Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Hi, I think it's a smart move of Toyota. Take note, Toyoto is also aware of wet van de remmende voorsprong, so they need to leap forward somehow or the competition will do it instead. And if Europe and the US are not available as a market due to certification issues they will focus on the Chinese and Indian market. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_handicap_of_a_head_start Kind regards, Rob Lennart Thornros schreef op 7-1-2015 om 00:49: There is a theoretic business model called the S-curve theory that explains the possibilities and the risk with new technology. The typewriters , the vacuum tubes, the adding machines etc. are good examples. So far I am in agreement with the idea that there is a market changes due to technology. LENR absolute but not now. To dangerous to take such a step. Even if they present a car driven by LENR it would take years to get acceptance. Maybe Toyota is not thinking so well. The first ones to move to new technology seldom prevail. Apple might be good today but that has more to do with the I-phone than their computers of 1984. Texas Instrument are not a major player on the semiconductor market compare 1968. HP had some real early handheld computers did not take them to the front of today's handheld market. Many companies have seen this pattern repeat itself over the years and realize being first or having the patent is not the most important - in most cases. Xerox being the exception that shows validity to me of that statement. Time ago it was the norm, that being first equaled success. The problems with LENR is of course that there is no theory that backs it up. There is nobody driving the development of LENR Rossi is entrepreneurial and his new partner has been very quiet and demonstrated very little leadership. BLP seems more focused on academical result than commercialization. Maybe there are more (better) information out there, which I am unaware of. In such case now is the time to identify the winners and buy shares. I doubt it is Toyota they remind me of IBM. Tesla maybe. Unknown entity is the most likely in my opinion. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com http://www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:15 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net mailto:zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Yes, they funded early LENR work with FP. IIRC, they stopped LENR research for a period of time, but then restarted the effort. You can bet the BoD and C-levels have been kept up-to-date about developments in LENR... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Bob Cook [mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Mark's thought also was the first idea that came into my head upon reading Terry's comment. I think they, Toyota, are onto LENR. Let's not forget they hired Pons and Fleishman for research in Nice, France after they left the USA. Bob - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net mailto:zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market
[Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Article in Japanese, which Google does a good job translating into English: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atcars/news/20150106-OYT8T50183.html Toyota has begun selling a hydrogen powered fuel-cell vehicle. They have 5320 patents relating to the fuel system. They want to put them in the public domain so that other manufacturers make fuel-cell vehicles, so that fueling stations will be built. They realize that with their own sales alone the necessary infrastructure will not be constructed. I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota.
RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota.
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Without some breakthrough, fuel cells are just a distraction. http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/05/why-battery-electric-vehicles-will-beat-fuel-cells/ On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:35 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota.
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:12:26 -0800: Hi, [snip] Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota. At 1300 °C a small steam turbine would extract a lot more energy from the heat than you would get from thermal decomposition of water. The mechanical energy from the turbine can be used directly to drive the wheels, saving on conversion losses. Better yet, if the nuclear reactions at the heart of LENR produce fast charged particles, then the potential exists for direct conversion to electricity with possible efficiencies exceeding 50%. An intermediate solution might be a form of beta-voltaic battery that is LENR powered, and where the power output can be controlled by controlling the rate at which the LENR reaction proceeds. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Yes, they funded early LENR work with FP. IIRC, they stopped LENR research for a period of time, but then restarted the effort. You can bet the BoD and C-levels have been kept up-to-date about developments in LENR... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Bob Cook [mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Mark's thought also was the first idea that came into my head upon reading Terry's comment. I think they, Toyota, are onto LENR. Let's not forget they hired Pons and Fleishman for research in Nice, France after they left the USA. Bob - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota.
