Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
About the numbers: Produced E-cats up to now ~ 170? E-cats for the 1MW plant as of today ~ 150? During school holidays, from 1957 to 1968, he worked with his father Luigi in his machine-shop, specialized in metal carpentry. He learns how to use all the major carpentry machines (welding machines, lathes, benders, shears, etc…). He learns to design and build many kind of machines and to organize the work in the factory. from: http://ingandrearossi.net/gli-inizi/ So is Rossi doing all the welding of those copper tubes and the steel chamber by himself? 2011/5/5 Andrea Selva andreagiuseppe.se...@gmail.com: A bit of humor: Can we believe that e-cats come from North Pole Santa's factory and are made one by one with the tiny and efficient hands of his little elves ? 2011/5/5 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net From: Jed Rothwell I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced… If Rossi does not have a group, he is doing an inhuman amount of work. … (cough, cough) … and you can really believe any of Rossi’s BS ! LOL It’s all like this.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
From Akira: Hasn't Rossi stated a few times over the past months that his reactors can reach temperatures able to melt nickel? 1,600 °C is most probably the internal temperature reached during a controlled meltdown, anyway. Yes, I agree. This should be old news insofar as the Vort Collective goes. I believe Rossi mentioned a few accidental meltdown/runaways earlier in the development cycle. It's probably documented in his journal, if anyone wants to go wading through some of the earlier passages. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Hi, On 5-5-2011 0:37, Jed Rothwell wrote: I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced. I seem to recall that Rossi mentioned he had a retired elderly engineer working for him building these reactors. Kind regards, MoB
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Man on Bridges wrote: I seem to recall that Rossi mentioned he had a retired elderly engineer working for him building these reactors. Not the reactors, the nickel catalyst powder. I sure hope he has another source by now! Inventors and discoverers are hostage to their suppliers and co-workers. Rossi's nightmare experiences with thermoelectric chips illustrates this. He cannot do everything himself. He has to depend on other people's skills, and these other people sometimes do not know how to reproduce their own work. Thus, Rossi worked for years on thermoelectric chips and then saw all the work go for nothing because it turned out others cannot do what he hoped they could do -- and he does not have the skills to do it all himself, any more than Edison could have mastered glass-blowing enough to invent the light bulb. Edison was forced to depend on Bohm, and Bohm often failed. Jones Beene imagines Rossi wasted years and dollars doing this for some nefarious reason. Outside of hot fusion, I have never met a scientist or inventor who works just to earn the grant money. They do RD in order to accomplish a result -- to make a product. Especially for an inventor, the grant money is a pittance compared to the profit if they succeed. They often fail, but it is never because they want to rip off the grant agency. It is because nature does not cooperate, and they do not know enough to succeed. It is never their intention to fail. Rossi has failed many times, of course. Any real inventor or scientist who does work of consequence will have failed far more often than he succeeded. - Jed
[Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Interview with Rossi: http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/radio24_audio/2011/110504-mrkilowatt the only news is that he tells that the working E-cat number has arrived to 147 as a side note, he says that while being interviewed he is in his Bologna lab experimenting new combinations of catalysts. mic
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Michele Comitini wrote: the only news is that he tells that the working E-cat number has arrived to 147 Someone is fabricating them at a furious rate. Surely he is not making that many himself. At this rate he will have enough for the 1 MW reactor soon. Let's see . . . he reported: 97 some time ago. Not sure when, or how many were in the lab being lined up for the 1 MW reactor. 105 on May 1, 2011 (http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=6#comment-36179) 147 today, May 4, 2011 That's 42 new ones in 3 days. 14 per day. On the other hand, perhaps a batch of 42 of them arrived today, and there will not be another batch for several weeks. He needs ~300. About 150 more. If the rate is ~14/day he will have them in a few more weeks. Of course there are a million other problems to deal with when ganging them up together. It isn't just a matter of getting 300 units and sticking them together with Velcro. (Velco is what Google uses to assemble their supercomputers. That tells you people who develop technology other than computers feel jealousy and contempt for computer engineers. As a guy from GM said back in 1975: Stop telling me about the wonders of computer chips! I could make a million tiny cars, but what good would they do?!) I hope the new ones look better than the mini-Rossi cells tested by EK and Lewan. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Assuming some E-Cats are reserved for changeout, that means ~7KW/E-Cat (1MW/140). Does this mean that he is NOT satisfied with the kitty-cat (2.5KW), and it going back to a slightly larger reactor? Or has he been able to push the output up higher? Or a bit of both? -Mark -Original Message- From: Michele Comitini [mailto:michele.comit...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 2:44 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA] Interview with Rossi: http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/radio24_audio/2011/110504-mrkilowatt the only news is that he tells that the working E-cat number has arrived to 147 as a side note, he says that while being interviewed he is in his Bologna lab experimenting new combinations of catalysts. mic
