Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
On 01/31/2011 08:34 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: Steve Krivit came come out with his latest NET #36 issue. Rossi Co. are discussed. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/NET360.shtml Not sure if the following info has already been discussed here or not. See: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/3626-energycatalyzer.shtml Near the end of the interview: PASSERINI. On the Journal of Nuclear Physics [blog], you've stated that a new company has been founded in Athens, Defkalion Energy, which will manufacture catalyzers. Could you tell us some more details? ROSSI. It's a European Newco, affiliated with the largest businesses in the sector. They will issue a press release soon to announce themselves to the public. --- Still, not much. But more than before. Googling on Newco brings up many possible corporate entities. Hard to tell if any of them are the one we're after... Wrong approach. It's not a specific company. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewCo Wiki sez: *NewCo* is a generic name used to refer to corporate spin-offs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_spin-off and startups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company before they are assigned a final name. We now know for sure it's no company anyone's ever heard of because it was established just for this purpose. He wants to mass produce something, with shipments to start in a few months, so he builds his own brand new company to manufacture it, rather than having an established manufacturer do it. Does that make any sense at all? It's certainly not how I'd do it. OTOH if what he wanted were a shell company into which investors' money could be poured, then this approach would make a lot of sense. IMHO the /only/ aspect to all this which doesn't have a bad smell is the calorimetry.
RE: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
From: Stephen A. * Wiki sez: NewCo is a generic name used to refer to corporate spin-offs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_spin-off and startups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company before they are assigned a final name. Curious, eh? . in the homonyminous reverberations g Nuko He wants to mass produce something, with shipments to start in a few months, so he builds his own brand new company to manufacture it, rather than having an established manufacturer do it. Does that make any sense at all? Well, the assumption which you are making (without justification) is that they (the Nuko-Newco) has not already arranged a partnership with a manufacturer of similar products. That kind of pre-arrangement is extremely easy to do in today's market where severe over-capacity and unemployment exist (automobiles, for instance). All it takes is planning. Greece is not known as a manufacturing powerhouse, but a quick check shows that there are a number of companies making trucks and auto parts: Theologou, Biamax, Sfakianakis, Saracakis, Namco, Neorion, ELBO, Petropoulos, Malkotsis, Scavas, AK Hellas, Attica, DIM, AutoDiana, Balkania, MAVA-Renault, MEBEA, Motoemil, Ros, SAM, and Styl Kar. Unemployment in Greece is similar to here - reported to be ~11% but probably half again higher. It is a mistake to sell Rossi short on 'smarts' or pre-planning. He may not be 'from the future', but everything he does so far seems to be well thought-out from the perspective of maximizing the value of his personal wealth in the near term. The problem is: many of us want to see 'altruism' of some kind in this development, such as giving away trade secrets. That is not going to happen. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Greece is not known as a manufacturing powerhouse. . . Nor their work ethics. Ask the Germans. ;-) T
Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
On 01/31/2011 09:44 AM, Jones Beene wrote: *From:* Stephen A. Ø Wiki sez: *NewCo* is a generic name used to refer to corporate spin-offs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_spin-off and startups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company before they are assigned a final name. Curious, eh? ... in the homonyminous reverberations g Nuko He wants to mass produce something, with shipments to start in a few months, so he builds his own brand new company to manufacture it, rather than having an established manufacturer do it. Does that make any sense at all? Well, the assumption which you are making (without justification) is that they (the Nuko-Newco) has not already arranged a partnership with a manufacturer of similar products. That kind of pre-arrangement is extremely easy to do in today's market where severe over-capacity and unemployment exist (automobiles, for instance). All it takes is planning. Sure. In that case, Defkalion is just a shell company, taking money from Leonardo (Rossi's company) on one end and sending it off to the real manufacturer on the other end. To minimize costs, we'd expect the units to be drop shipped from the actual manufacturer to the end user, with no actual contact with Defkalion. And Defkalion looks very dispensable in this scenario. OTOH it's easy to come up with more Enron-ish scenarios in which the role of Defkalion would be much more central. As I said, the /only/ thing that militates against such an interpretation is the calorimetry.
Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
Jones Beene wrote: That kind of pre-arrangement is extremely easy to do in today's market where severe over-capacity and unemployment exist (automobiles, for instance). All it takes is planning. Greece is not known as a manufacturing powerhouse, but a quick check shows that there are a number of companies making trucks and auto parts: Theologou, Biamax, Sfakianakis, Saracakis, Namco, Neorion, ELBO . . . I believe the gadget is being manufactured in the U.S. (I don't recall where I heard that.) There is plenty of overcapacity in the U.S. as well. Also, outsourcing of high-tech industrial production has become common in recent decades. I expect the Ni catalyst is made by some specialized firm. That takes a lot of know-how. - Jed
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
My bet is the New company is mean to assemble the pieces where said pieces are farmed out far and wide... with even a red herring or two to keep copy cats at bay. His Biggest concern is procuring and packaging the secret additive to avoid it's identification for as long as possible. Perhaps he intends to mix the nano powder alloy himself . fran From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:06 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins Jones Beene wrote: That kind of pre-arrangement is extremely easy to do in today's market where severe over-capacity and unemployment exist (automobiles, for instance). All it takes is planning. Greece is not known as a manufacturing powerhouse, but a quick check shows that there are a number of companies making trucks and auto parts: Theologou, Biamax, Sfakianakis, Saracakis, Namco, Neorion, ELBO . . . I believe the gadget is being manufactured in the U.S. (I don't recall where I heard that.) There is plenty of overcapacity in the U.S. as well. Also, outsourcing of high-tech industrial production has become common in recent decades. I expect the Ni catalyst is made by some specialized firm. That takes a lot of know-how. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Possibly more on DEFKALION's origins
On 01/31/2011 11:03 AM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: My bet is the New company is mean to assemble the pieces where said pieces are farmed out far and wide... In which case you're back to assuming Rossi is setting up a brand new assembly line and manufacturing facility. If the new entity is doing anything more than just pasting shipping labels on pre-boxed units, he's got a big job to do in establishing the new company, and it's an unnecessary job, as that work could have been farmed out. with even a red herring or two to keep copy cats at bay. God, I hope not! That's nuts! Make a hard problem even harder just to try to provide a little security by obfuscation, and buy perhaps an extra week or two while the competition figures out the trick? His Biggest concern is procuring and packaging the secret additive to avoid it's identification for as long as possible. Perhaps he intends to mix the nano powder alloy himself . And what's he going to do, post a guard in every customer's shop to be sure nobody cracks open the case and analyzes the powder? (Some of the folks who will want to know how it works already have more guards than Rossi could ever hire.) If this works, there is no way under heaven he's going to prevent the secret from getting out. License agreements and NDAs won't mean s--t when it comes to protecting the knowledge on something this big. The importance of this knowledge is on the same general order as the knowledge of how to build a hydrogen bomb. Even the U.S. government couldn't protect /that/ knowledge, and they've got a lot more counter-espionage capabilities than lone-worker Rossi. He may be able to collect licensing fees for a good long while, but there is absolutely no way he's going to keep the rest of the world in the dark as to how these things work. The biggest red flag is how casually this is being treated.
