RE: RESEND, ascii, Superluminal
Dear Horace, Thanks for the response. This is my initial foray into the area. I disagree about the polarizing beam splitter - it transmits, not absorbs. Losses and attenuation can be minimised. Yes signal will be subject to noise but this can be error corrected out. As long as some signal get through with recognisable humps and troughs then we can discern the bittage (to coin a term) of the signal. Remi. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 December 2004 09:00 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RESEND, ascii, Superluminal At 6:59 AM 12/17/4, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will upload this stuff to the university website if it is any good or leads somewhere, also once it is fixed and I can upload stuff again. http://www.corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk/home.htm or more directly http://www.corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk/Superluminal_Letter.pdf The problem with obtaining interference patterns at a distant location appears to me to be at least in part a problem of attenuation. When a member of an entangled pair of photons interacts with matter, especially in a potentially polarizing interaction, the photons lose entanglement. An entangled photon that goes through a polarizing filter, for example, loses any prior entanglements. The attenuation problem is thus two-fold. First, photons are just plain lost to absorbtion. Secondly, of the small percentage that arrives, many have lost entanglement and thus act randomly. For these reasons, it is necessary to do coincidence counting to establish the inerference pattern and this requires an alternative channel. If this alternative channel can communicate faster than light, then no other channel is needed. It appears that using intermediary photon-atom entanglement at Bob's (receiving) location does not circumvent this problem, and in fact complicates things because then even coincidence counting is no longer reliable. Regards, Horace Heffner
Christmas Hols
Sorry chaps and chapessess, Gonna have to unsubscribe because I just won't be in to read the list messages. When I get back there will be probably hundreds which will take our exchange server (snore!) about an hour to sort out with all the uni. traffic. Bye bye, Remi.
RE: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective.
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? -- John Fields
OFF TOPIC Funny quote
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. - Henry J. Tillman
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. Ed -- John Fields
Re: magnetic vector potential
Horace Heffner scolds, As I recall there were recently a number of vortexians who doubted that the vector potential can be put to any practical use. If you are talking about what I wrote then you completely overlooked the significance. No, I wasn't referring to any particular posting... but, then again, that doesn't mean that I didn't also overlook something quite significant. It seems that a lot of potentially significant information gets overlooked, if only because there is too much of both the good and bad variety for any one person to deal with and digest at any given moment. Speaking of which, I stumbled across this little gem from Robert Stirniman, posted about 6 years ago: Quoting from Li and Torr's second paper: The interaction energy of the internal magnetic field with the magnetic moment of the lattice ions drives the lattice ions and superconducting condensate wave function to move together vortically within the range of the coherent length and results in an induced precession of the angular momentum of the lattice ions. And quoting from their third paper: Recently we demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the lattice ions, which must execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity. And, It is shown that the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time-dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field. The full post is: http://www.padrak.com/agn/WALLACE.html The interesting thing is the bit about the lattice ions. And assuming that some of the strange effect (in the previous thread ) is actually due to the magnetic vector potential and not solely to stray flux as Keith suggests, then it raises some antigravity issues: Wouldn't it be nice to have a nice little toroid of BISCO or some other HTSC which one could surround with six pairs of these coils to chill and pulse, in order to generate (hopefully) a robust MVP but without any recirculating current in the HTSC. Put the whole contraption on a scale, and weigh. Jones Oh. Be sure to place the whole experiment in a strong metal cage so that it doesn't fly through the roof of your garage... ;-) BTW, why wouldn't the HTSC also recirculate the MVP with no diminution over time, just like the EMF? That would be how one could theoretically supass the 2-3% weight loss previously seen by Li and Podkletnov. Perhaps their problem of not getting more AG effect was that SC current actually overrides and cancels some of the MVP ? Remember that genius who claimed to have invented an antigraivty device, but oops, he can't demonstrate it to the public because he lost it when it went sailing through the ceiling of his lab into space ? I hope that wan't Wallace, was it?
