Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
The Abstract of the paper characterises this instrument as a large bandwidth three-phase power analyzer. I'm not seeing that. However, it also says The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the E-CatHT . In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input. That implies that there's no problem with the input power measurement, does it not? The only way out is for someone to flip a magic switch between calibration and measurement runs, such that extra power was input during the measurement run; power that was invisible to this meter (HF or DC). That's too bizarre to contemplate. All it would take would be for one of the Italians to casually walk around the back of the big blue box and surreptitiously do that. Of course, it's not an accusation, Terry :) - it's simply a possibility. p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. p16 states: The clamp ammeters were connected upstream from the control box to ensure the trustworthiness of the measurements performed, and to produce a non-falsifiable document (the video recording) of the measurements themselves. I assume that means on the wall power side. The way this is phrased is suspect to me, because the wording is so vague and ambiguous. It doesn't seem to be worthy of a scientist. Best, Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem User manual is at : http://www.industrial-needs.com/manual/power-anlayser-pce-830.pdf Again, no mention of DC. - Original Message - From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
They will do a 6 months test. And do not forget the dummy, which showed coherence with the measured input in the IR picture. There must be a circuit inside there, which is shut off/on with the presence of the power and resists up to 1000C. 2013/5/22 Andrew andrew...@att.net ** I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:11 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** The Abstract of the paper characterises this instrument as a large bandwidth three-phase power analyzer. I'm not seeing that. However, it also says The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the *E-CatHT . *In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input. That implies that there's no problem with the input power measurement, does it not? The only way out is for someone to flip a magic switch between calibration and measurement runs, such that extra power was input during the measurement run; power that was invisible to this meter (HF or DC). That's too bizarre to contemplate. All it would take would be for one of the Italians to casually walk around the back of the big blue box and surreptitiously do that. Of course, it's not an accusation, Terry :) - it's simply a possibility. p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. Two issues: 1) If batteries were inside the box, the box would get quite warm. 2) Did he use battery power to make the first test over heat in November? Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. You mean fig 6 ? Also shown in Fig 4. The big blue box at the back are the closed doors of the shipping container. On the left of the picture you can see a small blue-and-yellow control box, and three larger black-and yellow boxes with grills. Those are about the right size for multi-kW Triacs. (Do you admit that there ARE triacs, or do you think they've been replaced with 100-hour 4 kW batteries?) The blue and yellow control box is maybe 8 x 10 x 4 inches (wild guess). Incidentally, ALL the equipment seems to go into one power socket. All those laptops and stuff are going to LOVE that huge DC and RF fake power.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** My sense is that Rossi forbade them using a scope on the power feed in order to protect proprietary drive waveform information. This makes no sense. They measured the power going into the power supply. How could they see the waveform there? - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
The power measurements carried by the Levi's team is at least poorly reported, or worst poorly done. As said before the power consumption they computed in the report is not convincing at all. There was no check (reported at least, or worst not done) of the quality of the electrical wall plug! There are ways there to fool the electrical power seen by the observer with the PCE-830. I'm not saying that Rossi scammed. Just that there, we have a huge flaw. I hope Levi's team will give us more details about this topic. _ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 22 mai 2013 20:40 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: My sense is that Rossi forbade them using a scope on the power feed in order to protect proprietary drive waveform information. This makes no sense. They measured the power going into the power supply. How could they see the waveform there? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Although my point about Why off limits? stands, I thank you for the correction. As a general comment, it is quite possible to be a good physicist and a fairly lousy electrical engineer. Comments posted here about 3-phase plus ground power have not yet been addressed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. You mean fig 6 ? Also shown in Fig 4. The big blue box at the back are the closed doors of the shipping container. On the left of the picture you can see a small blue-and-yellow control box, and three larger black-and yellow boxes with grills. Those are about the right size for multi-kW Triacs. (Do you admit that there ARE triacs, or do you think they've been replaced with 100-hour 4 kW batteries?) The blue and yellow control box is maybe 8 x 10 x 4 inches (wild guess). Incidentally, ALL the equipment seems to go into one power socket. All those laptops and stuff are going to LOVE that huge DC and RF fake power.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? Andrew - Original Message - From: Andrew andrew...@att.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem Although my point about Why off limits? stands, I thank you for the correction. As a general comment, it is quite possible to be a good physicist and a fairly lousy electrical engineer. Comments posted here about 3-phase plus ground power have not yet been addressed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. You mean fig 6 ? Also shown in Fig 4. The big blue box at the back are the closed doors of the shipping container. On the left of the picture you can see a small blue-and-yellow control box, and three larger black-and yellow boxes with grills. Those are about the right size for multi-kW Triacs. (Do you admit that there ARE triacs, or do you think they've been replaced with 100-hour 4 kW batteries?) The blue and yellow control box is maybe 8 x 10 x 4 inches (wild guess). Incidentally, ALL the equipment seems to go into one power socket. All those laptops and stuff are going to LOVE that huge DC and RF fake power.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? Andrew https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/15110_527605050624097_1103672604_n.jpg Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:47:42 PM One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? It (singular) contains the 1MW warm-cat, before it was shipped. One of the pictures shows the doors open. Even if it wasn't (gee... maybe it contains an energy teleporter to heat the hot cat???) there are multiple shots showing bare floor between the hotcat test stand and the rest of the area. The only cables go to the wooden test bench. ps : so Rossi could have hidden wires under the concrete, feeding into the metal stand and to hence to the secret connectors on the hotcats. (Never mind that the ceramic outer layer maybe doesn't conduct too well). Oh, and that to provide THERMAL insulation there is a fiberglass pad between the hotcat and the frame. You can see it in at least one of the pictures. ps : No need to copy the ENTIRE post when replying.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
I was thinking more along the lines of near-field heating using an RF source and lots of batteries. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:47:42 PM One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? It (singular) contains the 1MW warm-cat, before it was shipped. One of the pictures shows the doors open. Even if it wasn't (gee... maybe it contains an energy teleporter to heat the hot cat???) there are multiple shots showing bare floor between the hotcat test stand and the rest of the area. The only cables go to the wooden test bench. ps : so Rossi could have hidden wires under the concrete, feeding into the metal stand and to hence to the secret connectors on the hotcats. (Never mind that the ceramic outer layer maybe doesn't conduct too well). Oh, and that to provide THERMAL insulation there is a fiberglass pad between the hotcat and the frame. You can see it in at least one of the pictures. ps : No need to copy the ENTIRE post when replying.
