Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/?hpt=hp_t4 It's sort of like minecraft and the simulator was seeded with the random number 42. On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Blaze Spinnaker http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulation.html?_r=0 This is a shallow rehash analysis in a way, at least for those of us who want to see further developments and insight in the Sim field, and considering the pedigree of Frenkel. He could have dug a bit deeper IMO. Forget a Universal sim and look at the more probable case. For instance, one twist which came up recently is the possibility that some, or many, individuals, can be living lives which are caught in their own personal neural simulation, but within the framework of a normal reality. This could be a natural thing - like karma, not requiring AI and so on. Or there could be minimal supervision. Think about the Bruce Willis character in the Shyamalan film Sixth Sense... you remember... the kick in the gut when the kid sez I see dead people and you realize he's talking about you. Another twist in the Sim vs Real dichotomy is highlighted in the neglected cult TV series Doll house (episode 10) where Echo, the Active (which is a euphemism for occasional psychic-prostitute, and more), becomes the vehicle for the potential immortality of a recently deceased, very wealthy client. This happenstance is fiction for now but actually a near-term technological reality - and it brings into focus the issue of wealth and mortality-morality in a most unusual way. Can we buy immortality - even if it is a Sim? In fact, isn't the sequential Sim preferable in many ways? Heck, we get tired of one beautiful body and the next one costs only a few hundred million more, no problem. Everyone is happy. Wealth is redistributed. What's wrong with this picture?
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulation.html?_r=0 Our good friends bostrom, beane and savage are referenced. On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:56 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://metaversetribune.com/2011/08/22/rosedale-makes-case-for-holographic-universe/ Rosedale was the founder of SecondLife. I frequently worked with the physics engine in SL and I can confirm the marble / cup QM tunneling analogy. Some choice quotes: - Basically if you leave a marble in a cup in Second Life, and you leave all night and you come back, what happens? The marble is gone. - If there was a hidden dimension [Holographic Principle - universe as 2 dimensions] wrapped around our universe that contained all the data for the atoms in our world, quantum entanglement starts to make more sense. - The general agreement in quantum mechanics is that subatomic particles like photons behave like waves until looked at by a conscious observer .. Second Life, too, does not render until looked at by a conscious observer, but the data always remains in that hidden dimension outside the 3D virtual space. Just something to think about. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/weird-science-weekly-may-living-holographic-projection-010534111.html Cool video - the idea that reality is just a projected hologram from a 2 dimensional surface at the boundaries of space. On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: It is also possible the universe is just a dream, or a shared hallucination. Maybe all our memories are manufactured and we have not been on this earth and list for x number of years, we may only have implanted memories and started 'fresh' this morning. Many far out and improbable things can be argued as possible, this sim argument is no different. I am not going to take any of these ideas seriously since none of them agree with the incredible detail and broadness of the world. It only distracts from understanding the world we are in. Now we could ask if consciousness comes from dis dimension, at least we perceive consciousness to exist. As far as existential questions go that one makes sense. John On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.netwrote: From: Eric Walker Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. The weirdness could easily be that there is both a real universe and many ongoing simulations, and especially simulations within simulations. Even if you find the tell at one level, you may only advance to the next Sim ! Whether the individual (us, for instance) can ever figure out multiple layering depends on many factors but could easily be impossible, as you say - since any the Sim can have a automatic mechanism for the untimely demise of a player who is digging too deep. Think Philip K. Dick. OTOH a few Sims, and maybe our own, could be structured as some kind of test the aim of which is to see how long it takes the subjects of the experiment (i.e. the meat) to figure out that they are locked into a Sim. The untimely demise mechanism of a Sim is one reason why a large group effort would be preferable :-) At least the tell would then be the improbability of the disaster - such as that most of the Vortex News Group did not survive Thanksgiving due... due to... err... tainted turkey? Remember: the red pill is in the cranberries! Actually the Matrix films are an example of early house-of-mirrors layering since any movie is already a Sim on one level.
