Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Energy states are quantized IMO because the De Broglie wave of the electron > needs to be in phase with itself as it wraps around the circumference of the > atom. Carver Mead wrote an interesting little book about this, called "Collective Electrodynamics," 2002 paperback edition, ISBN 0-262-13378-4 He concludes that EM waves alone can cause electrons to suddenly jump to higher energy. In his worldview, atoms absorb and emit long wavetrains, but not the infinite wavetrains required of single-frequency photons. He discovered the hole in physics: the detailed operation of receiving antennas as applied to atomic absorption. For him, photons are an unnecessary complication, and are just an artifact of the quantum jumps in electron energy. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
[Vo]:Tesla Revisted
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:14:36 -0500: Hi, [snip] > >Could the electron and the nucleus as a magnetically coupled resonant >systems explain why energy states are quantized? [snip] Energy states are quantized IMO because the De Broglie wave of the electron needs to be in phase with itself as it wraps around the circumference of the atom. If it gets out of phase, then it tends to annihilate itself at the radius at which it is out of phase, thus ensuring that only certain radii are stable. Therefore electrons can only permanently reside at certain radii, and must jump from one to the next when gaining or losing energy. Consequently energy is absorbed or lost in fixed amounts, i.e. it is quantized. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Could the electron and the nucleus as a magnetically coupled resonant systems explain why energy states are quantized? Harry On 10/6/2007 2:26 AM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Hi, > > BTW this energy transfer method probably also fits the energy transfer from a > hydrogen atom to a catalyst atom during Hydrino formation. Both transmitter > and > receiver are high Q resonant systems. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > The shrub is a plant. >
[Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Hi, BTW this energy transfer method probably also fits the energy transfer from a hydrogen atom to a catalyst atom during Hydrino formation. Both transmitter and receiver are high Q resonant systems. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
[Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Hi, My previous post stated that the frequency varied from about 150 Hz to 1 kHz. In fact due to the weakening of the Earth's field with altitude, the frequency actually remains fairly well constrained within a range of 300-350 Hz over the altitude interval where the effect would work. Below 700 km there isn't much of the van Allen belts to speak of, and beyond about 1000 km one gets beyond 1 wavelength, but only slowly. By 2000 km the ratio is 1.4 and the frequency has dropped to about 200 Hz. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Jeff Fink's message of Sat, 9 Jun 2007 07:00:25 -0400: Hi, [snip] So, why can’t people living within a few hundred feet of high voltage transmission lines tap useful “free” power with a 60 Hz receiver circuit? [snip] Are you sure they can't? I heard that a man with a house near a power line built a circuit which tapped 60 Hz energy. Shortly after turning it on however, he got a visit fromt the power company, who confiscated it. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
[Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Hi, BTW, the lower Van Allen belt extends from about 700 to 1 km above the surface, so the average distance is about 5000 km, which matches a frequency of 60 Hz. Tesla's magic number anyone? ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
In reply to John Berry's message of Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:34:57 +1200: Hi, [snip] >Look into Earl Ammann if your interested in distant transmission of >electrical energy. [snip] I did, and combined this with Tesla to come up with the following based on the MIT work. Most of the kinetic energy in the Solar wind is carried by protons. When these interact with the Earth's magnetic field they produce Synchrotron radiation. However because of the large mass of the protons and the weakness of the Earth's magnetic field the frequency generated is low. For a local magnetic field strength of 0.1 gauss, the frequency is about 150 Hz. This increases up to about 1 kHz at field strengths up to at most 0.65 gauss. Now the wavelength of a 1 kHz wave is 300 km. For 150 Hz this is 2000 km. Since 2000 km is far enough (straight up) to encompass some of those trapped protons, any tuned receiver would be within 1 wavelength, and hence amenable to the MIT process. IOW the protons in the Solar wind supply the power, and we pick it up with a tank circuit tuned to the matching frequency. This may be what many free energy claims were based on, as well as some of Tesla's work. (This may coincidentally also be the source of purported free energy in Joseph Newman's motor, which contains a huge coil. He could be running on a sub-harmonic.