Re: [vox-tech] resolved (kind of): stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:13:16 -0500, Peter Jay Salzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It appears that I have stumbled onto a bug that exists (and apparently, has > always existed). NFS mounting a vfat or msdos partition has issues. A (somewhat hackish) workaround would be to use samba for filesharing of vfat partitions. -- Mitch ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
Not sure its on linux or not, but my favorite util for that is dircmp Mike On Thursday 17 March 2005 06:05, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: > On Thu 17 Mar 05, 8:26 AM, p said: > > On Wed 16 Mar 05, 10:42 PM, Rod Roark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > On Wednesday 16 March 2005 10:26 pm, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: > > > > What's the quick and dirty way of using md5sum or sha1sum to check > > > > the equivalence of the files residing in two directories? I suppose > > > > I can whip up a Perl script to traverse the directories, but I'm > > > > wondering if there's a short one liner (or perhaps an already written > > > > utility) to do this. > > > > > > How about: > > > > > > $ diff -r dir1 dir2 > > > > > > -- Rod > > > > I totally spaced that diff recurses. How embarrasing! :) > > > > Thanks, > > Pete > > Another question (with my tail between my legs). > > When I do this, I get many "Stale NFS file handle" messaages: > >$ diff -r project2/ /dvd/ >diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap05: > Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter > 8/data/movies/chap06: Stale NFS file handle ... >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 1/Xtras: Stale NFS file > handle diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 2: Stale NFS file > handle diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/readme.txt: Stale NFS file > handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/PC Exercise: Stale NFS file > handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/readme.txt: Stale NFS file > handle > > > The DVD in question is on satan. The directory > >/E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/ > > is on lucifer, but NFS mounted onto satan. All in all, the dvd has about > 4.1 GB on it, so the amount of data is non-trivial. > > Does anyone know why this is happening? > > Thanks, > Pete -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Wenk ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:21:49 -0800, Richard Harke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have to do xhost + in order to run firefox. I found this after googling > because it wouldn't run at all. I am behind a NAT router but I would rather > not do this. On the other hand, I have been using firefox more and more. Hmm... is Firefox running setuid? chroot'd? (If so, why?) If not.. then then I can't think of a reason why firefox would be any different than any other X app. The xhost + may just be masking a more fundamental problem, and it's likely making you less secure in the process. -- Mitch ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thursday 17 March 2005 15:20, Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 01:21:52PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > - Mark Kim's "xhost+" advice. DON'T DO THIS. EVER. Google for the > > reasons, they're well known and tedious to recount. Fortunately, > > most sane X servers don't allow this in their default sessions. > > It's fine in a LAN behind a firewall, I'm sure. > > But on the open and evil Internet, yeah... scary :^) > As bad as (if not worse than!) using telnet to login, or non-anonymous FTP. I have to do xhost + in order to run firefox. I found this after googling because it wouldn't run at all. I am behind a NAT router but I would rather not do this. On the other hand, I have been using firefox more and more. Richard Harke ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] resolved (kind of): stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 6:49 PM, Mitch Patenaude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Hmm... just a guess. Is lockd running on lucifer? > > File locking was added in NFS4, but for backward compatibility it was > run in a separate daemon. I'm guessing that most programs don't > bother with file locking, but it wouldn't surprise me if diff did. If > lockd weren't running, then it would be unable to lock the file, which > it might interpret as a stale file handle. > > This is all supposition, and I may have some of the details wrong, > since I haven't mucked with NFS in years. > > -- Mitch It appears that I have stumbled onto a bug that exists (and apparently, has always existed). NFS mounting a vfat or msdos partition has issues. Here's a conversation I had with an NFS developer: == (snip) > My computer lucifer is a dual boot machine. While booted in Linux, it > uses NFS to export /C, /D and /E (Windows partitions) to other computers > on my LAN. What kind of Windows partitions? The problem you are seeing looks like the generic problem of exporting vfat/msdos partitions over NFS. Basic filehandle generation is broken on vfat/msdos, because the default