Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only
part of the the powder is in an active state.
If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over
time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an
e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months.
Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende:
The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum
effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That
means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment
tube are the same temperature (exothermic).
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset
robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat.
It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Rossi must keep the COP at or below 6 to avoid reaction meltdown. The LENR reaction must be controlled to avoid the disruption consequences of infinite COP. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only part of the the powder is in an active state. If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months. Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
I am aware.
But to keep COP of 6 this either means over time, due to the reduced amount
of nickel ( it is slowly 'consumed') the temperature of the remaining
nickel has to be increased, or, the available nickel is only a part of the
nickel is active at the time.
If the temperature of the reduced amound of nickel has to be increased,
this means more input power is required for the same amount of output heat
and therefore COP get less over time.
Op maandag 10 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende:
Rossi must keep the COP at or below 6 to avoid reaction meltdown. The LENR
reaction must be controlled to avoid the disruption consequences of
infinite COP.
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Teslaalset
robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com');
wrote:
I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only
part of the the powder is in an active state.
If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over
time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an
e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months.
Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil
(janap...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'janap...@gmail.com');)
het volgende:
The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum
effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That
means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment
tube are the same temperature (exothermic).
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset
robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote:
Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat.
It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
I suspect that the COP of 6 has more to do with the timing of the control drive signals than the behavior of the powder. Positive feedback appears to establish the COP and that can be adjusted with control. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Jun 10, 2013 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes I am aware. But to keep COP of 6 this either means over time, due to the reduced amount of nickel ( it is slowly 'consumed') the temperature of the remaining nickel has to be increased, or, the available nickel is only a part of the nickel is active at the time. If the temperature of the reduced amound of nickel has to be increased, this means more input power is required for the same amount of output heat and therefore COP get less over time. Op maandag 10 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: Rossi must keep the COP at or below 6to avoid reaction meltdown. The LENR reaction must be controlled to avoid thedisruption consequences of infinite COP. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only part of the the powder is in an active state. If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months. Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
The positive feedback loop can be controlled if the reaction time of the reaction control system is faster than the reaction time of the positive feedback cycle. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:21 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I suspect that the COP of 6 has more to do with the timing of the control drive signals than the behavior of the powder. Positive feedback appears to establish the COP and that can be adjusted with control. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Jun 10, 2013 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes I am aware. But to keep COP of 6 this either means over time, due to the reduced amount of nickel ( it is slowly 'consumed') the temperature of the remaining nickel has to be increased, or, the available nickel is only a part of the nickel is active at the time. If the temperature of the reduced amound of nickel has to be increased, this means more input power is required for the same amount of output heat and therefore COP get less over time. Op maandag 10 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: Rossi must keep the COP at or below 6 to avoid reaction meltdown. The LENR reaction must be controlled to avoid the disruption consequences of infinite COP. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only part of the the powder is in an active state. If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months. Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Your criteria must be achieved if Rossi is telling the truth. I am not sure of how many aces he has up his sleeve. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Jun 10, 2013 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes The positive feedback loop can be controlled if the reaction time of the reaction control system is faster than the reaction time of the positive feedback cycle. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:21 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I suspect that the COP of 6 has more to do with the timing of the control drive signals than the behavior of the powder. Positive feedback appears to establish the COP and that can be adjusted with control. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Jun 10, 2013 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes I am aware. But to keep COP of 6 this either means over time, due to the reduced amount of nickel ( it is slowly 'consumed') the temperature of the remaining nickel has to be increased, or, the available nickel is only a part of the nickel is active at the time. If the temperature of the reduced amound of nickel has to be increased, this means more input power is required for the same amount of output heat and therefore COP get less over time. Op maandag 10 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: Rossi must keep the COP at or below 6to avoid reaction meltdown. The LENR reaction must be controlled to avoid thedisruption consequences of infinite COP. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder wether all present powder will be active at once. It seems only part of the the powder is in an active state. If all powder is in an active state all the time, COP will decrease over time as the material is 'consumed'. This would mean, in the case of an e-cat, COP is only 6 in the initial time period of the indicated 6 months. Op zondag 9 juni 2013 schreef Axil Axil (janap...@gmail.com) het volgende: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
By the way, one of the reasons that the helium cooled pebble bed reactor design never made it in the utility nuclear reactor marketplace was its poor power density and “economies of scale” characteristics compared to light water reactor designs. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I have spent a good deal of time thinking about fission reactor design and I have some opinions as these ideas apply to large scale LENR power stations. What makes for a competitive and cost effective reactor design is copious power density. When you try to sell a reactor design to an electric utility, they want “economies of scale”. That term implies that the most power should be produced from the least possible volume. One important means that a large scale LENR can be the most economical is to produce the most power from the least material and space. Rossi’s shipping container idea is not a good one because the power density derived from that design is pathetic. One way to get the power density up is to use heat pipes to move heat out of the reaction chamber and into the customer’s application. Have you ever considered using heat pipes in any future LENR reactor designs? Today, heat pipes are used in a good many non-water mediated fission reactor designs. Some of the Indian designs use heat pipes for passive cooling after shutdown. As an example of this point, an interesting product concept was the tub reactor. The heat pipe was the interface between the reactor and the customer. Unfortunately, this reactor design was discontinued because of the great expense of getting it certified by the NRC were only light water reactor designs are considered. But the concept was very attractive as a retrofit for fossil energy based power station replacements such as coal fired power generators and concrete plants. The heat pipe can support high temperature process heat. Such a heat transfer concept has an open ended heat range based on the material used as the transfer fluid. Vapor to/from liquid phase transition used in heat pipes are 1000 times more efficient than liquid coolants. That means that a reactor core element can be 1000 time smaller than it currently is. All things being equal, that means that the cost of the material that the reactor is made of is 1000 times cheaper. The replacement of existing coal and concrete plant heat sources will be a very attractive business opportunity for large scale LENR reactors. This whole cloth heat plant replacement would be made much easier if the power density and heat source size was about the same size as a fission plant or a coal combustion chamber. The ability to replace a heat plant in and existing utility installation is the dream of nuclear reactor designers because its saves about 90% of the plants value. The generators and grid connection are the most expensive part of a power plant. So a plug and play replacement for existing fossil fuel power plants and nuclear plants that can recover most of the existing infrastructure of those existing plants is attractive. This is one direction that LENR reactor provider might go. It will allow for a clean thermal plug and play customer interface where LENR reactor sub-modules can be hot swapped using a vacuum like plug arrangement into a common vacuum bus line supporting a common heat exchanger base unit. I liked the design of the tub reactor shown as follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Moderated_Self-regulating_Nuclear_Power_Module Info on heat pipes can be found at the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe See how a coal plant retrofit with LENR can be done. http://www.coal2nuclear.com/Air%20Capture%20-%20SKYSCRUBBER%20LARGE%20POWER%20PLANT%20TWIN%20REACTOR%20BARGE%20-%202510.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Pumping hydrogen through hot granulated uranium metal? No wonder there is a reaction. And the negative feedback UH3 moderator theory sounds a bit vague. If this was developed in the 1950s as an enhanced trigger in the Upshot-Knothole tests - then LLNL may have stumbled upon LENR without realising it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Upshot-Knothole From: Axil Axil I liked the design of the tub reactor shown as follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Moderated_Self-regulating_Nuclear_Power_Module
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Someday a 50 to 100 kilowatt lithium based heat tube integrated heat pipe and LERN reaction chamber whose dimensions are an inch in diameter and a foot long made of zirconium. It will be connected to a vapor heat transfer bus to the heat exchanger and serviceable by hot swap out. This heat pipe will stabilize its temperature with a computer settable thermal control valve at the vapor side of the vapor bus connection. The tube should have a SCADA monitoring control connection to a main SCADA computer. A plug and play cubic foot of volume will support 100 such tubes producing (100) (100 kW) of power at 800C. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Rossi would need a container ship to do the same thing. This is not good for a utility. