RE: [Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Axil—

Keep in mind that Bose particles are those with 0 or integer intrinsic spin , 
either + or -.   I think the theory for BEC allows for existence of a 
condensate of particles with different integer spin states.  Kim’s theory for 
LENR addresses such  a BEC I believe.

The collapse of a BEC which part of an entangled system—a metal lattice for 
example—may allow transfer of the potential energy of the BEC to the lattice 
phonic (kinetic-energy)  while conserving angular momentum.

Bob Cook
From: Axil Axil<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
To: vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

Correction

therefore decisive

should read

therefore destructive



On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
C12 is a boson and as such is LENR capable. C13 is a fermion and therefore 
decisive to the formation of a bose condensate of atoms. It is reasonable to 
expect that C12 will aid in the production of ultra dense hydrogen.

The same boson characteristic will support the use of lithium that has been 
enriched Li6 over the fermion Li7. All elements used to produce the LENR 
reaction should be a boson which includes hydrogen.


Hydrogen with non-zero spin will not participate in the LENR reaction whereas 
cooper pairs of protons will. Expect LENR reactions centered on pairs of 
protons with zero spin.



Also, as the LERN reaction matures and more NMR active isotopes accumulate, the 
LENR reactor will put out increasing levels or rf radiation derived from the 
nuclear vibrations of the NMR isotope.





This NMR thinking also applies to the nature of the various isotopes of 
hydrogen.



Molecular hydrogen occurs in two isomeric forms, one with its two proton spins 
aligned parallel (orthohydrogen), the other with its two proton spins aligned 
antiparallel (parahydrogen). At room temperature and thermal equilibrium, 
hydrogen consists of approximately 75% orthohydrogen and 25%  parahydrogen.





Orthohydrogen hydrogen has non zero spin, this is bad for Ni/H LENR because the 
non zero spin wastes magnetic energy by producing RF radiation.Parahydrogen 
hydrogen has zero spin. This is good for Ni/H LENR because this type of 
hydrogen is magnetically inactive.





This is a way to increase parahydrogen hydrogen by using a noble metal catalyst.



see



Catalytic process for ortho-para hydrogen conversion



http://www.google.com/patents/US3383176

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, JonesBeene 
<jone...@pacbell.net<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:
Here is a detail which came up earlier – the embedded proton concept works best 
in the context of the Mills’ “hydrino hydride” where the proton and two very 
tight electrons combine into a stable ion which replaces carbon’s innermost 
orbital electron. The innermost orbital of carbon would need to have a binding 
strength which is resonant with dense hydrogen in order to do this so Rydberg 
values come into play.

Holmlid, Mills, Miley, Mayer, Meulenberg and others who have written on the 
subject of dense hydrogen have different thinking on the details. They could 
all be partly correct with Mills being the most accurate for this detail (but 
he does not mention 13C).

The innermost carbon electron is bound at slightly less than 490 eV which is 
exactly the 18th Rydberg multiple… yet it is not clear how significant that 
detail is in the context of coal formation.

-

In prior thread, the premise was suggested that there are two different species 
(allotropes) of carbon which are being called carbon-13. One of the two species 
is the normal isotope with 7 neutrons, but the second is carbon-12 with a 
deeply embedded proton of UDH (the ultra-dense hydrogen) of Holmlid.

This result has happened with some types of carbon during the 100 million year 
formation process of decay from ancient vegetation under pressure in coal beds, 
especially anthracite and mineral graphite. This type of coal is often used to 
manufacture the kinds of graphite where physical anomalies have been witnessed.

