Re: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[Jones Beene]

Can a genius inventor also be a shameless scam artist? Rossi comes to mind, as 
does Papp.
Maybe even Edison ... and Tesla too. There is a thin line, as they say...

Here is a decent analysis of Papp. Recently posted video - well done
The Mystery of Joe Papp’s Noble Gas Engine | Ryan S. Wood

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The Mystery of Joe Papp’s Noble Gas Engine | Ryan S. Wood


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Re: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

On 15.06.2020 16:03, Chris Zell wrote:

I suspect that the Papp engine involves a secret hiding in plain sight.


Papp in fact used a mixture of noble gases like Ag + Kr,Xe- Both are 
very efficient in support of LENR reactions. You just need to add little 
Deuterium, a rusty Fe2O3 side for the catalytic production of D*and a 
mechanism (strong field) , to trigger the reaction.



Unluckily he was very selfish as most others are too in the LENR 
business. He took everything with him and now power heaven... But I 
think that a reproduction is just a matter of money.



J.W.



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Pandemics, Riots, but at least you don't need to be subjected to internet ads...

[Jonathan Berry]

Oh, I should clarify a few additional points :)

Youtube was used as an example only, this works with m/any sites, and
disables some paywalls too.

Oh, and I just tried using this with an ip address website and it didn't
work, so domains only.



On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 21:59, Jonathan Berry 
wrote:

> Neat little trick I just learnt...
>
> Just add a dot at the of the TLD of a URL, so www.youtube.com becomes
> www.youtube.com.
> Ads might or might not be served but if you have an adblock you won't be
> asked to turn it off.
>
> This also works if there is a /whatever after, indeed it should be
> possible to make this behaviour automatic, but eventually they will catch
> on, till then.
>

RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[JonesBeene]

The working gas would be argon, which is also a reactant.  Argon will from a 
short lived molecule with hydrogen. Helium will not. Too bad since He has 
better heat transfer properties.

For a closed-cycle piston engine of this sort to work, the piston crown and the 
facing cylinder head would need to be catalytic for the formation of dense 
hydrogen when exposed to a mixed pressurized gas of hydrogen and argon. A very 
large compression ratio would be possible.

Ideally dense hydrogen on this catalytic surface would then combine immediately 
as it is being formed - with argon - at TDC which will them form argonium with 
exotherm

For this cycle to repeat ad infinitum, the argonium would need to decay at BDC. 
The normal version of argonium according to Wiki has a lifetime of 2+ 
milliseconds which may be too short for realistic rotational speed.

Thus – another miracle needed for this to work at all, is that the denser form 
of argonium would need to have a lifetime of about 10 milliseconds for a 
resonance at about 6000 RPM. 

No one has published anything about a dense form or argonium or any other 
molecule containing dense hydrogen. Maybe dense hydrogen will not bind to argon 
at all. 

This is why experimenter need to be able to make dense hydrogen reliably – to 
characterize all its properties,  and AFAIK no independent researcher can do 
this now.




Jones—
In your engine conceptual design what is the working gas that is heated and 
then does work in the decompression portion of the cycle?

Is it the Ar-H gas or a separate gas that is heated by the release of energy 
from the reactants in the “reaction chamber” (as the cylinder might be called) 
but not modified  by the release of energy .

For example,heliume might work well and be conserved without modification in a 
hermetically “reaction chamber that contained a “fuel” that would react with an 
appropriate EM trigger—“spark plug.”   Introduction of additional fuel stored 
within  the hermetically sealed  envelop could be accomplished after the 
original charge was sufficiently depleted—maybe a day, a week or longer, 
depending the dynamics of the system parameters that affect the reaction.

Bob Cook
.

➢ In a closed-cycle piston engine, particularly a Stirling-type, the suggestion 
is that there could be an inherent thermodynamic advantage in having sequential 
reactions which are exothermic on formation and then endothermic milliseconds 
later, on the expansion stroke. A resonance could then be engineered, 
especially if the decay was sharp and reliable and the engine ran at one speed 
only. However, this may not be what happens in practice with argon and hydrogen.

➢ If the lifetime of argonium happened with endotherm precisely at BDC, then 
that could present a bonus cooling effect in addition to the change in 
displacement. This would arguably increase the Carnot spread between the hot 
end and cold end of the Stirling. I have not been able to find evidence for 
this type of thermodynamic cycle in the literature.

RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Chris—

I had some of your ideas also.  Helium gas as a working gas seems like a good 
idea.

My understanding about the cause of lightening is based on an accumulation of 
differential  charge (like between two plates of a capacitor) between separate 
clouds and/of the ground.   The charges come from initially neutral atoms that 
loose electrons by frictional action called static electricity.

In most thunder storms with lightening and clouds not too close to the ground, 
lightening occurs between clouds.  If the clouds with their static electrical 
charge centers get close to the ground, a discharge to ground becomes more 
frequent.

Bob Cook
_

From: Chris Zell
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:03 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

I suspect that the Papp engine involves a secret hiding in plain sight.

