Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 06 May 2011 12:56:56 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Deuterium is cheap, but helium-3 is potentially worth a fortune. If they >can tune cells to crank that out, that might be fantastic! I do not >think we would need He3 reactors for ordinary applications if we have >cold fusion, but I gather that for specialized applications such as >spacecraft it would have many advantages. I do not know much about it. I suspect because:- D + He3 => He4 + P + 18.35 MeV Lots of energy, the reactants are light weight, and the end products are both positive ions that are easy to control and direct. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 6 May 2011 06:47:51 -0700: Hi, [snip] >-Original Message- >From: mix...@bigpond.com > >>Ed Storms suggests: > >>H-e-H --> D > >The problem with this one is that the energy is all taken by the neutrino > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction#The_pep_re >action > > >Robin, > >Yes. As far back as 1996 Mitchell Swartz concluded that this is possible, >but essentially hopeless for substantial energy production in "Possible >Deuterium Production from Light Water Excess Enthalpy Experiments Using >Nickel Cathodes", Journal New Energy volume 1, 3, 68-79 (1996). > >If the energy seen by Rossi were due to P-e-P, he could make a lot more >money selling the deuterium than providing heat ;) ...unless of course it is followed by a CF reaction of the D. > >... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank >seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting >the ash ? nah... > >The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but think about it, >do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative price the new gold >rush? > >Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why BLP has not >countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be flush with new money, >then one need only imagine the price he can get from DoD/NASA for harvested >Hy for use as either weapons or propellant. ...If NASA believed enough in Hydrinos to buy them from Mills, they would probably be making their own. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Fri, 6 May 2011 07:53:43 -0400: Hi, [snip] >On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:22 PM, wrote: > >> Electron annihilation doesn't produce a 1.22 MeV photon. It produces two 511 >> keV >> photons (180 deg. apart). > >I knew that. What I should have said was 1.22 MeV of energy. Which >would also be wrong since the spin energy has to go somewhere. Where >does it go? > >T I don't think free electrons have any spin, but I'm probably the only one who thinks so. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > Really? what does it cost in Atlanta ? When you are drinking single malt scotch, you should always use heavy water ice cubes. T
RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
-Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell > Actually, seriously, deuterium is pretty cheap ... Really? what does it cost in Atlanta ? ...or is 'pretty cheap' more a reflection of your excellent financial health ? Neither heavy water nor D2 could be called a bargain out here. Online, D2O from http://unitednuclear.com/chem.htm goes for $70.00 per 100 grams or $600.00 liter...making the D2 gas content about ~$5000/kg plus the extraction cost, if you want to go that way. $5/gram seems to be the going rate for bottles too, at least to small volume users. A welding supplier around here charges $300 for a lecture bottle containing 50 liters. This is the lowest grade - 99%. If Rossi's cells each consume one gram of H2 a day, as he claims, and he harvests the deuterium for resale - let's see: then the 300 cells in the Greek factory will be making over 100,000 grams per year... enough to cover the overhead, and not too shabby. This would probably cause Homeland Security to take a close look, if it were in the USA. However, to retreat back to the real M.O. - I doubt seriously if the Rossi effect is the conversion of hydrogen to deuterium. (but it has not been ruled out) Jones
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Jones Beene wrote: If the energy seen by Rossi were due to P-e-P, he could make a lot more money selling the deuterium than providing heat ;) ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting the ash ? nah... Actually, seriously, deuterium is pretty cheap, and it will get a lot cheaper if: 1. Cheap cold fusion energy becomes available, since most of the cost of extracting it is for energy. 2. There is a demand for it. There will be no demand with Rossi-style cold fusion, but if some other demand emerges, extraction technology can easily be improved. See the pilot plant photo in my book. Deuterium is cheap, but helium-3 is potentially worth a fortune. If they can tune cells to crank that out, that might be fantastic! I do not think we would need He3 reactors for ordinary applications if we have cold fusion, but I gather that for specialized applications such as spacecraft it would have many advantages. I do not know much about it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