export operations that knfsd tries to use rely on the inode numbers being permanent (something which is not the case here). It may perhaps be possible to write a set of custom export_opertions for them, but nobody has yet stepped up to the plate to do so. Cheers, Trond == (snip) > In layman's terms, the problem is that the inodes used to describe where > files reside on a vfat-mounted partition can change. In other words, > inode X belonging to some file residing on vfat can change into inode > X+Y. Even if there's no actual disk writing involved (like my diff > example). The inode _number_, which is basically a way of referencing the file that is meant to be independent of the filename. This is useful if your filesystem has the concept of "hard links" (as most UNIX filesystems do), and/or if you want to be able to reference the same file after renames. The command 'ls -i' will list the inode number associated to a file. > Couldn't that eventually lead to filesystem corruption? The vfat/msdos filesystem itself will not rely on inode numbers in order to locate the file, so you will be safe in the case of local use. The problem is that the NFS server, by default *does* rely on the inode number for tracking the file. Yes, that may lead to corruption, but more frequently, it will just lead to the NFS server losing track of your file (and returning random ESTALE errors). As I said, there is a programming interface to allow knfsd to use alternate means for tracking the file, if one exists, but nobody has worked on setting up such a system for vfat/msdos. Cheers, Trond ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
Hmm... just a guess. Is lockd running on lucifer? File locking was added in NFS4, but for backward compatibility it was run in a separate daemon. I'm guessing that most programs don't bother with file locking, but it wouldn't surprise me if diff did. If lockd weren't running, then it would be unable to lock the file, which it might interpret as a stale file handle. This is all supposition, and I may have some of the details wrong, since I haven't mucked with NFS in years. -- Mitch ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Quoting Jonathan Stickel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > See, that's the beginning of the problem. What installer to use? Freedom of choice sucks, doesn't it? ;-> > Why isn't there a standard one that "just works"? Notice the pointer icons for "installation options known to be excellent of their kind"? How many standard ones that just work do you need? ;-> > I've tried the woody net-install, the sarge net-install, and libranet. There is not one single sarge netinst images but numerous ones, created and maintained by various individuals. Most but not all are based on the new, beta-level d-i (debian-installer) code. There are also beta netinst images of the Official Debian sarge d-i installer, automatically built periodically on the build-hosts. There were also numerous unofficial woody netinst images, created and maintained by private parties. The current (non-beta) Official Debian installer _isn't_ available, to my knowledge, as a netinst image. (I just double-checked.) > The libranet install broke after I changed the repositories to sarge > and tried to upgrade. Yes, probably shouldn't have done that, but the > "correct way" was certainly not clear. Changing to use different repositories always creates the risk of some problems, as you're apparently aware. However, in my experience, recent Libranet has always been sarge/sid-compatible. (Prior releases such as 1.7 were pretty much completely compatible with the testing branch of that day, if I recall correctly.) So, I'm left curious about what "broke" means, here. (People really need to be able to deal with minor package-handling faults before doing something like changing repositories. E.g., if you can't figure out how to deal with package foo not installing because it's trying to overwrite file bar owned by package baz, you should stick with more basic setups, until you find your way around.) > I find Fedora 3 to be very stable and usable "out of the box". Good! I like it too. My point is that Debian-testing has proven significantly more stable than each and every one of the Fedora releases over time. In my experience. > Yes, I admit I have "epsilon" experience, where epsilon is some small > but finite number (bad engineering joke). I'm mostly going by all the > "debian is broke" traffic that I see go by on this list. Ah, thank you. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] linux on Mac iBook
Dylan Beaudette wrote: On Thursday 17 March 2005 03:23 pm, Jonathan Stickel wrote: Someone wants to install Linux on a Mac iBook (i.e. PowerPC arch.) at the installfest Saturday. This is new to me. Any recommendations, especially in regards to distribution? For new users, I often go with Fedora. I see that the test version of Fedora 4 is out with a version for PPC. I'll probably go with that unless I'm advised not to. Anyone able to come help with a PPC install on Saturday? Thanks, Jonathan I might be able to come. Regardless, i would certainly recommend Debian/Testing for this machine. I have been running it on my powerbook G3 now for a couple of years. Also, the Debian-PPC mailing list is VERY active. If you can come help, I'll burn a PPC sarge net-install disk. As you may have guessed from another thread today, I'm not all that big on Debian, but I am happy to let others try. Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] linux on Mac iBook
