Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[David Roberson]

You are correct in your observation Mary.  The device has grown in size 
remarkably and some of its characteristics are likely improved.  The cute 
little unit that first showed up could not retain much hot water to deliver on 
demand.  Rossi has made a point of the fact that the device takes a significant 
amount of time to turn on or off.  The newer models seem to take advantage of 
that time factor to store energy instead of having to vent it at turn off.  
Please understand that I am just guessing about the reasons hidden within 
Rossi's mind.

Maybe you should suggest to him reasons to make the device tiny as I know there 
would be many applications that this would enhance.  I have hope that the heavy 
lead shield is not always going to be the anchor that holds us down, but until 
we get the scientific testing that you so much desire, we must realize that he 
holds most of the cards.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Mary Yugo 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Thu, Nov 24, 2011 2:13 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?


On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:44 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
> Isn't it amazing how much the device has changed over the months?
Yes it is.  Over the past 9 months, the E-cat's power per unit volume
nd per unit mass has shrunk markedly from the small 50 cc reaction
hambers described for the early copper clad models to the 80 kg
Ottoman" E-cat which made essentially no more power than the small
ne.   That trend has been uniform except maybe for the October 28
est, in which, of course, data collection and details were not
itnessed by anyone credible.

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Joshua Cude]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Mary Yugo  wrote:

>That trend has been uniform except maybe for the October 28
> test, in which, of course, data collection and details were not
> witnessed by anyone credible.
>
>
Maybe the trend is not uniform, but even in the megacat, the *claimed*
power is only about 4.5 kW for a 100 kg device, and a COP using Lewan's
input data of about 8. The January demo claimed 12 kW for a 30 kg device
with a COP of about 30.

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Joshua Cude]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

> Note temps were recorded every 2 seconds and the quality of the produced
> steam was measured to contain 1.2 to 1.4% water. Present were: Rossi, Levi,
> Kullander, Essen, Leonardi, Focardi and Bianchini so I accept the data as
> real.


They used a relative humidity probe to "measure" steam quality. It is
neither designed for that purpose, nor capable of performing that function.
Those numbers are meaningless, and we have no better idea of the steam
quality in that experiment than in any of the others. If steam quality were
that easy to measure, why do turbine engineers perform calorimetry on steam
to determine its quality? The fact that those present were satisfied with a
measurement of relative humidity disqualifies them as expert observers.

The claim of dry steam a few minutes after boiling is reached has exactly
the same problem as in the megacat demo. It means the power transfer must
magically increase 7-fold in about 3 minutes, even though it took 17
minutes to increase the power one-fold, or about 35 times the rate of
transfer increase. In this case, the power after ignition is claimed to be
about 10 times higher than the electrical heat, but they also claim
ignition happened at 60C, which means we can see how fast the power is
increasing *with* the ecat running, and it's not nearly fast enough to
reach full vaporization 3 minutes after boiling.

It's true that the reported electrical power is not enough to even reach
boiling in this demo, so that suggests some heat production in the ecat. On
the other hand, the input power is somehow not monitored in this
experiment. It is only measured at the beginning. It would have been rather
easy to increase it by a factor of 2, which would have been enough to take
the system to the boiling point.

In this demo as in others, they monitor the temperature every few seconds,
even though the temperature is not expected to change during a 7-fold
increase in power. But they don't measure the steam flow rate (speed),
which *would* be expected to change during this claimed power increase, and
would provide some support for the claim of dry steam. The incompetence is
just amazing. Of course, sparging the steam would have been even better.


> For me this is better proof that Rossi does have a working and stable LENR
> reactor than the 6 Oct or 28 Oct tests.


It is probably the best one that was done, but can be explained by a small
misrepresentation in the power input. But even if you accept the data, and
if the ecat is producing its own heat, it only needs about 300 W to explain
all the observations, not 4.4 kW as they claimed. That means that the
amount of energy (about 6 MJ) is perfectly consistent with some kind of
chemical energy produced by the ecat.

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Mary Yugo]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:44 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Isn't it amazing how much the device has changed over the months?

Yes it is.  Over the past 9 months, the E-cat's power per unit volume
and per unit mass has shrunk markedly from the small 50 cc reaction
chambers described for the early copper clad models to the 80 kg
"Ottoman" E-cat which made essentially no more power than the small
one.   That trend has been uniform except maybe for the October 28
test, in which, of course, data collection and details were not
witnessed by anyone credible.

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Mary Yugo]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat 
wrote:

> If this paper has been
> discussed before, I could not find it.

I don't know exactly where it is but it was discussed on this email list
and extensively elsewhere as well.

