[volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
David, I have as many as 6 different manuals for the 332/335 A/B/Ds. I recommend this one, from 1978, which covers most of he different revisisons of the instruments, in best quality: http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/335dimeng0100.pdf You have to find out, which chopper, reference, and sample string versions you have. The rest most probably is identical, apart from the additional differential amplifier of the 335, of course. Would you mind describing in detail these 3 circuits of your instrument, please? Frank ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Hi guys, I am also watching this thread with interest. I became infected with volt-nuttery many decades ago, fresh out of uni, in the standards lab for (then) Australia's big Telco. One of our workhorses was a newish 335 which I loved using - unlike Charles' experience, we all found the last digit to be "useful" and certainly useable in doing various transfers and comparison (not absolute accuracy, of course). Many years later I scored a 332B/AF ( Mosfet chopper, top three digits adjustable, and ref amp replaced (apparently) with LTFLU-1CH) but of uncertain provenance, and it has been one of my pet projects over the years. Again, I find the last digit fairly quiet when looking at the delta between it and a bank of Weston cells with a microvoltmeter. Well. Quiet in the short term, but the unit does have issues at a 1-5 minutes time scale with random twitches and jumps, This is all part of my "project" to sort out. So far I have made a number of modification to reduce the power consumption ( now around 11W idle down from around 32, with a consequent reduction in temp rise and warm-up time) and am now turning my attention to the precision bits. I realise that some my just need a good calibrator without futzing around - and I am sure that the advice to "go 5440" is the right advice for many. Sadly, in Australia, there don't seem to be a bunch of people with 2 5440's they want to be rid of! But I'm having lots of fun with my 332. Roman -Original Message- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David C. Partridge Sent: Monday, 10 July 2017 1:03 AM To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B Thanks Charles, Dave -Original Message- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles Steinmetz Sent: 09 July 2017 13:31 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B David wrote: > When running through the calibration of the unit last night, I found > that it was really quite noisy > > So, is it worthwhile to replace the chopper amplifier board and > replace electrolytic caps or would that just make marginal > improvements > > If it would still be an unstable, noisy brute after I finished that, then I > think I'll put it on eBay ... My experience with these extends back to when they were new. They are definitely noisy even when they are in perfect condition, and this many years on they tend to be quite unreliable even if they have been thoroughly gone through. Also, something I haven't seen mentioned much is that the last decade (LSD) is purely for decoration. The accuracy of the 332 on its best day is worse than one division of the second-last decade. In my expeience, the original choppers work very well unless they are broken. I do not expect that a chopper-stabilized op amp would provide meaningful improvement. I advise passing on the 332A/B/D and holding out for a 5440B. You will not be sorry. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
On 08/07/2017 21:36, Andreas Bergmann wrote: > Hello Dave, > > Am 08.07.2017 14:09, schrieb David C. Partridge: >> 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a retrofit using >> a modern chopper op-amp or similar? > > > You may want to have a look at this thread: > https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-332baf-in-the-slaughterhouse/ > > http://www.friedrich-messtechnik.de/index.php/bauanleitungen/87-fluke335-332 > (sorry, it is German) > > I have created some PCBs based on the schematics shown on this website. > > If you are interested, I can send you one for the shipping costs. > > It is working well in my Fluke 3330B which is using the same design as the > 332. > > Regards, > > Andreas > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > . > Hi Andreas, I also have a 3330B which could do with an updated chopper PCB, how many spare boards do you have ( I only need 1) Regards, M K ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Dave, I don't know where you are based, but I happen to have two 5440B's I want to get rid of. Anyone else in Europe who is interested can also react, of course :) Met vriendelijke groet, Rob Klein verstuurd vanaf mijn smartphone Op 9 jul. 2017 17:33, om 17:33, "David C. Partridge" schreef: >Thanks Charles, > >Dave > >-Original Message- >From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of >Charles Steinmetz >Sent: 09 July 2017 13:31 >To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement >Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B > >David wrote: > >> When running through the calibration of the unit last night, I found >> that it was really quite noisy > > >> So, is it worthwhile to replace the chopper amplifier board and >> replace electrolytic caps or would that just make marginal >> improvements >> >> If it would still be an unstable, noisy brute after