Re: magnetic vector potential
Gentlemen, I think it ws back in about 2000 or so that I came across the website of the ATG group that had developed the little nested toroid experiment. Don't recall the name of the fellow I corresponded with briefly, but I spent maybe 3 weeks trying to replicate their set-up and claims. It was with some extreme initial excitement that I was able to get some small paper punch discs and little masses of both plastic and metal to pop up into the air! I had used the same toroid diameters, roughly the same power input, etc. My suspicion began when I found that BOTH the large and small toroid holes would eject little masses equally. Hm. I then set the unit on its side, and suspended tiny bits of stuff by thread right in the aperture of either end, but not touching the windings. At very close spacing, I could get a tiny quick nudge, but not much more. Then, I painted some epoxy in a thin coating on the toroids, to pot the windings firmly in place. The effect disappeared entirely. What seems to have been happening was the applied current impulse was mechanically shocking the windings, and this acoustic energy was being transferred to objects laying on the windings, and/or the air in the hole! I wrote to the fellow at the ATG address, and we banterd it about for a while, but I had pretty well convinced myself at that point. I noticed that it wasnt long after that the info they had on their site was pulled down. I wonder if it was the same folks who re-posted it more recently, and or who got JLN interested. To any who try this out, I would suggest you try some potting of the windings to reduce the ampere force mechanical impulse. Then compare results... Best NR --- Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Horace Heffner scolds, As I recall there were recently a number of vortexians who doubted that the vector potential can be put to any practical use. If you are talking about what I wrote then you completely overlooked the significance. No, I wasn't referring to any particular posting... but, then again, that doesn't mean that I didn't also overlook something quite significant. It seems that a lot of potentially significant information gets overlooked, if only because there is too much of both the good and bad variety for any one person to deal with and digest at any given moment. Speaking of which, I stumbled across this little gem from Robert Stirniman, posted about 6 years ago: Quoting from Li and Torr's second paper: The interaction energy of the internal magnetic field with the magnetic moment of the lattice ions drives the lattice ions and superconducting condensate wave function to move together vortically within the range of the coherent length and results in an induced precession of the angular momentum of the lattice ions. And quoting from their third paper: Recently we demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the lattice ions, which must execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity. And, It is shown that the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time-dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field. __ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
RE: magnetic vector potential
Hey Nick. I'm still of the opinion that leakage flux is the causative agent here, at least for the conductive material being moved by the coils. I can see your explaination would make sense for the lesser magnitude effect seen with the non-conductors, although I would expect some effect due to the electric fields generated by the time changing flux. When you say the effect dissapeared when you potted the coils, do you mean all effects or just the dielectric effect? Thanks for the experiment report, BTW. K. -Original Message- From: Nick Reiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: magnetic vector potential Gentlemen, I think it ws back in about 2000 or so that I came across the website of the ATG group that had developed the little nested toroid experiment. Don't recall the name of the fellow I corresponded with briefly, but I spent maybe 3 weeks trying to replicate their set-up and claims. It was with some extreme initial excitement that I was able to get some small paper punch discs and little masses of both plastic and metal to pop up into the air! I had used the same toroid diameters, roughly the same power input, etc. My suspicion began when I found that BOTH the large and small toroid holes would eject little masses equally. Hm. I then set the unit on its side, and suspended tiny bits of stuff by thread right in the aperture of either end, but not touching the windings. At very close spacing, I could get a tiny quick nudge, but not much more. Then, I painted some epoxy in a thin coating on the toroids, to pot the windings firmly in place. The effect disappeared entirely. What seems to have been happening was the applied current impulse was mechanically shocking the windings, and this acoustic energy was being transferred to objects laying on the windings, and/or the air in the hole! I wrote to the fellow at the ATG address, and we banterd it about for a while, but I had pretty well convinced myself at that point. I noticed that it wasnt long after that the info they had on their site was pulled down. I wonder if it was the same folks who re-posted it more recently, and or who got JLN interested. To any who try this out, I would suggest you try some potting of the windings to reduce the ampere force mechanical impulse. Then compare results... Best NR --- Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Horace Heffner scolds, As I recall there were recently a number of vortexians who doubted that the vector potential can be put to any practical use. If you are talking about what I wrote then you completely overlooked the significance. No, I wasn't referring to any particular posting... but, then again, that doesn't mean that I didn't also overlook something quite significant. It seems that a lot of potentially significant information gets overlooked, if only because there is too much of both the good and bad variety for any one person to deal with and digest at any given moment. Speaking of which, I stumbled across this little gem from Robert Stirniman, posted about 6 years ago: Quoting from Li and Torr's second paper: The interaction energy of the internal magnetic field with the magnetic moment of the lattice ions drives the lattice ions and superconducting condensate wave function to move together vortically within the range of the coherent length and results in an induced precession of the angular momentum of the lattice ions. And quoting from their third paper: Recently we demonstrated theoretically that the carriers of quantized angular momentum are not the Cooper pairs but the lattice ions, which must execute coherent localized motion consistent with the phenomenon of superconductivity. And, It is shown that the coherent alignment of lattice ion spins will generate a detectable gravitomagnetic field, and in the presence of a time-dependent applied magnetic vector potential field, a detectable gravitoelectric field. __ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:42:02 -0700, you wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. --- I agree. It seems we've decided to become denizens of the swamp, but I was disagreeing with Terry about the deployment being premature, in that even if it is ineffective now, as its efficacy improves and is proven through testing, it will provide another more or less real deterrent to military adventures with the US as a target. However, with one in four of us Earthlings being Chinese, I wonder whether it'll matter much if/when push comes to shove... -- John Fields