>From Jones: ... > ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the > deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating > that he could be harvesting the ash ? nah... > > The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but > think about it, do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative > price the new gold rush? > > Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why > BLP has not countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be > flush with new money, then one need only imagine the price he > can get from DoD/NASA for harvested Hy for use as either weapons > or propellant. Jones, you suffer from the same affliction that I suspect I'm cursed with: I think you tend to over-speculate! IOW, you think too much. ;-) I hope you don't take any real offense from this personal observation of mine. I'm only trying to suggest: It takes one to know one. Please note that being cursed with such an affliction hasn't stopped me from reading your unique take on recent events. I suspect your unique perceptions tend to augment my own fermentation processes. You certainly have a better grasp of the physics than I. Guinness anyone? PS: Keep updating the list! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
-Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com >Ed Storms suggests: >H-e-H --> D The problem with this one is that the energy is all taken by the neutrino http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction#The_pep_re action Robin, Yes. As far back as 1996 Mitchell Swartz concluded that this is possible, but essentially hopeless for substantial energy production in "Possible Deuterium Production from Light Water Excess Enthalpy Experiments Using Nickel Cathodes", Journal New Energy volume 1, 3, 68-79 (1996). If the energy seen by Rossi were due to P-e-P, he could make a lot more money selling the deuterium than providing heat ;) ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting the ash ? nah... The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but think about it, do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative price the new gold rush? Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why BLP has not countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be flush with new money, then one need only imagine the price he can get from DoD/NASA for harvested Hy for use as either weapons or propellant. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:22 PM, wrote: > Electron annihilation doesn't produce a 1.22 MeV photon. It produces two 511 > keV > photons (180 deg. apart). I knew that. What I should have said was 1.22 MeV of energy. Which would also be wrong since the spin energy has to go somewhere. Where does it go? T
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Robin, I agree that if anti-matter has positive mass there can't be any in an H nucleus. But I'm not sure anti-matters mass is proven to be positive experimentally. If Mill's 5th force experiment is correct then gravitational mass doesn't equal inertial mass and all bets are off. If you search "Anti-Hydrogen" CERN is planning an experiment to test its action in a gravitational field. In any case Brightsen's model is interesting for all of the other correct predictions it makes and may also offer a mechanism for the transmutation of Ni to Cu without the expected radioactivity. If you are interested. His nephew, Robert Davic, sent me all of his published papers as pdf''s I would be happy to share them with you, as I don't have the background to really dig into them critically. Ron --On Friday, May 06, 2011 1:08 PM +1000 mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 09:55:57 -0700: Hi, [snip] 15) The Brightsen model of "antimatter clusters" within the H nucleus. I have never given this much credence, because anti-matter has positive mass, so his nuclei would weigh too much. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 18:28:59 -0400: Hi, [snip] >On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > >> Positron annihilation would have been seen by V&B, and one of their meters >> was designed for that. > >Ah, but was it averaging or reading in real time? Remember "The >Event" in the January test? The anecdotal 1.22 MeV photon may be >opening a dimensional gateway for all we know which kickstarts a >continuous reaction. Electron annihilation doesn't produce a 1.22 MeV photon. It produces two 511 keV photons (180 deg. apart). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 05 May 2011 14:51:34 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Ed Storms suggests: > >H-e-H --> D > >- Jed The problem with this one is that the energy is all taken by the neutrino (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction#The_pep_reaction). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 09:55:57 -0700: Hi, [snip] >15) The Brightsen model of "antimatter clusters" within the H nucleus. I have never given this much credence, because anti-matter has positive mass, so his nuclei would weigh too much. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 08:44:02 -0700: Hi, [snip] >13) This floor is always missing ..or just the exit as the elevator goes past? ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