> seconds and the quality of the produced steam was measured to contain 1.2
to
> 1.4% water.

Do you recall how the quality of steam was measured in this experiment?
This issue seems to be the center of a lot of controversy about the
results.  Controversy which, in my opinion is needless because it is not
necessary to measure enthalpy in that manner.  Better methods were
subsequently recommended to Rossi by many people including Jed Rothwell and
Rossi has always refused to use either of the two (sparging and all liquid
cooling).

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[David Roberson]

I agree with you that the April 6 test is very convincing.  So much time has 
passed and ECAT form factor changed that I almost forgot about it.  I am glad 
you have returned it to my attention.

Rossi has something to sell now which no one else has provided thus far.  We 
are fortunate that he was able to push the technology forward against the tide. 
 We are in his debt.

Isn't it amazing how much the device has changed over the months?  You seem 
like a good engineer and I am sure you as I can see the progress that has been 
achieved.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2011 10:04 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?


I have a market opportunity for 100s MWs of Green diathermic oil plant. 
>From what I can currently see Rossi is the only supplier that may be 
ble to deliver. I found this paper to be extremely useful: 
ttp://www.defkalion-energy.com/Report_Kullander_April_6_2011.pdf as it 
eave no doubt that what Rossi has is very real. If this paper has been 
iscussed before, I could not find it. Note temps were recorded every 2 
econds and the quality of the produced steam was measured to contain 
.2 to 1.4% water. Present were: Rossi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, 
eonardi, Focardi and Bianchini so I accept the data as real. For me 
his is better proof that Rossi does have a working and stable LENR 
eactor than the 6 Oct or 28 Oct tests. The measured COP was 15.6 (300 
atts of electricity in and 4.69 kWs of heated steam out) during the 
.75 hour (10:45 to 16:30) test of the Door Knob style reactor.
AG

n 11/24/2011 12:58 PM, David Roberson wrote:
 AG, are you giving serious consideration to Defkalion as a supplier 
 for your needs?  It would be advantageous for the world to have many 
 sources of these types of products as that will allow some competition 
 to drive down prices.
 Dave

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

I have a market opportunity for 100s MWs of Green diathermic oil plant. 
From what I can currently see Rossi is the only supplier that may be 
able to deliver. I found this paper to be extremely useful: 
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/Report_Kullander_April_6_2011.pdf as it 
leave no doubt that what Rossi has is very real. If this paper has been 
discussed before, I could not find it. Note temps were recorded every 2 
seconds and the quality of the produced steam was measured to contain 
1.2 to 1.4% water. Present were: Rossi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, 
Leonardi, Focardi and Bianchini so I accept the data as real. For me 
this is better proof that Rossi does have a working and stable LENR 
reactor than the 6 Oct or 28 Oct tests. The measured COP was 15.6 (300 
watts of electricity in and 4.69 kWs of heated steam out) during the 
5.75 hour (10:45 to 16:30) test of the Door Knob style reactor.


AG


On 11/24/2011 12:58 PM, David Roberson wrote:
AG, are you giving serious consideration to Defkalion as a supplier 
for your needs?  It would be advantageous for the world to have many 
sources of these types of products as that will allow some competition 
to drive down prices.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

Had  not seen that before. Thanks

AG


On 11/24/2011 12:58 PM, Frank Acland wrote:
This comes from the DGT profile on their site : 
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/White_Paper_DGT.pdf



On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat 
mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com>> wrote:



http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-3-merged-t63441-450.html#p1091080

"Hyperion products have different configurations, most notably:

Series A: Single tube single module CHP: with this configuration,
5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate micro-CHP/micro
turbine configurations

Series B: Multi tube single module CHP: with this configuration,
multiples of 5 or 10Kw heat power (max 30kW) can be integrated in
the same box, when product has to operate (heat) bigger
CHP/micro-CHP or steam turbine configurations

Series C: Single tube single module heat only: with this
configuration, 5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate small
steam or hot water demands such as agricultural applications
(green houses)

Series D: Multi tube single module heat only: with this
configuration, multiples of 5Kw heat power can be integrated in
the same box , when product has to produce substantial amounts of
heat for energy demanding applications

Series E: Single or multi tube modules in parallel: to meet the
energy demands of big industrial installations in the megawatt
range. Such products consists of arrays of A, B, or D series
rack-mounted

Series F: Single or multi tube modules in series: to provide power
in different configurations

All kilowatt range products have the following dimensions: 55x45x35cm"

Have asked the poster for his source.