RE: magnetic vector potential
Keith, After I potted the unit, as I recall, I lost the effect on all materials. As metals go, I had tried little niblets, BBs and rods of copper, aluminum, and bismuth. Now I DID NOT try a long rod suspended horizontally through the holes of a horizontal facing toroid pair, howevah. I agree that leakage flux could be a major artifact. It makes sense. I tried to get a pair of internally polarized NdFeB ring magnets made once. (It was an attempt to produce a permanent magnet version of said A-Field or vector potential toroids) Turned out wicked good, but there were still irregular outbreaks of maybe 300 to 500 gauss from the ring surface here and there, due to uneven-ness of the magnetizer windings. So yeah, with hand wound toroids there is potential for leakage. I would guess that if one could up the permeability of the torus material, leakage would diminish - but do they make such a ferrite? Fast yet furious; with low hysteresis, yet the permeability of moo metal? Moo. nr --- Keith Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Nick. I'm still of the opinion that leakage flux is the causative agent here, at least for the conductive material being moved by the coils. I can see your explaination would make sense for the lesser magnitude effect seen with the non-conductors, although I would expect some effect due to the electric fields generated by the time changing flux. When you say the effect dissapeared when you potted the coils, do you mean all effects or just the dielectric effect? Thanks for the experiment report, BTW. K. -Original Message- From: Nick Reiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: magnetic vector potential Gentlemen, I think it ws back in about 2000 or so that I came across the website of the ATG group that had __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:42:02 -0700, you wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. --- I agree. It seems we've decided to become denizens of the swamp, but I was disagreeing with Terry about the deployment being premature, in that even if it is ineffective now, as its efficacy improves and is proven through testing, it will provide another more or less real deterrent to military adventures with the US as a target. However, with one in four of us Earthlings being Chinese, I wonder whether it'll matter much if/when push comes to shove... I agree, it will not matter much. The world has changed so that using nuclear weapons, except by terrorists, no longer makes sense. Cooperations do not care who wins, just so they make money. In the future, most decisions will be made on this basis. Only when the natives become restless will this approach briefly change. In the future, governments by the people in the US will be only a dream of the young because whomever has the most money will be able to use the tools of advertising to get the voters to support whatever they want. Because the Chinese, in collaboration with the major cooperations, will eventually have the money and will have purchased the mass media, the average person in the US will do what the owners want, buy what they want, and support policies they want. Military force will no longer be needed, at least in the First World. The Third World will be encouraged to fight each other so that the manufactures of weapons will have a buyer. Its amazing how fast a cynical nature has gone from being considered a defect of old age to being just a simple extrapolation of common-place observation. Ed -- John Fields
RE: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Hey Ed + John. Ed writes: Yes, because China is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. Exactly; but doesn't this solve the problem? Red seems not to understand that when our government borrows money to pay for things rather than tax, what it is doing is selling the country to foreign investors. In this case, it's the Chinese who are buying our T-Bills. As you say, this process is accellerating. When the crunch you predict occurs, China will own truly substantial portions of America, so bombing us would make about as much sense as a landlord bombing his apartment complex to force the tenants to pay their back rent. I'm not sure why W. is so anxious to sell off America, perhaps he sees it as a bad investment? Maybe he knows something we don't. K.
Gravimagnetics, dark energy, dark matter
If gravity, gravitons, had a speed c_g less than the speed of light c, and gravity began with the big bang, then objects exceeding c_g at the time of the big bang could outrun gravity itself. It seems reasonable that c_g = c. Even if in all cases c_g = c, objects near the speed of c or even just distant from the center of the universe, i.e. the origin of the big bang, would have a diminished gravitational attraction to the center of mass of the universe because of retardation. Retardation is the delay of effect due to transit time, in this case the transit time of gravitons. For distant objects, created at the time of the big bang, the gravitons from much of the universe are in transit, while for objects nearer the center of the universe a higher proportion of gravitons have completed their force transfer. Then net result is an apparent force accelerating objects that are further away from the center of the universe. This is not a true force, but rather an effect producing a force less than the expected gravitational force. The diminuation is proportional to the distance between bodies. This means a quantum treatment of gravity provides a possiblity other than either an ever expanding universe or an ultimately collapsing universe. That possibility is that matter sufficiently far away will not return to a big crunch, while other matter closer to the origin of the big bang may crunch. Gravimagnetics also provides a similar and at least partial explanation for dark matter. The gravimagnetic force, a 1/r^4 force, is powerful for objects close together. Ordinary orbital mechanics applied to close objects with similar spin axes will overestimate the mass involved, as compared to distant interactions of the same bodies. These are two sides of the same coin, depending on which mass information is obtained and relied upon first. The result is either apparent dark energy or dark matter, depending on the initial basis for determining the mass. Regards, Horace Heffner
