Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

[Harry Veeder]

Fran,
I think this would require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics.

Harry

On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

>  Harry,
>
> I am ok with COE remaining a law but the “convention” that
> HUP can never be tapped needs to be stricken. My point is that the random
> forces normally cancelled in the macro world become organized by casimir
> geometry and can provide an exploitable bias from zero point energy.
>
> Fran  
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 04, 2013 2:48 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!
> 
>
> ** **
>
> It might be possible to develop "realistic" models which explain these
> things if CoE is demoted from a law to a convention
>
> or should a law always take precedence over intelligibility
> and experience? 
>
>  
>
> Harry   
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:33 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint 
> wrote:
>
> So, out of all the erudite Vorts, no one can answer the following simple
> questions:
>
> Why are the UP-spin quarks on OPPOSITE sides of the proton from the
> DOWN-spin quarks???
>
> Why do...
>  "All spin directions collapse on one or the OPPOSITE direction depending
> on
> the measured photon polarization." ???
>
> Why, in some nuclear interactions, do two gammas go shooting off in
> OPPOSITE
> directions???
>
> Where is the physical model that explains the REASON for these basic
> observations???
>
> Why is the magnetic field PERPENDICULAR to the E-field???
> It's all related...
>
> -Mark (the reluctant hijackee) Iverson
>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

[mixent]

In reply to  Roarty, Francis X's message of Thu, 4 Apr 2013 18:58:33 +:
Hi,
[snip]
>Harry,
>I am ok with COE remaining a law but the "convention" that HUP 
> can never be tapped needs to be stricken. My point is that the random forces 
> normally cancelled in the macro world become organized by casimir geometry 
> and can provide an exploitable bias from zero point energy.
>Fran

...organized forces seems to imply a net force acting on the object. You may
just have invented Cavorite. ;)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

[Roarty, Francis X]

Harry,
I am ok with COE remaining a law but the "convention" that HUP 
can never be tapped needs to be stricken. My point is that the random forces 
normally cancelled in the macro world become organized by casimir geometry and 
can provide an exploitable bias from zero point energy.
Fran

From: Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 2:48 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

It might be possible to develop "realistic" models which explain these things 
if CoE is demoted from a law to a convention
or should a law always take precedence over intelligibility and experience?

Harry

On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:33 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint 
mailto:zeropo...@charter.net>> wrote:
So, out of all the erudite Vorts, no one can answer the following simple
questions:

Why are the UP-spin quarks on OPPOSITE sides of the proton from the
DOWN-spin quarks???

Why do...
 "All spin directions collapse on one or the OPPOSITE direction depending on
the measured photon polarization." ???

Why, in some nuclear interactions, do two gammas go shooting off in OPPOSITE
directions???

Where is the physical model that explains the REASON for these basic
observations???

Why is the magnetic field PERPENDICULAR to the E-field???
It's all related...

-Mark (the reluctant hijackee) Iverson

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 6:39 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!


There seems to be two different overlapping threads going on here, since
Mark's original suggestion relating to subatomic quark resonance was
hijacked (by moi) in favor of another related subject: "lack of gammas" in
LENR. Apologies for that.

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

[Roarty, Francis X]

David,
Gammas that "never" happened  might be hidden by relativistic effects.. how 
much Gamma radiation would the near C paradox twin see? Or more appropriately 
how much radiation would a twin standing on an event horizon see? What does 
time dilation do the radiation? The large displacement of an equivalent 
acceleration gravity well or the near luminal speeds of a spacecraft are needed 
to compress spacetime in a Haisch- Rueda type theory [car accelerating into 
rainfall].. the suppression afforded by the Casimir geometry subtracts from 
said Haisch-Rueda rainfall analogy making a much quicker cheaper way to create 
a difference in what Puthoff calls vacuum pressure[rainfall], [ether] ..it is 
the same Pythagorean relationship between time and space without the energy 
requirements but in a negative direction. The Pythagorean elationship also 
brings into argument the radiation path since the the spatial -temporal axis 
perceived by the relativistic protons are out of phase with the spatial- 
temporal  axis we are experiencing here in the macro [unsupressed] world 
outside the NAE. Would the radiation propagate out away from a reaction forever 
trapped in that inertial frame shunted past us along what we perceive as the 
temporal axis or does the radiation experience a lorentzian translation as the 
compression mitigates with distance from the confinement?
Fran

From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:07 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!


>In the end, it should be crystal clear to anyone who understands nuclear

engineering - that there is no possible way to adequately explain the lack

of gammas in LENR - other than that they never happened at all.
I agree with you Jones.  The only way to explain this process is to assume that 
the gammas are not emitted at any time and that the energy from the reactions 
is shared among the atoms surrounding it.  I have been looking for evidence 
that fusion can take place in the compact environment of a cold fusion NAE in a 
manner that is very different from that occurring within a plasma.  The system 
difference is evident and I have not seem papers describing known fusion events 
recorded within a metal matrix where gammas are emitted at the expected levels.

I proposed an experiment where a palladium cube loaded with deuterium is 
subjected to a flux of muons as a way to induce conditions that are known to 
result in fusion.  If this does not result in the release of a number of 
gammas, then evidence is obtained that fusion within a metal matrix is 
different than that occurring within a gas.  Of course, muon induced fusion 
might behave differently than normal LENR activity.  The more clues that we 
obtain about the behavior of LENR, the faster we can understand the mechanism.

Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>>
To: vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>>
Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 10:33 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A pile of clues... should be obvious by now!

Mark,



Some of us only see a duck as a "downer" (cough, cough)



Anyway, and from one fringe-of-the-fringe LENR perspective, this has "strong

force interaction" written all over it, whether it is obvious to W-L

proponents or not.



RPF(reversible proton fusion) would certainly interact with its surrounds

via spin (magnons) and would shuttle from one state (Helium-2) to another

(two protons) with only quark interactions to show for the experience. The

net energy deposited (or removed) is small per event, but happens at the

rate of blackbody phonon vibration (mid terahertz).



Thus even micro(eV) energy change per event can get amplified rapidly, if

and when asymmetry is engineered into the reaction.



... hmmm... I'm now thinking of calling "quark color-change" as seen in RPF

as the "quark-quack" reaction ... nothing there but spin, so to speak...

thus giving detractors the satisfaction of calling the theory as

quack-derived ... yet all the while, the other LENR theories are falling

like ducks ... simply due to the obvious: not being able to adequately

explain lack of gammas.



In the end, it should be crystal clear to anyone who understands nuclear

engineering - that there is no possible way to adequately explain the lack

of gammas in LENR - other than that they never happened at all.



Jones



   From: MarkI-ZeroPoint



   The evidence is piling up that subatomic 'particles' are

dipole-like structures, and likely a type of dipole oscillation...

   Looks, sounds, feels and quacks just like one...

   ;-)

   HTSITYS,

   -Mark

   [darn pics made msg too large so had to delete the piccys]

   ---



   Researchers suggest one can affect an atom's spin by

adjusting the way it is measured

   http:/