RE: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective.
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? -- John Fields
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. Ed -- John Fields
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:42:02 -0700, you wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. --- I agree. It seems we've decided to become denizens of the swamp, but I was disagreeing with Terry about the deployment being premature, in that even if it is ineffective now, as its efficacy improves and is proven through testing, it will provide another more or less real deterrent to military adventures with the US as a target. However, with one in four of us Earthlings being Chinese, I wonder whether it'll matter much if/when push comes to shove... -- John Fields
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:42:02 -0700, you wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. --- I agree. It seems we've decided to become denizens of the swamp, but I was disagreeing with Terry about the deployment being premature, in that even if it is ineffective now, as its efficacy improves and is proven through testing, it will provide another more or less real deterrent to military adventures with the US as a target. However, with one in four of us Earthlings being Chinese, I wonder whether it'll matter much if/when push comes to shove... I agree, it will not matter much. The world has changed so that using nuclear weapons, except by terrorists, no longer makes sense. Cooperations do not care who wins, just so they make money. In the future, most decisions will be made on this basis. Only when the natives become restless will this approach briefly change. In the future, governments by the people in the US will be only a dream of the young because whomever has the most money will be able to use the tools of advertising to get the voters to support whatever they want. Because the Chinese, in collaboration with the major cooperations, will eventually have the money and will have purchased the mass media, the average person in the US will do what the owners want, buy what they want, and support policies they want. Military force will no longer be needed, at least in the First World. The Third World will be encouraged to fight each other so that the manufactures of weapons will have a buyer. Its amazing how fast a cynical nature has gone from being considered a defect of old age to being just a simple extrapolation of common-place observation. Ed -- John Fields
RE: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Hey Ed + John. Ed writes: Yes, because China is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. Exactly; but doesn't this solve the problem? Red seems not to understand that when our government borrows money to pay for things rather than tax, what it is doing is selling the country to foreign investors. In this case, it's the Chinese who are buying our T-Bills. As you say, this process is accellerating. When the crunch you predict occurs, China will own truly substantial portions of America, so bombing us would make about as much sense as a landlord bombing his apartment complex to force the tenants to pay their back rent. I'm not sure why W. is so anxious to sell off America, perhaps he sees it as a bad investment? Maybe he knows something we don't. K.
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
Ed Storms wrote: John Fields wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:48:27 -0500, you wrote: Dr. Storms wrote: I think you all are missing the point of the missile defense system. It is to defend us from China in 10 years, not NK now. Possibly, however the premature deployment will inhibit only the irrational. China knows it is ineffective. --- And will watch as it's made effective? Yes, because Chine is gaining more by buying the US in contrast to taking. We are giving China the ability to develop its manufacturing infrastructure by going into debt to buy its products. When we run out of money in a few more years and need to use military power to keep China from taking over countries in its part of the world, we will need the missile defense to keep China from implementing a counter threat. The world is not what it seems to be because our government no longer holds truth in high regard. The Cold War is not over. To regard what is happening as a cold war is a misnomer; it is commerce, the action of a market economy, now being played out on a global scale with an intensity and speed without precedent in history. The US abandonment of manufacturing expertise began after WW2 with Deming's visit to Japan and the introduction of statistical quality control. The knowledge of how to do low cost, high quality mechanized production is no longer the property of any country; it can be done anywhere there is the will to do it. Territorial wars over natural resources are a bit obsolete, but we may see wars over water in this century. The idea of the US nuking China's commercial production is a bit absurd. Anyone with a new awareness of China should get a copy of 1421 The Year China Discovered America and also dig into the 1421 website, with Google as your guide. Also get a copy of The Genius of China to get a perspective on how far China's technology was in advance of Europe's in early times. In the 1400s China dominated its world as the US does now, and set out to bring the whole world into its tribute system. They launched an immense fleet of exploration which mapped the world with accurate longitude -- before the Harrison chronometers -- including the Americas and Antartica. When the fleets came home they found the emperor deposed and the mandarin bureaucracy turned inward, erasing a great achievement and setting the stage for China's decline as a world power. China and India are awakening to industrial status and the relative dominance of the US and Europe will wane as these nations adapt our own discoveries. Toynbee decades ago documented the challenge and response of governements to a changing world. The war in Iraq is but one episode; it remains to be seen how all this plays out. Flailing about and demonizing Bush, Islam, or THEM of any color or persuasion will not help; it only blinds the protester. Remember that all this ebb and flow of economic fortune has played out in the US since our founding and development as the largest free market economy in the world. It is now gone global, and there is no going back; the US has not been self sufficient sine the '30s. One of the basic charactersitics of humans is to divide the world into US and THEM on any pretext. Meanwhile remember the Chinese curse May you live in interesting times. Mike Carrell Ed -- John Fields
Re: NK could test TD-2 anytime
Keith wrote I'm not sure why W. is so anxious to sell.. Maybe he knows something we dont. I have pondered that question since year 2001. Perhaps we have 2 Republican parties.. Richard Blank Bkgrd.gif
NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20041217/2004-12-17T200534Z_01_N17264117_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-ARMS-MISSILE-KOREA-DC.html I don't think NK's alleged ballistic weapons are any more of a threat to the US than our missile defense system is to their missiles. :-) Bluff and counter bluff. I don't, however, enjoy a game of poker where I'm one of the stakes.
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:15:22 -0500, you wrote: http://reuters.myway.com/article/20041217/2004-12-17T200534Z_01_N17264117_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-ARMS-MISSILE-KOREA-DC.html I don't think NK's alleged ballistic weapons are any more of a threat to the US than our missile defense system is to their missiles. :-) Bluff and counter bluff. I don't, however, enjoy a game of poker where I'm one of the stakes. --- You're not. ;) -- John Fields
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
At 11:15 AM 12/19/4, Terry Blanton wrote: Bluff and counter bluff. I don't, however, enjoy a game of poker where I'm one of the stakes. You may not be, but, being in Alaska I am a take, or shoudl I say steak? 8^) BTW, during the Cuban missile crisis I hear it was suggested Alaskans might want to leave because Alaska was not defensable. There is more defense here now, but missiles remain a problem. Regards, Horace Heffner
Re: NK Could Test TD-2 Anytime
--- John Fields [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:15:22 -0500, you wrote: I'm one of the stakes. --- You're not. ;) Heck, a TD-1 could hit me with a little luck and a Cuban launch site. __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