I finished that, >then I think I'll put it on eBay ... > >My experience with these extends back to when they were new. They are >definitely noisy even when they are in perfect condition, and this many >years on they tend to be quite unreliable even if they have been >thoroughly gone through. Also, something I haven't seen mentioned much >is that the last decade (LSD) is purely for decoration. The accuracy >of the 332 on its best day is worse than one division of the >second-last decade. > >In my expeience, the original choppers work very well unless they are >broken. I do not expect that a chopper-stabilized op amp would provide >meaningful improvement. > >I advise passing on the 332A/B/D and holding out for a 5440B. You will >not be sorry. > >Best regards, > >Charles > > >___ >volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >___ >volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Thanks Charles, Dave -Original Message- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles Steinmetz Sent: 09 July 2017 13:31 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B David wrote: > When running through the calibration of the unit last night, I found > that it was really quite noisy > > So, is it worthwhile to replace the chopper amplifier board and > replace electrolytic caps or would that just make marginal > improvements > > If it would still be an unstable, noisy brute after I finished that, then I > think I'll put it on eBay ... My experience with these extends back to when they were new. They are definitely noisy even when they are in perfect condition, and this many years on they tend to be quite unreliable even if they have been thoroughly gone through. Also, something I haven't seen mentioned much is that the last decade (LSD) is purely for decoration. The accuracy of the 332 on its best day is worse than one division of the second-last decade. In my expeience, the original choppers work very well unless they are broken. I do not expect that a chopper-stabilized op amp would provide meaningful improvement. I advise passing on the 332A/B/D and holding out for a 5440B. You will not be sorry. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
David wrote: When running through the calibration of the unit last night, I found that it was really quite noisy > So, is it worthwhile to replace the chopper amplifier board and replace electrolytic caps or would that just make marginal improvements If it would still be an unstable, noisy brute after I finished that, then I think I'll put it on eBay ... My experience with these extends back to when they were new. They are definitely noisy even when they are in perfect condition, and this many years on they tend to be quite unreliable even if they have been thoroughly gone through. Also, something I haven't seen mentioned much is that the last decade (LSD) is purely for decoration. The accuracy of the 332 on its best day is worse than one division of the second-last decade. In my expeience, the original choppers work very well unless they are broken. I do not expect that a chopper-stabilized op amp would provide meaningful improvement. I advise passing on the 332A/B/D and holding out for a 5440B. You will not be sorry. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
I have the offer of a bare PCB for a replacement chopper circuit which is described here: <http://www.friedrich-messtechnik.de/index.php/bauanleitungen/87-fluke335-332> When running through the calibration of the unit last night, I found that it was really quite noisy with the output varying by 10s of micro-volts, and the calibration potentiometers were also quite noisy and difficult to set accurately (I was using NPLC 100 setting). So, is it worthwhile to replace the chopper amplifier board and replace electrolytic caps or would that just make marginal improvements (I saw one of Dr. Frank's posts on EEVBLOG indicating that these were quite noisy beasts). If it would still be an unstable, noisy brute after I finished that, then I think I'll put it on eBay ... Now to try to lug the 4808 up to my work room to see it that will work! Dave -Original Message- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jason Pepas Sent: 08 July 2017 21:07 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B Following this thread eagerly -- I just won a 332B on ebay last week! On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Dave M wrote: > David, > I have a 332B as well, although it's been loaned out for the past > couple of years to a friend. I have the US Army manual PDF also, and > have found it to be pretty complete, at least complete enough to get > us through a couple of repairs. > What is missing from the manual? > > The second page in the PDF has a statement that says: > "This manual is an authentication of the manufacturer’s commercial > literature which, through usage, has been found to cover the data > required to operate and maintain this equipment. Since the manual was > not prepared in accordance with military specifications, the format > has not been structured to consider level of maintenance, nor to > include a formal section on depot overhaul standards. > This manual contains copyrighted information that is printed with > permission of John Fluke Manufacturing Company, Seattle, Washington." > > From that statement, I expect that the Army manual is just a > reproduction of the commercial Fluke manual for the 332B. > > Cheers, > Dave