I had a dream the other night about quantum weapons. These would be weapons which utilize "the observer" to collapse wave equations at will. Now, use your imagination on this one. Ever see "Wizards"? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076929/ It had a remarkable ending when the good wizard, brother to the bad wizard, explained the trick that their mother had taught to only the good wizard. Anyone remember the trick? T
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > Positron annihilation would have been seen by V&B, and one of their meters > was designed for that. Ah, but was it averaging or reading in real time? Remember "The Event" in the January test? The anecdotal 1.22 MeV photon may be opening a dimensional gateway for all we know which kickstarts a continuous reaction. I think we are nowhere near the box on this one. And, the cat + the cat's ghost have escaped with the ECat. I think 16 is getting close; but, 17 is closer. T
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
I got an update from Ed on this reaction, and I will work it into the list on the next update. > Yes, but I wonder if Ed knows of a version that does not release a > positron? > Positron annihilation would have been seen by V&B, and one of their > meters > was designed for that. > On the #2 spot on the list, this reaction is listed without the > electron > mentioned, but with the preface saying that any of these reactions > could be > screened, i.e. by the Heffner deflated electron. > -Original Message- > From: Jed Rothwell > > Ed Storms suggests: > > H-e-H --> D > > - Jed > > >
RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Yes, but I wonder if Ed knows of a version that does not release a positron? Positron annihilation would have been seen by V&B, and one of their meters was designed for that. On the #2 spot on the list, this reaction is listed without the electron mentioned, but with the preface saying that any of these reactions could be screened, i.e. by the Heffner deflated electron. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell Ed Storms suggests: H-e-H --> D - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Ed Storms suggests: H-e-H --> D - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
17) IFM
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Good work-in-progress compilation Jones. Thanks for "volunteering". It's astonishing to me to see the number of different theories being explored. Some obviously have at present garnered more respect than others. But who really knows at present what combination of the above (or perhaps none at all) will be the final winner. It could take decades... as you say "a work-in-progress". The lords of Science have their work cut out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
A few additions and improvements. The Modus Operandi List Anyone approaching Ni-H from a theoretical perspective may benefit from a list of possible "gainful routes" which are either non-nuclear, "new-nuclear", supra-chemical, or a hybrid. Many of these processes can overlap or can be applied partially with others. All of the new physics reactions can be augmented (screened) by deflated electrons (Heffner) or lochons (Meulenberg). In addition, deflated electrons or lochons can be involved in supra-chemical reactions. 1) Nickel-to-copper "new-nuclear" with little or no radioactivity. This comes under 'new' because all known transmutations of nickel to copper at the kW level would leave deadly levels of radioactivity. 2) H+H --> D "new-nuclear" comes under 'new' because all known fusion of hydrogen to deuterium involve a positron, which is not seen. 3) W&L ultra low momentum neutron. Clearly comes under 'new' but the lack of predicted radioactivity makes it seem unlikely for Rossi. There are several 'virtual neutron' hypotheses which are similar. 4) Multibody H reactions: H+H+H+H etc. This is new physics and could explain helium or other light elements if they are discovered. 5) Cavity QED "only". Hydrogen enters Casimir cavity, gains energy from ZPE. No ash. 6) Cavity QED with nuclear makeup. Essentially these two involve asymmetric chemistry, the later leading to nuclear reaction which are stimulated by a prior energy deficit, and thus no residual radioactivity. 7) Mills' hydrino 8) "Antenna" for dark energy - hydrogen is changed (IRH), or contained, in such a way in nanopores that it acts like an antenna for dark energy. This can overlap with 5,6 9) "Antenna" for neutrinos - hydrogen is changed or contained in such a way that it acts like an antenna for neutrino interaction. 10) Ballotechnic. Inner orbital chemistry, with or without a nuclear makeup reaction. Can be similar to 5,6 11) Dirac "sea of negative energy" ... in conjunction with 5,6,8 or 9. If UV radiation in the range of 6.8 eV is documented, this one will be important. 12) Shoulders' EVO. Not sure exactly how this could be applied to Rossi. 13) This floor is always missing 14) "Quark Soup" - a quark-level reorganization of IRH 15) The Brightsen model of "antimatter clusters" within the H nucleus. 16) Some variation of the quantum gravity explanation in several papers on Rossi's blog A work-in-progress <>
