[Vo]:TEMPORARY BAN ON OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSIONS
On Wed, 20 May 2009, Rick Monteverde wrote: > I respectfully request that everyone think before posting and stop > rising to troll bait Let's just do the usual: move all the off-topic discussions to vortexB-L. It's time for a temporary ban on all off-topic discussions, most specifically a ban on anything involving politics or religion. Those who wish to discuss such things can do so: just use vortexB-L instead. I've susbscribed the vortex community to vortexB. If you DON'T want to receive any off-topic messages from vortexB, then send a blank message to vortexb-l-requ...@eskimo.com, and put the word Unsubscribe in the subject line. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:another better battery.
Michel Jullian wrote: 2009/5/20, mix...@bigpond.com : In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Tue, 19 May 2009 15:31:41 +0200: Hi, Still, the figure is amazing. A 52 kWh battery would only weigh 52000/2600= 20 kg, ~10 times less than Eestor's EESU of the same capacity is supposed to weigh :) I've been researching the lead cobalt alkaline battery, which has an energy density of 109 watt hours per kilogram. According to the patentee, this is similar to the lithium ion or metal hydride batteries. The energy density that you're talking about is 20 times that. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:OT: Manhunt in progress in Madison
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, OrionWorks wrote: > I hope I was able to answer Kyle's concerns. Sounds like > Buffalo, NY, > has a few issues of it's own as well! ;-) I am very glad to hear that all is well with you and yours. It is a terror beyond imagining when one feels that those he loves are in danger. I have been there, and don't care to go there again. Buffalo is a hell of a mess. There's great stuff here...there's bad stuff here. It is something else, believe me. You can go downtown, see the ghettos, where people have no hope, simply feed off the system that created them. You can see the cops who will speed past a shooting scene, so as to make quota for the month by pulling over someone who did 50 in a 45. Everyone has their hands out, wanting something. Money for heat. Money for food. Money for XYZ. Did you know the liquor stores are pressured into accepting food stamps? This is the great society taken to its extreme. We've got republicans, we've got democrats. Both do the same things, just in different ways. Stupidity knows no party line. I've voted for reps, I've voted for dems. I won't vote for anyone here, because I don't like thugs. Heck with it. I've got better things to do. Such as: just got the DVD box set of Carl Sagan's COSMOS. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed it. Grand fun to watch, excellent to fall asleep to. Oh yeah, did anyone catch the latest in the MYLOW thing? Fishing wire and a hidden motor does some great stuff, eh? If anyone don't know what I'm saying, go to the PESWiki page on Mylow, and look under May 19 -- BUSTED. Sad, but I expected this. --Kyle
[Vo]:Robert Duncan lecture info returns to U. Missouri web site
The title, abstract, video and slides magically reappeared. They were available after all! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Grok send me your pict
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, fznidar...@aol.com mounted the barricade and roared out: > Send me your picture, Grok, and I'll put you in the middle where the > Earth is. > > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/script.html > > Frank Z The secret police/military and their vigilante friends have thousands of pix of me - -- no doubt a number of them of me nekked in my apartment scratching my balls. Go ask them. Darkness at Noon, indeed. Which continent? - --grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUewEACgkQXo3EtEYbt3FzxwCggEYnQCCqPNGhu9/SXZlFhWmQ MfEAoJSP9PRP8Ap7JzqDCzEOGlIX3xk5 =4iPM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[Vo]:Grok send me your pict
Send me your picture, Grok, and I'll put you in the middle where the Earth is. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/script.html Frank Z
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Mauro Lacy mounted the barricade and roared out: > As I said before, the concept of "class struggle", and the use that is made > of it, > does not promote an harmonious way to resolve conflicts. History also > supports > this, and I think that it is one of the main reasons Marxism is discredited > today. There is no such thing as reconciling irreconcilable differences. Fella. Best re-check the facts in your history boox. What I have said, stands. And will stand. The Test of Time. > Look, the United States are collapsing, politically and economically. Much > in the > same way as the URSS collapsed in the eighties/nineties. But a difference > with the > URSS seems to be that, instead to acknowledge it and make an > orderly(relatively > speaking) collapse, they are in denial about it, and so headed for a > disorderly > collapse, sooner or later. This part is true enuff. And just look at all the denial on just vortex-l, for that