Inert gases have nothing to do with it. It’s the electrohydraulic effect using 
water vapor. Supposedly, there was a government test, previous to the tragic 
Feynmann incident, in which a gun barrel exploded like petals on a flower, 
cartoon-style.

I did a Quora question on lightning and couldn’t get a straight answer on how 
these discharges work, as the official narrative makes no sense at all.  
Charges in clouds shouldn’t accumulate because of electrostatic repulsion, no 
different from a stack precipitator.
One physicist did offer a reference from a Russian paper which claimed cosmic 
rays trigger lightning but that doesn’t cover the whole thing.

The secret to free energy could be right in front of us, every time it thunders.

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:31 PM
To: vortex 
Subject: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

An interesting proposition for an advanced transportation fuel would be 
presented to us - IF (big if) hydrogen can be routinely converted into a denser 
form on a catalyst, and then expanded in a piston engine configuration. This 
concept would relate to using argon as a "pseudo oxidizer." Argon is not 
exactly "inert" to the same extent as helium and other Column eight atoms (Vlll 
on the periodic table).

AFAIK this exact concept, when transposed into a piston engine configuration, 
has never been explored... or has it? There is the Papp engine, which used 
argon and other inert gases but did not use hydrogen; and there is the Laumann 
engine which included oxygen with argon and no surface catalyst -- but neither 
of those is precisely the same.


sender.

RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—
In your engine conceptual design what is the working gas that is heated and 
then does work in the decompression portion of the cycle?

Is it the Ar-H gas or a separate gas that is heated by the release of energy 
from the reactants in the “reaction chamber” (as the cylinder might be called) 
but not modified  by the release of energy .

For example,heliume might work well and be conserved without modification in a 
hermetically “reaction chamber that contained a “fuel” that would react with an 
appropriate EM trigger—“spark plug.”   Introduction of additional fuel stored 
within  the hermetically sealed  envelop could be accomplished after the 
original charge was sufficiently depleted—maybe a day, a week or longer, 
depending the dynamics of the system parameters that affect the reaction.

Bob Cook
.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jones Beene
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

In a closed-cycle piston engine, particularly a Stirling-type, the suggestion 
is that there could be an inherent thermodynamic advantage in having sequential 
reactions which are exothermic on formation and then endothermic milliseconds 
later, on the expansion stroke.

A resonance could then be engineered, especially if the decay was sharp and 
reliable and the engine ran at one speed only. However, this may not be what 
happens in practice with argon and hydrogen.

If the lifetime of argonium happened with endotherm precisely at BDC, then that 
could present a bonus cooling effect in addition to the change in displacement. 
This would arguably increase the Carnot spread between the hot end and cold end 
of the Stirling.

I have not been able to find evidence for this type of thermodynamic cycle in 
the literature.


Jürg Wyttenbach wrote:

ArH3+ is long time stable and Ar H3+ is the driving factor in Mills original 
SUNCELL reaction. In fact H3+ is the most abundant form of Hydrogen in deep 
space.

RE: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

[Chris Zell]

I suspect that the Papp engine involves a secret hiding in plain sight.

Inert gases have nothing to do with it. It’s the electrohydraulic effect using 
water vapor. Supposedly, there was a government test, previous to the tragic 
Feynmann incident, in which a gun barrel exploded like petals on a flower, 
cartoon-style.

I did a Quora question on lightning and couldn’t get a straight answer on how 
these discharges work, as the official narrative makes no sense at all.  
Charges in clouds shouldn’t accumulate because of electrostatic repulsion, no 
different from a stack precipitator.
One physicist did offer a reference from a Russian paper which claimed cosmic 
rays trigger lightning but that doesn’t cover the whole thing.

The secret to free energy could be right in front of us, every time it thunders.

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:31 PM
To: vortex 
Subject: [Vo]:"Burning"hydrogen with argon ?

An interesting proposition for an advanced transportation fuel would be 
presented to us - IF (big if) hydrogen can be routinely converted into a denser 
form on a catalyst, and then expanded in a piston engine configuration. This 
concept would relate to using argon as a "pseudo oxidizer." Argon is not 
exactly "inert" to the same extent as helium and other Column eight atoms (Vlll 
on the periodic table).

AFAIK this exact concept, when transposed into a piston engine configuration, 
has never been explored... or has it? There is the Papp engine, which used 
argon and other inert gases but did not use hydrogen; and there is the Laumann 
engine which included oxygen with argon and no surface catalyst -- but neither 
of those is precisely the same.


sender.

[Vo]:Pandemics, Riots, but at least you don't need to be subjected to internet ads...

[Jonathan Berry]

Neat little trick I just learnt...

Just add a dot at the of the TLD of a URL, so www.youtube.com becomes
www.youtube.com.
Ads might or might not be served but if you have an adblock you won't be
asked to turn it off.

This also works if there is a /whatever after, indeed it should be possible
to make this behaviour automatic, but eventually they will catch on, till
then.