Here is another piece of evidence which points to a thermal anomaly with carbon 
which could be explained with this hypothesis. (Thanks to Can for the link)

The Replication of an Experiment Which Produced Anomalous Excess 
Energy.pdf<https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/2910-the-replication-of-an-experiment-which-produced-anomalous-excess-energy-pdf/>
More on those details later…

Re: [Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

[Axil Axil]

Correction

therefore decisive

should read

therefore destructive



On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> C12 is a boson and as such is LENR capable. C13 is a fermion and therefore
> decisive to the formation of a bose condensate of atoms. It is reasonable
> to expect that C12 will aid in the production of ultra dense hydrogen.
>
> The same boson characteristic will support the use of lithium that has
> been enriched Li6 over the fermion Li7. All elements used to produce the
> LENR reaction should be a boson which includes hydrogen.
>
> *Hydrogen with non-zero spin will not participate in the LENR reaction
> whereas cooper pairs of protons will. Expect LENR reactions centered on
> pairs of protons with zero spin.*
>
>
>
> *Also, as the LERN reaction matures and more NMR active isotopes
> accumulate, the LENR reactor will put out increasing levels or rf radiation
> derived from the nuclear vibrations of the NMR isotope.*
>
>
>
>
>
> *This NMR thinking also applies to the nature of the various isotopes
> of hydrogen.*
>
>
>
> *Molecular hydrogen occurs in two isomeric forms, one with its two proton
> spins aligned parallel (orthohydrogen), the other with its two proton spins
> aligned antiparallel (parahydrogen). At room temperature and thermal
> equilibrium, hydrogen consists of approximately 75% orthohydrogen and
> 25%  parahydrogen.*
>
>
>
>
>
> *Orthohydrogen hydrogen has non zero spin, this is bad for Ni/H LENR
> because the non zero spin wastes magnetic energy by producing RF
> radiation.Parahydrogen hydrogen has zero spin. This is good for Ni/H LENR
> because this type of hydrogen is magnetically inactive.*
>
>
>
>
>
> *This is a way to increase parahydrogen hydrogen by using a noble metal
> catalyst.*
>
>
>
> *see*
>
>
>
> *Catalytic process for ortho-para hydrogen conversion*
>
>
>
> *http://www.google.com/patents/US3383176
> *
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>> Here is a detail which came up earlier – the embedded proton concept
>> works best in the context of the Mills’ “hydrino hydride” where the proton
>> and two very tight electrons combine into a stable ion which replaces
>> carbon’s innermost orbital electron. The innermost orbital of carbon would
>> need to have a binding strength which is resonant with dense hydrogen in
>> order to do this so Rydberg values come into play.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holmlid, Mills, Miley, Mayer, Meulenberg and others who have written on
>> the subject of dense hydrogen have different thinking on the details. They
>> could all be partly correct with Mills being the most accurate for this
>> detail (but he does not mention 13C).
>>
>>
>>
>> The innermost carbon electron is bound at slightly less than 490 eV which
>> is exactly the 18th Rydberg multiple… yet it is not clear how
>> significant that detail is in the context of coal formation.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>> In prior thread, the premise was suggested that there are two different
>> species (allotropes) of carbon which are being called carbon-13. One of the
>> two species is the normal isotope with 7 neutrons, but the second is
>> carbon-12 with a deeply embedded proton of UDH (the ultra-dense hydrogen)
>> of Holmlid.
>>
>>
>>
>> This result has happened with some types of carbon during the 100 million
>> year formation process of decay from ancient vegetation under pressure in
>> coal beds, especially anthracite and mineral graphite. This type of coal is
>> often used to manufacture the kinds of graphite where physical anomalies
>> have been witnessed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is another piece of evidence which points to a thermal anomaly with
>> carbon which could be explained with this hypothesis. (Thanks to Can for
>> the link)
>>
>> The Replication of an Experiment Which Produced Anomalous Excess
>> Energy.pdf
>> 
>>
>> More on those details later…
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

[Axil Axil]

C12 is a boson and as such is LENR capable. C13 is a fermion and therefore
decisive to the formation of a bose condensate of atoms. It is reasonable
to expect that C12 will aid in the production of ultra dense hydrogen.

The same boson characteristic will support the use of lithium that has been
enriched Li6 over the fermion Li7. All elements used to produce the LENR
reaction should be a boson which includes hydrogen.