Quoting Jonathan Stickel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Someone wants to install Linux on a Mac iBook (i.e. PowerPC arch.) at > the installfest Saturday. This is new to me. Any recommendations, > especially in regards to distribution? For new users, I often go with > Fedora. I see that the test version of Fedora 4 is out with a version > for PPC. I'll probably go with that unless I'm advised not to. That would probably work fine. My G3 iBook2 (two generations back on CPUs) first got Gentoo on it, and following that Ubuntu Linux 4.10 "warty warthog". There are now also beta-level live CDs of that distribution (not yet tried). I've in fact downloaded one of those for _my_ installfest (SVLUG/CABAL's), which will likewise be Saturday, at my house in the Bay Area. This distro list is reasonably current: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=maclinux#powermaclinux ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Jonathan Stickel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Debian's installation process is difficult and requires intimate knowledge of how linux works. Which of the couple of dozen installers for Debian are you referring to? Please see: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian See, that's the beginning of the problem. What installer to use? Why isn't there a standard one that "just works"? I've tried the woody net-install, the sarge net-install, and libranet. The libranet install broke after I changed the repositories to sarge and tried to upgrade. Yes, probably shouldn't have done that, but the "correct way" was certainly not clear. In order to have an up-to-date system, you risk instability (with the testing or unstable tree), or must resort to 3rd party "backports". Debian-testing in my experience, has proven much more stable over the years than, say, Mandrakelinux, Fedora, or (in its day) Red Hat 7.x-9. Perhaps you can describe the ways in which your experience has differed. I find Fedora 3 to be very stable and usable "out of the box". Just my view. Maybe I've never given it a fair chance since every install I've tried has failed. Wait, now I'm confused. Was the experience that your claim about "risk[ing] instability" was based on gained using machines that _other_ people installed, then? Or were you speaking from zero experience? Yes, I admit I have "epsilon" experience, where epsilon is some small but finite number (bad engineering joke). I'm mostly going by all the "debian is broke" traffic that I see go by on this list. Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] linux on Mac iBook
On Thursday 17 March 2005 03:23 pm, Jonathan Stickel wrote: > Someone wants to install Linux on a Mac iBook (i.e. PowerPC arch.) at > the installfest Saturday. This is new to me. Any recommendations, > especially in regards to distribution? For new users, I often go with > Fedora. I see that the test version of Fedora 4 is out with a version > for PPC. I'll probably go with that unless I'm advised not to. > > Anyone able to come help with a PPC install on Saturday? > > Thanks, > Jonathan I might be able to come. Regardless, i would certainly recommend Debian/Testing for this machine. I have been running it on my powerbook G3 now for a couple of years. Also, the Debian-PPC mailing list is VERY active. -- Dylan Beaudette Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group University of California at Davis 530.754.7341 ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] linux on Mac iBook
Someone wants to install Linux on a Mac iBook (i.e. PowerPC arch.) at the installfest Saturday. This is new to me. Any recommendations, especially in regards to distribution? For new users, I often go with Fedora. I see that the test version of Fedora 4 is out with a version for PPC. I'll probably go with that unless I'm advised not to. Anyone able to come help with a PPC install on Saturday? Thanks, Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Quoting Jonathan Stickel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Debian's installation process is difficult and requires intimate > knowledge of how linux works. Which of the couple of dozen installers for Debian are you referring to? Please see: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian > In order to have an up-to-date system, you risk instability (with the > testing or unstable tree), or must resort to 3rd party "backports". Debian-testing in my experience, has proven much more stable over the years than, say, Mandrakelinux, Fedora, or (in its day) Red Hat 7.x-9. Perhaps you can describe the ways in which your experience has differed. > Just my view. Maybe I've never given it a fair chance since every > install I've tried has failed. Wait, now I'm confused. Was the experience that your claim about "risk[ing] instability" was based on gained using machines that _other_ people installed, then? Or were you speaking from zero experience? ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 01:21:52PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > - Mark Kim's "xhost+" advice. DON'T DO THIS. EVER. Google for the > reasons, they're well known and tedious to recount. Fortunately, > most sane X servers don't allow this in their default sessions. It's fine in a LAN behind a firewall, I'm sure. But on the open and evil Internet, yeah... scary :^) As bad as (if not worse than!) using telnet to login, or non-anonymous FTP. With SSH and friends properly set up, it's actually easier to go the SSH -X route, besides. :) -- -bill! [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I'm anticipating an all-out tactical http://newbreedsoftware.com/ dog-fight, followed by a light dinner." ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 02:11:06PM -0800, John Wojnaroski wrote: > As far as I can tell, this may be one of the few cockpit simulations > using Linux as the platform rather than all that MS stuff... > Additionall info on the flightgear website under the projects page > http://www.flightgear.org/Projects Heh, they actually came and spoke (and demo'd, with tons of monitors) at LUGOD a while back: Presentation notes: http://www.lugod.org/presentations/flightgear/ Lots of photos: http://www.lugod.org/photos/2002.05.07/ -- -bill! [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I'm anticipating an all-out tactical http://newbreedsoftware.com/ dog-fight, followed by a light dinner." ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
Closely related topic: Opening an X11 client as a user different from the one one is logged in as. (The typical situation is that you wish to open some -- preferably small and conservatively coded -- X11 app with root-user authority, while logged in as a non-root user.) I've collected a list of the various ways: "Root w/X11" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Security/ ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Peter Jay Salzman wrote: Datapoint: I have tried, and failed, to install Gentoo twice. I never failed to install Debian. Yep, I know, everyone is shaped by their experiences. I've tried, and failed, with Debian about 3 times. The last time was about the time I first tried Gentoo... which worked for me! Had Gentoo not worked, for whatever reason, my views may have been polarized to be totally different. Perhaps part of the story is what I expected from Debian vs. Gentoo. I expected Debian to "just work" due to its maturity, user base, and target audience. Gentoo, on the other hand, advertises itself as a guru distribution. Going in with that understanding, and carefully reading the documents, I came out on the other side a happy camper. Nonetheless, it is beyond my comprehension why Debian stable is 3 years old. That is an eternity in the world of open source software. Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 2:56 PM, Bob Scofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Thursday 17 March 2005 02:03 pm, Jonathan Stickel wrote: > > > Debian's installation process is difficult and requires > > intimate knowledge of how linux works. In order to have an up-to-date > > system, you risk instability (with the testing or unstable tree), or > > must resort to 3rd party "backports". > > *I* think the install is difficult. We have to make a distinction between the installation and the configuration phase that takes place after installation. Installation is easy. Especially with the latest official installers. The configuration phase can be pretty challenging to the uninitiated. But it's a *great* way to learn about your computer and its operating system. Datapoint: I have tried, and failed, to install Gentoo twice. I never failed to install Debian. Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Thursday 17 March 2005 02:03 pm, Jonathan Stickel wrote: > In danger of starting a flame war, I am going to give my view of Debian. > Debian is in fact based on wonderful ideas, but it has horrible > implementation. Seeing as how I both love and hate Debian, a flame war would be difficult for me. I'd be on both sides, and I'd end up attacking myself. > Debian's installation process is difficult and requires > intimate knowledge of how linux works. In order to have an up-to-date > system, you risk instability (with the testing or unstable tree), or > must resort to 3rd party "backports". *I* think the install is difficult. But you don't need an intimate knowledge of how Linux works. I don't know hardly anything about how Linux works, and I got it installed with some help from this list. With the install and some updates I'm being asked configuration questions about things I don't understand at all. But often the configuration programs give hints and advice, and somehow I've ended up with a system that works (except for the disappearing cdrom mount point problem in the 2.6.8-2-386 kernel). I typed up detailed notes on my install, and I'm fighting the sick urge to burn this Debian system over just to install it again to see if I can use my notes for an easier install. This is one reason I hate Debian. It's making me discover these bizarre urges I didn't know I had before. Right now I feel totally committed to SuSE and totally committed to Debian. I want both. With SuSE I'm guaranteed to have an almost flawless system that I can always count on to work and be properly configured. With Debian I can be challenged to learn more, and also be part of the Debian non-commercial ideal. I plan to continue with both distros. > > Just my view. Maybe I've never given it a fair chance since every > install I've tried has failed. You know a lot more than I do, and if I can do a Sarge net install then you can. In fact Janathan it was your post about "localhost:631" that got my printing working. Bob ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
