RE: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000

[Sunil Shah]

Ion propulsion?  Microwave radiation thrust?  No, it's relativity!

Quick quote: "Just as today no one realizes that you can use the effects of 
relativity
 to create propulsion. Namely, allowing the effects of relativity to 
absorb the extra momentum of a system of moving charged elements."


>From their kickstarter page:
"The Effects that the SDF Drive Exploits to Generate Thrust

Their 
still seems to be some misunderstanding on what effects that our device 
exploits to create thrust.Electric fields change their shape depending 
on the charge holding object that holds the charge and the relative 
velocity that the charges are observed from. This effect gives us the 
magnetic field, when these changes are observed outside of a conductor 
flowing an electric current. This change in an electric field is caused 
by the same force that gives us time dilation and apparent length 
contraction. This effect can’t be altered any amount of energy. So by 
using it to generate thrust you are in fact exploiting an infinite 
energy source.



We are able to exploit this effect by using the fact that different 
shaped charged objects have different electric field changes when they 
are in relative motion. An example is a charged sphere has one kind of 
an electric field change due to its relative motion. A square would have
 a totally different set of changes to its electric field. 




So if a charged square was close to and in relative motion to a 
charged sphere, the sphere would see a different set of forces on it 
than the square would see. The momentum of the system would change. The 
current view of physics today is that this is impossible. Just like the 
belief that heavier than air flying machines are impossible. No one 
realized that you could use air pressure to fly and change the momentum 
of the flying machine by using its environment to absorb the momentum. 
Just as today no one realizes that you can use the effects of relativity
 to create propulsion. Namely, allowing the effects of relativity to 
absorb the extra momentum of a system of moving charged elements."



From: s.u.n@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 23:18:24 +0100




Their Feature description for the drive says "Operates in a vacuum and at 1 ATM"
/S

[snip]
... I seem to recall a test was finally conducted on one of these ion 
propulsion devices within a vacuum chamber and the propulsion effect... 
disappeared. IOW, such a propulsion mechanism will not work out in the vacuum 
of space. Thus, it's not a space propulsion device. Does anybody remember the 
conclusions of that analysis? And are we absolutely sure the same physics is 
involved here? Regards,Steven Vincent Johnson

  

RE: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000

[Roarty, Francis X]

I have taken this position previously but not wrt relative motion, AFIK there 
isn't any relative motion in these type of drives but I agree that shape is a 
big part of it in that it unbalances the reflected RF trapped inside the 
container in a nonspatial way from the perspective of an observer outside the 
enclosure. I don't know if this is quantum effect of  nano geometry between 
dissimilar sized microwave mirrors or a field effect where standing waves 
become tapered. IMHO this is not the kind of relativity derived by relative or 
equivalent motion in a Pythagorean relationship with C - where time is slowed 
relative to stationary observer because the near C object is accelerating 
through the ether [rainstorm of virtual particles] or sitting at the bottom of 
a large gravity well where the ether is passing thru it at near C relative to 
the ether experienced by the stationary observer not in a deep well. This type 
of relativity [Shayer EM type] IMHO is instead due to a warp [not well] where 
the isotropy is broken in the opposite direction and time is accelerated. The 
Casimir cavity being the easy example -IMHO the longer vacuum waves/larger 
virtual particles are still present between the Casimir plates - they only look 
shorter/smaller because time dilation is occurring between the plates [a tiny 
hydrogen observer would be unaware that it has been shrunken and accelerated ie 
hydrino]. My point is that pooling these dilation areas such that radiation 
passes thru them repeatedly without passing thru the equal and opposite regions 
necessitated by their existence can unbalance the radiation pressure in seeming 
violation of equal and opposite reactions but in reality there is a 
transformation between time and space where something becomes older in exchange 
for spatial thrust.

That's my theory and am sticking to it :_)


From: Sunil Shah [mailto:s.u.n@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:47 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000

Ion propulsion?  Microwave radiation thrust?  No, it's relativity!

Quick quote: "Just as today no one realizes that you can use the effects of 
relativity to create propulsion. Namely, allowing the effects of relativity to 
absorb the extra momentum of a system of moving charged elements."


>From their kickstarter page:
"The Effects that the SDF Drive Exploits to Generate Thrust
Their still seems to be some misunderstanding on what effects that our device 
exploits to create thrust.Electric fields change their shape depending on the 
charge holding object that holds the charge and the relative velocity that the 
charges are observed from. This effect gives us the magnetic field, when these 
changes are observed outside of a conductor flowing an electric current. This 
change in an electric field is caused by the same force that gives us time 
dilation and apparent length contraction. This effect can't be altered any 
amount of energy. So by using it to generate thrust you are in fact exploiting 
an infinite energy source.


We are able to exploit this effect by using the fact that different shaped 
charged objects have different electric field changes when they are in relative 
motion. An example is a charged sphere has one kind of an electric field change 
due to its relative motion. A square would have a totally different set of 
changes to its electric field.



So if a charged square was close to and in relative motion to a charged sphere, 
the sphere would see a different set of forces on it than the square would see. 
The momentum of the system would change. The current view of physics today is 
that this is impossible. Just like the belief that heavier than air flying 
machines are impossible. No one realized that you could use air pressure to fly 
and change the momentum of the flying machine by using its environment to 
absorb the momentum. Just as today no one realizes that you can use the effects 
of relativity to create propulsion. Namely, allowing the effects of relativity 
to absorb the extra momentum of a system of moving charged elements."



