RE: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
From: H Veeder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off)… When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. This is a good find, Harry … wish it had come up earlier. It could salvage some of the Levi report, as obviously it would partly explain the color temperature variance. We need that thermocouple data. I was unaware of the phenomenon. Below is more from the entry with comments interspersed - which makes negative luminescence sound like it is expected from the “exciton” segment of our prior explanation which would be a part of” triple coherency” in laser-like device (along with photos and phonons): “Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density.” [as to the caveat that alumina is not a semiconductor, but does have low charge carrier density - it can be noted that alumina is dielectric at moderate temperature but becomes more and more conductive at elevated temperature] “Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence.” “Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium.” “Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity.” [negative luminescence would probably not effect 7 micron IR] Given that Levi did know of this phenomenon – and that it could be helpful in the context of the experiment – all he needs to do is release the thermocouple data which may not support the highest gain, but probably is more accurate than the IR calculations (thermography). Better to salvage something than have everything perceived as wrong.
RE: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
Correction to the low IR spectra: “British workers later demonstrated LWIR band (8-12 µm) negative luminescence using mercury cadmium telluride diodes.” … not sure what the difference would be at this temperature, but it could be substantial. From: H Veeder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off)… When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. This is a good find, Harry … wish it had come up earlier. It could salvage some of the Levi report, as obviously it would partly explain the color temperature variance. We need that thermocouple data. I was unaware of the phenomenon. Below is more from the entry with comments interspersed - which makes negative luminescence sound like it is expected from the “exciton” segment of our prior explanation which would be a part of” triple coherency” in laser-like device (along with photos and phonons): “Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density.” [as to the caveat that alumina is not a semiconductor, but does have low charge carrier density - it can be noted that alumina is dielectric at moderate temperature but becomes more and more conductive at elevated temperature] “Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence.” “Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium.” “Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity.” [negative luminescence would probably not effect 7 micron IR] Given that Levi did know of this phenomenon – and that it could be helpful in the context of the experiment – all he needs to do is release the thermocouple data which may not support the highest gain, but probably is more accurate than the IR calculations (thermography). Better to salvage something than have everything perceived as wrong.
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
RE: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCatJones and Harry-- These ideas seem quite possible to me, particularly the phenomena of galvanomagnetic (that's a nice term) luminescence.” The thermocouple data is key to knowing the temperature and better calibration of the internal temperature based on the camera's measured light spectrum. The time variation of this spectrum would be nice to know as well as the thermocouple data. It might be linked to the input electrical signals, if they serve as an emissivity switch for the alumina and be pretty good proof of the negative luminescence. The use of the magnetic and electric fields to change the absorption and emission of photons by the alumina may be the way the reaction is controlled. The assumption that there is any equilibrium in the reactor and, hence, black body radiation from it surface, is not correct IMO. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:17 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat From: H Veeder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off)… When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. This is a good find, Harry … wish it had come up earlier. It could salvage some of the Levi report, as obviously it would partly explain the color temperature variance. We need that thermocouple data. I was unaware of the phenomenon. Below is more from the entry with comments interspersed - which makes negative luminescence sound like it is expected from the “exciton” segment of our prior explanation which would be a part of” triple coherency” in laser-like device (along with photos and phonons): “Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density.” [as to the caveat that alumina is not a semiconductor, but does have low charge carrier density - it can be noted that alumina is dielectric at moderate temperature but becomes more and more conductive at elevated temperature] “Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence.” “Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium.” “Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity.” [negative luminescence would probably not effect 7 micron IR] Given that Levi did know of this phenomenon – and that it could be helpful in the context of the experiment – all he needs to do is release the thermocouple data which may not support the highest gain, but probably is more accurate than the IR calculations (thermography). Better to salvage something than have everything perceived as wrong.