matter. Denial ain't just not a river in Egypt: it's downright palpable and visceral. > This is a very dangerous state of affairs, both for the USA and for the rest > of the > world. If you, instead of promoting the consideration of a reality check, and > the > establishment of an orderly collapse, start promoting Marxist ideas about > class > struggle and idiocies like that, you're only adding to the general > confussion, and > making matters worst, in the end. You are getting class-struggle whether you want it or not, brother. That's the reality of the situation, which people like you systematically misread -- with a little help from the mass-[propaganda]-media. I'm just trying to HELP youse all here, believe it or not. Or not. > > > I don't have any investments; don't have any dividends, nor employees, an > > > enterprise, etc. I'm not a capitalist. You're simply wrong about me, grok. > > > Besides, about other things. > > > > I was being facetious. > > Well, you shouldn't. While you were playing your joker card, serious and > important > things were said to you. And they deserve to be considered seriously. Oh please. You just didn't get it. And now we're wasting more verbiage over that. Vorticians will not be amused. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUYMwACgkQXo3EtEYbt3FABACeIQhIgL0r4SSl3UaTsWLU46oA /O4AnjW9Ce0a4DnNUJgeAlp1QhGxDAgE =NJOs -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:OT: Manhunt in progress in Madison
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, OrionWorks mounted the barricade and roared out: > > Obviously the style of the MPD is the former. > > Just so everyone knows, we survived the night. > > The suspect, however, didn't. > > http://www.channel3000.com/news/19508811/detail.html > > It would appear that the suspect decided to take matters into his own hands. > > In regards to my brief conversation with the police officer, yes, I > would agree with Steve Krivit's assessment of managerial styles. The > officer was also quite young. I'm sure he was simply following orders > as he understood it to the letter. > > I hope I was able to answer Kyle's concerns. Sounds like Buffalo, NY, > has a few issues of it's own as well! ;-) > > Regards > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks The guy killed his ex-wife. The pigs used this as a further excuse to ramp up the ongoing U.S.-wide hysteria campaign. Next it will be worker/terrorists on a picketline... Got it? Too many of you have been sucked into this too far. Some perspective, please. This sad story had this guy blowing his brains out probably where he and his ex-ex- used to make out when they were highskool sweethearts. THE END. Go back to spinning magnets or torturing elektrodes or sumthin'. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUWggACgkQXo3EtEYbt3E90ACfUkaQCxJkECH6eDcS4HgEtPhn ExwAoJ4CVQmUcWUK/1Qd9EduaLnbKxo4 =D6yh -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Edmund Storms mounted the barricade and roared out: >> And please ban Croc or Groc or whoever he is: He is largely >> responsible for leading the boys astray. > > I agree, Grok contributes very little. I regret stirring up his rants > when I started this thread. On the other hand, I think some issues are > so important that an occasional discussion of them is important, > especially when they have an influence on the kind of science that is > allowed to be studied and on our personal fate. For example, the > economic collapse is providing a temporary bust to research, thanks to > the Obama stimulus. If this support can be sustained, we might find > ways to make cheaper energy with less environmental impact. > Unfortunately, duration of this support is not clear and many people who > are doing unique research will not have access to this money. In > addition, the economic and social changes are taking place so rapidly, > it is worth being as fully aware of these changes as possible in order to > make wise personal decisions. Most people who contribute to the > discussions on this list add to this understanding, which is very > valuable. I add to the discussion, however modestly. So it's a damned lie to say that I don't. However, the terminally delusional politix of the U.S. is not only naturally on display here with seemingly every second post (whether I'm part of that or not) -- but it is also simply *assumed*, in the usual hegemonic way of Empire. And then you people turn right around and rail against the assumptions of bourgeois science that you're all quacks and grifters... Like I said earlier: the irony of it all. Socialism AIN'T dead -- no matter how many billions 'your' masters spend, or millions they murder, forcing that false conclusion on us -- and it certainly AIN'T what certain vested interests here try to make it out to be: people who are ALWAYS quick to demand censorship, let me point out... Beware that. If youse all want to be the next lot of Nazi scientists -- be my guests. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUV8QACgkQXo3EtEYbt3ELtgCeNbpB+KIFKsyYwikcQ7If2v0z kyUAmwfUuyi0lj8T6voUtIe/juKjqhFV =CYQV -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[Vo]:China vers US
I dreamed of having a Chinese wife.