From: s.u.n@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 23:18:24 +0100
Their Feature description for the drive says "Operates in a vacuum and at 1 ATM"
/S

[snip]
... I seem to recall a test was finally conducted on one of these ion 
propulsion devices within a vacuum chamber and the propulsion effect... 
disappeared. IOW, such a propulsion mechanism will not work out in the vacuum 
of space. Thus, it's not a space propulsion device. Does anybody remember the 
conclusions of that analysis?

And are we absolutely sure the same physics is involved here?

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson

[Vo]:Kanarev electrolysis technology

[Alain Sepeda]

Hi,

someone talk to me about Kanarev electrolysis technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRSGFOdRmI

I cannot read that video now, and what I read is a bit fringe.

Kanarev seems involed in magentic overunity motors, as in what looks like
Mizuno generatori with some SHT claims.

Is it classical LENR,

What synthesis could be done about Kanarev fort, at least the wet part ?

[Vo]:Boeing patents force field

[a.ashfield]

Boeing Patents Futuristic Force Field
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bridaineparnell/2015/03/25/boeing-patents-futuristic-force-field/ 

Re: [Vo]:Kanarev electrolysis technology

[Axil Axil]

It looks like the Russian is using a high voltage low current electric arc
to generate solid water based nanoparticles as identified by LeClair. The
solution of nanoparticles are captured and is exposed to a magnetic field
that generates the hydrogen and oxygen.

A more energy efficient way to generated the nanoparticles might be to use
cavitation to produce the nanoparticle solution using a pump as LeClair
does or a ultrasonic transducer. The pump or transducer will not heat the
water to a boil thus saving substantial power.

All these nanoparticle based technologies invented by Papp, Santilli,
LeClair, HHO, and now the Russian Kanarev preprocess a liquid to produce a
solution of nanoparticles to be used in a final energy generation stage.

It looks like Kanarev is producing HHO and producing hydrogen using a
magnetic field.

This video shows the same thing but uses cavitation to produce the
nanoparticles that are activated by a magnetic field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S939PNEhne4



On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> someone talk to me about Kanarev electrolysis technology
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRSGFOdRmI
>
> I cannot read that video now, and what I read is a bit fringe.
>
> Kanarev seems involed in magentic overunity motors, as in what looks like
> Mizuno generatori with some SHT claims.
>
> Is it classical LENR,
>
> What synthesis could be done about Kanarev fort, at least the wet part ?
>

Re: [Vo]:Boeing patents force field

[Terry Blanton]

And coming to Jed's town and mine:

http://www.ajc.com/news/business/sources-boeing-scouting-sites-in-atlanta-for-new-r/nkdQ6/

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:33 AM, a.ashfield  wrote:
> Boeing Patents Futuristic Force Field
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/bridaineparnell/2015/03/25/boeing-patents-futuristic-force-field/

[Vo]:LENR window of opportunity

[Peter Gluck]

Dear Friends,
I have great expectations from tomorrow and this makes
it an everyday day- just have a bit more reasons to wait good news
on March 26, 2015; see please:

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/03/windows-of-opportunity-or-more-for-lenr.html

Peter


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:LENR IS GETTING MORE AIR

[Bob Cook]

An Indian Publication is on board.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/columns/v_sudarshan/Making-a-Nuclear-Power-Point/2015/03/22/article2724158.ece

RE: [Vo]:Kanarev electrolysis technology

[Chris Zell]

Is any of that “HHO” stuff real?  Is there any hard data or theory about it?

Re: [Vo]:Kanarev electrolysis technology

[Axil Axil]

HHO and Santilli's magnagas are about the same thing and they are produced
in about the same way using arc discharge.

Santilli vaporizes organic material, i.e. sewage.

This stuff is hydrogen and oxygen(HHO) or carbon monoxide(Magnagas) with
lots of nanoparticles of water floating around in the gas.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

>   Is any of that “HHO” stuff real?  Is there any hard data or theory
> about it?
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Kanarev electrolysis technology

[Axil Axil]

If a high efficiency method can be developed to produce nanoparticles in
the water like transduced base cavitation, then the production of hydrogen
might be done using a magnet. That would be LENR and may be what SHT is
doing.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> HHO and Santilli's magnagas are about the same thing and they are produced
> in about the same way using arc discharge.
>
> Santilli vaporizes organic material, i.e. sewage.
>
> This stuff is hydrogen and oxygen(HHO) or carbon monoxide(Magnagas) with
> lots of nanoparticles of water floating around in the gas.
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:
>
>>   Is any of that “HHO” stuff real?  Is there any hard data or theory
>> about it?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:prototype for "only" $99,000

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:46 AM, Sunil Shah  wrote:

This change in an electric field is caused by the same force that gives us
> time dilation and apparent length contraction. This effect can’t be altered
> any amount of energy. So by using it to generate thrust you are in fact
> exploiting an infinite energy source.
>

This sounds hand-wavy to me. ;)

Just like the belief that heavier than air flying machines are impossible.
> No one realized that you could use air pressure to fly and change the
> momentum of the flying machine by using its environment to absorb the
> momentum.
>

In the case of a flying machine, you have the force of propulsion from the
gas being displaced by a propellor or expelled by a jet engine and an equal
and opposite force exerted on the engine itself, which moves the flying
machine forward.  The forward movement displaces air over the airfoil as
well as beneath it, causing a vacuum to form above the wing in the former
case and a downward thrust of air which pushes the wing up in the latter.
Air is the medium that makes all of this possible.

Just as today no one realizes that you can use the effects of relativity to
> create propulsion. Namely, allowing the effects of relativity to absorb the
> extra momentum of a system of moving charged elements.
>

Continuing the analogy, what is the medium against which the system of
charged elements is alleged to exert force by exploiting effects of
relativity?

Eric