[Vo]:Scam
Hi All, This is off-topic for vortex, but I think everyone should be aware of this scam. Jack Smith ``Credit Card Scam http://snopes.com/ Snopes.com says this is true. See this site - http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/creditcard.asp This one is pretty slick since they provide YOU with all the information, except the one piece they want Note, the callers do not ask for your card number; they already have it. This information is worth reading. By understanding how the VISA Master Card Telephone Credit Card Scam works, you'll be better prepared to protect yourself. One of our employees was called on Wednesday from 'VISA', and I was called on Thursday from 'Master Card'. The scam works like this: Caller: 'This is (name), and I'm calling from the Security and Fraud Department at VISA. My Badge number is 12460. Your card has been flagged for an unusual purchase pattern, and I'm calling to verify. This would be on your VISA card which was issued by (name of bank). Did you purchase an Anti-Telemarketing Device for $497.99 from a Marketing company based in Arizona?' When you say 'No', the caller continues with, 'Then we will be issuing a credit to your account. This is a company we have been watching and the charges range from $297 to $497, just under the $500 purchase pattern that flags most cards. Before your next statement, the credit will be sent to (gives you your address), is that correct?' You say 'yes'. The caller continues - 'I will be starting a Fraud investigation. If you have any questions, you should call the 1- 800 number listed on the back of your card (1-800 -VISA) and ask for Security.' You will need to refer to this Control Number. The caller then gives you a 6 digit number. 'Do you need me to read it again?' Here's the IMPORTANT part on how the scam works: The caller then says, 'I need to verify you are in possession of your card'. He'll ask you to 'turn your card over and look for some numbers'. There are 7 numbers; the first 4 are p art of your card number, the next 3 are the security Numbers that verify you are the possessor of the card. These are the numbers you sometimes use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card. The caller will ask you to read the 3 numbers to him. After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he'll say, 'That is correct, I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you have any other questions?' After you say No, the caller then thanks you and states, 'Don't hesitate to call back if you do,' and hangs up. You actually say very little, and they never ask for or tell you the Card number. But after we were called on Wednesday, we called back within 20 minutes to ask a question. Are we glad we did! The REAL VISA Security Department told us it was a scam and in the last 15 minutes a new purchase of $497.99 was charged to our card. Long story - short - we made a real fraud report and closed the VISA account. VISA is reissuing us a new number. What the scammers want is the 3-digit PIN number on the back of the card Don't give it to them Instead, tell them you'll call VISA or Master card directly for verification of their conversation. The real VISA told us that they will never ask for anything on the card as they already know the information since they issued the card! If you give the scammers your 3 Digit PIN Number, you think you're receiving a credit. However, by the time you get your statement you'll see charges for purchases you didn't make, and by then it's almost too late and/or more difficult to actually file a fraud report. What makes this more remarkable is that on Thursday, I got a call from a 'Jason Richardson of Master Card' with a word-for-word repeat of the VISA scam. This time I didn't let him finish. I hung up! We filed a police report, as instructed by VISA. The police said they are taking several of these reports daily! They also urged us to tell everybody we know that this scam is happening. Please pass this on to all your family and friends. By informing each other, we protect each other.''
Re: [Vo]:Scam
In reply to Taylor J. Smith's message of Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:30:13 +: Hi, [snip] Perhaps, if you go along with the scam, and give them a completely made up (and wrong) security code, then when they try to make a transaction against your card, it will fail, and set off alarms potentially leading to their capture. Hi All, This is off-topic for vortex, but I think everyone should be aware of this scam. Jack Smith ``Credit Card Scam http://snopes.com/ Snopes.com says this is true. See this site - http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/creditcard.asp This one is pretty slick since they provide YOU with all the information, except the one piece they want [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk mix...@bigpond.com
RE: [Vo]: Scam or no?
SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson You're a riot. Give me a break. I spent an entire 10 hours yesterday replying to emails. My eyes felt like they were generating 10 megawatts of nuclear fission. Paul Lowrance
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Paul, You deserve a break today. Somebody needs a nap. Think I'll take a little lunch snooze myself as well. Sweet dreams. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson You're a riot. Give me a break. I spent an entire 10 hours yesterday replying to emails. My eyes felt like they were generating 10 megawatts of nuclear fission. Paul Lowrance --- Steven Vincent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orionworks.com
[Vo]: Scam or no?