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
There is a theoretic business model called the S-curve theory that explains the possibilities and the risk with new technology. The typewriters , the vacuum tubes, the adding machines etc. are good examples. So far I am in agreement with the idea that there is a market changes due to technology. LENR absolute but not now. To dangerous to take such a step. Even if they present a car driven by LENR it would take years to get acceptance. Maybe Toyota is not thinking so well. The first ones to move to new technology seldom prevail. Apple might be good today but that has more to do with the I-phone than their computers of 1984. Texas Instrument are not a major player on the semiconductor market compare 1968. HP had some real early handheld computers did not take them to the front of today's handheld market. Many companies have seen this pattern repeat itself over the years and realize being first or having the patent is not the most important - in most cases. Xerox being the exception that shows validity to me of that statement. Time ago it was the norm, that being first equaled success. The problems with LENR is of course that there is no theory that backs it up. There is nobody driving the development of LENR Rossi is entrepreneurial and his new partner has been very quiet and demonstrated very little leadership. BLP seems more focused on academical result than commercialization. Maybe there are more (better) information out there, which I am unaware of. In such case now is the time to identify the winners and buy shares. I doubt it is Toyota they remind me of IBM. Tesla maybe. Unknown entity is the most likely in my opinion. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:15 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Yes, they funded early LENR work with FP. IIRC, they stopped LENR research for a period of time, but then restarted the effort. You can bet the BoD and C-levels have been kept up-to-date about developments in LENR... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Bob Cook [mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Mark's thought also was the first idea that came into my head upon reading Terry's comment. I think they, Toyota, are onto LENR. Let's not forget they hired Pons and Fleishman for research in Nice, France after they left the USA. Bob - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Mark's thought also was the first idea that came into my head upon reading Terry's comment. I think they, Toyota, are onto LENR. Let's not forget they hired Pons and Fleishman for research in Nice, France after they left the USA. Bob - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain Misinformation? Toyota wants to make its competitors think it's going down fuel-cell path when it is really developing LENR-based tech for powering its future fleet... -mark iverson -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Jed Rothwell wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla. Maybe not bizarre. Anyway, it's not wise to bet against Toyota. Tesla's shares are down 55 points since October-and Toyota is up 10. Toyota may know something that we, or even Elon-the-magnificent, do not yet appreciate - such as a breakthrough in cheap H2. GM dissed Toyota’s Prius a few years ago- as every expert in Detroit knew batteries were a dead-end technology. That was a billion dollar mistake that helped bankrupt GM. Things change with the small incremental advance, and Toyota is definitely a player in LENR and with a hydrogen IP portfolio that is unreal. H2 may yet be the low cost answer, and they know it. Even without them, however, we are only a breakthrough away from cheap H2 from LENR - maybe from a water-dog-bone g. Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. As of now, we know that water molecules split into hydrogen and oxygen at 2200 °C at a usable rate of about three percent (this is usable since waste heat is recycled at high efficiency) but with a breakthrough catalyst and low-cost heat, giving something like 2% conversion at 1300 °C, plus good heat recovery, then hydrogen becomes cheaper than battery-based electricity storage. The amount of lithium in a Tesla battery pack could possibly power 1,000,000 dogbones. We could be closer than anyone imagines to the hydrogen economy ... anyone other than Toyota.
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Think about thermal decomposition of water with a newly discovered catalyst, probably in one of these 5300 patents, plus an improved dog-bone reactor at 1300C. I do not think that a cheap method of producing hydrogen would help much, unless it was small enough and safe enough to place in people's houses. I think Toyota now plans to have gas stations that sell hydrogen. I think these patents relate to the fuel handling and delivery systems. Building enough stations to make these cars useful over much of Japan or the U.S. would cost a fortune, whereas electric cars can be charged anywhere, and plug-in hybrids refueled or recharged anywhere. If the hydrogen generator were cold fusion powered, why not just use cold fusion directly as the primary source of energy in the car? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
I wrote: I do not think that a cheap method of producing hydrogen would help much, unless it was small enough and safe enough to place in people's houses. Come to think of it, that would not help much. You could only drive half the range of the fuel tank away from your house. I was thinking of a system similar to charging an electric car at home. If you drive the full range of an electric car, you can charge it up at your destination, whereas most destinations would not have hydrogen generators. The only way to make this work is to have hydrogen dispensing stations in many places. I suppose they could be an extra pump at a regular gas station, but I doubt that would pay. Not for a long time. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Toyota puts fuel cell patents in the public domain
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I think this is a dead-end technology. It cannot compete with plug-in electric hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles. Toyota and Tesla are nearing the end of sales of the jointly developed RAV4 electric sport utility vehicle after delivering about 2,500 units over more than two years. The two companies are now taking separate paths, with Tesla working to bring the plug-in Model X crossover and a cheaper Model 3 sedan to market. Toyota is preparing to sell its first fuel-cell vehicle, a technology that Tesla’s billionaire co-founder Elon Musk has ridiculed. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/toyota-sells-tesla-shares-as-ev-project-winds-down.html Bizarre behavior on the part of Toyota unless they are suddenly cowed by the possibility of losing large market share to Tesla.
