Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take this to mean I think the effect can't be real. As always, experiment trumps theory. I'm just pointing out that if the effect _is_ real, then it is revolutionary on a far more fundamental level than such mundane effects as cold fusion, gravity shielding, or even most proposed methods for harnessing ZPE. Hi Stephen, That worries me as I know what I'm seeing in devices I have built and can publically demo. Maybe the source of the energy can be explained without wasting so much paper and dried ink. What I do know is that you can drop the ball vertically from the entry position, without magnets and measure the KE delivered in a fall to a level reference plane, then replace the ball at the entry point and allow it to do the climb, drop and fall to the the same entry plane. The measured final exit KE is not significantly different to the calculated exit PE. This to me indicates there has been very little effective magnetic dragback. I have built pure rotary devices (yes it can be done) but the load curve is lousy as well as it is difficult to control RPM when the load changes. No feedback control loops. Please have a look at the JLN / Prof Clauzon data on the site which strongly supports the effective dragback less exit. Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Hi Greg, You write: What I do know is that you can drop the ball vertically from the entry position, without magnets and measure the KE delivered in a fall to a level reference plane, then replace the ball at the entry point and allow it to do the climb, drop and fall to the the same entry plane. The measured final exit KE is not significantly different to the calculated exit PE. This to me indicates there has been very little effective magnetic dragback. OK, thanks for the capsule summary. I would disagree that this is really novel from your first experiments, but let's put that aside for the moment and focus on the experiment. How much energy is required to push the ball back to the starting position? It's trivial to redirect the ball, recovering the kinetic energy. That's your input energy. Pushing the ball under the ramp will no doubt take some energy. Making the ball go around the ramp in a big loop will also take energy, although this may not be as clear or easy to measure as the first method. Start with the first method, and experimentally determine the energy. You have two gradients, one magnetic, one gravitational. The vectors are complex as the gradients are not parallel and equal at all points. Yet, you should pretty easily experimentally determine if you've got extra energy if you do the last bit. Also, like many people on this list, due to the list software and my email client, hitting the reply button sends mail to me. Be assured, if you receive something from me, it's coming from the list, and it's best to reply there. Thanks. K.
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Keith Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy is required to push the ball back to the starting position? It's trivial to redirect the ball, recovering the kinetic energy. That's your input energy. Pushing the ball under the ramp will no doubt take some energy. Making the ball go around the ramp in a big loop will also take energy, although this may not be as clear or easy to measure as the first method. Start with the first method, and experimentally determine the energy. Hi Keith, The first job is to adjust the ramp parameters until the measurement system indicates the best final exit KE. Then take the magnets away, place the ball at the top of the exit and let it drop. If it can't make it back to the lower starting place then either you need to reduce frictional losses or increase the lift. Anyway once you know you can get a rollaround without the magnets, replace them and again adjust the exit position for the best final KE that is similiar to the calculated KE from a magnetless drop. You should then be able to observe a closed loop demo. I'm working on a simple to build / replicate single ramp, ball return system and expect to post a video in the next week or so. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Hi Greg, I'm working on a simple to build / replicate single ramp, ball return system and expect to post a video in the next week or so. Keep us posted. I expect that last inch will be challenging, if you're going under the ramp. Say, with tongue firmly in cheek, might I suggest the moniker Sisyphus rather than Prometheus? K.
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I ask again is the PROMETHEUS EFFECT? I only know that Prometheus showed man how to use fire. So What is his effect?-ges Hi, The Prometheus Effect allows a permanent magnet to lift a ferromagnetic mass against gravity and then to cause it to be released (with no significant magnetic dragback) while retaining the PE gained by the lift. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Prometheus Effect wrote: The Prometheus Effect allows a permanent magnet to lift a ferromagnetic mass against gravity and then to cause it to be released (with no significant magnetic dragback) while retaining the PE gained by the lift. Does the height of lift vary with the particular planet? Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, sigh Innin everthin?
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the height of lift vary with the particular planet? Hi Terry, Sure does ;-) Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Terry Blanton wrote: Prometheus Effect wrote: The Prometheus Effect allows a permanent magnet to lift a ferromagnetic mass against gravity and then to cause it to be released (with no significant magnetic dragback) while retaining the PE gained by the lift. Does the height of lift vary with the particular planet? It varies depending on whether Maxwell's equations apply on the particular planet where the effect is being measured. It's maximized on planets where Maxwell is completely wrong, and goes to zero on a sliding scale as we approach planets on which Maxwell's equations are exactly correct. To the extent that it's observable on Earth, careful analysis will reveal that, if Maxwell's static equations are correct, then either the principle of superposition or the concept of a retarded potential must not be exactly correct, as they can be used to extrapolate macroscopic conservation of energy from the reasonably well understood interactions of a single pair of charged particles. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, You betcha. That, plus a bit of time rewriting a few physics books -- and it might be a good idea to take a quick look at some thermo texts that may need some revising as well. Please don't take this to mean I think the effect can't be real. As always, experiment trumps theory. I'm just pointing out that if the effect _is_ real, then it is revolutionary on a far more fundamental level than such mundane effects as cold fusion, gravity shielding, or even most proposed methods for harnessing ZPE.
