Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 10 May 2011 15:38:31 -0700: Hi, Good work Robin! However, would you not agree with me that this reaction, however desirable, is unlikely due to VB finding zero gammas? Jones Little less likely than a n-B10 reaction. It has the additional benefit that Hydrinos (and their molecules) are long lasting and very small, hence they can readily migrate through the interstitial spaces in a solid lattice, making it easy to reach the Boron. (Though Mills doesn't think they can penetrate the electron shells of the B.) [snip] Yes - http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg43763.html :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 9 May 2011 11:12:34 -0700: Hi, [snip] Hmm ... Well actually, the boron could be the critical difference, and until today it has been under the radar - have you seen anyone even consider the possibility that boron could be the active heat source? Yes - http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg43763.html :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
Good work Robin! However, would you not agree with me that this reaction, however desirable, is unlikely due to VB finding zero gammas? Jones -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com Hmm ... Well actually, the boron could be the critical difference, and until today it has been under the radar - have you seen anyone even consider the possibility that boron could be the active heat source? Yes - http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg43763.html :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
[Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
The situation is as clear as mud. See: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece - Jed
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The situation is as clear as mud. See: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece - Jed I like the formulation nanometric nickel particles No word of catalysis-yet. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
In a quick count of metals employed in this patent, copper is mentioned seven times and nickel six times. The testing of active powder in Sweden has shown a natural isotope balance of copper, and no radioactivity. Given that nickel has the second most stable nucleus in the periodic table, how can any objective observer believe that the heat from this reactor depends on the conversion of nickel to copper for the heating effect? .other than that Rossi says so ? Clearly, Rossi has no clue .. I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for gain. Jones From: Jed Rothwell http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece - Jed
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
* I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for the high gain. This would be due to the very high cross-section of boron for neutrons (thermal neutrons). I do not know that boron retains the high cross-section for cold neutrons, but if you look at the tables, which do not address this AFAIK - there is reason to believe that it would be higher - not lower. Thermal neutrons undergo a strong reaction with the boron-10, with the result being an alpha particle and lithium 7. Those two would be the ash, so the hypothesis is easily falsifiable. The downside of the hypothesis is that the boron is not located in the reactor, so how do cold neutrons migrate? This is a very energetic reaction and bremsstrahlung would not have been missed by VB, so in summary, this route is just as doubtful as any nuclear route - unless the there is a new physics version of some kind to hide high energy photons. Jones
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
This is a boron day for me . g not boring but boronic. Every day provides new or previously overlooked details, and perhaps an element of Rossi's good fortune will be that someone, probably not from U of B, but from somewhere else is going to provide answers that could help him. The role of boron may be one of them. I am still thinking about the commitment of NASA to this technology. The interest from Langley - from all reports - is much stronger than the interviews indicate, and they seem to be hell-bent on it, with a large staff, and are operating on the premise of it being at least partly related to the WL theory. When I say 'partly related' - in truth the active particle seems much more likely to be a version of the virtual neutron than the ULM since in the Rossi configuration, it must travel in a range of 1-2 cm to activate the boron. The ULM cannot do that. To give credit where it is due, there are many names associated with the idea that hydrogen, and especially spillover hydrogen (monatomic) can interact as a neutron - due to electron orbital shrinkage, or deflation, passivation, or whatnot - and the party that came up with the idea first should be credited. Why that person, twenty years ago - did not actually employ boron is a mystery. (that is if it is the active ingredient in E-Cat, which is today's floater. The names of Vigier, Dufour, Mills and Swartz from the early nineties are associated in my mind with this virtual neutron concept - but I do not know who should be credited as the originator - but for sure it is not Larsen (unless he published something outside of the usual cannels and around 1991. From: Jones Beene * I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for the high gain. This would be due to the very high cross-section of boron for neutrons (thermal neutrons). I do not know that boron retains the high cross-section for cold neutrons, but if you look at the tables, which do not address this AFAIK - there is reason to believe that it would be higher - not lower. Thermal neutrons undergo a strong reaction with the boron-10, with the result being an alpha particle and lithium 7. Those two would be the ash, so the hypothesis is easily falsifiable. The downside of the hypothesis is that the boron is not located in the reactor, so how do cold neutrons migrate? This is a very energetic reaction and bremsstrahlung would not have been missed by VB, so in summary, this route is just as doubtful as any nuclear route - unless the there is a new physics version of some kind to hide high energy photons. Jones