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
I meant to say that tells you WHY people who develop technology other than computers feel jealousy and contempt for computer engineers. Oh, and they do, too -- trust me. Maybe not so much nowadays, but they did in the go-go days of CPU development 1975 to 1995. It is a shame we cannot edit these messages. Especially me. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 04 May 2011 18:14:14 -0400: Hi, [snip] On the other hand, perhaps a batch of 42 of them arrived today I don't think they are being manufactured somewhere. That's what Defkalion is going to do, and it isn't running yet. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Does this mean that he is NOT satisfied with the kitty-cat (2.5KW), and it going back to a slightly larger reactor? I believe the kitty-cat tested by Lewan is exactly the same reactor that EK tested the other day, at ~4 kW. It has a 50 ml cell. I believe Lewan and Rossi took off the insulation, removed the chimney, wrapped new insulation around it, and ran it at somewhat lower power. Also higher input. Maybe the chimney improves efficiency?! Who knows. Based on the tests in December and January done by Levi et al., I have the impression that the things work better some days than others, and that input power varies, for reasons I cannot guess. This is not a bit surprising for a crude prototype machine. If any other cold fusion researcher got this level of reproducibility and control, he might think he had died and gone to heaven, but Rossi seemed kind of disturbed, or preoccupied, in Lewan's video. I don't read minds, but here is what I guess he was thinking to himself: If I'm putting in 300 W and getting out a lousy 2.5 kW, how am I ever going to make 300 of these things to play together nicely and produce 1 MW reliably, without blowing off the roof like the Fukushima reactor. That's sure as heck what I would be thinking! The performance in these demonstrations has been phenomenal. Nothing close to this has ever been done in the history of cold fusion. However, in my opinion, it is not good enough to scale up to a 1 MW reactor, and October is five minutes away on the timescale it takes to engineer such things. If Rossi pulls this off it will be the fastest RD since the Manhattan project. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 4 May 2011 18:29:37 -0400: Hi, [snip] If I'm putting in 300 W and getting out a lousy 2.5 kW, how am I ever going to make 300 of these things to play together nicely and produce 1 MW reliably, without blowing off the roof like the Fukushima reactor. ..note that 2.5 kW / 300 W ~= 8, which is what he claims to be aiming for. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
From: Jed Rothwell I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced. If Rossi does not have a group, he is doing an inhuman amount of work. . (cough, cough) . and you can really believe any of Rossi's BS ! LOL It's all like this.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
330 E-cat needed for 1MW plant 2011/5/4 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't think they are being manufactured somewhere. That's what Defkalion is going to do, and it isn't running yet. Well, they are being fabricated, if not mass produced. Someone is doing that somewhere, at Rossi's expense. I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced. In the most famous example of trial and error inventing, Edison make dozens or hundreds of prototype incandescent lights in 1879. But he himself did not actually fabricate all those lights. He wasn't working by himself. He had lots of ambitious people on staff, such as an expert glassblower from Germany, Bohm. When a bulb shattered -- which was several times a day -- people would shout Shit! Busted by Bohm! It was a group effort, with typical group dynamics such as you find in any start-up company today. If Rossi does not have a group, he is doing an inhuman amount of work. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 4 May 2011 18:37:53 -0400: Hi, [snip] I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced. If the parts are being produced by someone else to his specs, then it's quite possible for him to assemble them himself (as he says he is doing), but I don't rule out that he has help. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced. Whoever it is, they are not very good from the looks of the soldering on the EKits. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: … (cough, cough) … and you can really believe any of Rossi’s BS ! LOL Well, if he is not doing this, he will not meet the deadline. Why do you find it so hard to believe, and such bullshit, to imagine that a group of people in a small factory may be cranking out 14 objects of this size per day? It would be a huge amount of work for one person, but 5 or 10 could do it easily, with ordinary power tools and fabrication techniques. You can see it does not call for high-precision manufacturing. I have worked in factories without much automation making objects roughly about as complex as this (for X-acto and others). 5 or 10 skilled people could do it. With automated modern equipment, 5 people could make hundreds a day. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Jed asks you not to rub it in - the fact that Rossi's current goal is a lot closer to my estimated COP of 10, than it is to his prediction -- anywhere from 35 to infinity ... It's all about the wet steam :) -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com In reply to Jed Rothwell's message: Hi, If I'm putting in 300 W and getting out a lousy 2.5 kW, how am I ever going to make 300 of these things to play together nicely and produce 1 MW reliably, without blowing off the roof like the Fukushima reactor. ..note that 2.5 kW / 300 W ~= 8, which is what he claims to be aiming for. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: If the parts are being produced by someone else to his specs, then it's quite possible for him to assemble them himself (as he says he is doing), but I don't rule out that he has help. Sure. Having the parts delivered and then assembling them is more-or-less the same as having a staff of people fabricate the whole thing. At a bicycle store, one or two people can assemble 4 or 5 bicycles a day, because they come out of the box mostly ready. Making one from scratch takes weeks. (The ones they make from scratch are gorgeous and cost thousands of bucks.) I expect the only problematic ingredient is the nickel catalyst inside the cell. The rest of the parts can be cut and fabricated by many people, fairly easily. It shouldn't cost much. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Jones Beene wrote: Jed asks you not to rub it in - the fact that Rossi's current goal is a lot closer to my estimated COP of 10, than it is to his prediction -- anywhere from 35 to infinity ... You are not rubbing it in because I miss your point. What do you mean current goal? Are you referring to the size or power of the devices? Presently 4 kW. He keeps scaling them down. He says that is safer. At 4 kW he needs 250 for 1 MW, but he is adding 50 more to act as on-line replacement (backup) units. It's all about the wet steam Perhaps you are attempting to rub in your assertion that the input to output ratio is much lower than Rossi claims. He hasn't said that, or admitted it. In the Lewan tests it was very low but the gadget did not seem to be working well that day. In other recent tests it has been as high as ever. Assuming the calorimetry right (which you do not assume -- realize) there is no indication the input to output ratio is degrading. It just varies all over the place. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Italian transcription: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/di-nuovo-lingegner-rossi-mr-kilowat-i.html mic 2011/5/4 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Jones Beene wrote: Jed asks you not to rub it in - the fact that Rossi's current goal is a lot closer to my estimated COP of 10, than it is to his prediction -- anywhere from 35 to infinity ... You are not rubbing it in because I miss your point. What do you mean current goal? Are you referring to the size or power of the devices? Presently 4 kW. He keeps scaling them down. He says that is safer. At 4 kW he needs 250 for 1 MW, but he is adding 50 more to act as on-line replacement (backup) units. It's all about the wet steam Perhaps you are attempting to rub in your assertion that the input to output ratio is much lower than Rossi claims. He hasn't said that, or admitted it. In the Lewan tests it was very low but the gadget did not seem to be working well that day. In other recent tests it has been as high as ever. Assuming the calorimetry right (which you do not assume -- realize) there is no indication the input to output ratio is degrading. It just varies all over the place. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Guys. You missed this one. Ivan Mellen May 3rd, 2011 at 6:49 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=7#comment-36613 Mr. Rossi, ……. I have two questions: a) How close to the nickel melting point (1455 C) can reactor temperature be? (This is important for rocket engine efficiency.) b) If output power is significantly reduced, is refueling period extended proportionally? (This has impact on the long term system heating.) Andrea Rossi May 4th, 2011 at 1:05 AMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=7#comment-36670 …….. About your questions: a- the temp inside the reactor reached the 1,600 °C b- yes Warm Regards, A.R. The catalyst can sustain heat beyond the melting point of nickel. He must be using nickel oxide to sustain 1600C. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2011-05-05 00:14, Jed Rothwell wrote: 97 some time ago. Not sure when, or how many were in the lab being lined up for the 1 MW reactor. 105 on May 1, 2011 (http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=6#comment-36179) 147 today, May 4, 2011 Add this. Discrepancy? * * * http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=7#comment-36695 Andrea Rossi May 4th, 2011 at 5:06 AM Dear Luke Mortensen: 1- up to now we have in operation 170 modules of the 300 that will compound the 1 MW plant. 2- Thank you: You cannot imagine how much in this moment I need moral sustain. Warm regards, A.R. * * * Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: a- the temp inside the reactor reached the 1,600 °C ANOTHER mind-boggling claim. I can understand why Beene gets so worked up by stuff like this. This has to be uppermost limit for an oxide, just before it melts and stops working completely. Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Nickel(II) oxide(NiO) – melting point 1955C. If the reaction takes place in Relativistic Casimir Cavities, the NiO catalyst would be degraded in terms of performance at 1600C because these Cavities would be annealed (starting to melt over). On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: a- the temp inside the reactor reached the 1,600 °C ANOTHER mind-boggling claim. I can understand why Beene gets so worked up by stuff like this. This has to be uppermost limit for an oxide, just before it melts and stops working completely. Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