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
What I ask again is the PROMETHEUS EFFECT? I only know that Prometheus showed man how to use fire. So What is his effect?-ges
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
What is the Prometheus effect? From what I have read Prometheus is the Greek god who took fire from the Gods on MT. Olympus and gave it to man-for which he was punished by Zeus.- GES
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prometheus_Effect/post?postID=wS7RExUDCndfXmYvZIvhlgpURfED_3ieTjh8_52LK3X4LUy80vgRewPfkmdDQE82l0kHamv1z_W9VsX3Ir8VRtbBJHdyAwlkJlQq7w[EMAIL PROTECTED], overunity2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: do the loop at least 5 times in a row until the ball had so much speed, that it jumpedout of the track and stuck to the ramps. What's the current best record for number of roll-arounds (or time length in operation) with multiple ramps in the closed-loop configuration? ((( ( ((o)) ) ))) William J. Beaty http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/ Research Engineer UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph:206-543-6195 fax:206-685-8665
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Wouldn't you know, I mentioned SMOT a few days ago, and who should reappear, but Greg Watson... Beetlegeuse beetlegeuse beetlegeuse! For those looking for refunds from our last go around, try his list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prometheus_Effect He's blaming Vortex in particular for misleading him into trying to close the loop. Not to worry Greg, the reality based community has long since vanished. K. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits What is the Prometheus effect? From what I have read Prometheus is the Greek god who took fire from the Gods on MT. Olympus and gave it to man-for which he was punished by Zeus.- GES
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Hi Terry, In the message I gave you credit for the stepped magnet arrays used my some SMOT builders but I will remove the message as requested. All the best, Greg Watson Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Hi Greg; There is no need to blame anyone, yourself or this list. You know what needs to be done. You're an intelligent and articulate person. Make the measurements, design the closed loop system, and post the results. I understand that these projects are a long hard slog, and I admire your persistance. But we're long past discussing the relative merits of energy measurement. If you are seeing 30-50% gain as I believe you mention elsewhere on the lists ( correct me if I'm wrong ) then close the loop. If you can't, then the measurements are wrong. The key thing is, we can _never_ convince you of that fact. The experiment must do that. If there are specific problems that arise, do post about them, and perhaps you can generate some positive discussion here. Below, you suggest a solution to your earlier problems with SMOT. Am I missing something? What's preventing you from just implementing your solution? Also, I personally would very much like to hear about your opinions regarding US4215330? Is this not SMOT? Have you made any attempts to contact Mr Hartman? There are other patents as well. Why did these other devices fail? K. -Original Message- From: Prometheus Effect [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits --- Keith Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldn't you know, I mentioned SMOT a few days ago, and who should reappear, but Greg Watson... Beetlegeuse beetlegeuse beetlegeuse! For those looking for refunds from our last go around, try his list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prometheus_Effect He's blaming Vortex in particular for misleading him into trying to close the loop. Not to worry Greg, the reality based community has long since vanished. Hi Keith, That was not what I said. I blame myself for letting demands to close the loop unfocus me from understanding what is going on with the Prometheus Effect. I have now released details of the measurement system and testing protocol which do indeed prove the Prometheus Effect at the heart of the SMOT device is OU. Basically the Prometheus Effect allows a steel ball to be lifted up by a magnetic field against gravity and then for the ball to drop / exit from the magnetic field with little magnetic dragback while retaining ALL the PE gained during the lift. I lost focus when I started chasing retaining the KE gained during the ramp climb. It is really about using up all the ramp climb gained KE to punch through the end array magnetic dragback to reach the exit Sweet Spot and do a vitrual dragback less exit. There is ample data, photos, videos, independent verification, etc to prove the Prometheus Effect allows virtually dragback less exits. Have a look. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Mr. Watson (I presume), You have mentioned my name in msg #150 on your forum, please to remove it. I admire your affinity for acronyms, particularly PEPMM but your partial disclosure demands a total disclosure if you plan to patent your product here in the GOUSA, IMO, however, IANAL. This is *not* a casual request. Terry %copyright% Prometheus Effect wrote: --- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Keith Nagel wrote: To deal with Nature, we have to match its level of ruthless honesty.
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Prometheus Effect wrote: Or is this just another of those measurement OU claims which cannot self-act to perform continuous work (minutes or hours long) against friction? Hi Bill, Please checkout the data on the site. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