RE: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
From: Blaze Spinnaker http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulatio n.html?_r=0 This is a shallow rehash analysis in a way, at least for those of us who want to see further developments and insight in the Sim field, and considering the pedigree of Frenkel. He could have dug a bit deeper IMO. Forget a Universal sim and look at the more probable case. For instance, one twist which came up recently is the possibility that some, or many, individuals, can be living lives which are caught in their own personal neural simulation, but within the framework of a normal reality. This could be a natural thing - like karma, not requiring AI and so on. Or there could be minimal supervision. Think about the Bruce Willis character in the Shyamalan film Sixth Sense. you remember. the kick in the gut when the kid sez I see dead people and you realize he's talking about you. Another twist in the Sim vs Real dichotomy is highlighted in the neglected cult TV series Doll house (episode 10) where Echo, the Active (which is a euphemism for occasional psychic-prostitute, and more), becomes the vehicle for the potential immortality of a recently deceased, very wealthy client. This happenstance is fiction for now but actually a near-term technological reality - and it brings into focus the issue of wealth and mortality-morality in a most unusual way. Can we buy immortality - even if it is a Sim? In fact, isn't the sequential Sim preferable in many ways? Heck, we get tired of one beautiful body and the next one costs only a few hundred million more, no problem. Everyone is happy. Wealth is redistributed. What's wrong with this picture?
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://metaversetribune.com/2011/08/22/rosedale-makes-case-for-holographic-universe/ Rosedale was the founder of SecondLife. I frequently worked with the physics engine in SL and I can confirm the marble / cup QM tunneling analogy. Some choice quotes: - “Basically if you leave a marble in a cup in Second Life, and you leave all night and you come back, what happens? The marble is gone.” - If there was a hidden dimension [Holographic Principle - universe as 2 dimensions] wrapped around our universe that contained all the data for the atoms in our world, quantum entanglement starts to make more sense. - The general agreement in quantum mechanics is that subatomic particles like photons behave like waves until looked at by a conscious observer .. Second Life, too, does not render until looked at by a conscious observer, but the data always remains in that hidden dimension outside the 3D virtual space. Just something to think about. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/weird-science-weekly-may-living-holographic-projection-010534111.html Cool video - the idea that reality is just a projected hologram from a 2 dimensional surface at the boundaries of space. On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: It is also possible the universe is just a dream, or a shared hallucination. Maybe all our memories are manufactured and we have not been on this earth and list for x number of years, we may only have implanted memories and started 'fresh' this morning. Many far out and improbable things can be argued as possible, this sim argument is no different. I am not going to take any of these ideas seriously since none of them agree with the incredible detail and broadness of the world. It only distracts from understanding the world we are in. Now we could ask if consciousness comes from dis dimension, at least we perceive consciousness to exist. As far as existential questions go that one makes sense. John On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Eric Walker Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. The weirdness could easily be that there is both a “real” universe and many ongoing simulations, and especially simulations within simulations. Even if you find the “tell” at one level, you may only advance to the next Sim ! Whether the individual (us, for instance) can ever figure out multiple layering depends on many factors but could easily be impossible, as you say - since any the Sim can have a automatic mechanism for the untimely “demise” of a player who is digging too deep. Think Philip K. Dick. OTOH a few Sims, and maybe our own, could be structured as some kind of test the aim of which is to see how long it takes the subjects of the experiment (i.e. “the meat”) to figure out that they are locked into a Sim. The “untimely demise” mechanism of a Sim is one reason why a large group effort would be preferable :-) At least the “tell” would then be the improbability of the disaster – such as that most of the Vortex News Group did not survive Thanksgiving due… due to… err… tainted turkey? Remember: the red pill is in the cranberries! Actually the Matrix films are an example of early house-of-mirrors layering since any movie is already a Sim on one level.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/weird-science-weekly-may-living-holographic-projection-010534111.html Cool video - the idea that reality is just a projected hologram from a 2 dimensional surface at the boundaries of space. On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: It is also possible the universe is just a dream, or a shared hallucination. Maybe all our memories are manufactured and we have not been on this earth and list for x number of years, we may only have implanted memories and started 'fresh' this morning. Many far out and improbable things can be argued as possible, this sim argument is no different. I am not going to take any of these ideas seriously since none of them agree with the incredible detail and broadness of the world. It only distracts from understanding the world we are in. Now we could ask if consciousness comes from dis dimension, at least we perceive consciousness to exist. As far as existential questions go that one makes sense. John On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Eric Walker Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. The weirdness could easily be that there is both a “real” universe and many ongoing simulations, and especially simulations within simulations. Even if you find the “tell” at one level, you may only advance to the next Sim ! Whether the individual (us, for instance) can ever figure out multiple layering depends on many factors but could easily be impossible, as you say - since any the Sim can have a automatic mechanism for the untimely “demise” of a player who is digging too deep. Think Philip K. Dick. OTOH a few Sims, and maybe our own, could be structured as some kind of test the aim of which is to see how long it takes the subjects of the experiment (i.e. “the meat”) to figure out that they are locked into a Sim. The “untimely demise” mechanism of a Sim is one reason why a large group effort would be preferable :-) At least the “tell” would then be the improbability of the disaster – such as that most of the Vortex News Group did not survive Thanksgiving due… due to… err… tainted turkey? Remember: the red pill is in the cranberries! Actually the Matrix films are an example of early house-of-mirrors layering since any movie is already a Sim on one level.