A small auto racing company called Zigouras has gotten into the ultra-efficient electrolysis fray and claims to power an ICE on self-generated hydrogen [Brown's Gas] with zero gasoline. Money back guarantee! The inventor, Paul Zigouras summarized the main details on another forum: 1. The cell is 316L grade s/s plates [Brown's Gas type] spaced at only 0.025 inch apart (0.6 mm) 2. Water goes in one end and gas comes out the other 3. The current drive is via many FET transistors in parallel 4. The output waveform is a perfect square wave as that has all harmonics in it 5. The central frequency is about 40 kHz 6. There is a frequency modulation wobble of the signal +1 to -3 kHz around the base frequency. 7. The current draw at 13.8 volts is between 160 and 190 amps. 8. A cell of about 20 plates 3 x 10 is capable of generating 20,000 litres of gas per minute. 9. The voltage applied to the cell never falls below +1 volt. As one side of the cell is connected to +13.8 volts, that means that the other side of the cell never goes above +12.8 volts. In other words, the square wave switches between zero volts and +12.8 volts 40,000 times per second. 10. Paul Z. developed his circuit by modifying the circuit from Kevin at www.waterforfuel.com. However, it is likely that Paul's final circuit does not have very much in common with Kevin's circuit as Paul did a good deal of development and testing. The company is in Brockton, Mass. They sound like they are onto something which is seemingly scientifically impossible. http://www.zigourasracing.com/ I would not even have mentioned it - since the claim is preposterous on its surface (although others have been making the same claim since Dad Garrett in 1935, especially Stan Meyers)... except that Zigouras do seems to be a valid racing outfit - so they must know a thing or two about engines. Zigouras Racing is building and recently started selling (on eBay!) this water-fuel technology (BG electrolysis) unit which sounds too good to be true, and probably is hyped-up beyond a real ability to validate, but anyway is there any anomaly at all in what they are doing? They have an electroyzer driven by very high amps off of a beefed up alternator in an auto - they are claiming to be capable of electrolyzing 5 gallons of water per minute (impossible !) and then using only this (part steam part H2 and O2 or Brown's gas) to power a vehicle with no gasoline! Not the first time this claim has been made, of course. Stanley Meyer returns from the grave g. Below is data from their eBay ad which appeared here (may be lapsed): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=120086147205 This is our first production ECM (electronic control module) for our standard water cell. This ECM is pictured on the right, and is rated at 150 amps output. This module comes completely calibrated to our 14-plate cell, and is plug-and-play -- no tuning required. If you are planning on running your car strictly on water, without the use of gasoline, this ECM will run the car just fine as long as your engine is around 2.5 L or so. Larger engines will have limited throttle response, and should use the larger ECM (pictured on the left) which is rated at up to 400 amps. This larger ECM will be auctioned off in a few days on ebay. The unit in this auction is capable of putting out over 150 amps (12VDC) at 35khz. This intelligent unit modifies the signal to allow for peak HHO gas output, while drawing minimal current. On smaller engines, you can generate up to 90 horsepower with our 14-plate cell, and over 150 horsepower with our 30-plate cell. The 30-plate cell requires the heavy duty version of this ECM, which only costs slightly more than the smaller version. This is version 1.0A of the ECM, which does not have any type of safeties built into it. Shorting the plates could cause damage to the electronics, so we recommend only using our cells for your projects. ECM has a 90 day warranty, if installed and used correctly. Warranty covers the ECM only -- labor and shipping is not included. If you are looking to run a V8 or other type of large engine, please call engineering at (508) 583-5133. We are currenty designing an ECM specifically for larger engines, even though doing so will consume a tremendous amount of water. Technical support is provided for the ECM at the number above, however, it should be pretty self-explanitory. There are only 2 wires in, and 2 wires out to the cell, so it is very easy to connect. Please note that using any other electrolysis cells other than ours will VOID your warranty. Buyer pays SH. More later, Jones