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Ed Storms wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. To regard what is happening as a cold war is a misnomer; it is commerce, the action of a market economy, now being played out on a global scale with an intensity and speed without precedent in history. The US abandonment of manufacturing expertise began after WW2 with Deming's visit to Japan and the introduction of statistical quality control. The knowledge of how to do low cost, high quality mechanized production is no longer the property of any country; it can be done anywhere there is the will to do it. Territorial wars over natural resources are a bit obsolete, but we may see wars over water in this century. The idea of the US nuking China's commercial production is a bit absurd. Anyone with a new awareness of China should get a copy of 1421 The Year China Discovered America and also dig into the 1421 website, with Google as your guide. Also get a copy of The Genius of China to get a perspective on how far China's technology was in advance of Europe's in early times. In the 1400s China dominated its world as the US does now, and set out to bring the whole world into its tribute system. They launched an immense fleet of exploration which mapped the world with accurate longitude -- before the Harrison chronometers -- including the Americas and Antartica. When the fleets came home they found the emperor deposed and the mandarin bureaucracy turned inward, erasing a great achievement and setting the stage for China's decline as a world power. China and India are awakening to industrial status and the relative dominance of the US and Europe will wane as these nations adapt our own discoveries. Toynbee decades ago documented the challenge and response of governements to a changing world. The war in Iraq is but one episode; it remains to be seen how all this plays out. Flailing about and demonizing Bush, Islam, or THEM of any color or persuasion will not help; it only blinds the protester. Remember that all this ebb and flow of economic fortune has played out in the US since our founding and development as the largest free market economy in the world. It is now gone global, and there is no going back; the US has not been self sufficient sine the '30s. One of the basic charactersitics of humans is to divide the world into US and THEM on any pretext. Meanwhile remember the Chinese curse May you live in interesting times. Mike Carrell Ed -- John Fields
Re: NK could test TD-2 anytime
Keith wrote I'm not sure why W. is so anxious to sell.. Maybe he knows something we dont. I have pondered that question since year 2001. Perhaps we have 2 Republican parties.. Richard Blank Bkgrd.gif
On the Chinese
Vortexians, I've been reading various posts on China, and have decided to make a few comments. I was shopping for a set of pump pliers. I purchased a Chinese made set but they slipped when a grasped a nut. I subsequently returned them and purchased an American made set. I picked up a Chinese made shower head, then I saw an American made one at a cheaper price, you know which one I purchased. The Fair Tax people say that implementing their system will make us more competitive. so much for the mythos of the invincible Chinese. BTW, have any of you people heard that W's uncle owns a golf course in China? That would give new meaning to inside connections, eh? Keith posted Hey Ed + John. Ed writes: Yes, because China is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. it's the Chinese who are buying our T-Bills. As you say, this process is accellerating. When the crunch you predict occurs, China will own truly substantial portions of America, so bombing us would make about as much sense as a landlord bombing his apartment complex to force the tenants to pay their back rent. I'm not My comment: Good point Keith. Perhaps there is a method to the Globalist's madness. Post: China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. My comment: I don't know any other way to get a cutting edge system working other than to build a model and test it. --- I agree. It seems we've decided to become denizens of the swamp, but I was disagreeing with Terry about the deployment being premature, My comment: Is that the Fever Swamp, where all the conspiracy theorists live, that Hugh Hewitt is always talking about? However, with one in four of us Earthlings being Chinese, I wonder whether it'll matter much if/when push comes to shove... My Comment: I think that the Chinese are good people, their government, OTOH is another matter, remember Tibet!
China 1421
Mike Carrell writes, Anyone with a new awareness of China should get a copy of 1421 The Year China Discovered America and also dig into the 1421 website, There is local (SF Bay area) connection to this story : http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/7792971.htm?1c Supposedly one of the pre-Colombian Chinese Junks was found way up river from the San Francisco, but I doubt that this particular piece of evidence will pan out. It is way too far up the river for an ocean-going vessel to navigate, but who knows. According to my sailing friends, the winds and currents would make it very easy to sail to California in junk-type boats from China but extremely difficult to return. They would have to return by Hawaii, across the widest part of the Pacific - but not impossible by any means. Coincidentally the junk was found near gold country which makes one think it arrived in the gold rush era, but the boat appears much older. It is said that even before the first Chinese came over to work the mines and build the railway, that this area was already going by the name of gold mountain in China, so maybe they did beat the 49ers by 400 years and already knew where the gold was. If this relic does turn out to be one of those junks, there will be a lot of experts eating crow. But, then again, we are living in interesting times, curse or no, and many experts in other fields will be dining thusly. Funny how with a slightly different socio-political backdrop, the world as we know it could be completely different.