Mark K. Kim wrote: BTW, John, you can add a hostname after the '+' sign to allow connections only from that computer. Example: $xhost +remote_host_ip_or_name which would be the next next best thing to ssh -X and MIT magic cookie thingy. This is still fairly insecure on the internet, however, as it is vulnerable to IP and DNS spoofs. -Micah ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 2:26 PM, Mark K. Kim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > My autoshop teacher once told me that a good mechanic always uses the > correct wrench for the correct nut, so a good mechanic should never use > the monkey wrench (a.k.a. adjustable wrench.) But a good mechanic, he > added, would never be without a monkey wrench in his toolbox. `xhost +` > is one of those monkey wrenches for UNIX people, and it would always be > a tool I'd teach people along with `ssh -X`. > > -Mark You just floored me. This is a passage that could easily have come from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". It's so applicable, it could be sage advice for just about anything. I think this meme will be with me for the rest of my life. Thanks for teaching me! Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:41PM -0800, Mark K. Kim [censored] wrote: [snip] > >$xhost + > > BAD MARK. NO DONUT. OR COOKIE. Lols. In theory, you're right that it's a bad advice. In practice, it's not a problem, especially for: 1. Brief connections. 2. Local/trusted connections. 3. Connection check before securing it. One should always be aware of security issues, of course, which I briefly touched upon and suggested using ssh instead for that reason. The MIT magic cookie thing would be the next best thing but it's so convoluted that nobody uses it. BTW, John, you can add a hostname after the '+' sign to allow connections only from that computer. Example: $xhost +remote_host_ip_or_name which would be the next next best thing to ssh -X and MIT magic cookie thingy. My autoshop teacher once told me that a good mechanic always uses the correct wrench for the correct nut, so a good mechanic should never use the monkey wrench (a.k.a. adjustable wrench.) But a good mechanic, he added, would never be without a monkey wrench in his toolbox. `xhost +` is one of those monkey wrenches for UNIX people, and it would always be a tool I'd teach people along with `ssh -X`. -Mark -- Mark K. Kim AIM: markus kimius Homepage: http://www.cbreak.org/ Xanga: http://www.xanga.com/vindaci Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/user.php?uid=13046 PGP key fingerprint: 7324 BACA 53AD E504 A76E 5167 6822 94F0 F298 5DCE PGP key available on the homepage ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:28:27 -0800 "Karsten M. Self" wrote: > on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:41PM -0800, Mark K. Kim > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > >$xhost + > > BAD MARK. NO DONUT. OR COOKIE. > > Please do NOT suggest people try this, particularly... > > > *but* this will work only if your local computer is connected > > directly to the Internet. > > ...on live Internet connections. > > > Fortunately, most modern X servers toss a few additional roadbumps in > front of idiots trying to attempt this. I'm not going to detail these > here, and would appreciate if nobody else does. The act of Googling > for the workarounds is itself an exercise which might educate same as > to why this is a blatently *STUPID* idea and grossly incompetent > advice. What sort of roadblocks? (Besides the NAT router sitting between me and the open internet). --Ken Bloom -- I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment. See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures. pgpId23QnAdgb.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