RE: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
From: Eric Walker Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. The weirdness could easily be that there is both a “real” universe and many ongoing simulations, and especially simulations within simulations. Even if you find the “tell” at one level, you may only advance to the next Sim ! Whether the individual (us, for instance) can ever figure out multiple layering depends on many factors but could easily be impossible, as you say - since any the Sim can have a automatic mechanism for the untimely “demise” of a player who is digging too deep. Think Philip K. Dick. OTOH a few Sims, and maybe our own, could be structured as some kind of test the aim of which is to see how long it takes the subjects of the experiment (i.e. “the meat”) to figure out that they are locked into a Sim. The “untimely demise” mechanism of a Sim is one reason why a large group effort would be preferable :-) At least the “tell” would then be the improbability of the disaster – such as that most of the Vortex News Group did not survive Thanksgiving due… due to… err… tainted turkey? Remember: the red pill is in the cranberries! Actually the Matrix films are an example of early house-of-mirrors layering since any movie is already a Sim on one level. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
It is also possible the universe is just a dream, or a shared hallucination. Maybe all our memories are manufactured and we have not been on this earth and list for x number of years, we may only have implanted memories and started 'fresh' this morning. Many far out and improbable things can be argued as possible, this sim argument is no different. I am not going to take any of these ideas seriously since none of them agree with the incredible detail and broadness of the world. It only distracts from understanding the world we are in. Now we could ask if consciousness comes from dis dimension, at least we perceive consciousness to exist. As far as existential questions go that one makes sense. John On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Eric Walker Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. The weirdness could easily be that there is both a “real” universe and many ongoing simulations, and especially simulations within simulations. Even if you find the “tell” at one level, you may only advance to the next Sim ! Whether the individual (us, for instance) can ever figure out multiple layering depends on many factors but could easily be impossible, as you say - since any the Sim can have a automatic mechanism for the untimely “demise” of a player who is digging too deep. Think Philip K. Dick. OTOH a few Sims, and maybe our own, could be structured as some kind of test the aim of which is to see how long it takes the subjects of the experiment (i.e. “the meat”) to figure out that they are locked into a Sim. The “untimely demise” mechanism of a Sim is one reason why a large group effort would be preferable :-) At least the “tell” would then be the improbability of the disaster – such as that most of the Vortex News Group did not survive Thanksgiving due… due to… err… tainted turkey? Remember: the red pill is in the cranberries! Actually the Matrix films are an example of early house-of-mirrors layering since any movie is already a Sim on one level.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Yes, but you are thinking linear, binary computer. We are only scratching the surface of what can be accomplished in a multi-state computer, the first of which are being shipped by D-wave. It's 512 qubit processor lends itself to problems, such as multi-body interactions, which are a near impossible challenge to conventional machines.
