop computers and cell phones wouldn't be allowed on board passenger aircraft. A laptop computer's battery would greatly exceed the power in the original 732A battery pack. -Chuck Harris ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Some laptop batteries are not allowed. Spares have some limits also. Better check because TSA will take them from you. Lithium-ion batteries (a.k.a.: rechargeable lithium, lithium polymer, LIPO, secondary lithium). Passengers may carry all consumer-sized lithium-ion batteries (no more than 8 grams of equivalent lithium content or 100 watt hours per battery). This size covers AA, AAA, cell phone, PDA, camera, camcorder, handheld game, tablet, and standard laptop computer batteries. The watt hours (Wh) rating is marked on newer lithium ion batteries and is explained in #3 below. Passengers can also bring two (2) larger lithium-ion batteries (more than 8 less than 25 grams of equivalent lithium content per battery or about 100-300 watt hours per battery) in their carry-on. This size covers the largest aftermarket extended-life laptop batteries and most lithium-ion batteries for professional-grade audio/visual equipment. Most lithium-ion batteries are below this size. - Original Message - From: Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Surely that isn't true... otherwise laptop computers and cell phones wouldn't be allowed on board passenger aircraft. A laptop computer's battery would greatly exceed the power in the original 732A battery pack. -Chuck Harris Tom Miller wrote: If you change to Li-Ion, you give up the ability to ship by air or at least carry it in any passenger aircraft. You might look at the Li-Ion motorcycle batteries. They are designed to charge from a normal Pb-Ac system. Down side is a pair of them will run ~$600. They are 20 AH at 12 volts nominal. Regards, Tom ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Unfortunately the hazards are indeed very real. The regulations were almost certainly introduced because a UPS cargo plane crashed in Dubai in 2010, killing both crew, as a result of a catastrophic fire in the cargo of 80,000 to 90,000 lithium batteries. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324110404578625801602671408 And surprise, surprise: 'It added that shippers of some of the lithium battery cargo loaded onto the plane in Hong Kong did not properly declare these shipments and did not provide battery test reports recommended under U.N. aviation guidelines.' (Which may be of interest to those buying those AD584LH voltage reference modules containing a lithium battery from Ebay). And from http://www.flyingmag.com/news/ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger In a *recent report issued by the FAA in conjunction with Transport Canada* http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-2.pdf, the agencies predicted there will be an average of six cargo plane crashes between now and 2021, with four of them likely to be caused by battery fires. Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/news/ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger#1FZYPdiLXxLz0Fby.99 'In a recent report issued by the FAA in conjunction with Transport Canada, the agencies predicted there will be an average of six cargo plane crashes between now and 2021, with four of them likely to be caused by battery fires.' Tony H On 08/03/2014 22:32, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi David, Our posts crossed. Note that the laptop battery has been independently safety tested. Or at least it should have been. Also you are no longer allowed to put batteries in you checked airline luggage, only carry-on and there are limits on the Lithium content (now expressed in WH to make it easier). This is pure safety addressing a very real hazard. The krytron restriction is ITAR (google it) as they are used to fire slapper detonators in nuclear weapons (that probably got a ping on a monitoring service;-). Robert G8RPI. From: David C. Partridgedavid.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2014, 22:04 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? You can ship a Li-Ion or Li-Po battery inside a laptop no problem, but not on its own. No it doesn't make sense except to the postal/shipping/airline safety types. Probably the same logic that applies to exporting krytrons (even though Made in China applies to these too).anymore). Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: 08 March 2014 21:36 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Surely that isn't true... otherwise laptop computers and cell phones wouldn't be allowed on board passenger aircraft. A laptop computer's battery would greatly exceed the power in the original 732A battery pack. -Chuck Harris ___ volt-nuts mailing list --volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go tohttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list --volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go tohttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