Karsten M. Self wrote: on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:41PM -0800, Mark K. Kim ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, John Wojnaroski wrote: [snip] I'm trying to login into a remote host and have the host export the screen display back to my machine [snip] "export DISPLAY=my_ip_address:0.0" returns something like "Xlib: client is not authorized to connect to server" which seems to indicate that something is missing or lacking on the local machine. Any suggestions where to look? [snip] That'll work except your local computer isn't letting the connection through for security reasons. On your *local* computer, type this: $xhost + Actually, xhost + is quick and easy and since all the machines are trusted and on a LAN behind a firewall there should be no security problem. Running four machines on a distributed flight simulation and getting tired of jumping up to get to the other machines. Idea is to run everything from code editing, compiling, and testing from a single station. I do appreciate all the responses and the solid advice on how to use ssh when working with a remote machine over the Internet. We demo'd the simulation a month ago at the SCALE3x show here in LA http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale3x_day1.php As far as I can tell, this may be one of the few cockpit simulations using Linux as the platform rather than all that MS stuff... Additionall info on the flightgear website under the projects page http://www.flightgear.org/Projects Regards John W. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 01:28:27PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:41PM -0800, Mark K. Kim ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > wrote: > > > > But this works only if the remote computer has a ssh server with X > > forwarding enabled, which it is by default on most systems I've > > seen. > > Not, FYI, Debian. Not sure of Ubuntu, haven't checked yet. On Warty Warthog: $ grep X11Forwarding /etc/ssh/sshd_config X11Forwarding yes -David ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Karsten M. Self wrote: on Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 12:33:06PM -0500, Peter Jay Salzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon 14 Mar 05, 9:31 AM, Bob Scofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of computing. But after Ken's answer to my question about apt upgrading to new versions of open source applications (eventually to Open Office 2.0, for example) I marvel at what Debian is up to. It is clearly economically suicidal for commercial distros to have apt. While Debian is considered geekware, it has tremendous potential to the non-technically inclined. Bob Interesting thought. While my understanding is that apt has been ported to other distros, like Connectiva (which is now owned by someone else) my sense is that it hasn't really caught on. Maybe it doesn't have the blessing of the distros to which it was ported. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are forced to reimplement it. Poorly. http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/WhyDebianRocks Policy - The Special Sauce This is the crux, the narthex, the throbbing heart of Debian and what makes it so utterly superior to all other operating systems. Policy is defined. It is clear. It is enforced through the tools you use every day. When you issue apt-get install foo, you're not just installing software. You're enforcing policy - and that policy's objective is to give you the best possible system. In danger of starting a flame war, I am going to give my view of Debian. Debian is in fact based on wonderful ideas, but it has horrible implementation. Its rigid policy and arrogant developers end up making it difficult to use for the general user. It's stable release is nearly 3 years old. Debian's installation process is difficult and requires intimate knowledge of how linux works. In order to have an up-to-date system, you risk instability (with the testing or unstable tree), or must resort to 3rd party "backports". Just my view. Maybe I've never given it a fair chance since every install I've tried has failed. Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:42:41PM -0800, Mark K. Kim ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, John Wojnaroski wrote: > [snip] > > I'm trying to login into a remote host and have the host export the screen > > display back to my machine > [snip] > > "export DISPLAY=my_ip_address:0.0" returns something like "Xlib: client is > > not authorized to connect to server" which seems to indicate that something > > is missing or lacking on the local machine. Any suggestions where to look? > [snip] > > That'll work except your local computer isn't letting the connection > through for security reasons. On your *local* computer, type this: > >$xhost + BAD MARK. NO DONUT. OR COOKIE. Please do NOT suggest people try this, particularly... > *but* this will work only if your local computer is connected directly to > the Internet. ...on live Internet connections. Fortunately, most modern X servers toss a few additional roadbumps in front of idiots trying to attempt this. I'm not going to detail these here, and would appreciate if nobody else does. The act of Googling for the workarounds is itself an exercise which might educate same as to why this is a blatently *STUPID* idea and grossly incompetent advice. > The better way is to use ssh with the -X option to connect to the remote > computer in the first place. This should be your only answer. > Not only does ssh setup the X forwarding for > you automatically (not need to do "export blah blah" or "xhost blah blah" > or be concerned about not being connected directly to the Internet), but > your connection will be secure. But this works only if the remote > computer has a ssh server with X forwarding enabled, which it is by > default on most systems I've seen. Not, FYI, Debian. Not sure of Ubuntu, haven't checked