RE: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
From: Axil Reality is a very hard concept to understand. But there is one thing that is sure, whatever it is, what you now think is reality is just an illusion. Yup. Buddha had figured that out thousands of years ago, but most still don't get it. The vast majority of the population forget how many times they plunked another quarter in the video game counsel, to play another round of The SIMS. I suspect forgetting is a built in feature of playing the game. The upside to forgetting is that most tend to feel a visceral sense that their all-too-brief lifespan is constantly in peril. The downside to this is.well... the same. Kinds of depends on how you want to look at it, and how many quarters you got in yer pocket. Steve Johnson - DA
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
I think the simulation still has a few bugs in the software... You guys might be interested in what 11 months of plotting all fish kills/algae blooms, sinkholes and waterspouts in Florida are pointing me towards as a culprit. A PhD from UNC Chapel Hill is assisting in crunching the stats for me. http://darkmattersalot.com/2013/11/27/dead-fish-art/ The culprit will be increased weakly ionizing penetrating radiation from the atmosphere triggering accelerated decay and mutation. Think of the atmosphere as a capacitor of weakly ionized plasma discharging to the Earth as a battery. Stewart On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 8:34 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: From: Axil Reality is a very hard concept to understand. But there is one thing that is sure, whatever it is, what you now think is reality is just an illusion. Yup. Buddha had figured that out thousands of years ago, but most still don't get it. The vast majority of the population forget how many times they plunked another quarter in the video game counsel, to play another round of *The SIMS*. I suspect forgetting is a built in feature of playing the game. The upside to forgetting is that most tend to feel a visceral sense that their all-too-brief lifespan is constantly in peril. The downside to this is…well... the same. Kinds of depends on how you want to look at it, and how many quarters you got in yer pocket. Steve Johnson - DA
RE: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
The reason that the opinion of many scientists in this simulated reality discussion is not particularly valid or helpful - is they cannot divorce themselves from the idealism that somehow logic or truth is at the baseline of the Sim. Logic is not in any way a requirement for this kind of simulation. In fact some level of whim can be expected. Kokopelli and other tricksters are deeply imbedded in this Sim, no doubt in my mind :-) For instance, one of the commentators sez: Learning we live in a simulation would make no more difference to my life than believing that the universe was seeded at the Big Bang, but he imagines the simulators as driven by a motivation to understand the cosmos, with no desire to interfere with their simulations for more selfish reasons. Not a valid assumption ! In fact, it is fairly juvenile to assume both a Sim and a lack of understanding. The programmers of our simulation (Planet Earth circa 21st century) could as easily be teenage students somewhere on a highly advance computer out there in the Chi Sagittarii star group... you know... the ones who coded in the infamous Wow signal 35 years ago... just to spice up the simulation. In fact, based on what we know firsthand - a more likely scenario for the Mr Smiths of our present simulation, is that some kind of a gamer mentality prevails at the highest level - and that a desire to understand the cosmos is ridiculous (their ancestors did that a million years ago). A gamer mentality, where there is some kind of underlying competition ongoing - this also explains why evil often wins, planned or unplanned. Of course, evil is often defined by those who have not succeeded despite thinking they had God on their side. Look how close the Nazi's came. In looking at the more general systemic forces which have been in conflict in humanity since about 1929 (probably the reboot of the current Sim) - which was a seminal year in human progression, it appears now that there could be a basic competition going on between programmers who want to determine which organizational system works best with humanoids to control their productive output. It is not capitalism, not communism, and not totalitarianism, and possibly may not involve our species in the end (except as the progenitors). Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. OTOH, perhaps A.I. itself is more than a meme which is taking over the game, and it will soon expel both the Mr Smiths and the Matrix heroes and neos in favor of a species better able than homo sapiens to progress towards some unknown goal... (such as following instructions)... ours but to do and die ... lordy, lordy what a revolting development this is. :-) From: Blaze Spinnaker http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20 the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%2 0the%20matrix I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). Jones Beene wrote: Thirteenth Floor ... déjà vu all over again There is no defensible answer to what is reality... but if we add Inception to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube ... we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
In reply to Blaze Spinnaker's message of Tue, 26 Nov 2013 20:43:56 -0800: Hi, Once you have opened the box and found the cat to be alive, the chances of it being alive increase dramatically. ;) [snip] http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *Thirteenth Floor *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to what is reality but if we add Inception to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostroms argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostroms is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Of course, the gamers are risking exposure now that A.I. is becoming closer to reality. A.I. may have developed a life (reality) of its own which clears up everything, and possibly within a few decades. I think whether the universe is a simulation is epistemologically inaccessible, unless things were to start to get really weird. Eric
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
The aether, cold fusion, antigravity, free energy is all crazy talk. But maybe reality is a simulation because some movies were made depicting this, well that's totally sensible. Since that isn't a threat to the status quo. Of course the pre-pre-pre-pre matrix version of this were the Gnostics. The problem with the modern version is the the inefficiency is huge. I read something saying that all the computing power in the world could only calculate some infinitesimally small chunk of space. Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Really all of this is just an excuse for the fact that the current model of physics is seriously flawed since it is missing the major part of the picture. John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