On 2011-05-05 02:43, Jed Rothwell wrote: ANOTHER mind-boggling claim. I can understand why Beene gets so worked up by stuff like this. This has to be uppermost limit for an oxide, just before it melts and stops working completely. Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. Hasn't Rossi stated a few times over the past months that his reactors can reach temperatures able to melt nickel? 1,600 °C is most probably the internal temperature reached during a controlled meltdown, anyway. Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
Jed wrote: Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. I thought the guy on the Dos Equis commercial was the most interesting man in the world... He's not going to be happy about being #2! Stay Thirsty My Friends? No way, time for a perfect manhattan! -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
The device was working great. The 50cc units are officially rated at 2.5 kilowatts. He was probably trying to keep them at their official rating for the test. I think it is much harder to keep the power output at the official rating than it is to let the power output spike and go into self sustain mode. From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:08:58 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA] Jones Beene wrote: Jed asks you not to rub it in - the fact that Rossi's current goal is a lot closer to my estimated COP of 10, than it is to his prediction -- anywhere from 35 to infinity ... You are not rubbing it in because I miss your point. What do you mean current goal? Are you referring to the size or power of the devices? Presently 4 kW. He keeps scaling them down. He says that is safer. At 4 kW he needs 250 for 1 MW, but he is adding 50 more to act as on-line replacement (backup) units. It's all about the wet steam Perhaps you are attempting to rub in your assertion that the input to output ratio is much lower than Rossi claims. He hasn't said that, or admitted it. In the Lewan tests it was very low but the gadget did not seem to be working well that day. In other recent tests it has been as high as ever. Assuming the calorimetry right (which you do not assume -- realize) there is no indication the input to output ratio is degrading. It just varies all over the place. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
LOL !!! If you are into LENR, Rossi is definitely the guy (of the moment) and the most interesting man in the world from our narrow perspective. BTW, I was not aware of this ad campaign, way-cool. But I did live for a while in Mexico, long time ago in San Miguel de Allende ... and can attest that this company does brew the 5-6 out of 10 of the best beers in N. America... with the Canadians having two of the other 4-5 ... good thing we have Sam Adams ... ... not that you asked for another fringe opinion. And BTW I gave up beer about the time Rossi got out of the hoosegow ... Jones From: Mark Iverson Jed wrote: Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. I thought the guy on the Dos Equis commercial was the most interesting man in the world... He's not going to be happy about being #2! Stay Thirsty My Friends? No way, time for a perfect manhattan! -Mark attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
With all the challenges that the current economic climate poses, and the frustrations that PhDs can't seem to do at least one test that satisfies all those on Vortex, one has to take time to just have some fun... I'm grateful for all the intellects and souls on this forum... be well, and don't forget to laugh! And yes, thank fav diety for Sam Adams... both of them! Jones: dealing with Jed just might make you take up the brew again! :-) -Mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 6:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA] LOL !!! If you are into LENR, Rossi is definitely the guy (of the moment) and the most interesting man in the world from our narrow perspective. BTW, I was not aware of this ad campaign, way-cool. But I did live for a while in Mexico, long time ago in San Miguel de Allende ... and can attest that this company does brew the 5-6 out of 10 of the best beers in N. America... with the Canadians having two of the other 4-5 ... good thing we have Sam Adams ... ... not that you asked for another fringe opinion. And BTW I gave up beer about the time Rossi got out of the hoosegow ... Jones From: Mark Iverson Jed wrote: Whatever else Rossi may be, and whatever it is he is drinking (or smoking), he is the most interesting man in the world. I thought the guy on the Dos Equis commercial was the most interesting man in the world... He's not going to be happy about being #2! Stay Thirsty My Friends? No way, time for a perfect manhattan! -Mark attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interviewed on Radio24 [ITA]
A bit of humor: Can we believe that e-cats come from North Pole Santa's factory and are made one by one with the tiny and efficient hands of his little elves ? 2011/5/5 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net *From:* Jed Rothwell I can't imagine he makes 14 a day working by himself! He must have a staff of people at his factory, or outsourced… If Rossi does not have a group, he is doing an inhuman amount of work. … (cough, cough) … and you can really believe any of Rossi’s BS ! LOL It’s all like this.