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
This effect sounds like a form of heat pump. The energy is moved from one location to another. Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:33 am Subject: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat From the wikipedia page on Negative Luminescence ((My thoughts are in double brackets)) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off). When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. ((Rossi's Hotcat is also an electronic device, but instead of appearing cool to an infrared camera as described above, maybe it has the capacity to appear cool to the eye but hot to an infrared camera.)) Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density. Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence. Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium. Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
I doubt that this effect has anything to do with the latest ECAT measurements. Unfortunately, it appears that measuring the spectral energy contained within the IR range may not be directly associated with the amount of heat energy being generated since a significant portion of the energy resides within the other bands. A calorimeter will likely be the only way to prove to all the skeptics that the gain is greater than unity. I remain convinced that the ECAT is generating plenty of extra energy due to the step input power measurement that was conducted. A passive system would not be able to demonstrate such a large change in output with the much smaller input step. In the previous test this same effect showed up as the waveform variation that was discussed at length by the testers. The skeptics attempted to explain why the waveform was different than that expected from a resistive load as being due to phase shifting of the response signal. That hand waving has now been proven wrong since the latest effect has nothing to do with time domain signal variations. We see that the power output changes at a DC rate which is immune to phase shifting. Virtually every concern of the skeptics of the earlier test have been shown in error now but they keep insisting that they are correct. Remember the DC question regarding the input power? That was pure BS, but it gave them a tiny island upon which to build. The only issue left is the question about the accuracy of the temperature and the spectral shape of the radiation. Once this question has been laid to rest, what will be their next issue? The previous ECAT was constructed with a black paint coating the exterior of the device. That one should have been a much better black body radiator and it also revealed extra heat production. In my opinion there is more than adequate evidence that the COP is significantly greater than unity. As Rossi has stated on many occasions, only the market can convince some folks of reality. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 10:18 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat From: H Veeder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off)… When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. This is a good find, Harry … wish it had come up earlier. It could salvage some of the Levi report, as obviously it would partly explain the color temperature variance. We need that thermocouple data. I was unaware of the phenomenon. Below is more from the entry with comments interspersed - which makes negative luminescence sound like it is expected from the “exciton” segment of our prior explanation which would be a part of” triple coherency” in laser-like device (along with photos and phonons): “Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density.” [as to the caveat that alumina is not a semiconductor, but does have low charge carrier density - it can be noted that alumina is dielectric at moderate temperature but becomes more and more conductive at elevated temperature] “Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence.” “Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium.” “Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity.” [negative luminescence would probably not effect 7 micron IR] Given that Levi did know of this phenomenon – and that it could be helpful in the context of the experiment – all he needs to do is release the thermocouple data which may not support the highest gain, but probably is more accurate than the IR calculations (thermography). Better to salvage something than have everything perceived as wrong.
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
I have heard that the external wires glow because heat from inside the reactor travels down the wire by simple conduction But perhaps energy is actively pumped into the external wires through a process involving negative luminescence. Harry On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 11:42 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: This effect sounds like a form of heat pump. The energy is moved from one location to another. Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 2:33 am Subject: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat From the wikipedia page on Negative Luminescence *((My thoughts are in double brackets))* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_luminescence Negative luminescence is a physical phenomenon by which an electronic device emits less thermal radiation when an electric current is passed through it than it does in thermal equilibrium (current off). When viewed by a thermal camera, an operating negative luminescent device looks colder than its environment. * ((Rossi's Hotcat is also an electronic device, but instead of appearing cool to an infrared camera as described above, maybe it has the capacity to appear cool to the eye but hot to an infrared camera.))* Negative luminescence is most readily observed in semiconductors. Incoming infrared radiation is absorbed in the material by the creation of an electron–hole pair. An electric field is used to remove the electrons and holes from the region before they have a chance to recombine and re-emit thermal radiation. This effect occurs most efficiently in regions of low charge carrier density. Negative luminescence has also been observed in semiconductors in orthogonal electric and magnetic fields. In this case, the junction of a diode is not necessary and the effect can be observed in bulk material. A term that has been applied to this type of negative luminescence is galvanomagnetic luminescence. Negative luminescence might appear to be a violation of Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation. This is not true, as the law only applies in thermal equilibrium. Another term that has been used to describe negative luminescent devices is Emissivity switch, as an electric current changes the effective emissivity. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: The assumption that there is any equilibrium in the reactor and, hence, black body radiation from it surface, is not correct IMO. Would that be equivalent to saying the surface cannot have a steady temperature? Harry
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:05 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: As Rossi has stated on many occasions, only the market can convince some folks of reality. Rossi could have chosen the academic route but he hasn't. He has *decided* the market will decide and for better or worse that is how it will be settled. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Negative Luminescence and the HotCat
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Given that Levi did know of this phenomenon – and that it could be helpful in the context of the experiment – all he needs to do is release the thermocouple data which may not support the highest gain, but probably is more accurate than the IR calculations (thermography). Better to salvage something than have everything perceived as wrong. Since Rossi wants the marketplace to rule on the reality of the Ecat, he and IH must have sought this test for patent reasons. At the moment it doesn't look like the report would support his IP claims. Harry