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF (trapped neutron catalyzed fusion) is described the best ib his book: The Science of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon, Elsevier Ed. 2006 Peter On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: This is a “boron day” for me … g not boring but boronic. Every day provides new or previously overlooked details, and perhaps an element of Rossi’s good fortune will be that someone, probably not from U of B, but from somewhere else is going to provide answers that could help him. The role of boron may be one of them. I am still thinking about the commitment of NASA to this technology. The interest from Langley - from all reports - is much stronger than the interviews indicate, and they seem to be hell-bent on it, with a large staff, and are operating on the premise of it being at least partly related to the WL theory. When I say ‘partly related’ – in truth the active particle seems much more likely to be a version of the “virtual neutron” than the ULM since in the Rossi configuration, it must travel in a range of 1-2 cm to activate the boron. The ULM cannot do that. To give credit where it is due, there are many names associated with the idea that hydrogen, and especially spillover hydrogen (monatomic) can “interact as a neutron” - due to electron orbital shrinkage, or deflation, passivation, or whatnot – and the party that came up with the idea first should be credited. Why that person, twenty years ago - did not actually employ boron is a mystery. (that is if it is the active ingredient in E-Cat, which is today’s “floater”. The names of Vigier, Dufour, Mills and Swartz from the early nineties are associated in my mind with this virtual neutron concept - but I do not know who should be credited as the originator – but for sure it is not Larsen (unless he published something outside of the usual cannels and around 1991. *From:* Jones Beene Ø I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for the high gain… This would be due to the very high cross-section of boron for neutrons (thermal neutrons). I do not know that boron retains the high cross-section for cold neutrons, but if you look at the tables, which do not address this AFAIK - there is reason to believe that it would be higher – not lower. Thermal neutrons undergo a strong reaction with the boron-10, with the result being an alpha particle and lithium 7. Those two would be the ash, so the hypothesis is easily falsifiable. The downside of the hypothesis is that the boron is not located in the reactor, so how do cold neutrons migrate? This is a very energetic reaction and bremsstrahlung would not have been missed by VB, so in summary, this route is just as doubtful as any nuclear route – unless the there is a “new physics” version of some kind to hide high energy photons. Jones -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
From: Peter Gluck In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF (trapped neutron catalyzed fusion) is described the best in his book: The Science of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon, Elsevier Ed. 2006 Peter Found this scanned paper from ICCF7: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00210/Papers/papera/ICCF7.pdf for a shortened version.
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
Jones, I think you nailed it on the copper migration since it appears the copper tube is buried in the powder but when they say said copper tube further including at least a heating electrical resistance are they Implying the internal resistor is INSIDE the copper pipe? Fran 9. An apparatus method according to claim 7, characterized in that in said nickel powder filled metal tube (2) is a copper tube, said copper tube further including at least a heating electrical resistance, said tube being encompassed by a jacket (7) including either water or boron or only boron, said jacket (7) being encompassed by further lead jacket (8) in turn optionally encompassed by a steel layer (9), said jackets (7, 8) being adapted to prevent radiations emitted from said copper tube (2) from exiting said copper tube (2), thereby also transforming said radiations into thermal energy.
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
OMG - Lazar and Jarod do their boron shtick ... http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desert_rat/1995/dr24/#boron To quote from this unassailable source of info: The vast majority of the world's Boron comes from the United States, and most of that is extracted from a big hole in the ground at--you guessed it--Boron, California, which happens to be adjacent to the most secret part of Edwards Air Force Base. The second largest producer is Searles Dry Lake at Trona, California, which happens to be adjacent to the highly restricted China Lake Naval Weapons Center. The other Boron mines in the U.S. are in those military/UFO hotbeds, Nevada and New Mexico. Are we beginning to detect a BORON CONSPIRACY??? In any case, our recommendation to investors is BUY. End of quote... Hey, can one actually buy boron futures? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton This is a boron day for me . g not boring but boronic. There are several anecdotes in Ufology about aliens' boron usage. T
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
Thanks, if it is about priority, we have to take Hideo in consideration. Peter On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Peter Gluck ** * * In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF (trapped neutron catalyzed fusion) is described the best in his book: “The Science of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon,” Elsevier Ed. 2006 Peter Found this scanned paper from ICCF7: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00210/Papers/papera/ICCF7.pdf for a shortened version… -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper? Harry From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 9:43:33 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent In a quick count of metals employed in this patent, copper is mentioned seven times and nickel six times. The testing of active powder in Sweden has shown a natural isotope balance of copper, and no radioactivity. Given that nickel has the second most stable nucleus in the periodic table, how can any objective observer believe that the heat from this reactor depends on the conversion of nickel to copper for the heating effect? …other than that Rossi says so ? Clearly, Rossi has no clue …. I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for gain… Jones From:Jed Rothwell http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece - Jed