M > > > David C. Partridge wrote: > >> Amongst the stuff I recently acquired is a Fluke 332B (sn 4151). >> >> I found the manual for the 332D on the Fluke website, but can't find >> one specifically for the 332B apart from an incomplete US Army >> version. >> >> I have some questions: >> >> 1) Does anyone know where I can find the matching manual >> >> 2) If not, how useful is the 332D manual? >> >> 3) It was last calibrated in 2010, and appears to be consistently low >> in output (about 5mV at 100V, 25mV at 500V, 50mV at 1000V) after >> being on for an hour. Is that the sort of error I should expect >> after that period? >> >> 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a >> retrofit using a modern chopper op-amp or similar? >> >> >> Thanks >> Dave >> > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m ailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow > the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Hello Dave, Am 08.07.2017 14:09, schrieb David C. Partridge: 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a retrofit using a modern chopper op-amp or similar? You may want to have a look at this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-332baf-in-the-slaughterhouse/ http://www.friedrich-messtechnik.de/index.php/bauanleitungen/87-fluke335-332 (sorry, it is German) I have created some PCBs based on the schematics shown on this website. If you are interested, I can send you one for the shipping costs. It is working well in my Fluke 3330B which is using the same design as the 332. Regards, Andreas ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Following this thread eagerly -- I just won a 332B on ebay last week! On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Dave M wrote: > David, > I have a 332B as well, although it's been loaned out for the past couple > of years to a friend. I have the US Army manual PDF also, and have found > it to be pretty complete, at least complete enough to get us through a > couple of repairs. > What is missing from the manual? > > The second page in the PDF has a statement that says: > "This manual is an authentication of the manufacturer’s commercial > literature which, through usage, has been found to cover the data required > to operate and maintain this equipment. Since the manual was not prepared > in accordance with military specifications, the format has not been > structured to consider level of maintenance, nor to include a formal > section on depot overhaul standards. > This manual contains copyrighted information that is printed with > permission of John Fluke Manufacturing Company, Seattle, Washington." > > From that statement, I expect that the Army manual is just a reproduction > of the commercial Fluke manual for the 332B. > > Cheers, > Dave M > > > David C. Partridge wrote: > >> Amongst the stuff I recently acquired is a Fluke 332B (sn 4151). >> >> I found the manual for the 332D on the Fluke website, but can't find >> one specifically for the 332B apart from an incomplete US Army >> version. >> >> I have some questions: >> >> 1) Does anyone know where I can find the matching manual >> >> 2) If not, how useful is the 332D manual? >> >> 3) It was last calibrated in 2010, and appears to be consistently low >> in output (about 5mV at 100V, 25mV at 500V, 50mV at 1000V) after >> being on for an hour. Is that the sort of error I should expect >> after that period? >> >> 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a >> retrofit using a modern chopper op-amp or similar? >> >> >> Thanks >> Dave >> > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
David, I have a 332B as well, although it's been loaned out for the past couple of years to a friend. I have the US Army manual PDF also, and have found it to be pretty complete, at least complete enough to get us through a couple of repairs. What is missing from the manual? The second page in the PDF has a statement that says: "This manual is an authentication of the manufacturer’s commercial literature which, through usage, has been found to cover the data required to operate and maintain this equipment. Since the manual was not prepared in accordance with military specifications, the format has not been structured to consider level of maintenance, nor to include a formal section on depot overhaul standards. This manual contains copyrighted information that is printed with permission of John Fluke Manufacturing Company, Seattle, Washington." From that statement, I expect that the Army manual is just a reproduction of the commercial Fluke manual for the 332B. Cheers, Dave M David C. Partridge wrote: Amongst the stuff I recently acquired is a Fluke 332B (sn 4151). I found the manual for the 332D on the Fluke website, but can't find one specifically for the 332B apart from an incomplete US Army version. I have some questions: 1) Does anyone know where I can find the matching manual 2) If not, how useful is the 332D manual? 3) It was last calibrated in 2010, and appears to be consistently low in output (about 5mV at 100V, 25mV at 500V, 50mV at 1000V) after being on for an hour. Is that the sort of error I should expect after that period? 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a retrofit using a modern chopper op-amp or similar? Thanks Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