Well, there's an argument that this is the solution Fermi's Paradox. That is, where are the aliens? Perhaps there aren't any, because the simulator can only really do earth and that's it. It's like the star trek holodeck, you walk outside the deck and you vanish. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:06 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: The aether, cold fusion, antigravity, free energy is all crazy talk. But maybe reality is a simulation because some movies were made depicting this, well that's totally sensible. Since that isn't a threat to the status quo. Of course the pre-pre-pre-pre matrix version of this were the Gnostics. The problem with the modern version is the the inefficiency is huge. I read something saying that all the computing power in the world could only calculate some infinitesimally small chunk of space. Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Really all of this is just an excuse for the fact that the current model of physics is seriously flawed since it is missing the major part of the picture. John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
That is still ridiculous. What evidence would you expect there to be for aliens that is absent, except for totally open public exposure/disclosure? On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: Well, there's an argument that this is the solution Fermi's Paradox. That is, where are the aliens? Perhaps there aren't any, because the simulator can only really do earth and that's it. It's like the star trek holodeck, you walk outside the deck and you vanish. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:06 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: The aether, cold fusion, antigravity, free energy is all crazy talk. But maybe reality is a simulation because some movies were made depicting this, well that's totally sensible. Since that isn't a threat to the status quo. Of course the pre-pre-pre-pre matrix version of this were the Gnostics. The problem with the modern version is the the inefficiency is huge. I read something saying that all the computing power in the world could only calculate some infinitesimally small chunk of space. Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Really all of this is just an excuse for the fact that the current model of physics is seriously flawed since it is missing the major part of the picture. John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.netwrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
Of course if you want to get stupid about it, if only what we see is rendered in any detail then maybe the microscopic world and atoms stop existing when we aren't looking, and it is all just coarse simulation. And if a tree falls in the forrest and no one is there to hear it... And if I am short sighted and look on a vista it doesn't need to render as sharply because I can't fully appreciated. Now this version of the world might be rendered of a modern computer, sure. but for what point if we are simulated too and not truly conscious? Computers can't gain consciousness (unless the raw materials have it in the first place). though it may be amplified possibly. That is really just logical, though maybe not something that can be argued if someone believes otherwise, only recognized as true. Besides that the question must be asked 'why'? Why simulate something, and what is a simulation anyway? Simulations still exist as physical reality. Play an imersive 3D computer game you could say that it is not real, but the world of the game is physically existent in reality in the processes that are going on in the computer. Soo a simulation isn't unreal, rather it is a particular way of decoding what is going on. Our world looks very different when decoded in a different time scale, size, under different portions on the EM spectrum, or different spectra all together. It would look very strange when looked at with varying the number of dimensions. So simulated if not the right word, the right word would be contrived. Where a world can be created by a set of interlocking mechanisms to produce a desired functioning different to the 'default'. But if this is so, would the contrived reality be contrived by executed by a computer or by creating unusual conditions in space.aether/higgs field that allows different qualities for reality? John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:01 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: That is still ridiculous. What evidence would you expect there to be for aliens that is absent, except for totally open public exposure/disclosure? On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Well, there's an argument that this is the solution Fermi's Paradox. That is, where are the aliens? Perhaps there aren't any, because the simulator can only really do earth and that's it. It's like the star trek holodeck, you walk outside the deck and you vanish. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:06 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: The aether, cold fusion, antigravity, free energy is all crazy talk. But maybe reality is a simulation because some movies were made depicting this, well that's totally sensible. Since that isn't a threat to the status quo. Of course the pre-pre-pre-pre matrix version of this were the Gnostics. The problem with the modern version is the the inefficiency is huge. I read something saying that all the computing power in the world could only calculate some infinitesimally small chunk of space. Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Really all of this is just an excuse for the fact that the current model of physics is seriously flawed since it is missing the major part of the picture. John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.netwrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