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jones Beene wrote: They have an electroyzer driven by very high amps off of a beefed up alternator in an auto - they are claiming to be capable of electrolyzing 5 gallons of water per minute (impossible !) and then using only this (part steam part H2 and O2 or Brown's gas) 5 gallons = 19 liters; 19 kg. The heat of vaporization of water is 540 cal/g, so they are claiming at least 42 MJ/min energy production. That is the least amount; actually there would be much more, if a substantial fraction of the water is converted to free H2 and O2. Let's say it is 84 MJ/min. That's equivalent to 2 kg of gasoline a minute, or 1.4 MW. The biggest racing car engines are about 200 kW. 1.4 MW is enough for large railroad locomotive or WWII era fighter aircraft. If you put that much energy into something the size of an automobile engine, it would melt. I vote scam. The claim is preposterous, and the supposed output is off by a factor of 7 or more. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jed Rothwell wrote: I vote scam. The claim is preposterous, and the supposed output is off by a factor of 7 or more. ...more like 70 than 7. Let's say they were electrolyzing 5 gallons per hour, instead of per minute - (this info has been passed around the web enough for typos to be repeated) that is still plenty of gas to power an ICE if much of it was short lived chemical intermediaries, or even some kind of stable capacitance - instead of steam. The transit time from reactor to cylinder is in milliseconds, so even if the capacitance is not stable for much longer - it could somehow be effective. Still there is no indication of anything in independent testing. I was reluctant to post this at all, as I read about it several weeks ago, when it was first put on eBay - and thought it definitely a scam then - but hey - a money back guarantee is something that an adventuresome person (modern-day Feynman) will surely risk - if only to prove them wrong. BTW - in looking deeper at the racing company - there have been complaints about their regular products to the racing market - which are unresolved. Which makes me even more sure that this is a scam... (but always hopeful of being proved wrong). Jones
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jones Beene wrote: ...more like 70 than 7. Let's say they were electrolyzing 5 gallons per hour, instead of per minute - (this info has been passed around the web enough for typos to be repeated) that is still plenty of gas to power an ICE if much of it was short lived chemical intermediaries, or even some kind of stable capacitance - instead of steam. I suppose 5 gallons per hour would be right on the money for a race car. That would make sense. As you say, it is off by a factor of 70 -- or 60, as in 60 minutes. I was reluctant to post this at all . . . Heck, why? It is on topic. Thanks for sharing it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
- Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Scam or no? 5 gallons = 19 liters; 19 kg. The heat of vaporization of water is 540 cal/g, so they are claiming at least 42 MJ/min energy production. That is the least amount; actually there would be much more, if a substantial fraction of the water is converted to free H2 and O2. Let's say it is 84 MJ/min. That's equivalent to 2 kg of gasoline a minute, or 1.4 MW. The biggest racing car engines are about 200 kW. 1.4 MW is enough for large railroad locomotive or WWII era fighter aircraft. If you put that much energy into something the size of an automobile engine, it would melt. Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454ci big block, 490hp = 365,540 watts. People routinely put blowers and such on these motors, port and polish the heads, etc., 1khp is not unreasonable. Then you are up to 0.75 megawatt. Of course, it gets hot, so you have to have a bloody good cooling system. A time honored trick that helps a lot is to remove the thermostat and let the coolant free-flow. Add an extra belt-driven or electric powered coolant pump, an oversized radiator, and you're good to go. Gives off so much CO2 that polar bears spontaneously combust from the added warming. ;) Point is, 200kW is by no means the biggest engine used for racing or otherwise in automobiles. Is it the biggest you'll probably ever NEED? Probably, and then some. As far as the claims of the whatsit racing company, I have a hard time believing it. 5 gallons of water per minute? Even if you could do this, to burn that much hydrogen in an engine per minute would be insane. If the cylinder head is aluminum, like most these daysBad Juju. --Kyle, Vo's evil mechanic
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: Then you are up to 0.75 megawatt. Of course, it gets hot, so you have to have a bloody good cooling system. A time honored trick that helps a lot is to remove the thermostat and let the coolant free-flow. Add an extra belt-driven or electric powered coolant pump, an oversized radiator, and you're good to go. So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance