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Someday a 50 to 100 kilowatt lithium based heat tube integrated heat pipe and LERN reaction chamber whose dimensions are an inch in diameter and a foot long made of zirconium. It will be connected to a vapor heat transfer bus to the heat exchanger and serviceable by hot swap out. This heat pipe will stabilize its temperature with a computer settable thermal control valve at the vapor side of the vapor bus connection. The tube should have a SCADA monitoring control connection to a main SCADA computer. A plug and play cubic foot of volume will support 100 such tubes producing (100) (100 kW) of power at 800C. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Early Los Alamos heat pipes contained water or sodium. In the mid-1980s, Los Alamos developed a lithium heat pipe that transferred heat energy at a power density of 23 kilowatts per square centimeter—to understand the intensity of that amount of heat energy, consider that the heat emitted from the sun's surface is only 6 kilowatts per square centimeter. Lithium is placed inside a molybdenum pipe, which can operate at white-hot temperatures approaching 1,477 K (2,200°F). Once heated inside the pipe, the lithium vaporizes and carries heat down the pipe's length. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi would need a container ship to do the same thing. This is not good for a utility. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Someday a 50 to 100 kilowatt lithium based heat tube integrated heat pipe and LERN reaction chamber whose dimensions are an inch in diameter and a foot long made of zirconium. It will be connected to a vapor heat transfer bus to the heat exchanger and serviceable by hot swap out. This heat pipe will stabilize its temperature with a computer settable thermal control valve at the vapor side of the vapor bus connection. The tube should have a SCADA monitoring control connection to a main SCADA computer. A plug and play cubic foot of volume will support 100 such tubes producing (100) (100 kW) of power at 800C. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Why are light power dense LENR power plants necessary? A Boeing 747 engine produces 25 megawatts of power per combustion turbine. Twenty-five megawatts is the equivalent of about 33,500 horsepower. The Pratt Whitney jet engines used in Boeing 747s produce about 55,000 pounds of thrust on take-off, which is the equivalent of around 34,100 horsepower. At 10 megawatts per cubic foot, it would take 2.5 cubic feet of volume to produce the trust needed to power a jet engine. That is 10 cubic feet per 747. A ion engine for a Mars space craft would need about 200 Megawatts to get to Mars quickly. That is about 20 cubic feet of reactor volume. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Early Los Alamos heat pipes contained water or sodium. In the mid-1980s, Los Alamos developed a lithium heat pipe that transferred heat energy at a power density of 23 kilowatts per square centimeter—to understand the intensity of that amount of heat energy, consider that the heat emitted from the sun's surface is only 6 kilowatts per square centimeter. Lithium is placed inside a molybdenum pipe, which can operate at white-hot temperatures approaching 1,477 K (2,200°F). Once heated inside the pipe, the lithium vaporizes and carries heat down the pipe's length. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi would need a container ship to do the same thing. This is not good for a utility. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Someday a 50 to 100 kilowatt lithium based heat tube integrated heat pipe and LERN reaction chamber whose dimensions are an inch in diameter and a foot long made of zirconium. It will be connected to a vapor heat transfer bus to the heat exchanger and serviceable by hot swap out. This heat pipe will stabilize its temperature with a computer settable thermal control valve at the vapor side of the vapor bus connection. The tube should have a SCADA monitoring control connection to a main SCADA computer. A plug and play cubic foot of volume will support 100 such tubes producing (100) (100 kW) of power at 800C. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat transfer contact is very good because it is made by quantum effects caused by the BEC. I believe that the powder is super-fluidic. That means that the hydrogen gas and the powder and maybe even the containment tube are the same temperature (exothermic). On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote: Major problem is that it is hot powder than needs to transfer its heat. It simply has a bad contact with the heat exchanger.
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
Yes, apparently safe (although using UZrH not UH3). What I was questioning is whether the hydrogen desorbtion at high temperature really does control the reaction by changing the neutron moderation rate, or whether something else is happening (which equally controls reaction rate). It is not that uncommon for devices to operate succesfully, even though they were originally designed using a completly bogus theory, since the hands-on fine tuning often compensates for the initial mistake. Hence a wrong theory can be perpetuated for a long time. Note that the Ruth bomb had a very low yeild, which was not consistent with Teller's working theory. Hence the theory should be open to question (as all theories should be, every now and then). - Leo From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com The triga reactor uses this hydrogen moderation method and it is very safe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIGA
RE: [Vo]:Heat pipes
you might want to look back at my Jun 4 vortex post under a couple hundred bucks... I am working on using heat pipes to extract heat. I have having to use a variable heat conductive path. You have to balance the heat extraction with the keeping the system at working temperature. I have been trying both a mechanical system (sliding tube contact area) and a ferro magnetic system. Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 12:18:21 -0400 From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Heat pipes I have spent a good deal of time thinking about fission reactor design and I have some opinions as these ideas apply to large scale LENR power stations. What makes for a competitive and cost effective reactor design is copious power density. When you try to sell a reactor design to an electric utility, they want “economies of scale”. That term implies that the most power should be produced from the least possible volume. One important means that a large scale LENR can be the most economical is to produce the most power from the least material and space. Rossi’s shipping container idea is not a good one because the power density derived from that design is pathetic. One way to get the power density up is to use heat pipes to move heat out of the reaction chamber and into the customer’s application. Have you ever considered using heat pipes in any future LENR reactor designs? Today, heat pipes are used in a good many non-water mediated fission reactor designs. Some of the Indian designs use heat pipes for passive cooling after shutdown. As an example of this point, an interesting product concept was the tub reactor. The heat pipe was the interface between the reactor and the customer. Unfortunately, this reactor design was discontinued because of the great expense of getting it certified by the NRC were only light water reactor designs are considered. But the concept was very attractive as a retrofit for fossil energy based power station replacements such as coal fired power generators and concrete plants. The heat pipe can support high temperature process heat. Such a heat transfer concept has an open ended heat range based on the material used as the transfer fluid. Vapor to/from liquid phase transition used in heat pipes are 1000 times more efficient than liquid coolants. That means that a reactor core element can be 1000 time smaller than it currently is. All things being equal, that means that the cost of the material that the reactor is made of is 1000 times cheaper. The replacement of existing coal and concrete plant heat sources will be a very attractive business opportunity for large scale LENR reactors. This whole cloth heat plant replacement would be made much easier if the power density and heat source size was about the same size as a fission plant or a coal combustion chamber. The ability to replace a heat plant in and existing utility installation is the dream of nuclear reactor designers because its saves about 90% of the plants value. The generators and grid connection are the most expensive part of a power plant. So a plug and play replacement for existing fossil fuel power plants and nuclear plants that can recover most of the existing infrastructure of those existing plants is attractive. This is one direction that LENR reactor provider might go. It will allow for a clean thermal plug and play customer interface where LENR reactor sub-modules can be hot swapped using a vacuum like plug arrangement into a common vacuum bus line supporting a common heat exchanger base unit. I liked the design of the tub reactor shown as follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Moderated_Self-regulating_Nuclear_Power_Module Info on heat pipes can be found at the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe See how a coal plant retrofit with LENR can be done. http://www.coal2nuclear.com/Air%20Capture%20-%20SKYSCRUBBER%20LARGE%20POWER%20PLANT%20TWIN%20REACTOR%20BARGE%20-%202510.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes
I assumed one could control the flow of vapor by using some sort of computer controlled valve with and adjustable opening capability. Am I wrong in that assumption? A microcontroller can supervise the temperature of N number of heat pipes if the polling cycle is fast enough. A very good heat removal system with an almost instantaneous response time could allow the LENR reaction to run very close to right on the critical run away temperature. This critical temperature could be exceeded if the response time of the automated valve system is faster than the runaway heat ramp velocity rate. If a high temperature LENR reactor could run at 800C, the efficiency of the thermo cycle would get to 60%. The key to this idea is to make the removal of heat very efficient and fast, if the heat pipe could transfer heat fast enough to keep the temperature of the heat exchanger and the heat pipe isothermal, and an isothermal heat pipe might be able to do that. The speed of heat removal is at the speed of sound in lithium vapor. That sounds fast. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:00 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote: you might want to look back at my Jun 4 vortex post under a couple hundred bucks... I am working on using heat pipes to extract heat. I have having to use a variable heat conductive path. You have to balance the heat extraction with the keeping the system at working temperature. I have been trying both a mechanical system (sliding tube contact area) and a ferro magnetic system. -- Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 12:18:21 -0400 From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Heat pipes I have spent a good deal of time thinking about fission reactor design and I have some opinions as these ideas apply to large scale LENR power stations. What makes for a competitive and cost effective reactor design is copious power density. When you try to sell a reactor design to an electric utility, they want “economies of scale”. That term implies that the most power should be produced from the least possible volume. One important means that a large scale LENR can be the most economical is to produce the most power from the least material and space. Rossi’s shipping container idea is not a good one because the power density derived from that design is pathetic. One way to get the power density up is to use heat pipes to move heat out of the reaction chamber and into the customer’s application. Have you ever considered using heat pipes in any future LENR reactor designs? Today, heat pipes are used in a good many non-water mediated fission reactor designs. Some of the Indian designs use heat pipes for passive cooling after shutdown. As an example of this point, an interesting product concept was the tub reactor. The heat pipe was the interface between the reactor and the customer. Unfortunately, this reactor design was discontinued because of the great expense of getting it certified by the NRC were only light water reactor designs are considered. But the concept was very attractive as a retrofit for fossil energy based power station replacements such as coal fired power generators and concrete plants. The heat pipe can support high temperature process heat. Such a heat transfer concept has an open ended heat range based on the material used as the transfer fluid. Vapor to/from liquid phase transition used in heat pipes are 1000 times more efficient than