RE: [Vo]:China vs US -- BILL BEATY & ALL FORUM MEMBERS PLEASE READ
Rhong - Thanks for posting that. I have blocked the troll directly via email filter and yet I constantly wade through the debris left behind when otherwise responsible forum members attempt to "answer" or "correct" the troll's nonsense posts. Please note that this forum is archived online, and this garbage substantially dilutes the otherwise useful, perhaps even important body of postings which Vortex represents. I respectfully request that everyone think before posting and stop rising to troll bait, and again I also join in the request for Bill B. to remove the troll's account for persistent violations to the letter and spirit of the forum rules. Thanks, Rick > -Original Message- > From: Rhong Dhong [mailto:rongdon...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:03 AM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]:China vs US > Why does the moderator allow off-topic junk like the above? A > little bit once in a while doesn't hurt, but this list is > supposed to be about science, especially juicy fringe > science. Unfortunately, it is turning into a high school civics class. > > And please ban Croc or Groc or whoever he is: He is largely > responsible for leading the boys astray.
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
On May 20, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Rhong Dhong wrote: the concept of "class struggle"...Marxism is discredited today... capitalism was not on a one-way path to destruction, for which Stalin sentenced him to SiberiaAmerican constitution by men schooled in government, especially the classics...Our founding fathers well understood human evil... Why does the moderator allow off-topic junk like the above? A little bit once in a while doesn't hurt, but this list is supposed to be about science, especially juicy fringe science. Unfortunately, it is turning into a high school civics class. And please ban Croc or Groc or whoever he is: He is largely responsible for leading the boys astray. I agree, Grok contributes very little. I regret stirring up his rants when I started this thread. On the other hand, I think some issues are so important that an occasional discussion of them is important, especially when they have an influence on the kind of science that is allowed to be studied and on our personal fate. For example, the economic collapse is providing a temporary bust to research, thanks to the Obama stimulus. If this support can be sustained, we might find ways to make cheaper energy with less environmental impact. Unfortunately, duration of this support is not clear and many people who are doing unique research will not have access to this money. In addition, the economic and social changes are taking place so rapidly, it is worth being as fully aware of these changes as possible in order to make wise personal decisions. Most people who contribute to the discussions on this list add to this understanding, which is very valuable. Ed
Re: [Vo]:another better battery.
2009/5/20, mix...@bigpond.com : > In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Tue, 19 May 2009 15:31:41 +0200: > Hi, > [snip] >>The Nature Materials abstract is here (full text is subscription only): >> >>http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nmat2460.html >> >><> >> >>The Li-S battery voltage being 2.0V, this would amount to 1320*2.0 = >>2640 mWh/g = 2640 Wh/kg, which is HUGE, the current best specific >>energy density for rechargeable batteries being Li polymer with 200 >>Wh/kg according to: >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery#Table_of_rechargeable_battery_technologies >> >>So this would be a most impressive 13x improvement, I wonder why Nazar >>claims only 3x in her comment below.? >> >>Michel > > Note the "up to", which implies that they are getting variable results, of > which > this was the best. Furthermore, I think the number of charge cycles may as > yet > be rather limited, as was previously intimated. > IOW there is still some work to do before this becomes a commercially > feasible > product. Still, the figure is amazing. A 52 kWh battery would only weigh 52000/2600= 20 kg, ~10 times less than Eestor's EESU of the same capacity is supposed to weigh :) Michel
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
the concept of "class struggle"...Marxism is discredited today... capitalism was not on a one-way path to destruction, for which Stalin sentenced him to SiberiaAmerican constitution by men schooled in government, especially the classics...Our founding fathers well understood human evil... Why does the moderator allow off-topic junk like the above? A little bit once in a while doesn't hurt, but this list is supposed to be about science, especially juicy fringe science. Unfortunately, it is turning into a high school civics class. And please ban Croc or Groc or whoever he is: He is largely responsible for leading the boys astray.