RE: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Andrew, At least give us some idea of how they would be used, or what could be inside, that Rossi could use to carry out the fraud? They are steel, and thus form a Faraday cage as does the steel cylinder which houses the reactor core, so no way RF or IR laser could be used to remotely heat up the reactor. What other means of getting energy to the reactor is there using these shipping containers? Ultrasound? -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Andrew [mailto:andrew...@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? Andrew - Original Message - From: Andrew andrew...@att.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem Although my point about Why off limits? stands, I thank you for the correction. As a general comment, it is quite possible to be a good physicist and a fairly lousy electrical engineer. Comments posted here about 3-phase plus ground power have not yet been addressed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. You mean fig 6 ? Also shown in Fig 4. The big blue box at the back are the closed doors of the shipping container. On the left of the picture you can see a small blue-and-yellow control box, and three larger black-and yellow boxes with grills. Those are about the right size for multi-kW Triacs. (Do you admit that there ARE triacs, or do you think they've been replaced with 100-hour 4 kW batteries?) The blue and yellow control box is maybe 8 x 10 x 4 inches (wild guess). Incidentally, ALL the equipment seems to go into one power socket. All those laptops and stuff are going to LOVE that huge DC and RF fake power.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
I just wondered if they were verified to be empty. I ask because the report makes no mention of this (among other things). Obviously the Faraday cage argument is sound, so some tricky mods would be necessary. I realise this sounds far-fetched, but I am addressing all the loopholes I can think of. It's just the way I think. Andrew - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem Andrew, At least give us some idea of how they would be used, or what could be inside, that Rossi could use to carry out the fraud? They are steel, and thus form a Faraday cage as does the steel cylinder which houses the reactor core, so no way RF or IR laser could be used to remotely heat up the reactor. What other means of getting energy to the reactor is there using these shipping containers? Ultrasound? -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Andrew [mailto:andrew...@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem One more question to be settled: Were those very proximate shipping containers inspected and found to be empty? Andrew - Original Message - From: Andrew andrew...@att.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem Although my point about Why off limits? stands, I thank you for the correction. As a general comment, it is quite possible to be a good physicist and a fairly lousy electrical engineer. Comments posted here about 3-phase plus ground power have not yet been addressed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem p15 states: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret. I find it hard to believe that simply viewing the contents of a box would be off limits. Perhaps it contained 100 Kg of batteries, which is roughly sufficient to produce 500 W for 116 hours. Look at the two huge blue boxes in Fig. 16. Why would they be off-limits? You can guess the nature of a proprietary waveform by looking into a box? This really stinks. You mean fig 6 ? Also shown in Fig 4. The big blue box at the back are the closed doors of the shipping container. On the left of the picture you can see a small blue-and-yellow control box, and three larger black-and yellow boxes with grills. Those are about the right size for multi-kW Triacs. (Do you admit that there ARE triacs, or do you think they've been replaced with 100-hour 4 kW batteries?) The blue and yellow control box is maybe 8 x 10 x 4 inches (wild guess). Incidentally, ALL the equipment seems to go into one power socket. All those laptops and stuff are going to LOVE that huge DC and RF fake power.
[Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the Optris PI160 Thermal Imager: http://www.optris.com/thermal-imager-pi160 - Mark
[Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer : http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm - Mark
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Interesting. To quote from the spec Frequency range in automatic mode 45 to 65Hz / 0.1Hz / 0.1Hz The frequency characteristics of the probes is unknown, but presumably they match this roughly. Andrew - Original Message - From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15 PM Subject: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer : http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm - Mark
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
The meter appears to have important limitations. We need to see data showing the actual input waveform in real time in order to be confident that the measurements are accurate. I assume that the scientists performed this test during their evaluation. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 11:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Daniel Rocha wrote: They tested a dummy device, that is, an empty reactor, which showed a supposedly correct IR emission. The input was the same. and this is important here. I'm not done thinking about this. Let's say that there's a covert HF power feed, for example. For Daniel's statement to make sense simultaneously in this case, somebody would need to creep about and flip a secret switch. That's too rich a conspiracy for my blood. Andrew - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem The meter appears to have important limitations. We need to see data showing the actual input waveform in real time in order to be confident that the measurements are accurate. I assume that the scientists performed this test during their evaluation. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 11:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
User manual is at : http://www.industrial-needs.com/manual/power-anlayser-pce-830.pdf Again, no mention of DC. - Original Message - From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
My sense is that Rossi forbade them using a scope on the power feed in order to protect proprietary drive waveform information. I really need to re-read that paper now. If they were only allowed to use this power meter, all sorts of shenanigans might be possible. Only theoretically of course :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem User manual is at : http://www.industrial-needs.com/manual/power-anlayser-pce-830.pdf Again, no mention of DC. - Original Message - From: Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:15:19 PM FYI (To anyone): Here's a link to Info on the PCE Instruments PCE-830-1 Power Analyzer http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm Oh-oh no mention of DC at all. That Bryce fellow is going to have a field day!