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Kind of obvious but... Harry, a DC current in a coil will not emit and radio waves, I think you made a mistake. The following is reasonably accurate however. A flat DC current creates no radiowaves at all regardless of conductor shape. An AC current in a straight wire will emit radio waves. An AC current in a coil will emit negligible radiowaves with little powrer Pulsed DC is as good as AC for creating radiowaves. On 6/10/07, Harry Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A DC current in a straight wire won't emit radio waves. A DC current in a coiled wire will emit radio waves, but with little power. Harry On 9/6/2007 6:14 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: >> Essentially it's a transformer primary >> winding with an open secondary winding. > > Indeed a primary with an open secondary behaves like a pure inductor, so it's > a purely reactive load, so current in it can be made to oscillate non > dissipatively (assuming resistance of the coil is negligible). In terms of > transformer it makes perfect sense. But in terms of antenna, how could the > open air coil antenna help emitting radio waves (which requires power) towards > infinity? > > Michel > - Original Message - > From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted > > > In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: > Hi, > [snip] >> I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >> Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >> with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >> other device. > > Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). > The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a > resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of > resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a > high > impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary > winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be > reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and > receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even > less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently > less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant > frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >> >> Harry >> >> On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: >> >>> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >>> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >>> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. >>> Maybe >>> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >>> >>> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between >>> this >>> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >>> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a >>> receiver, >>> I can't really see why. > > I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that > this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be > achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the > corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the > energy > transfer efficiency. ;) > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > The shrub is a plant. >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Look at Stubblefields wireless telephone, it was loops of wire at audio (not radio) frequencies and IMO worked better than conventional EM would consider possible. The magnetic field caught a lift rather literally, indeed here are devices that can make rather impressive magnetic beams or in one case where a magnetic field was carried by the aetheric output of a Tesla Coil and conducted through the experimenters body. (This is how Tesla's transmission technology really worked) The same effect is seen with ground radio where is seems the EM gets a lift on subterranean currents. (Borderlands has some good experiments) R. Stiffler found the same effect where a pickup coil latched on to the transmitter and remained at the same strength even when drawing the pickup coil further away. You need very specific designs to make this work but it can be seen in most of the solid state FE devices, the are one way transformers where the primary is unaware the secondary is drawing power due to the distance (loose coupling) but due to the magnetic field from the primary getting a unidirectional lift on a stream of aether energy is induced in the secondary. Note: There are only 3 possibilities, a universal static aether/reference frame (quite impossible), Special Relativity which is illogical and experiments have contradicted and even Einstein rejected after proposing it when he said you're a fool if you don't believe in an aether and finally a dynamic aether which matter largely entrains. Resonance can help in creating an aetheric bridge between primary and secondary but if you want it to be Overunity you need the bridge to be unidirectional. Look into Earl Ammann if your interested in distant transmission of electrical energy. On 6/10/07, Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In reply to Jeff Fink's message of Sat, 9 Jun 2007 07:00:25 -0400: Hi, [snip] >So, why can't people living within a few hundred feet of high voltage >transmission lines tap useful "free" power with a 60 Hz receiver circuit? [snip] Are you sure they can't? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
RE: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Jeff Fink wrote: > So, why cant people living within a few hundred feet > of high voltage transmission lines tap useful free > power with a 60 Hz receiver circuit? They can and have. You don't see it anymore, but I used to read of the occasional farmer caught at this sort of thing, usually just with an elongated coil near the transmission lines, not a resonant circuit. However, I remember reading of one farmer who had an elaborate system built under the roof of his barn at a subtantial distance from the power lines. Knowing what I now know, it had to have been a resonant circuit. You have to wonder why the guy was a farmer if he that kind of talent. Also, you can just imagine how hard it would be to detect this type of power theft in an urban environment. M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Thanks Bill and Michael and Robin for your explanations regarding the ratio of the emitting coil size wrt the wavelength making the device an inefficient radio emitter. I found the following documents on the web with the help of Google Scholar and its "web search" feature: - the arxiv preprint of their 2006 theoretical paper "Efficient wireless non-radiative mid-range energy transfer": http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0611/0611063.pdf - a WIPO patent (WO/2007/008646) WIRELESS NON-RADIATIVE ENERGY TRANSFER http://www.wipo.int/patentscopedb/en/wads2.jsp?IA=US2006026480&ID=id0004722606&VOL=67&DOC=000582&WEEK=03/2007&WO=07/008646&TYPE=A2&PAGE=0&DOC_TYPE=PCT (where Soljacic is curiously spelled "Solajacic") ...which you EM wizards might be kind enough to comment for the rest of us. BTW in my quick glance at the patent I saw a mention of RFID, isn't this indeed how RFID stickers are powered? Michel - Original Message - From: "William Beaty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted > On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference >> between this MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter >> with a tuned receiver? > > Any EM antenna behaves as a hole in an opaque plate. A coil 10cm in > diameter behaves as a "hole" which is 500 times smaller than the > wavelength of radiation trying to pass through the hole. Such a coil > makes a terrible antenna. > > If the coils are far smaller than one wavelength of 6MHz, then they behave > as an air-core transformer. If the coils are around one wavelength > diameter (like a 1/4-wave antenna,) then they behave as loop antennas for > a transmitter-receiver pair. > > In this case the many-cm coil does not behave as an antenna. It behaves > as a transformer primary, and any wireless device must contain the > transformer secondary. > > Try this: connect a coil to the input of a portable battery-powered audio > amp, turn it on, then walk around your house listening for 60Hz hum. > You'll discover many regions of high AC field surrounding clock motors, > fluorescent ballasts, lamp cords, etc. But this is not EM radiation. In > order to form a quarter-wave antenna at 60Hz, a transformer coil would > have to be 1250 kilometers across. > > In general, small coils don't emit significant EM waves. The question > then becomes: what does "small" mean, and which emission is > "significant." > > In EM theory, a radio antennas is much like a hole in an opaque plate. If > this hole is far smaller than one wavelength, then very little radiation > can pass through. And if a coil or capacitor is far smaller than one > wavelength of the operating frequency, then very little EM radiation will > escape from the device, and we don't call it by the name "antenna." > > At 6MHz, one wavelength is 3e8/6e6 = 50 meters. A quarter-wave antenna > would be 12.5 meters across.A 10cm coil is too small to behave as an > antenna. If it was an aperture in an opaque plate, it would be 500 times > smaller than one wavelength. > > >> They say energy is not radiated away if it's not >> used by a receiver, I can't really see why. > > > When AC coils are in operation, first the magnetic field expands into the > space surrounding the coil. Then the field collapses again, and the > energy is returned to the circuit before the waveform reverses polarity > and the process repeats again. AC coils sequentially emit magnetic > energy and then suck it back in again. > > > (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) > William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 425-222-5066unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
In reply to Jeff Fink's message of Sat, 9 Jun 2007 07:00:25 -0400: Hi, [snip] >So, why cant people living within a few hundred feet of high voltage >transmission lines tap useful free power with a 60 Hz receiver circuit? [snip] Are you sure they can't? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Michel Jullian wrote: > On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference > between this MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter > with a tuned receiver? Any EM antenna behaves as a hole in an opaque plate. A coil 10cm in diameter behaves as a "hole" which is 500 times smaller than the wavelength of radiation trying to pass through the hole. Such a coil makes a terrible antenna. If the coils are far smaller than one wavelength of 6MHz, then they behave as an air-core transformer. If the coils are around one wavelength diameter (like a 1/4-wave antenna,) then they behave as loop antennas for a transmitter-receiver pair. In this case the many-cm coil does not behave as an antenna. It behaves as a transformer primary, and any wireless device must contain the transformer secondary. Try this: connect a coil to the input of a portable battery-powered audio amp, turn it on, then walk around your house listening for 60Hz hum. You'll discover many regions of high AC field surrounding clock motors, fluorescent ballasts, lamp cords, etc. But this is not EM radiation. In order to form a quarter-wave antenna at 60Hz, a transformer coil would have to be 1250 kilometers across. In general, small coils don't emit significant EM waves. The question then becomes: what does "small" mean, and which emission is "significant." In EM theory, a radio antennas is much like a hole in an opaque plate. If this hole is far smaller than one wavelength, then very little radiation can pass through. And if a coil or capacitor is far smaller than one wavelength of the operating frequency, then very little EM radiation will escape from the device, and we don't call it by the name "antenna." At 6MHz, one wavelength is 3e8/6e6 = 50 meters. A quarter-wave antenna would be 12.5 meters across.A 10cm coil is too small to behave as an antenna. If it was an aperture in an opaque plate, it would be 500 times smaller than one wavelength. > They say energy is not radiated away if it's not > used by a receiver, I can't really see why. When AC coils are in operation, first the magnetic field expands into the space surrounding the coil. Then the field collapses again, and the energy is returned to the circuit before the waveform reverses polarity and the process repeats again. AC coils sequentially emit magnetic energy and then suck it back in again. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Michel wrote: > Indeed a primary with an open secondary behaves > like a pure inductor, so it's a purely reactive > load, so current in it can be made to oscillate > non dissipatively (assuming resistance of the > coil is negligible). In terms of transformer it > makes perfect sense. But in terms of antenna, > how could the open air coil antenna help emitting > radio waves (which requires power) towards infinity? That's just it, the coil isn't an antenna. Or it's not a very good one. Some electromagnetic radiation is bound to escape from such a coil, but it can be designed to minimize that effect. An LC circuit can oscillate without radiating very much unless it has an antenna configured in such a way as to resonate with the permittivity and permeablity of free space. Otherwise, radio and TV stations could have nice compact oscillators instead of those big antenna towers. Also, electric power transmission lines would be useless because they would be emitting EM radiation at 6OHz (50Hz in Europe) and hardly any power would reach its intended destination. This is a near field effect, not EM radiation. In other words, the receiver is less than a wavelength from the emitter. The emitter/oscillator would draw a minimum of power until a nearby resonant receiver could become a power draw itself. Please pardon this somewhat homemade explanation. I came very late in life to an interest in EM phenomena, and my knowledge of it is, shall we say, less than sophisticated. M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
A DC current in a straight wire won't emit radio waves. A DC current in a coiled wire will emit radio waves, but with little power. Harry On 9/6/2007 6:14 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: >> Essentially it's a transformer primary >> winding with an open secondary winding. > > Indeed a primary with an open secondary behaves like a pure inductor, so it's > a purely reactive load, so current in it can be made to oscillate non > dissipatively (assuming resistance of the coil is negligible). In terms of > transformer it makes perfect sense. But in terms of antenna, how could the > open air coil antenna help emitting radio waves (which requires power) towards > infinity? > > Michel > - Original Message - > From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted > > > In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: > Hi, > [snip] >> I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >> Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >> with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >> other device. > > Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). > The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a > resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of > resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a > high > impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary > winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be > reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and > receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even > less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently > less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant > frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >> >> Harry >> >> On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: >> >>> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >>> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >>> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. >>> Maybe >>> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >>> >>> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between >>> this >>> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >>> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a >>> receiver, >>> I can't really see why. > > I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that > this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be > achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the > corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the > energy > transfer efficiency. ;) > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > The shrub is a plant. >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
> Essentially it's a transformer primary > winding with an open secondary winding. Indeed a primary with an open secondary behaves like a pure inductor, so it's a purely reactive load, so current in it can be made to oscillate non dissipatively (assuming resistance of the coil is negligible). In terms of transformer it makes perfect sense. But in terms of antenna, how could the open air coil antenna help emitting radio waves (which requires power) towards infinity? Michel - Original Message - From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >other device. Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a high impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >Harry > >On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe >> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >> >> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between >> this >> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a >> receiver, >> I can't really see why. I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the energy transfer efficiency. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
RE: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
So, why can’t people living within a few hundred feet of high voltage transmission lines tap useful “free” power with a 60 Hz receiver circuit? Jeff _ From: John Berry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:57 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted You would want it to be low distance and frequency specific so the neighbors can't tap into your power supply. I believe it is entirely possible because what is happening is a flow of aether of being established between Primary and Secondary making them very close inductively and if you do it right it's a one way effect. (The magnetic field is carried by a flow of aether as has been observed in many devices) This can be seen in many free energy devices and ground or super radio receivers. On 6/9/07, Robin van Spaandonk mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >other device. Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a high impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >Harry > >On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe >> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >> >> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between this >> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a receiver, >> I can't really see why. I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the energy transfer efficiency. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 2:21 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/841 - Release Date: 6/9/2007 8:52 AM