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
Taylor J. Smith wrote: > Mauro Lacy wrote: > > > >> As I said before, the concept of "class struggle", and the use that is >> made of it, does not promote an harmonious way to resolve conflicts. >> History also supports this, and I think that it is one of the main >> reasons Marxism is discredited today. >> > > Hi All, > > The main reason that Marxism is discredited is > laid out in "Darkness at Noon". Certainly it was > not Kondratieff's discovery that capitalism was > not on a one-way path to destruction, for which > Stalin sentenced him to Siberia. Russian > thinking is no more objective than our own. > > While it is impossible to overestimate American > stupidity and cupidity, it is also a mistake > to ignore American genius. Some may argue that > it could never be repeated; but the creation of > our current American constitution by men schooled > in government, especially the classics, and > motivated by a desire for individual freedom, > is a marvel of history. > > Our founding fathers well understood human evil, > and created a system of horizontal and vertical > checks and balances so that the thieves could > blow the whistle on each other. Moreover, our > founding fathers highly valued personal freedom, > and were motivated by a burning opposition > (Masonic) to King and Pope. These libertarian > traditions are still alive and pose a formidable > challenge to the arrogance of the Middle Kingdom. > > Jack Smith > Hi Jack, I concord with you that the model of democracy and the constitution the US has established is a great achievement. Indeed, it forms the basis and the example for the constitutions of many other democratic countries. But the economical system generically known as capitalism it's not so well suited and thought of for considerations of common human prosperity and stability. Specially, things that I've mentioned before, as the exponential growth of the monetary base (due to compound interest) lead to a compulsion for growth that's not only anti natural, but damaging, as it promotes short term profit oriented goals, and forgets about the human, social and natural consequences of them; i.e. it's only profit related. It also leads to concentration of wealth, which means: relative general poverty. Finally, it leads to its own demise, as it is unsustainable in the medium/long term (when there are no more resources to appropriate easily). These problems are systemic, inherent to the actual economic system, and in that sense cannot be solved inside the same system which as developed them in the first place. All this is what we're seeing today, with the added bonus that now it is a global problem. A truly systemic global crisis. Unless we face this without any kind of self delusion, we wouldn't be able to solve it. In the best of cases, we'll be able to postpone the unavoidable. But not for much longer, as systemic effects don't "go away" when you are not paying attention. They persist, and indeed aggravate with time. As Charles Eisenstein puts it: "Unless there are realms of wealth I have not considered, and new depths of poverty, misery, and alienation to which we might plunge, the inevitable cannot be delayed much longer." We can also "reboot" the system, so to speak, and start it over again. That reboot means a big destruction of both, real wealth, and virtual one(i.e. money). That's the most likely scenario, and that's what we must try to avoid. The only good way to avoid it is to really change the system. I.e. to prepare and develop an ordered collapse of capitalism, and its replacement for a new economic system not based in exponential growth. Indeed, that's exactly what I expect from American genius, as you called it. That will be, in my opinion, a real proof of genius, intelligence, sense of reality, humanity, and courage.