Reality is a very hard concept to understand. But there is one thing that is sure, whatever it is, what you now think is reality is just an illusion. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:22 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: Of course if you want to get stupid about it, if only what we see is rendered in any detail then maybe the microscopic world and atoms stop existing when we aren't looking, and it is all just coarse simulation. And if a tree falls in the forrest and no one is there to hear it... And if I am short sighted and look on a vista it doesn't need to render as sharply because I can't fully appreciated. Now this version of the world might be rendered of a modern computer, sure. but for what point if we are simulated too and not truly conscious? Computers can't gain consciousness (unless the raw materials have it in the first place). though it may be amplified possibly. That is really just logical, though maybe not something that can be argued if someone believes otherwise, only recognized as true. Besides that the question must be asked 'why'? Why simulate something, and what is a simulation anyway? Simulations still exist as physical reality. Play an imersive 3D computer game you could say that it is not real, but the world of the game is physically existent in reality in the processes that are going on in the computer. Soo a simulation isn't unreal, rather it is a particular way of decoding what is going on. Our world looks very different when decoded in a different time scale, size, under different portions on the EM spectrum, or different spectra all together. It would look very strange when looked at with varying the number of dimensions. So simulated if not the right word, the right word would be contrived. Where a world can be created by a set of interlocking mechanisms to produce a desired functioning different to the 'default'. But if this is so, would the contrived reality be contrived by executed by a computer or by creating unusual conditions in space.aether/higgs field that allows different qualities for reality? John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:01 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: That is still ridiculous. What evidence would you expect there to be for aliens that is absent, except for totally open public exposure/disclosure? On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Well, there's an argument that this is the solution Fermi's Paradox. That is, where are the aliens? Perhaps there aren't any, because the simulator can only really do earth and that's it. It's like the star trek holodeck, you walk outside the deck and you vanish. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:06 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.comwrote: The aether, cold fusion, antigravity, free energy is all crazy talk. But maybe reality is a simulation because some movies were made depicting this, well that's totally sensible. Since that isn't a threat to the status quo. Of course the pre-pre-pre-pre matrix version of this were the Gnostics. The problem with the modern version is the the inefficiency is huge. I read something saying that all the computing power in the world could only calculate some infinitesimally small chunk of space. Any Computer able to simulate a universe of a given size must be incalculably larger than that universe. Really all of this is just an excuse for the fact that the current model of physics is seriously flawed since it is missing the major part of the picture. John On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://discovermagazine.com/home/issues/2013/dec/09%20do%20we%20live%20in%20the%20matrix#.UpV2cGSOg9w I was thinking that the quantum law that waveforms are not collapsed until observed is a useful law which would come in handy for simulation in terms of load balancing (no need to calculate the waveform until it's actually observed). On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.netwrote: *Thirteenth Floor … *déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… *From:* blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
[Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
http://www.lafayette.edu/about/news/2013/08/16/physicist-silas-beane-88-researches-simulated-reality/ I love articles like this. I’m always interesting in the similarity of physics and the expected architecture of computer / quantum systems. I remember reading about how in SecondLife there was this issue when that people who programmed in the virtual reality scripting language had to deal with different issues at a ‘micro’ or quantum level than they had to deal with at a ‘macro’ level. This was because time (as measured by tics or loops in the computer algs) would miss things when looking for precision at a micro level but not when computed at a macro level (think of darts going through a dart board, for example because the alg wanted to detect as close as possible to surface for a hit). This model (that we live in a simulated reality on a giant quantum computer) might help us start to predict future physical laws. Sent from Windows Mail
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
Many are hoping this universe is just a full dress rehearsal. Maybe the bugs will be removed in the next version. You might find the following video entertaining: Nick Bostrom - The Simulation Argument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnl6nY8YKHs Blaze wrote: http://www.lafayette.edu/about/news/2013/08/16/physicist-silas-beane-88-researches-simulated-reality/ I love articles like this. Iâm always interesting in the similarity of physics and the expected architecture of computer / quantum systems. I remember reading about how in SecondLife there was this issue when that people who programmed in the virtual reality scripting language had to [...]
Re: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet. Sent from Windows Mail From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:40 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Many are hoping this universe is just a full dress rehearsal. Maybe the bugs will be removed in the next version. You might find the following video entertaining: Nick Bostrom - The Simulation Argument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnl6nY8YKHs Blaze wrote: http://www.lafayette.edu/about/news/2013/08/16/physicist-silas-beane-88-researches-simulated-reality/ I love articles like this. I’m always interesting in the similarity of physics and the expected architecture of computer / quantum systems. I remember reading about how in SecondLife there was this issue when that people who programmed in the virtual reality scripting language had to [...]
RE: [Vo]:What if we live in a simulated reality?
Thirteenth Floor … déjà vu all over again. There is no defensible answer to “what is reality”… but if we add “Inception” to this 2005 list, which includes Vanilla Sky, the Matrix films, Minority Report, Dark City and The Cube … we are left with a glimpse of something which defies logic. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02551.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg03702.html …try to get Christopher Nolan to direct it, if you have the screenplay ready… From: blazespinna...@gmail.com If we go by Bostrom’s argument, probability dictates that the next universe will be a dress rehearsal too (bugs included), ala 13th floor. The interesting thing about Bostrom’s is that it also applies to the idea that we (as a species) came from another planet.
