Re: [Vo]:Scam
In reply to Taylor J. Smith's message of Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:30:13 +: Hi, [snip] Perhaps, if you go along with the scam, and give them a completely made up (and wrong) security code, then when they try to make a transaction against your card, it will fail, and set off alarms potentially leading to their capture. Hi All, This is off-topic for vortex, but I think everyone should be aware of this scam. Jack Smith ``Credit Card Scam http://snopes.com/ Snopes.com says this is true. See this site - http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/creditcard.asp This one is pretty slick since they provide YOU with all the information, except the one piece they want [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk mix...@bigpond.com
RE: [Vo]: Scam or no?
SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson You're a riot. Give me a break. I spent an entire 10 hours yesterday replying to emails. My eyes felt like they were generating 10 megawatts of nuclear fission. Paul Lowrance
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Paul, You deserve a break today. Somebody needs a nap. Think I'll take a little lunch snooze myself as well. Sweet dreams. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: SUBJECT: RE: [Vo]: Scam or no? Paul sez: So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance Ya gotta just love those spell checkers. I never new trackers could pull so much wait. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson You're a riot. Give me a break. I spent an entire 10 hours yesterday replying to emails. My eyes felt like they were generating 10 megawatts of nuclear fission. Paul Lowrance --- Steven Vincent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orionworks.com
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jones Beene wrote: They have an electroyzer driven by very high amps off of a beefed up alternator in an auto - they are claiming to be capable of electrolyzing 5 gallons of water per minute (impossible !) and then using only this (part steam part H2 and O2 or Brown's gas) 5 gallons = 19 liters; 19 kg. The heat of vaporization of water is 540 cal/g, so they are claiming at least 42 MJ/min energy production. That is the least amount; actually there would be much more, if a substantial fraction of the water is converted to free H2 and O2. Let's say it is 84 MJ/min. That's equivalent to 2 kg of gasoline a minute, or 1.4 MW. The biggest racing car engines are about 200 kW. 1.4 MW is enough for large railroad locomotive or WWII era fighter aircraft. If you put that much energy into something the size of an automobile engine, it would melt. I vote scam. The claim is preposterous, and the supposed output is off by a factor of 7 or more. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jed Rothwell wrote: I vote scam. The claim is preposterous, and the supposed output is off by a factor of 7 or more. ...more like 70 than 7. Let's say they were electrolyzing 5 gallons per hour, instead of per minute - (this info has been passed around the web enough for typos to be repeated) that is still plenty of gas to power an ICE if much of it was short lived chemical intermediaries, or even some kind of stable capacitance - instead of steam. The transit time from reactor to cylinder is in milliseconds, so even if the capacitance is not stable for much longer - it could somehow be effective. Still there is no indication of anything in independent testing. I was reluctant to post this at all, as I read about it several weeks ago, when it was first put on eBay - and thought it definitely a scam then - but hey - a money back guarantee is something that an adventuresome person (modern-day Feynman) will surely risk - if only to prove them wrong. BTW - in looking deeper at the racing company - there have been complaints about their regular products to the racing market - which are unresolved. Which makes me even more sure that this is a scam... (but always hopeful of being proved wrong). Jones
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Jones Beene wrote: ...more like 70 than 7. Let's say they were electrolyzing 5 gallons per hour, instead of per minute - (this info has been passed around the web enough for typos to be repeated) that is still plenty of gas to power an ICE if much of it was short lived chemical intermediaries, or even some kind of stable capacitance - instead of steam. I suppose 5 gallons per hour would be right on the money for a race car. That would make sense. As you say, it is off by a factor of 70 -- or 60, as in 60 minutes. I was reluctant to post this at all . . . Heck, why? It is on topic. Thanks for sharing it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
- Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Scam or no? 5 gallons = 19 liters; 19 kg. The heat of vaporization of water is 540 cal/g, so they are claiming at least 42 MJ/min energy production. That is the least amount; actually there would be much more, if a substantial fraction of the water is converted to free H2 and O2. Let's say it is 84 MJ/min. That's equivalent to 2 kg of gasoline a minute, or 1.4 MW. The biggest racing car engines are about 200 kW. 1.4 MW is enough for large railroad locomotive or WWII era fighter aircraft. If you put that much energy into something the size of an automobile engine, it would melt. Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454ci big block, 490hp = 365,540 watts. People routinely put blowers and such on these motors, port and polish the heads, etc., 1khp is not unreasonable. Then you are up to 0.75 megawatt. Of course, it gets hot, so you have to have a bloody good cooling system. A time honored trick that helps a lot is to remove the thermostat and let the coolant free-flow. Add an extra belt-driven or electric powered coolant pump, an oversized radiator, and you're good to go. Gives off so much CO2 that polar bears spontaneously combust from the added warming. ;) Point is, 200kW is by no means the biggest engine used for racing or otherwise in automobiles. Is it the biggest you'll probably ever NEED? Probably, and then some. As far as the claims of the whatsit racing company, I have a hard time believing it. 5 gallons of water per minute? Even if you could do this, to burn that much hydrogen in an engine per minute would be insane. If the cylinder head is aluminum, like most these daysBad Juju. --Kyle, Vo's evil mechanic
Re: [Vo]: Scam or no?
Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: Then you are up to 0.75 megawatt. Of course, it gets hot, so you have to have a bloody good cooling system. A time honored trick that helps a lot is to remove the thermostat and let the coolant free-flow. Add an extra belt-driven or electric powered coolant pump, an oversized radiator, and you're good to go. So essentially all the wasted energy ends up in the air. It's amazing how much energy flow air can handle given sufficient air circulation. In tracker pulling competition a single 3K HP (2.2 MegaWatts) engine is no biggie. I was just looking at a tracker with five 3 KHP motors. That's 15 thousands HP, or 11 MegaWatts! Regards, Paul Lowrance