David: The 332D and the 332B are identical except for the accuracy specs for the stability of the output voltages. 332B spec for 10 Volts is +/- .002% (20 ppm) for 90 days while the 332D spec for 10 Volts is +/- .001% (10 ppm) for 60 days. The monthly drift specs are also slightly better on the D than the B. I suspect that FLUKE simply aged and selected a more stable reference device along with matching the resistors in the sampling string for less drift. For all of that you paid US$2,595 for the 332B and US$2,995 for the 332D in 1973. I seem to remember someone replacing the chopper assembly with something a little more modern. Don't know where I saw that. I have a B and a D and both seemed to be very stable with the existing chopper assembly. One thing I did find is that the electrolitic caps have a high tendency to go bad. Not the big ones on the raw supply but those on the various plug in assemblies. I seem to remember that they were in a range of 1 ufd to 47 ufd or so. So check them all or better yet just recap. You will save yourself a LOT of troubleshooting time in the long run. There is also a discussion of this subject either on VoltNuts or EEVBLOG. Bill - Original Message - From: "David C. Partridge" To: "'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'" Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2017 5:09 AM Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B > Amongst the stuff I recently acquired is a Fluke 332B (sn 4151). > > I found the manual for the 332D on the Fluke website, but can't find one > specifically for the 332B apart from an incomplete US Army version. > > I have some questions: > > 1) Does anyone know where I can find the matching manual > > 2) If not, how useful is the 332D manual? > > 3) It was last calibrated in 2010, and appears to be consistently low in > output (about 5mV at 100V, 25mV at 500V, 50mV at 1000V) after being on for > an hour. Is that the sort of error I should expect after that period? > > 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a retrofit using > a modern chopper op-amp or similar? > > > Thanks > Dave > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Amongst the stuff I recently acquired is a Fluke 332B (sn 4151). I found the manual for the 332D on the Fluke website, but can't find one specifically for the 332B apart from an incomplete US Army version. I have some questions: 1) Does anyone know where I can find the matching manual 2) If not, how useful is the 332D manual? 3) It was last calibrated in 2010, and appears to be consistently low in output (about 5mV at 100V, 25mV at 500V, 50mV at 1000V) after being on for an hour. Is that the sort of error I should expect after that period? 4) I'm leery of the chopper amp, did anyone (Dr. Frank?) do a retrofit using a modern chopper op-amp or similar? Thanks Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Very interesting. What series resistor did you have these results with? Very interested to compare spec'd temp co. Regards, Chris Sent from my SMRTphone Original message From: Jerry Hancock Date: 2/20/17 2:51 PM (GMT-06:00) To: kc9ieq Cc: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B I took some of the 100K 1/4 watt resistors from my DAS-46 and heated them with a soldering iron. They ran high pretty quickly. I then used a cheap, 1% Chinese brand metal film and they ran high just about as quickly. The 5% Chinese brand ran low a lot faster. Just bringing the soldering iron near them Interesting in that using one of each, the resistance stayed about right on the parallel value. I then used a high quality Vishay and I couldn’t get it to move with the soldering iron without touching it. These resistors cost about .40 per at Mouser. I was just using my Agilent DMM so I’m sure they were moving, just not within the resolution of the meter. The bottom line is that the carbon comp I replaced with the 50 cent per Vishay was a good move. Had I used the 5% I have, it would have been about the same. > On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:36 PM, kc9ieq wrote: > > Very interesting, very curious to hear your conclusion! > > My thought would be to replace these with standard value 5% resistors having > good temp co, as calibration should surely make up for any subpar values-- > my thinking is that temp drift would be a more major consideration for > overall stability. If this is a false assumption of would certainly like to > learn why. > Perhaps the old Allen Bradley carbon comps were special in this regard, but > the data sheet I've seen for currently available comp resistors had a > horrible temperature coefficient-- much worse than the "better" film > resistors available today. I stock the Vishay PR02 metal films for > rebuilding old tube stuff, which have a temp comp of +/- 250ppm/K. There are > much more stable options out there, but I chose this line because of the 500V > rating and dark red/brown color which blends into an old chassis more so than > tan or bright blue. > > Regards, > Chris > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