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=8#comment-37766 Luis Vaccaro May 9th, 2011 at 3:05 AM Dear Mr Rossi, Just some curiosities: 1) do you explain all about the secret catalyst in you patent? 2) if this is the case, the nature of the catalyst will be revealed after the release of the patent or after the 20 years of live of the patent? 3) do you know, approximately, how much will cost the recharge of the module after the 6 month of working ? thanks very much for your answers! L.V. Andrea Rossi May 9th, 2011 at 8:36 AM Dear Mr Luis Vaccaro: 1- no 2- no 3- 100 $ Warm regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23:07 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent From:Harry Veeder How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper? Galvanic corrosion …. Well known between nickel and copper Doesn't that require some moisture between the copper and nickel? Anyway, why should we now believe Rossi is correctly describing his patent claims? Right now we have only his word that the claims described in the Ny Teknik article are the claims present in his Italian patent. Harry
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
-Original Message- From: Harry Veeder How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper? Galvanic corrosion …. Well known between nickel and copper HV: Doesn't that require some moisture between the copper and nickel? Not necessarily 'moisture' so much as a solvent or other 'vehicle,' and hot hydrogen should do the trick ... it is very corrosive. HV: Anyway, why should we now believe Rossi is correctly describing his patent claims? Good point and I agree that this one is probably still a more of a decoy than anything else. There are many reports of another WIPO filing which will be published soon, which will probably identify the catalyst, since essentially that is probably his main breakthrough. How the Italians can differentiate this one from Piantelli is not clear, so what has he protected really? Hmm ... Well actually, the boron could be the critical difference, and until today it has been under the radar - have you seen anyone even consider the possibility that boron could be the active heat source? Boron could easily be the real secret - hiding in plain view, as it were... somewhat like OBL ... Surely we are not the first to pick up on this ??? Jones
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
I am eager for that patent to be published! I want to learn what the catalyst is! From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 11:12:34 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper? Galvanic corrosion …. Well known between nickel and copper HV: Doesn't that require some moisture between the copper and nickel? Not necessarily 'moisture' so much as a solvent or other 'vehicle,' and hot hydrogen should do the trick ... it is very corrosive. HV: Anyway, why should we now believe Rossi is correctly describing his patent claims? Good point and I agree that this one is probably still a more of a decoy than anything else. There are many reports of another WIPO filing which will be published soon, which will probably identify the catalyst, since essentially that is probably his main breakthrough. How the Italians can differentiate this one from Piantelli is not clear, so what has he protected really? Hmm ... Well actually, the boron could be the critical difference, and until today it has been under the radar - have you seen anyone even consider the possibility that boron could be the active heat source? Boron could easily be the real secret - hiding in plain view, as it were... somewhat like OBL ... Surely we are not the first to pick up on this ??? Jones
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
Perhaps at one time Rossi used a setup in which the nickel was in a copper tube, but now it is in a stainless steel reactor vessel. No electromigration can take place. From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: jone...@pacbell.net Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 8:02:08 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent Jones, I think you nailed it on the copper migration since it appears the copper tube is buried in the powder but when they say “said copper tube further including at least a heating electrical resistance” are they Implying the internal resistor is INSIDE the copper pipe? Fran 9. An apparatus method according to claim 7, characterized in that in said nickel powder filled metal tube (2) is a copper tube, said copper tube further including at least a heating electrical resistance, said tube being encompassed by a jacket (7) including either water or boron or only boron, said jacket (7) being encompassed by further lead jacket (8) in turn optionally encompassed by a steel layer (9), said jackets (7, 8) being adapted to prevent radiations emitted from said copper tube (2) from exiting said copper tube (2), thereby also transforming said radiations into thermal energy.
Re: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
1) The reactor vessel is composed of stainless steel that does not contain copper. 2) Copper appears in the nickel powder. It's pretty obvious that nickel is transmuting to copper. From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 6:43:33 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent In a quick count of metals employed in this patent, copper is mentioned seven times and nickel six times. The testing of active powder in Sweden has shown a natural isotope balance of copper, and no radioactivity. Given that nickel has the second most stable nucleus in the periodic table, how can any objective observer believe that the heat from this reactor depends on the conversion of nickel to copper for the heating effect? …other than that Rossi says so ? Clearly, Rossi has no clue …. I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for gain… Jones From:Jed Rothwell http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece - Jed
RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
From: noone noone 1) The reactor vessel is composed of stainless steel that does not contain copper. Not according to the patent. 2) Copper appears in the nickel powder. Yes, and it gets there by a scientifically valid process. It's pretty obvious that nickel is transmuting to copper. Nonsense. Nickel is a very stable nucleus and does not transmute into copper easily. Copper only gets into the powder by the known route of Galvanic migration. Please spare us this anti-science Fan-boy bogosity. Jones