AG




--
Frank Acland
Publisher, E-Cat World 
Author, The Secret Power Beneath 

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[David Roberson]

AG, are you giving serious consideration to Defkalion as a supplier for your 
needs?  It would be advantageous for the world to have many sources of these 
types of products as that will allow some competition to drive down prices.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2011 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?


Found the 23 June 2011 link: 
ttp://www.blog.telecomfuturecentre.it/2011/06/23/defkalion-green-technologies-announces-plans-for-the-rossi-energy-catalyzer/
AG

n 11/24/2011 12:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
 
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-3-merged-t63441-450.html#p1091080
 
>

 "Hyperion products have different configurations, most notably:

 Series A: Single tube single module CHP: with this configuration, 
 5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate micro-CHP/micro turbine 
 configurations

 Series B: Multi tube single module CHP: with this configuration, 
 multiples of 5 or 10Kw heat power (max 30kW) can be integrated in the 
 same box, when product has to operate (heat) bigger CHP/micro-CHP or 
 steam turbine configurations

 Series C: Single tube single module heat only: with this 
 configuration, 5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate small 
 steam or hot water demands such as agricultural applications (green 
 houses)

 Series D: Multi tube single module heat only: with this configuration, 
 multiples of 5Kw heat power can be integrated in the same box , when 
 product has to produce substantial amounts of heat for energy 
 demanding applications

 Series E: Single or multi tube modules in parallel: to meet the energy 
 demands of big industrial installations in the megawatt range. Such 
 products consists of arrays of A, B, or D series rack-mounted

 Series F: Single or multi tube modules in series: to provide power in 
 different configurations

 All kilowatt range products have the following dimensions: 55x45x35cm"

 Have asked the poster for his source.

 AG

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Frank Acland]

This comes from the DGT profile on their site :
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/White_Paper_DGT.pdf


On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

> http://peakoil.com/forums/the-**cold-fusion-thread-pt-3-**
> merged-t63441-450.html#**p1091080
>
> "Hyperion products have different configurations, most notably:
>
> Series A: Single tube single module CHP: with this configuration, 5-10Kw
> heat power will be released to operate micro-CHP/micro turbine
> configurations
>
> Series B: Multi tube single module CHP: with this configuration, multiples
> of 5 or 10Kw heat power (max 30kW) can be integrated in the same box, when
> product has to operate (heat) bigger CHP/micro-CHP or steam turbine
> configurations
>
> Series C: Single tube single module heat only: with this configuration,
> 5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate small steam or hot water
> demands such as agricultural applications (green houses)
>
> Series D: Multi tube single module heat only: with this configuration,
> multiples of 5Kw heat power can be integrated in the same box , when
> product has to produce substantial amounts of heat for energy demanding
> applications
>
> Series E: Single or multi tube modules in parallel: to meet the energy
> demands of big industrial installations in the megawatt range. Such
> products consists of arrays of A, B, or D series rack-mounted
>
> Series F: Single or multi tube modules in series: to provide power in
> different configurations
>
> All kilowatt range products have the following dimensions: 55x45x35cm"
>
> Have asked the poster for his source.
>
> AG
>
>


-- 
Frank Acland
Publisher, E-Cat World 
Author, The Secret Power Beneath 

Re: [Vo]:Hyperion product range?

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

Found the 23 June 2011 link: 
http://www.blog.telecomfuturecentre.it/2011/06/23/defkalion-green-technologies-announces-plans-for-the-rossi-energy-catalyzer/


AG


On 11/24/2011 12:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-3-merged-t63441-450.html#p1091080 



"Hyperion products have different configurations, most notably:

Series A: Single tube single module CHP: with this configuration, 
5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate micro-CHP/micro turbine 
configurations


Series B: Multi tube single module CHP: with this configuration, 
multiples of 5 or 10Kw heat power (max 30kW) can be integrated in the 
same box, when product has to operate (heat) bigger CHP/micro-CHP or 
steam turbine configurations


Series C: Single tube single module heat only: with this 
configuration, 5-10Kw heat power will be released to operate small 
steam or hot water demands such as agricultural applications (green 
houses)


Series D: Multi tube single module heat only: with this configuration, 
multiples of 5Kw heat power can be integrated in the same box , when 
product has to produce substantial amounts of heat for energy 
demanding applications


Series E: Single or multi tube modules in parallel: to meet the energy 
demands of big industrial installations in the megawatt range. Such 
products consists of arrays of A, B, or D series rack-mounted


Series F: Single or multi tube modules in series: to provide power in 
different configurations


All kilowatt range products have the following dimensions: 55x45x35cm"

Have asked the poster for his source.

AG