I think everyone missed my point, Replace the current battery with ANY other type battery that is not destroyed by deep cyclng. Perhaps Ni-Mh would be better. Ni-Mh also has a very consistent output voltage (Low voltage drop) until nearly discharged. Also a quick Google search found a wealth of information on shipping Li-Ion and it appears the 732A batteries are right on the edge of no shipping restriction. Thomas Knox Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 23:56:19 + From: vn...@toneh.demon.co.uk To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Unfortunately the hazards are indeed very real. The regulations were almost certainly introduced because a UPS cargo plane crashed in Dubai in 2010, killing both crew, as a result of a catastrophic fire in the cargo of 80,000 to 90,000 lithium batteries. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324110404578625801602671408 And surprise, surprise: 'It added that shippers of some of the lithium battery cargo loaded onto the plane in Hong Kong did not properly declare these shipments and did not provide battery test reports recommended under U.N. aviation guidelines.' (Which may be of interest to those buying those AD584LH voltage reference modules containing a lithium battery from Ebay). And from http://www.flyingmag.com/news/ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger In a *recent report issued by the FAA in conjunction with Transport Canada* http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-2.pdf, the agencies predicted there will be an average of six cargo plane crashes between now and 2021, with four of them likely to be caused by battery fires. Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/news/ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger#1FZYPdiLXxLz0Fby.99 'In a recent report issued by the FAA in conjunction with Transport Canada, the agencies predicted there will be an average of six cargo plane crashes between now and 2021, with four of them likely to be caused by battery fires.' Tony H On 08/03/2014 22:32, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi David, Our posts crossed. Note that the laptop battery has been independently safety tested. Or at least it should have been. Also you are no longer allowed to put batteries in you checked airline luggage, only carry-on and there are limits on the Lithium content (now expressed in WH to make it easier). This is pure safety addressing a very real hazard. The krytron restriction is ITAR (google it) as they are used to fire slapper detonators in nuclear weapons (that probably got a ping on a monitoring service;-). Robert G8RPI. From: David C. Partridgedavid.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2014, 22:04 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? You can ship a Li-Ion or Li-Po battery inside a laptop no problem, but not on its own. No it doesn't make sense except to the postal/shipping/airline safety types. Probably the same logic that applies to exporting krytrons (even though Made in China applies to these too).anymore). Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: 08 March 2014 21:36 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Surely that isn't true... otherwise laptop computers and cell phones wouldn't be allowed on board passenger aircraft. A laptop computer's battery would greatly exceed the power in the original 732A battery pack. -Chuck Harris ___ volt-nuts mailing list --volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go tohttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list --volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go tohttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Hi nuts, This is my first message. Just reading the posted messages is a big learning to me so I didn't post but instead trying to read all. Here is my issue. I received a Fluke 732A yesterday which was purchased from an eBay seller. (1) I plugged in and started measuring the 3 voltages and thermistor resistance value. After about 2 hours later all 3 voltages were stabilized and thermistor value stabilized after 24 hours. All voltages and thermistor values were measured on a HP 3457 which was calibrated and certified by a local cal lab 10 months ago. Here is how I measure: After changing the connection to a different voltage I wait 30 second. I start STAT and wait 1 minute and R MEAN. 10V (10.000360 36.0ppm, 360uV) 1V (1.383 38.3ppm, 38.3uV) 1.018V (1.0180200 20ppm, 20uV) According to the manual adjustable(calibration) ranges are: 10V 5ppm 50uV 1V 5ppm 5uV 1.018 50ppm 50uV So obviously either 732A or 3457A is wrong. I tried to contact the person who calibrated the HP 3457A. No response. (2) No light on BTRY CHG and IN CAL Rear panel Battery Operation switch is on. (3) Front panel calibration hole I put a