*Hydrogen with non-zero spin will not participate in the LENR reaction
whereas cooper pairs of protons will. Expect LENR reactions centered on
pairs of protons with zero spin.*



*Also, as the LERN reaction matures and more NMR active isotopes
accumulate, the LENR reactor will put out increasing levels or rf radiation
derived from the nuclear vibrations of the NMR isotope.*





*This NMR thinking also applies to the nature of the various isotopes
of hydrogen.*



*Molecular hydrogen occurs in two isomeric forms, one with its two proton
spins aligned parallel (orthohydrogen), the other with its two proton spins
aligned antiparallel (parahydrogen). At room temperature and thermal
equilibrium, hydrogen consists of approximately 75% orthohydrogen and
25%  parahydrogen.*





*Orthohydrogen hydrogen has non zero spin, this is bad for Ni/H LENR
because the non zero spin wastes magnetic energy by producing RF
radiation.Parahydrogen hydrogen has zero spin. This is good for Ni/H LENR
because this type of hydrogen is magnetically inactive.*





*This is a way to increase parahydrogen hydrogen by using a noble metal
catalyst.*



*see*



*Catalytic process for ortho-para hydrogen conversion*



*http://www.google.com/patents/US3383176
*

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, JonesBeene  wrote:

> Here is a detail which came up earlier – the embedded proton concept works
> best in the context of the Mills’ “hydrino hydride” where the proton and
> two very tight electrons combine into a stable ion which replaces carbon’s
> innermost orbital electron. The innermost orbital of carbon would need to
> have a binding strength which is resonant with dense hydrogen in order to
> do this so Rydberg values come into play.
>
>
>
> Holmlid, Mills, Miley, Mayer, Meulenberg and others who have written on
> the subject of dense hydrogen have different thinking on the details. They
> could all be partly correct with Mills being the most accurate for this
> detail (but he does not mention 13C).
>
>
>
> The innermost carbon electron is bound at slightly less than 490 eV which
> is exactly the 18th Rydberg multiple… yet it is not clear how significant
> that detail is in the context of coal formation.
>
>
>
> -
>
>
>
> In prior thread, the premise was suggested that there are two different
> species (allotropes) of carbon which are being called carbon-13. One of the
> two species is the normal isotope with 7 neutrons, but the second is
> carbon-12 with a deeply embedded proton of UDH (the ultra-dense hydrogen)
> of Holmlid.
>
>
>
> This result has happened with some types of carbon during the 100 million
> year formation process of decay from ancient vegetation under pressure in
> coal beds, especially anthracite and mineral graphite. This type of coal is
> often used to manufacture the kinds of graphite where physical anomalies
> have been witnessed.
>
>
>
> Here is another piece of evidence which points to a thermal anomaly with
> carbon which could be explained with this hypothesis. (Thanks to Can for
> the link)
>
> The Replication of an Experiment Which Produced Anomalous Excess Energy.pdf
> 
>
> More on those details later…
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

[JonesBeene]

Here is a detail which came up earlier – the embedded proton concept works best 
in the context of the Mills’ “hydrino hydride” where the proton and two very 
tight electrons combine into a stable ion which replaces carbon’s innermost 
orbital electron. The innermost orbital of carbon would need to have a binding 
strength which is resonant with dense hydrogen in order to do this so Rydberg 
values come into play.

Holmlid, Mills, Miley, Mayer, Meulenberg and others who have written on the 
subject of dense hydrogen have different thinking on the details. They could 
all be partly correct with Mills being the most accurate for this detail (but 
he does not mention 13C).

The innermost carbon electron is bound at slightly less than 490 eV which is 
exactly the 18th Rydberg multiple… yet it is not clear how significant that 
detail is in the context of coal formation.

-

In prior thread, the premise was suggested that there are two different species 
(allotropes) of carbon which are being called carbon-13. One of the two species 
is the normal isotope with 7 neutrons, but the second is carbon-12 with a 
deeply embedded proton of UDH (the ultra-dense hydrogen) of Holmlid. 

This result has happened with some types of carbon during the 100 million year 
formation process of decay from ancient vegetation under pressure in coal beds, 
especially anthracite and mineral graphite. This type of coal is often used to 
manufacture the kinds of graphite where physical anomalies have been witnessed. 