liquid coolants. That means that a reactor core element can be 1000 time smaller than it currently is. All things being equal, that means that the cost of the material that the reactor is made of is 1000 times cheaper. The replacement of existing coal and concrete plant heat sources will be a very attractive business opportunity for large scale LENR reactors. This whole cloth heat plant replacement would be made much easier if the power density and heat source size was about the same size as a fission plant or a coal combustion chamber. The ability to replace a heat plant in and existing utility installation is the dream of nuclear reactor designers because its saves about 90% of the plants value. The generators and grid connection are the most expensive part of a power plant. So a plug and play replacement for existing fossil fuel power plants and nuclear plants that can recover most of the existing infrastructure of those existing plants is attractive. This is one direction that LENR reactor provider might go. It will allow for a clean thermal plug and play customer interface where LENR reactor sub-modules can be hot swapped using a vacuum like plug arrangement into a common vacuum bus line supporting a common heat exchanger base unit. I liked the design of the tub reactor shown as follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Moderated_Self-regulating_Nuclear_Power_Module Info on heat pipes can be found at the following:
RE: [Vo]:Heat pipes
my problem has been if I get the heat out too fast, then the reaction stops. These things like to stay warm. I do not have the technical ablity to make many massive control systems. I am doing well just to have one path and one system D2 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 18:22:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Heat pipes From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com I assumed one could control the flow of vapor by using some sort of computer controlled valve with and adjustable opening capability. Am I wrong in that assumption? A microcontroller can supervise the temperature of N number of heat pipes if the polling cycle is fast enough. A very good heat removal system with an almost instantaneous response time could allow the LENR reaction to run very close to right on the critical run away temperature. This critical temperature could be exceeded if the response time of the automated valve system is faster than the runaway heat ramp velocity rate. If a high temperature LENR reactor could run at 800C, the efficiency of the thermo cycle would get to 60%. The key to this idea is to make the removal of heat very efficient and fast, if the heat pipe could transfer heat fast enough to keep the temperature of the heat exchanger and the heat pipe isothermal, and an isothermal heat pipe might be able to do that. The speed of heat removal is at the speed of sound in lithium vapor. That sounds fast. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:00 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote: you might want to look back at my Jun 4 vortex post under a couple hundred bucks... I am working on using heat pipes to extract heat. I have having to use a variable heat conductive path. You have to balance the heat extraction with the keeping the system at working temperature. I have been trying both a mechanical system (sliding tube contact area) and a ferro magnetic system. Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 12:18:21 -0400 From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Heat pipes I have spent a good deal of time thinking about fission reactor design and I have some opinions as these ideas apply to large scale LENR power stations. What makes for a competitive and cost effective reactor design is copious power density. When you try to sell a reactor design to an electric utility, they want “economies of scale”. That term implies that the most power should be produced from the least possible volume. One important means that a large scale LENR can be the most economical is to produce the most power from the least material and space. Rossi’s shipping container idea is not a good one because the power density derived from that design is pathetic. One way to get the power density up is to use heat pipes to move heat out of the reaction chamber and into the customer’s application. Have you ever considered using heat pipes in any future LENR reactor designs? Today, heat pipes are used in a good many non-water mediated fission reactor designs. Some of the Indian designs use heat pipes for passive cooling after shutdown. As an example of this point, an interesting product concept was the tub reactor. The heat pipe was the interface between the reactor and the customer. Unfortunately, this reactor design was discontinued because of the great expense of getting it certified by the NRC were only light water reactor designs are considered. But the concept was very attractive as a retrofit for fossil energy based power station replacements such as coal fired power generators and concrete plants. The heat pipe can support high temperature process heat. Such a heat transfer concept has an open ended heat range based on the material used as the transfer fluid. Vapor to/from liquid phase transition used in heat pipes are 1000 times more efficient than liquid coolants. That means that a reactor core element can be 1000 time smaller than it currently is. All things being equal, that means that the cost of the material that the reactor is made of is 1000 times cheaper. The replacement of existing coal and concrete plant heat sources will be a very attractive business opportunity for large scale LENR reactors. This whole cloth heat plant replacement would be made much easier if the power density and heat source size was about the same size as a fission plant or a coal combustion chamber. The ability to replace a heat plant in and existing utility installation is the dream of nuclear reactor designers because its saves about 90% of the plants value. The generators and grid connection are the most expensive part of a power plant. So a plug and play replacement for existing fossil fuel power plants and nuclear plants that can recover most of the existing infrastructure of those existing plants is attractive. This is one direction that LENR reactor provider might go. It will allow for a clean thermal plug and play customer interface where LENR reactor sub
