Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote: > If considered that in E-Cat there is constantly flowing cool water to > replenish boiled water, then it is quite obvious that 2.5 kilowatt is > very much possible with Mats' E-Cat. I disagree. Heating the constant flow of cool water (at 1 g/L) to the boiling point consumes 300W in Lewan's experiment. That can be calculated. That leaves 2.2 kW for steam production, to be compared directly with the video. Even if you consider the two plumes to be similar, Lewan's claim is at least a factor of 2 too high. 2.5 kW is not very much possible. But the plume in Lewan's video seems far smaller than the in the kitchen video, meaning that a small increase in the power by Rossi when he is off-camera can easily explain the observations. The thing about the 4 or 5 or 10 kW claims is that they make faking it much more difficult, because ordinary mains circuits don't usually supply that kind of power. Once you reduce these claims into the kW or few hundred watt range, then some simple power or flow rate misrepresentations is all it takes. However Steven's E-Cat was > malfunctioning while video was shot. > Has Rossi made this excuse, or have you taken to making excuses for him? > > That stove was quite modern, therefore it is likely that around 90% of > heat goes for boiling water, because it is good idea to design stoves > that produces as little as possible waste heat. The stove design has nothing to do with how much heat is captured by the pot. You can see the heating element. That means IR is quite clearly escaping. Look at the trouble Rossi went to to insulate his ecat, so that all the heat went in to the water. In the kitchen video, heat escapes before it enters the pot, and the pot itself is not insulated, and quite large, and will also lose heat. This is the only reasonable way to calculate the power > output. Because we know that this kind of setup produces DRY STEAM and > we can calculate the power directly from the reduced mass of the pot. > Drier steam, presumably, but a boiler typically produces 5% wet steam. In the write-up, they say they produced both dry and wet steam.
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
[ Delayed by jail-house-mail -- should be BEFORE my comment on test3 ] At 11:16 AM 7/7/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote: Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a 4m long hose: . What do you think? Not enough controls. But THIS guy's interesting TinselKoala (his videos are long, but show the whole process) Ah again See the Stella Nokia anagram thread. It only just struck me they're the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXwRRivQ9Y eKitty1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bELcYma26aI Boiling water at 800W http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dau3nBNxDSo eKitty supplemental -- thermometer callibration At 800W he boiled 40mL of water in 180 secs. That's 0.22 mL/sec compared to Rossi/Krivit's 2mL/sec There's a Test 3 I haven't watched yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ser9_tGiU In a separate series he did some amusing electrical stuff on a "Joule Thief" -- highlighting the perils of HF futz on electrical circuits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWDfrzBIxoQ
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
At 01:48 PM 7/7/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: There's a Test 3 I haven't watched yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ser9_tGiU Oops -- that's a different one -- Mr Powerpuff. But it DOES show how water collects in the hose.
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
The original post is here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.energikatalysatorn.se%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D2%26t%3D143
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
If considered that in E-Cat there is constantly flowing cool water to replenish boiled water, then it is quite obvious that 2.5 kilowatt is very much possible with Mats' E-Cat. However Steven's E-Cat was malfunctioning while video was shot. That stove was quite modern, therefore it is likely that around 90% of heat goes for boiling water, because it is good idea to design stoves that produces as little as possible waste heat. However it would have been a good idea to measure weight of the pot before and after the experiment. This is the only reasonable way to calculate the power output. Because we know that this kind of setup produces DRY STEAM and we can calculate the power directly from the reduced mass of the pot. –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
The woven works at 1700W.
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
It is hard to tell, but that does look similar to NyTeknik's video. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
Josh wrote: "Surely someone so brilliant to find the solution to the world's energy problems, should be able to design an airtight demonstration of it, that the galloping gourmet can't dispute." I'm sure Rossi could if he wanted to... he just doesn't have the time, and has stated that several times. Live with it. It certainly isn't a valid reason for making any kind of conclusions... Doing these demos has been a distraction for him, and they aren't important to achieving his short-term goal of getting the 1MW plant online in Oct. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a > 4m long hose: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwINedGR_Q > > It does look like the swedish's magzine video, NyTeknik, including the > weird sounds, around 1200W: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SeOteFPtM > > What do you think? > > 1. Lewan claimed 2.3 to 2.6 kW (of which 300 W is needed to heat the water to the boiling point). So at least 2 kW would have been going in to the steam formation. In Krivit's case, more than 4 kW go into making steam. 2. The steam from this video looks like a lot more steam to me than Lewan showed, especially more than what was shown when Lewan's camera first pans into the other room. The steam or bubbling seems to increase substantially while Lewan examines it, and Rossi is off-camera. And the steam is certainly far more than observed in the Krivit video. 3. The new video uses a heating element underneath the pot, not inside the water. The heater is clearly visible in the video, which means a substantial fraction of the heat will not have made it into the water. Best case for Rossi: The levels of steam are similar, and the efficiency in the stovetop video is 100%, Lewan is exaggerating the output power by a factor of 2, and Krivit (or Rossi in Krivit's demo) by a factor of 4. Medium case: The efficiency of the stove heating is 60%, the steam in Lewan's and Krivit's video is 60% as much as in the stovetop video. Then the steam in the ecat demo videos represents about 400 W. In Lewan's case, given the input 300W is consumed to raise the water to boiling, that would represent 400 W excess, a factor of 5 lower than Lewan claimed. In Krivit's case, the input 800 W exceeds the power needed to raise the water to boiling by 200W, so that represents about 200W excess, a factor of 20 less than Rossi claimed. Most likely case: The stove efficiency is 60% and the steam in the ecat videos is 60% as much as in the stovetop video, and the flow rate or input power are misrepresented a little. In Krivit's case, if the flow rate is lower by a factor of 2, then only 300W is needed to heat the water, leaving 500W to produce steam, entirely consistent with what is observed. In Lewan's case, if the power is increased to 700 W, then subtracting 300W to heat the water, leaves 400W for steam, again consistent with observation. Of course the numbers are guesses. But the video clearly demonstrates that the output power is without question exaggerated in both the Lewan and Krivit demos. Considering the input power could have easily been raised to more than 1 kW, it demonstrates that plausible misrepresentations can explain all the observations, without invoking exotic nuclear reactions. But we should all agree that this situation is profoundly silly. That experiments in someone's kitchen with a roll of masking tape, a cooking pot, and a garden hose can raise questions about a demonstration of a revolutionary new source of energy, should give everyone pause. Surely someone so brilliant to find the solution to the world's energy problems, should be able to design an airtight demonstration of it, that the galloping gourmet can't dispute.
[Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.
Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a 4m long hose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwINedGR_Q It does look like the swedish's magzine video, NyTeknik, including the weird sounds, around 1200W: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SeOteFPtM What do you think?