I took some of the 100K 1/4 watt resistors from my DAS-46 and heated them with a soldering iron. They ran high pretty quickly. I then used a cheap, 1% Chinese brand metal film and they ran high just about as quickly. The 5% Chinese brand ran low a lot faster. Just bringing the soldering iron near them Interesting in that using one of each, the resistance stayed about right on the parallel value. I then used a high quality Vishay and I couldn’t get it to move with the soldering iron without touching it. These resistors cost about .40 per at Mouser. I was just using my Agilent DMM so I’m sure they were moving, just not within the resolution of the meter. The bottom line is that the carbon comp I replaced with the 50 cent per Vishay was a good move. Had I used the 5% I have, it would have been about the same. > On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:36 PM, kc9ieq wrote: > > Very interesting, very curious to hear your conclusion! > > My thought would be to replace these with standard value 5% resistors having > good temp co, as calibration should surely make up for any subpar values-- > my thinking is that temp drift would be a more major consideration for > overall stability. If this is a false assumption of would certainly like to > learn why. > Perhaps the old Allen Bradley carbon comps were special in this regard, but > the data sheet I've seen for currently available comp resistors had a > horrible temperature coefficient-- much worse than the "better" film > resistors available today. I stock the Vishay PR02 metal films for > rebuilding old tube stuff, which have a temp comp of +/- 250ppm/K. There are > much more stable options out there, but I chose this line because of the 500V > rating and dark red/brown color which blends into an old chassis more so than > tan or bright blue. > > Regards, > Chris > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Very interesting, very curious to hear your conclusion! My thought would be to replace these with standard value 5% resistors having good temp co, as calibration should surely make up for any subpar values-- my thinking is that temp drift would be a more major consideration for overall stability. If this is a false assumption of would certainly like to learn why. Perhaps the old Allen Bradley carbon comps were special in this regard, but the data sheet I've seen for currently available comp resistors had a horrible temperature coefficient-- much worse than the "better" film resistors available today. I stock the Vishay PR02 metal films for rebuilding old tube stuff, which have a temp comp of +/- 250ppm/K. There are much more stable options out there, but I chose this line because of the 500V rating and dark red/brown color which blends into an old chassis more so than tan or bright blue. Regards, Chris Sent from my SMRTphone Original message From: Jerry Hancock Date: 2/20/17 2:19 PM (GMT-06:00) To: kc9ieq , Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B I have a D model but I would thin Dr. Frank would be able to address the difference D to B. I recently went thru a Dial a Source DAS-46 finding so many (most) of the carbon comp resistors had changed value +30%. But, and this is the important ‘But’, the typical 1% metal film resistors don’t have good tempco. So I wonder if replacing these 40yr old resistors was a good idea. Yes, they have drifted higher, but since they all drifted up by the same percentage, the circuit still worked. I bought most of the high value from Mouser using Vishay as the default unless I couldn’t get them for some reason. I am running a test of the stability over 36,750 seconds (has to do with 10K samples with the 3457A in NPLC 100 taking about 3.675 seconds per) to see if the stability is better now vs with the carbon comp. Not that I would swap them back in, just curious. > On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:01 PM, kc9ieq via volt-nuts wrote: > > Thanks John and Jerry for the replies. > After a visual inspection and noting one questionable looking capacitor, > (breached seal), I've systematically gone through and checked every single > electrolytic capacitor in the unit for C and ESR. No fewer than NINE have > been identified as definitely defective- A few of which have effectively > failed open. Surprisingly, most of these are Sprague 30D and TVA series. > There are also a dozen or so by Amperex/Phillips (some made in Mexico), and > three by Mepco/Electra. The three large 125uF 450V can capacitors are > Mallory, and reformed to full voltage with acceptable leakage current. Given > the multiple defective capacitors found, I will be replacing all bur the > three large can caps before attempting to power up again and troubleshoot > further. > I do wonder if anyone on list has personal experience with the 332B and 332D, > and just exactly what makes the 332D one decade more accurate according to > the spec? Although the ones checked so far are within tolerance, I am > considering the replacement of all carbon comp resistors with more stable > metal films. Perhaps this would be a bit overkill and not yield much in the > ratio of effort:performance though? > Regards,Chris > > > Sent from my SMRTphone > Original message From: Jerry Hancock > Date: 2/14/17 11:38 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Chris Farley , > Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: > [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B > Most likely the relay in the back left of the box is not opening because the > switch that controls it (the power/standby/operate) switch is fouled. If > that relays contacts were cleaner then the tripping voltage would be lower. > I had this happen and heard later it is a common problem. There is a long > shaft that could be misaligned from the front to the back where the switch > wafers are located. If that gets misaligned, the switch doesn’t open the > relay which keeps the outputs shorted. The don’t short to a very low > resistance when they are dirty. With the unit turned off, measure and record > the resistance across the output high and low terminals. Use ohms law to > determine if this is your problem. The current trips at 50mA. If it is > tripping at 3v, then your resistance would be about 60 ohms. Once you get it > working, go back and clean that relay. > > The other common problem is having the vernier current limit set too low. In > that case, just turn the current limit dial all the way clockwise. Note > that there is also a voltage trip variable control on the voltage trip knob. > > > >> On Feb 14, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Chris Farley via volt-nuts >> wro