[Vo]:China vs US
Mauro Lacy wrote: > As I said before, the concept of "class struggle", and the use that is > made of it, does not promote an harmonious way to resolve conflicts. > History also supports this, and I think that it is one of the main > reasons Marxism is discredited today. Hi All, The main reason that Marxism is discredited is laid out in "Darkness at Noon". Certainly it was not Kondratieff's discovery that capitalism was not on a one-way path to destruction, for which Stalin sentenced him to Siberia. Russian thinking is no more objective than our own. While it is impossible to overestimate American stupidity and cupidity, it is also a mistake to ignore American genius. Some may argue that it could never be repeated; but the creation of our current American constitution by men schooled in government, especially the classics, and motivated by a desire for individual freedom, is a marvel of history. Our founding fathers well understood human evil, and created a system of horizontal and vertical checks and balances so that the thieves could blow the whistle on each other. Moreover, our founding fathers highly valued personal freedom, and were motivated by a burning opposition (Masonic) to King and Pope. These libertarian traditions are still alive and pose a formidable challenge to the arrogance of the Middle Kingdom. Jack Smith
Re: [Vo]:OT: Manhunt in progress in Madison
>From Steven Krivit: > When I was in business school we studied the matter of a top-down management > which precludes localized thinking. That is, there are some corporations, > and governments that issue orders, directives, instructions to their staff > (drones?) and they do not empower or encourage them to think for themselves. > > There are a other organizations that recognize the fact that their people > are in the trenches - they can see the field of battle - or the customer's > situation - in front of their own eyes and the organization empowers their > staff to use their own judgement. > > Obviously the style of the MPD is the former. Just so everyone knows, we survived the night. The suspect, however, didn't. http://www.channel3000.com/news/19508811/detail.html It would appear that the suspect decided to take matters into his own hands. In regards to my brief conversation with the police officer, yes, I would agree with Steve Krivit's assessment of managerial styles. The officer was also quite young. I'm sure he was simply following orders as he understood it to the letter. I hope I was able to answer Kyle's concerns. Sounds like Buffalo, NY, has a few issues of it's own as well! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:China vs US
grok wrote: > > As the smoke cleared, Mauro Lacy > mounted the barricade and roared out: > > >> NOTHING is more ugly and violent than a capitalist which hasn't > been fed > >> bloodmeal and raw, dripping hamburger in the past few minutes. > > I'm not discussing here "who is more violent", but the possible > means and ways of > > stop being it. > > "Violence" is an abstract concept, worthy of only idealist filosofers > and ideologs... > but otherwise useless in practical, life terms -- at least as it > stands in its (usual > bourgeois) one-sided way. But in real, concrete terms, "violence" per > se is all part > of very real existence in this Universe. Animals and plants need to > live for instance > -- often off the corporeal masses of other living entities. Rocks fall > down and smash > other rocks for that matter... The thing we're talking about here of > course, is how > to arrange for humans to organize themselves in such a way that they > no longer are > (seemingly gratuitously) violent towards at least each other. And then > others still, > would have us extend that courtesy to at least the 'higher' (i.e. > vertibrate, or at > least mammalian) animal species, etc. > > And of course -- this is the VERY question Karl Marx himself so > famously addressed. As I said before, the concept of "class struggle", and the use that is made of it, does not promote an harmonious way to resolve conflicts. History also supports this, and I think that it is one of the main reasons Marxism is discredited today. Look, the United States are collapsing, politically and economically. Much in the same way as the URSS collapsed in the eighties/nineties. But a difference with the URSS seems to be that, instead to acknowledge it and make an orderly(relatively speaking) collapse, they are in denial about it, and so headed for a disorderly collapse, sooner or later. This is a very dangerous state of affairs, both for the USA and for the rest of the world. If you, instead of promoting the consideration of a reality check, and the establishment of an orderly collapse, start promoting Marxist ideas about class struggle and idiocies like that, you're only adding to the general confussion, and making matters worst, in the end. > How about that. It must be synchronicity. > ;> > > > > > > > I don't have any investments; don't have any dividends, nor > employees, an > > enterprise, etc. I'm not a capitalist. You're simply wrong about me, > grok. Besides, > > about other things. > > I was being facetious. Well, you shouldn't. While you were playing your joker card, serious and important things were said to you. And they deserve to be considered seriously. > Me so bad. > ;> > > > -- grok. > > > > >
