Re: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
Jones Beene wrote: > > Because "plain text" does not show > superscripts in vortex postings - when you see "2He," which should have the > 2 as a superscript When it is important to indicate a superscript, I suggest a caret: ^2He That is well known. Less often, an underline is used to indicate a subscript: H_2O - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
Fran, Let me clarify a couple of things. Because "plain text" does not show superscripts in vortex postings - when you see "2He," which should have the 2 as a superscript - that refers to the transient helium-2 nucleus, composed of two protons and no neutrons. It has slight negative binding energy (due to anti-aligned spins) - which is temporarily overwhelmed by strong force attraction - thereby making the fused helium isotope real, but instantly reversible - triggering QCD color change. The P+P reversible fusion reaction, on earth, probably requires Casimir cavity confinement or equivalent, as a substitute for a strong gravity field (in the solar model). This is the most common nuclear reaction in the universe by far - the "reversible fusion of two protons" and it has always been assumed to have no gain. Two protons can never fuse directly to deuterium - therefore the secondary reaction (beta decay) always must happen in fused 2He as a first step - to give the occasional deuteron - on which most of the heat of the sun depends, eventually. This process is the "throttle" that keeps the sun from burning up its mass rapidly. But there could be more to the thermal story, if there is asymmetry. As a result of the evolution of nanomagnetic theory by Ahern, myself and others - the focus has moved beyond suggesting that "ZPE" is the proximate energy source, but -yes- ZPE may be involved at a deeper level. The zero point field was always a kind of "page-marker" awaiting more careful analysis. If the hypothesis of PP reversible fusion holds, we may find that the strong force itself depends on ZPE, in another basic context - such as hydrogen mass regauging (thanks to Mark) . Whether or not a new kind of Bussard Ramjet (a Bastard Ramjet, so to speak :-) is possible, based on "reversible diproton nuclear fusion asymmetry without beta decay" - is just a guess - but it seems likely. In any event the fusion reaction is extremely short lived, immediately reverting to two protons. The reaction happens incessantly on the sun (or in the Casimir cavity) so much so that it is hard to distinguish from elastic collision - except for the few attoseconds of "stickiness" which invokes QCD. Elastic collisions are no gain. In the Nickel-hydrogen nanomagnetic theory - neither helium-3, helium-4 nor deuterium are seen to any substantial extent. This is where it departs from Storms and other who are suggesting deuterium and helium. We have a more tolerable leap of faith for explaining the gain in Ni-H, which does not depend on the extraordinary rarity of beta-decay - and is a strong force modality, not a weak force modality like W&L, (which is not yet proved, but is falsifiable). This quasi-fusion reaction will be slightly asymmetric due to QCD color change following the transient fusion event. In both cases (on the Sun, or in the cavity on earth) the slight energy gain amounts to a tiny fraction of an eV, in the range of the Dirac h-bar equivalent. Small gain, yes but there can be lots of them sequentially, when protons are in confinement with relativistic virtual photons. QCD is the quantum theory which best models the strong force - and the color changes in QCD are generally not symmetric - thus opening the door for bosonic transfer of a bit of proton average mass, via magnons. Magnons are important in a confining structure which is ferromagnetic, since the transfer boson will supply the excess heat via magnetic induction of any ferromagnetic atom nearby. It is no accident that recently, strong apparent thermal gain with no gammas has been seen with cobalt and hydrogen. Nickel and cobalt are active, but iron is apparently not as active as the other two ferromagnetic candidates. The reason why is worth knowing, and it may related to what is called "hydrogen embrittlement". Strong, or at least ductile, cavity porosity is required. From: Roarty, Francis X ... the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He [no, not helium-4, we are talking about transient helium-2] <>
Re: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
In reply to Robert Lynn's message of Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:46:45 +0100: Hi, [snip] >One of the cool things about Ni-H LENR is that it has the potential to make >Bussard Ramjets more feasible (assuming it is H-H fusion as now seems most >likely). > >A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar >medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and >fires it out the back. The concept has always had a major flaw in that >hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part >of Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle. > >Even if that whole fusion reaction happened in a LENR cell and the power >conversion requires a heat engine the energy could still be used to drive a >particle accelerator that accelerated the ash (Helium?) out the back. You >would essentially never run out of fuel (so long as your LENR lattice >does't get used up), so possibly much faster trips to the stars without the >requirement for ridiculously large exotic (deuterium, lithium or He3) fuel >storage tanks. > >Speed might still be limited to a few % of c, but even that looks pretty >good from where we are standing now, as they can also be used for >decelleration and Bussard LENR ramjet ships might be a lot cheaper and more >compact than what was hither-to thought possible. If the ratio of D/H is the same in interstellar gas as it is in water, then the average energy available per Hydrogen atom, from H+D -> He3 is 857 eV, which is higher than current chemical fuels by a factor of about 100. Hence the Bussard Ramjet principle has never had a problem. BTW you can create an electrical equivalent of the Bussard Ramjet, by shooting a beam of electrons ahead of the rocket. These attach themselves to hydrogen atoms forming negative ions which are then attracted to the positive charge left on the rocket when the electrons were ejected, thus "sucking" the ions into the rocket. The "sucking" action also imparts momentum to the rocket, in addition to the momentum acquired by ejecting fast particles out the rear. (The momentum lost by ejecting the electrons forward is only 2-3% of that acquired by sucking the ions in, due to the huge difference in mass). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
On Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:25 PM Jones Beene said [snip] the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He - is not only EASY in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is slightly gainful in its own right. [/snip] Agreed, and well said but to clarify, we outside the cavity are now at the well bottom relative to the suppression inside the confined cavity and it is we that appear to slow down in time like the occupants of a spaceship approaching C relative to a tiny observer in the cavity... Or said another way why from our perspective reactions appear to happen so much faster inside a catalyst like Rayney nickel and why Jan Naudts can describe the hydrino as being relativistic without and spatial displacement. It also explains claims of modified radioactive decay, Fran From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet From: Robert Lynn A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and fires it out the back. The concept has always had a major flaw in that hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part of Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle. "fusion proof" is not accurate, IMO. In fact, the situation is almost the opposite. The problem can be better stated as one in which the initial stage of hydrogen fusion is of extremely low gain. In fact, it is looking very much as if the reversible fusion reaction: P+P -> 2He ->P+P Which accounts for almost all of the nuclear reactions in any star ... and which is the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He - is not only EASY in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is slightly gainful in its own right. It has been assumed in most astrophysics models that proton fusion to 2He is no gain (e.g. on our sun), but it looks to me like the gain from QCD can amount to about 10^-16 eV per reaction on average. This explains part of the solar neutrino deficit. And therefore this basic proton fusion reaction itself, cannot lead to a Bussard Ramjet, at least not as initially described. Since the much more robust beta-decay, which is necessary to transmute two protons into deuterium (from 2He) is so rare, there can be no 3He or 4He in any such design due to time constraints. It requires approximately 10^20 P+P fusion reactions (sequentially) before a single beta decay is seen, and even then the deuterium does not survive long ... as the neutron is stripped off most of the time before further reaction to helium. If it were not so, stars like our sun would burn up long before their normal lifetime of ten+ billion years. This only means that - in a revised Ramjet design - some portion of the interstellar hydrogen which collected, needs to be routed to LENR reactors, turned into heat and then into electricity in a completely separate system, so that the rest of the collected hydrogen (in the Ramjet funnel) can be magnetically compressed and accelerated as if in a beam line - using the electrical energy generated (from the portion of hydrogen which is fed to the LENR reactors). The end result is almost the same.
RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
From: Robert Lynn A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and fires it out the back. The concept has always had a major flaw in that hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part of Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle. "fusion proof" is not accurate, IMO. In fact, the situation is almost the opposite. The problem can be better stated as one in which the initial stage of hydrogen fusion is of extremely low gain. In fact, it is looking very much as if the reversible fusion reaction: P+P -> 2He ->P+P Which accounts for almost all of the nuclear reactions in any star . and which is the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He - is not only EASY in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is slightly gainful in its own right. It has been assumed in most astrophysics models that proton fusion to 2He is no gain (e.g. on our sun), but it looks to me like the gain from QCD can amount to about 10^-16 eV per reaction on average. This explains part of the solar neutrino deficit. And therefore this basic proton fusion reaction itself, cannot lead to a Bussard Ramjet, at least not as initially described. Since the much more robust beta-decay, which is necessary to transmute two protons into deuterium (from 2He) is so rare, there can be no 3He or 4He in any such design due to time constraints. It requires approximately 10^20 P+P fusion reactions (sequentially) before a single beta decay is seen, and even then the deuterium does not survive long . as the neutron is stripped off most of the time before further reaction to helium. If it were not so, stars like our sun would burn up long before their normal lifetime of ten+ billion years. This only means that - in a revised Ramjet design - some portion of the interstellar hydrogen which collected, needs to be routed to LENR reactors, turned into heat and then into electricity in a completely separate system, so that the rest of the collected hydrogen (in the Ramjet funnel) can be magnetically compressed and accelerated as if in a beam line - using the electrical energy generated (from the portion of hydrogen which is fed to the LENR reactors). The end result is almost the same.
[Vo]:Bussard Ramjet
One of the cool things about Ni-H LENR is that it has the potential to make Bussard Ramjets more feasible (assuming it is H-H fusion as now seems most likely). A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and fires it out the back. The concept has always had a major flaw in that hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part of Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle. Even if that whole fusion reaction happened in a LENR cell and the power conversion requires a heat engine the energy could still be used to drive a particle accelerator that accelerated the ash (Helium?) out the back. You would essentially never run out of fuel (so long as your LENR lattice does't get used up), so possibly much faster trips to the stars without the requirement for ridiculously large exotic (deuterium, lithium or He3) fuel storage tanks. Speed might still be limited to a few % of c, but even that looks pretty good from where we are standing now, as they can also be used for decelleration and Bussard LENR ramjet ships might be a lot cheaper and more compact than what was hither-to thought possible.