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
I have a D model but I would thin Dr. Frank would be able to address the difference D to B. I recently went thru a Dial a Source DAS-46 finding so many (most) of the carbon comp resistors had changed value +30%. But, and this is the important ‘But’, the typical 1% metal film resistors don’t have good tempco. So I wonder if replacing these 40yr old resistors was a good idea. Yes, they have drifted higher, but since they all drifted up by the same percentage, the circuit still worked. I bought most of the high value from Mouser using Vishay as the default unless I couldn’t get them for some reason. I am running a test of the stability over 36,750 seconds (has to do with 10K samples with the 3457A in NPLC 100 taking about 3.675 seconds per) to see if the stability is better now vs with the carbon comp. Not that I would swap them back in, just curious. > On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:01 PM, kc9ieq via volt-nuts wrote: > > Thanks John and Jerry for the replies. > After a visual inspection and noting one questionable looking capacitor, > (breached seal), I've systematically gone through and checked every single > electrolytic capacitor in the unit for C and ESR. No fewer than NINE have > been identified as definitely defective- A few of which have effectively > failed open. Surprisingly, most of these are Sprague 30D and TVA series. > There are also a dozen or so by Amperex/Phillips (some made in Mexico), and > three by Mepco/Electra. The three large 125uF 450V can capacitors are > Mallory, and reformed to full voltage with acceptable leakage current. Given > the multiple defective capacitors found, I will be replacing all bur the > three large can caps before attempting to power up again and troubleshoot > further. > I do wonder if anyone on list has personal experience with the 332B and 332D, > and just exactly what makes the 332D one decade more accurate according to > the spec? Although the ones checked so far are within tolerance, I am > considering the replacement of all carbon comp resistors with more stable > metal films. Perhaps this would be a bit overkill and not yield much in the > ratio of effort:performance though? > Regards,Chris > > > Sent from my SMRTphone > Original message From: Jerry Hancock > Date: 2/14/17 11:38 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Chris Farley , > Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: > [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B > Most likely the relay in the back left of the box is not opening because the > switch that controls it (the power/standby/operate) switch is fouled. If > that relays contacts were cleaner then the tripping voltage would be lower. > I had this happen and heard later it is a common problem. There is a long > shaft that could be misaligned from the front to the back where the switch > wafers are located. If that gets misaligned, the switch doesn’t open the > relay which keeps the outputs shorted. The don’t short to a very low > resistance when they are dirty. With the unit turned off, measure and record > the resistance across the output high and low terminals. Use ohms law to > determine if this is your problem. The current trips at 50mA. If it is > tripping at 3v, then your resistance would be about 60 ohms. Once you get it > working, go back and clean that relay. > > The other common problem is having the vernier current limit set too low. In > that case, just turn the current limit dial all the way clockwise. Note > that there is also a voltage trip variable control on the voltage trip knob. > > > >> On Feb 14, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Chris Farley via volt-nuts >> wrote: >> >> Geetings all, >> >> New to the list and to a sickly Fluke 332B which kicks out the over current >> protection at a mere 3 or so Volts output. >> This is just one of my current projects, but first a question before wasting >> bandwidth.. I see the list archive page, but is there a secondary, or >> SEARCHABLE archive of this list anywhere to see what has already been said >> in the past about this unit? >> >> Regards, >> Chris >> ___ >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Thanks John and Jerry for the replies. After a visual inspection and noting one questionable looking capacitor, (breached seal), I've systematically gone through and checked every single electrolytic capacitor in the unit for C and ESR. No fewer than NINE have been identified as definitely defective- A few of which have effectively failed open. Surprisingly, most of these are Sprague 30D and TVA series. There are also a dozen or so by Amperex/Phillips (some made in Mexico), and three by Mepco/Electra. The three large 125uF 450V can capacitors are Mallory, and reformed to full voltage with acceptable leakage current. Given the multiple defective capacitors found, I will be replacing all bur the three large can caps before attempting to power up again and troubleshoot further. I do wonder if anyone on list has personal experience with the 332B and 332D, and just exactly what makes the 332D one decade more accurate according to the spec? Although the ones checked so far are within tolerance, I am considering the replacement of all carbon comp resistors with more stable metal films. Perhaps this would be a bit overkill and not yield much in the ratio of effort:performance though? Regards,Chris Sent from my SMRTphone Original message From: Jerry Hancock Date: 2/14/17 11:38 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Chris Farley , Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B Most likely the relay in the back left of the box is not opening because the switch that controls it (the power/standby/operate) switch is fouled. If that relays contacts were cleaner then the tripping voltage would be lower. I had this happen and heard later it is a common problem. There is a long shaft that could be misaligned from the front to the back where the switch wafers are located. If that gets misaligned, the switch doesn’t open the relay which keeps the outputs shorted. The don’t short to a very low resistance when they are dirty. With the unit turned off, measure and record the resistance across the output high and low terminals. Use ohms law to determine if this is your problem. The current trips at 50mA. If it is tripping at 3v, then your resistance would be about 60 ohms. Once you get it working, go back and clean that relay. The other common problem is having the vernier current limit set too low. In that case, just turn the current limit dial all the way clockwise. Note that there is also a voltage trip variable control on the voltage trip knob. > On Feb 14, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Chris Farley via volt-nuts > wrote: > > Geetings all, > > New to the list and to a sickly Fluke 332B which kicks out the over current > protection at a mere 3 or so Volts output. > This is just one of my current projects, but first a question before wasting > bandwidth.. I see the list archive page, but is there a secondary, or > SEARCHABLE archive of this list anywhere to see what has already been said in > the past about this unit? > > Regards, > Chris > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Most likely the relay in the back left of the box is not opening because the switch that controls it (the power/standby/operate) switch is fouled. If that relays contacts were cleaner then the tripping voltage would be lower. I had this happen and heard later it is a common problem. There is a long shaft that could be misaligned from the front to the back where the switch wafers are located. If that gets misaligned, the switch doesn’t open the relay which keeps the outputs shorted. The don’t short to a very low resistance when they are dirty. With the unit turned off, measure and record the resistance across the output high and low terminals. Use ohms law to determine if this is your problem. The current trips at 50mA. If it is tripping at 3v, then your resistance would be about 60 ohms. Once you get it working, go back and clean that relay. The other common problem is having the vernier current limit set too low. In that case, just turn the current limit dial all the way clockwise. Note that there is also a voltage trip variable control on the voltage trip knob. > On Feb 14, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Chris Farley via volt-nuts > wrote: > > Geetings all, > > New to the list and to a sickly Fluke 332B which kicks out the over current > protection at a mere 3 or so Volts output. > This is just one of my current projects, but first a question before wasting > bandwidth.. I see the list archive page, but is there a secondary, or > SEARCHABLE archive of this list anywhere to see what has already been said in > the past about this unit? > > Regards, > Chris > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
There is a searchable archive at https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts but the easiest way to search is to just use google and append "site:febo.com" to the search request. John On 2/14/2017 11:59 AM, Chris Farley via volt-nuts wrote: Geetings all, New to the list and to a sickly Fluke 332B which kicks out the over current protection at a mere 3 or so Volts output. This is just one of my current projects, but first a question before wasting bandwidth.. I see the list archive page, but is there a secondary, or SEARCHABLE archive of this list anywhere to see what has already been said in the past about this unit? Regards, Chris ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] Fluke 332B
Geetings all, New to the list and to a sickly Fluke 332B which kicks out the over current protection at a mere 3 or so Volts output. This is just one of my current projects, but first a question before wasting bandwidth.. I see the list archive page, but is there a secondary, or SEARCHABLE archive of this list anywhere to see what has already been said in the past about this unit? Regards, Chris ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