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
You would want it to be low distance and frequency specific so the neighbors can't tap into your power supply. I believe it is entirely possible because what is happening is a flow of aether of being established between Primary and Secondary making them very close inductively and if you do it right it's a one way effect. (The magnetic field is carried by a flow of aether as has been observed in many devices) This can be seen in many free energy devices and ground or super radio receivers. On 6/9/07, Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >other device. Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a high impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >Harry > >On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe >> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >> >> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between this >> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a receiver, >> I can't really see why. I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the energy transfer efficiency. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:00:21 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. >Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging >with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some >other device. Precisely, so if no power is drawn, then none is transmitted (theoretically). The trick is that the inductance of the transmitting coil remains high until a resonant load is attached. Since most things in the environment are out of resonance the impedance stays high, and the transmitter itself appears as a high impendence to its own power source. Essentially it's a transformer primary winding with an open secondary winding. BTW this implies that losses can be reduced even further by increasing the Q factor of both transmitter and receiver. The effect of which is to narrow the bandwidth, ensuring that even less "spurious receivers" are to be found in the environment, and consequently less loss. Of course the flip side is that it's harder to match the resonant frequency of the receiver to that of the transmitter. > >Harry > >On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a >> receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, >> and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe >> it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? >> >> On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between >> this >> MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned >> receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a >> receiver, >> I can't really see why. I suspect that the receiver is within a wavelength of the transmitter, so that this is a near field effect, which would imply that greater distances could be achieved by using lower frequencies, though I suspect that one of the corollaries of Murphy's law says that as the frequency drops, so does the energy transfer efficiency. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
I can't explain it with em theory, but it behaves like a simple pendulum. Ignoring friction, once the pendulum is set in motion it will keep swinging with the same amplitude until the pendulum is used to power a clock or some other device. Harry On 8/6/2007 11:27 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a > receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, > and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe > it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? > > On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between this > MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned > receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a receiver, > I can't really see why. > > Michel > > - Original Message - > From: "Harry Veeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted > > > On 8/6/2007 7:53 AM, OrionWorks wrote: > >> From Michael Foster: >> >>> >>> Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla >>> but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know >>> he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of >>> thing never ceases to amaze me. >>> >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power >>> >>> M. >> >> Kewl idea, but I bet it's anything but efficient, as stated by the >> second article currently only 40 45 percent efficient. Obviously, >> they hope to improve on that percentage. >> >> One would assume the copper coil hidden in the ceiling could be >> broadcasting power constantly, 24 hours a day, regardless of whether >> there are appliances in the room to take advantage of it. > > You could turn them on and off with a light switch. > > >> There goes >> any effort to reduce our country's energy footprint. > >> >> And just wait for consumer protection and health organizations to get >> a hold of this concept. Soon there will be accusations that beamed >> power promotes brain tumors, birth defects, and infertility. They >> claim it's safe, but I'm sure many consumer protection agencies are >> likely to dismiss those proclamations. >> >> Regards, >> Steven Vincent Johnson >> www.OrionWorks.com >> >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Maybe it would be possible for the emitter/primary to know there is a receiver/secondary around drawing power from it, if none it could turn off, and turn on for a brief time every few seconds to check