thin flat blade driver into the holes. I couldn't feel anything until 4 1/4 inside where I felt something but not the potentiometer. I offered to the seller that if I find the 732A is no problem but only requires the new battery, refunding $150 for the battery will close the deal. All other case, I return the item. He responded Just return it. My questions: (1) Which one is wrong the DMM or 732A? (2) What is the cheapest battery replacement cost? (3) Were the calibration mechanism removed or they are there? In manual I couldn't find any detailed description or diagram of it. Last, I paid $650 plus $35 shipping. Do you think it is worth without battery, if voltages are in the range? Michael ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Best I can tell, the 3457A 1 year spec is 0.0040% of reading + 19 counts for 6.5 digits on the 30V scale, 100PLC, cal temp +/- 5 deg C. Your 10.00036 V reading is therefore +/- 0.00059 V. I'd say you can't really tell with the 3457A whether the 732A is close or not. Orin. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Michael Hong mikeya...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi nuts, This is my first message. Just reading the posted messages is a big learning to me so I didn't post but instead trying to read all. Here is my issue. I received a Fluke 732A yesterday which was purchased from an eBay seller. (1) I plugged in and started measuring the 3 voltages and thermistor resistance value. After about 2 hours later all 3 voltages were stabilized and thermistor value stabilized after 24 hours. All voltages and thermistor values were measured on a HP 3457 which was calibrated and certified by a local cal lab 10 months ago. Here is how I measure: After changing the connection to a different voltage I wait 30 second. I start STAT and wait 1 minute and R MEAN. 10V (10.000360 36.0ppm, 360uV) 1V(1.383 38.3ppm, 38.3uV) 1.018V (1.0180200 20ppm, 20uV) According to the manual adjustable(calibration) ranges are: 10V 5ppm 50uV 1V 5ppm 5uV 1.018 50ppm 50uV So obviously either 732A or 3457A is wrong. I tried to contact the person who calibrated the HP 3457A. No response. (2) No light on BTRY CHG and IN CAL Rear panel Battery Operation switch is on. (3) Front panel calibration hole I put a thin flat blade driver into the holes. I couldn't feel anything until 4 1/4 inside where I felt something but not the potentiometer. I offered to the seller that if I find the 732A is no problem but only requires the new battery, refunding $150 for the battery will close the deal. All other case, I return the item. He responded Just return it. My questions: (1) Which one is wrong the DMM or 732A? (2) What is the cheapest battery replacement cost? (3) Were the calibration mechanism removed or they are there? In manual I couldn't find any detailed description or diagram of it. Last, I paid $650 plus $35 shipping. Do you think it is worth without battery, if voltages are in the range? Michael ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Michael, I would recommend you download the manual if you have not already done so. (Sorry, just noticed you had looked at the manual.) I don't think you are going to have enough resolution with the 3457A to characterize the 732A, other than a rough idea of stability. You will need a 3458A, a Solartron 7081 or some other 8 1/2 digit DMM. The unit uses four 6 V SLA batteries that are relatively cheap. I ordered 8 of them since shipping was the same, whether I got 4 or 8. Unless they were recently replaced, you will need to replace them. The 'In Cal' light needs to be 'reset' after the unit is powered up, stabilized, and calibrated. It remains on as long as there is continuous power applied to the unit, either from AC, the battery pack, or an external battery attached to the connector on the back. I have a spare connector, yours for cost plus shipping, if you need one. Two others on the list have sent me the money for one but work has really interfered with my life this week and I have not yet shipped them. It will be tomorrow. (Sorry, guys, my apologies.) The batteries I ordered are these: http://www.batteryclerk.com/store/p/80492-Panasonic-LC-RB064P-Sealed-Lead-Ac id-AGM-VRLA-Battery.html $5.69 each plus shipping. If power is lost, power must be re-attached and the 'In Cal' light 'reset'. The light is 'reset' by connecting the negative terminal to a spot in the 'reset' hole just below the 'In Cal' light. If the battery charge light is not on, and the unit is plugged in, the batteries are either completely charged, not connected, dead, or there is a problem with the charger circuit. My bet is a battery issue since I bet you had to plug in the unit to get it to work. There is a multi-turn pot inside each of the three holes and they are difficult to get to but can be seen if you have a flashlight to shine in essentially parallel to your line of sight. If the 10 V can't be brought