Here is another piece of evidence which points to a thermal anomaly with carbon 
which could be explained with this hypothesis. (Thanks to Can for the link)
The Replication of an Experiment Which Produced Anomalous Excess Energy.pdf
More on those details later…

[Vo]:RE: f13C or faux13C

[JonesBeene]

In prior thread, the premise was suggested that there are two different species 
(allotropes) of carbon which are being called carbon-13. One of the two species 
is the normal isotope with 7 neutrons, but the second is carbon-12 with a 
deeply embedded proton of UDH (the ultra-dense hydrogen) of Holmlid. 

This result has happened with some types of carbon during the 100 million year 
formation process of decay from ancient vegetation under pressure in coal beds, 
especially anthracite and mineral graphite. This type of coal is often used to 
manufacture the kinds of graphite where physical anomalies have been witnessed. 

Here is another piece of evidence which points to a thermal anomaly with carbon 
which could be explained with this hypothesis. (Thanks to Can for the link)
The Replication of an Experiment Which Produced Anomalous Excess Energy.pdf
More on those details later…



Here is a premise which may be worth consideration, even if the evidence for it 
is not yet certain and the details are fluid. After all, this is vortex – not 
Fusion Technology… plus… the proposition is falsifiable, should it gather any 
traction.

The premise involves the isotope carbon-13 and its abundance/identity. Standard 
physics says that 13C is 1.1% of all carbon. However, in fossils the ratio can 
range from as high as 5% to almost neglible. This shouldn’t happen with a true 
isotope. Likewise many plants either exclude it via fractionation or else 
exploit it (as they have vastly different signatures). Anomalies of 13C are 
also huge in meteorites –larger than other common elements such as iron. This 
variability of isotope ratios is problematic but has been “kept in the closet” 
so to speak - since one technique for dating of fossils depends on the 
assumption of a steady ratio.

The present premise - which attempts to explain the isotope anomalies and other 
oddities of carbon (esp magnetic) is that some of the apparent 13C in nature is 
not really an isotope at all - but instead is normal 12C plus UDH tightly bound 
as a unit – to be explained. If even a few ppm were not isotopic, then among 
other things, the economics of coal and coal cleaning become favorable.

The work of Leif Holmlid and others has suggested the possibility of a very 
dense form of hydrogen labeled as UDH or ultradense hydrogen. The hydrogen 
isomer could act more like a neutron in properties than atomic hydrogen and has 
been called a “virtual neutron.” In a departure from Holmlid, Miley has 
suggested that a version of this species is inverted and mobile as a single 
neutron-like unit instead of as a cluster. Then… there is Mills who has a 
charged version with an extra electron. All of these views can be merged.

The lifetime of this species could be very long. The compact spatial dimension 
would indicate that UDH could “nest” in the inner orbital of a few host low Z 
atoms of the proper IP resonance. UDH- (aka hydrino hydride) when bound as 13C 
would increase by only one part in 100,000 the dimensions of a carbon atom, and 
would not drastically affect the redox chemistry of the host. The host atoms 
would have a measured mass increase of 1 AMU. 

Thus a measureable mass difference (deficit) exists between this faux-13C and 
true 13C to provide a way to validate or falsify this suggestion. 
Falsifiability is most important if this is to gain traction.

When hydrogen is densified catalytically into UDH – which would be expected 
under the parameters of coal formation for instance… decaying vegetation 
provides all the ingredients, even the iron oxide catalyst. A new type of 
compressed molecular species becomes what is measured as 13C. Thus, we have a 
natural process, aided by a catalyst (iron oxide)which would present a tight 
molecule of supposed AMU 13 which would not be broken by normal ionization in a 
mass spectrometer (although other electrons would ionize). The UDH- would be 
bound at ~490 eV. 

It might be possible to harvest the "faux-13C” (f13C) from crushed coal using 
magnetic (diamagnetic) separation of coal nano-powder. The f13C could have very 
valuable properties due to the potential energy of the UDH. 

One aim of this – if you haven’t guessed it, is to find a both a additional 
source of LENR energy and also a way to justify the cost of extreme 
nano-cleaning of coal… rather the BS we hear from the coal industry about 
“clean coal”.