of it's needed. Maybe it could even modulate its output power to fit the needs? On the "how it works" side, has anybody understood the difference between this MHz "resonant magnetic coupling" device and a radio emitter with a tuned receiver? They say energy is not radiated away if it's not used by a receiver, I can't really see why. Michel - Original Message - From: "Harry Veeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted On 8/6/2007 7:53 AM, OrionWorks wrote: > From Michael Foster: > >> >> Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla >> but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know >> he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of >> thing never ceases to amaze me. >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power >> >> M. > > Kewl idea, but I bet it's anything but efficient, as stated by the > second article currently only 40 45 percent efficient. Obviously, > they hope to improve on that percentage. > > One would assume the copper coil hidden in the ceiling could be > broadcasting power constantly, 24 hours a day, regardless of whether > there are appliances in the room to take advantage of it. You could turn them on and off with a light switch. > There goes > any effort to reduce our country's energy footprint. > > And just wait for consumer protection and health organizations to get > a hold of this concept. Soon there will be accusations that beamed > power promotes brain tumors, birth defects, and infertility. They > claim it's safe, but I'm sure many consumer protection agencies are > likely to dismiss those proclamations. > > Regards, > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
On 8/6/2007 7:53 AM, OrionWorks wrote: > From Michael Foster: > >> >> Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla >> but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know >> he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of >> thing never ceases to amaze me. >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power >> >> M. > > Kewl idea, but I bet it's anything but efficient, as stated by the > second article currently only 40 45 percent efficient. Obviously, > they hope to improve on that percentage. > > One would assume the copper coil hidden in the ceiling could be > broadcasting power constantly, 24 hours a day, regardless of whether > there are appliances in the room to take advantage of it. You could turn them on and off with a light switch. > There goes > any effort to reduce our country's energy footprint. > > And just wait for consumer protection and health organizations to get > a hold of this concept. Soon there will be accusations that beamed > power promotes brain tumors, birth defects, and infertility. They > claim it's safe, but I'm sure many consumer protection agencies are > likely to dismiss those proclamations. > > Regards, > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/MIT_WiTricity_Press_Release.pdf There seems to be a strange curse that only people born in Croatia come up with such ideas ;-) Michel - Original Message - From: "Jones Beene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted > Some images from google: > > http://tinyurl.com/yweesp > > or > > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/wardenc3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://amasci.com/tesla/tesray1.html&h=841&w=600&sz=80&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=o6EKsE5P3vU6qM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtesla%2Btransmitter%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG > > > > > Michael Foster wrote: >> Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla >> but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know >> he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of >> thing never ceases to amaze me. >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power >> >> M. >> >> ___ >> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com >> The most personalized portal on the Web! >> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Some images from google: http://tinyurl.com/yweesp or http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/wardenc3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://amasci.com/tesla/tesray1.html&h=841&w=600&sz=80&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=o6EKsE5P3vU6qM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtesla%2Btransmitter%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG Michael Foster wrote: Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
From Michael Foster: Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power M. Kewl idea, but I bet it's anything but efficient, as stated by the second article – currently only 40 – 45 percent efficient. Obviously, they hope to improve on that percentage. One would assume the copper coil hidden in the ceiling could be broadcasting power constantly, 24 hours a day, regardless of whether there are appliances in the room to take advantage of it. There goes any effort to reduce our country's energy footprint. And just wait for consumer protection and health organizations to get a hold of this concept. Soon there will be accusations that beamed power promotes brain tumors, birth defects, and infertility. They claim it's safe, but I'm sure many consumer protection agencies are likely to dismiss those proclamations. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
RE: [Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Oh, here's another one, where they actually mention Tesla but claim he only attempted it. I guess they don't know he used to light up his whole lab this way. This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_hi_te/wireless_power M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
[Vo]:Tesla Revisted
Check this out. "Scientists" have discovered wireless transmission of power in the home. Don't suppose they'll give poor ol' Tesla any credit. http://tinyurl.com/3e4c6b M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