to exactly 10.000 V, there are 'jumpers' under the top layer of insulation for the 'heated unit' that can be adjusted to bring it 'in range'. At least I was able to bring mine 'in range' and 'calibrated' against my Agilent Cal'd 3458A. Mine has been on continuously now for about 2 months. I 'calibrated' it after it was on for about a week. It now reads about 9.920 V and seems extremely stable (3458A with NDIG=8 and NPLC=60). I'm thinking of 're-calibrating' it and see how close it will stay to 10.000 VDC. I think it will be more stable the longer it is on. I have no idea of how long it was off before I turned it on. The schematic of the A5 Reference PCB Assembly shows the calibration adjustments and the drawing of that assembly shows the location of the adjustments. They are deep inside the unit. You'll need a small flat bladed tool, a flashlight, and probably a magnifier. I used a length of 12 ga. copper wire with one end flattened to make a screwdriver. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Michael Hong Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 6:19 PM To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Hi nuts, This is my first message. Just reading the posted messages is a big learning to me so I didn't post but instead trying to read all. Here is my issue. I received a Fluke 732A yesterday which was purchased from an eBay seller. (1) I plugged in and started measuring the 3 voltages and thermistor resistance value. After about 2 hours later all 3 voltages were stabilized and thermistor value stabilized after 24 hours. All voltages and thermistor values were measured on a HP 3457 which was calibrated and certified by a local cal lab 10 months ago. Here is how I measure: After changing the connection to a different voltage I wait 30 second. I start STAT and wait 1 minute and R MEAN. 10V (10.000360 36.0ppm, 360uV) 1V (1.383 38.3ppm, 38.3uV) 1.018V (1.0180200 20ppm, 20uV) According to the manual adjustable(calibration) ranges are: 10V 5ppm 50uV 1V 5ppm 5uV 1.018 50ppm 50uV So obviously either 732A or 3457A is wrong. I tried to contact the person who calibrated the HP 3457A. No response. (2) No light on BTRY CHG and IN CAL Rear panel Battery Operation switch is on. (3) Front panel calibration hole I put a thin flat blade driver into the holes. I couldn't feel anything until 4 1/4 inside where I felt something but not the potentiometer. I offered to the seller that if I find the 732A is no problem but only requires the new battery, refunding $150 for the battery will close the deal. All other case, I return the item. He responded Just return it. My questions: (1) Which one is wrong the DMM or 732A? (2) What is the cheapest battery replacement cost? (3) Were the calibration mechanism removed or they are there? In manual I couldn't find any detailed description or diagram of it. Last, I paid $650 plus $35 shipping. Do you think it is worth
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Thank you all for your concerns. I will reply out of order, sorry. IN CAL right came on as I poked(turned) with a slim screw driver. Yes, I know it supposed to be on after calibration. AC PWR light turned and stayed on ever since I plugged in the main yesterday. When I pulled out the main plug as you said, voltages went down immediately. Probably the battery is completely gone. I have been asking quote on this standard from Fluke down to local no name guy long before I buy it. I have no intention of calibrating this by myself. That defeats the purpose of the purchase. Because it will be my primary standard. I just wanted to turn slightly to both directions to see if the potentiometer is working since the 732A's volts looked out of ranges. I calibrated 8 720As with Nanovolt Null meter and Keithley 155 last week, so I have no fun left to turning the small thing. The battery is big concern to me. When I called Fluke, one of the rep said it should be shipped to them hot Because 732A's battery life is very limited, it should be shipped using Morning Service. I was going to call FedEx if they have 12 hours service. And I belive most cal lab require the 732A to be delivered hot. The manual says so. Thermistor value is now 4470.1132 ohm It changes less than 50mmohm/hour now. Once I purchase one more 732A, I will experiment how close it come back to before turn-off value. Again thank you all. Best Regards, Michael ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Michael, Definitely need to keep it on, ship it hot, and have an external battery pack attached. IIRC, the internal batteries are good only for about 4 hours. I have not tested that though. I think I read this in the manual or one of the list members mentioned it. That's why the connector is on the back, to allow attaching an external battery pack for longer duration away from AC power. I would love to get mine calibrated with Fluke but I think I want to wait a few more months before undertaking this. Any suggestions from the group on how long to leave it on? What 'drift' rate I would want before concluding it is 'stable'? I have a 3458A Opt 002 that I can use to track it with and another 3458A that I can track the thermistor with. Removing the battery pack is easy, just remove four screws and slide it out. Certainly worth doing if you are going to keep it. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Michael Hong Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 10:22 PM To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it? Thank you all for your concerns. I will reply out of order, sorry. IN CAL right came on as I poked(turned) with a slim screw driver. Yes, I know it supposed to be on after calibration. AC PWR light turned and stayed on ever since I plugged in the main yesterday. When I pulled out the main plug as you said, voltages went down immediately. Probably the battery is completely gone. I have been asking quote on this standard from Fluke down to local no name guy long before I buy it. I have no intention of calibrating this by myself. That defeats the purpose of the purchase. Because it will be my primary standard. I just wanted to turn slightly to both directions to see if the potentiometer is working since the 732A's volts looked out of ranges. I calibrated 8 720As with Nanovolt Null meter and Keithley 155 last week, so I have no fun left to turning the small thing. The battery is big concern to me. When I called Fluke, one of the rep said it should be shipped to them hot Because 732A's battery life is very limited, it should be shipped using Morning Service. I was going to call FedEx if they have 12 hours service. And I belive most cal lab require the 732A to be delivered hot. The manual says so. Thermistor value is now 4470.1132 ohm It changes less than 50mmohm/hour now. Once I purchase one more 732A, I will experiment how close it come back to before turn-off value. Again thank you all. Best Regards, Michael ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A: Return it or keep it?
Michael wrote: I received a Fluke 732A yesterday which was purchased from an eBay seller. * * * (1) Which one is wrong the DMM or 732A? As others have said, you have no way to tell with what you have. I note that the seller's 34401A read the 10v output as 10.0004v, pretty consistent with the 10.00036 your 3457A read. So it seems likely that the 732A really is significantly farther off than the cal pot will correct, and the internal jumpers will need to be changed. (2) What is the cheapest battery replacement cost? Fluke built the 732A with four, 6v, 4.5AH SLA batteries. For some years now, when Fluke replaces the batteries, they use two, 12v, 5AH SLA batteries for a modest increase in capacity. I believe the best course is to follow Fluke's lead, and use two, 12v, 5AH batteries when I replace them. Also, I strongly advise against using the cheapest batteries you can get. Those will invariably be very low quality batteries, which will fail prematurely. There is a huge difference in quality from good SLAs to poor ones. I have found that PowerSonic SLA batteries give good service in the 732A (about $35 each). [NOTE: Be very careful shopping for SLA batteries -- the retail SLA market is absolutely full of fraudulent marketing. For example, http://www.batteryclerk.com/ does everything possible to make you think you are buying genuine brand-name batteries, but all they sell are AJC brand batteries, which are unmitigated crap. In tiny print they say, This is an AJC Brand replacement compatible with and then in giant red letters, Panasonic (or other name brand) Sealed Lead Acid Battery. Many, many vendors play this same game. Be absolutely positive you're getting the real thing.] In order for the 732A to do what it is supposed to do (be, without question, the most accurate voltage standard you own), you will need to send it to Fluke for calibration (or to one of the very, very few other labs with sufficient accuracy and precision to calibrate a 0.1 ppm voltage standard). You will pay from $700 to $1500 for this. Every year. So trying to save $50 on batteries is beyond foolish. Last, I paid $650 plus $35 shipping. Do you think it is worth without battery, if voltages are in the range? It is hard to say what a fair price is. I have three, all of which came from working calibration labs (so I know they had been back to Fluke every year from new). Mine have never needed anything other than batteries. The most expensive of the bunch cost me $325. But, as noted above, the cost of the hardware is not the real expense -- it's those trips back to Fluke for calibration. (If you're not willing to send it to Fluke for calibration, you're just wasting money buying a 732A. You should get one of these instead): http://www.voltagestandard.com/New_Products.html Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