yet. I've got access to 9.x builds of MDK and SuSE to look at as well. > The drawback is the connection will be a little slower than it would > be on an insecure system, but it shouldn't be noticeable under most > circumstances. More specifically: video and multimedia performance will likely be unsatisfactory (flash, DVD viewing, etc.). There's too much processing overhead. The '-C' option compresses the data (this actually _increases_ latency, but decreases total bandwith requirements and may speed systems on slow links). Using a fast cipher (Blowfish) can alleviate problems, particularly on slower hardware. Hardware lacking an FPU (floating point (processing) unit) will perform _far_ worse than those with. Use of lbxproxy may also provide performance benefits in some configurations (slow links). Peace. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? MX Radio - With Bob Edwards, who needs NPR? http://www.xmradio.com/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Exporting displays
First: don't start a new thready by replying to a message from an existing one. Your email headers will cause your message to appear in the other (unrelated) thread. Compose a new message and address it to list instead. on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:19:02PM -0800, John Wojnaroski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to login into a remote host and have the host export the > screen display back to my machine Let's clarify understanding. You are at host 'foo' You are remotely logged in to host 'bar' You want a program on 'bar' to appear on 'foo' > With "export DISPLAY=:0.0" will result in the executing program using > the remote host display. Right, this will run on the existing (if any) X display on 'bar', if you have permissions to do so, it exists, etc. > Trying "export DISPLAY=my_ip_address:0.0" returns something like > "Xlib: client is not authorized to connect to server" which seems to > indicate that something is missing or lacking on the local machine. > Any suggestions where to look? First: you're not doing this right. You want to ssh to the remote host with X11 forwarding set. This both sets all your DISPLAY environment settings properly *AND* tunnels the session through an encrypted SSH session back to your local (foo) display. On the client side (foo): ssh -X bar You can shortcut this to: ssh -Xf bar ...which will set up the SSH session, the X11 tunnel, run your command, then fork SSH to background until your X application closes. On the server side, it's necessary to enable X11 forwarding. Generally in /etc/ssh/sshd_conf . Many distros disable this by default (it's an access/security issue, though in the grand scheme of things, a lesser risk than many sins). You'll also find: - Mark Kim's "xhost+" advice. DON'T DO THIS. EVER. Google for the reasons, they're well known and tedious to recount. Fortunately, most sane X servers don't allow this in their default sessions. - Most X servers don't allow remote TCP connections. These may also be blocked at other stages, including IP filters and (possibly) tcpwrappers (not sure on last). - You don't have a cookie. It's magic. It's from a secret recipie sold by MIT for $50,000. Wait, wrong chain mail Peace. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? I was taking my bicycle on BART one afternoon. I have a FreeBSD sticker on it and a woman looked at it with her head cocked and then asked me, "Who's BSD?" - Skip Evans signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
on Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 12:33:06PM -0500, Peter Jay Salzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Mon 14 Mar 05, 9:31 AM, Bob Scofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > > Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of > > computing. But after Ken's answer to my question about apt upgrading to > > new > > versions of open source applications (eventually to Open Office 2.0, for > > example) I marvel at what Debian is up to. It is clearly economically > > suicidal for commercial distros to have apt. While Debian is considered > > geekware, it has tremendous potential to the non-technically inclined. > > > > Bob > > Interesting thought. While my understanding is that apt has been ported to > other distros, like Connectiva (which is now owned by someone else) my sense > is that it hasn't really caught on. Maybe it doesn't have the blessing of > the distros to which it was ported. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are forced to reimplement it. Poorly. http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/WhyDebianRocks Policy - The Special Sauce This is the crux, the narthex, the throbbing heart of Debian and what makes it so utterly superior to all other operating systems. Policy is defined. It is clear. It is enforced through the tools you use every day. When you issue apt-get install foo, you're not just installing software. You're enforcing policy - and that policy's objective is to give you the best possible system. What Policy defines are the bounds of Debian, not your own actions on the system. Policy states what parts of the system the package management system can change, and what it can't, how to handle configuration files, etc. By limiting the scope of the distribution in this way, it's possible for the system administrator to make modifications outside the area without fear that Debian packages will affect these changes. In essence, Policy introduces a new class of bugs, policy bugs. Policy bugs are release-critical -- a package which violates policy will not be included in the official stable Debian release. Let me reiterate, because that is the whole secret: A package which violates policy will not be included in the official stable Debian release. Peace. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? I found my own migration path from Fedora Core 1. Funny enough, it DOES start with "d" and ends with "ebian," - Seen on Slashdot signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] seq command on Mac OS X
Dylan Beaudette wrote: ok... this might be a dumb question... but as my home machine is now an OS X machine, a few little things are driving me nuts... the lack of the "seq" command is one of those things. I have tried searching for the source code for the version that is normally found on most normal *NIX distributions, but have not been able to find anything of the sort. Would it be easier to simply re-write it in bash, or some other scripting language? if so, anyone have some ideas on said script? thanks in advance for considering this non-linux question. seq is apparently part of GNU coreutils (used to be part of shellutils): http://www.gnu.org/software/shellutils/shellutils.html http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/ HTH, Micah ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] seq command on Mac OS X
ok... this might be a dumb question... but as my home machine is now an OS X machine, a few little things are driving me nuts... the lack of the "seq" command is one of those things. I have tried searching for the source code for the version that is normally found on most normal *NIX distributions, but have not been able to find anything of the sort. Would it be easier to simply re-write it in bash, or some other scripting language? if so, anyone have some ideas on said script? thanks in advance for considering this non-linux question. -- Dylan Beaudette Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group University of California at Davis 530.754.7341 ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 8:54 AM, Josh Parsons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Any file that diff reported "Stale NFS file handle", I can cat, edit,
> > play,...
> > I don't even know how to diagnose the cause.
>
> I've no idea either what's wrong, but if I were you, I'd start by seeing
> what syscall diff is using (and cat etc. aren't) that provokes the
> error. Try running your diff invocation under strace.
Great idea. I should've thought of that! It revealed something I've never
seen before. There are initially no files named ".l*" in the directory:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cd /E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ls -la .l*
ls: .l*: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] vi log
At this point, vim complains that it found a swap file .log.swp and asks me
if I want to "Open Read-Only", "Abort", etc. When I "Quit", the log file is
there:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ls .l*
.log.swo .log.swp
It looks like vim creates the swap files and THEN checks to see if a swap
file exists. Holy cow!
I had to write the log file elsewhere from /E. Writing the log file in
$HOME seemed to work. Here's a line from stracing diff -r:
stat64("/E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/Getting Started with
Corel Painter 8/autorun.inf", 0xb108) = -1 ESTALE (Stale NFS file
handle)
So then I tried to ls the file. For ls, stat() seemed to work:
stat64("/E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/Getting Started with
Corel Painter 8/autorun.inf", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0775, st_size=46, ...}) = 0
And when I just diff *that* single file, it seems to work:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] diff /E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/Getting\
Started\
with\ Corel\ Painter\ 8/autorun.inf /dvd/Getting\ Started\ with\ Corel\ \
Painter\ 8/autorun.inf
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
So there appears to be two manifestations of the problem:
1. Vim creates the swap file before checking the swap file's existence on
these NFS mounted partitions.
2. As far as diff -r goes, the stale NFS message appeas only when I start
diffing a lot of large files. It appears to work fine for single files.
The culprit appears to be stat64().
I'm feeling like I shouldn't have gotten out of bed today. :-(
Pete
--
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Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
> Any file that diff reported "Stale NFS file handle", I can cat, edit, > play,... > I don't even know how to diagnose the cause. I've no idea either what's wrong, but if I were you, I'd start by seeing what syscall diff is using (and cat etc. aren't) that provokes the error. Try running your diff invocation under strace. -- Josh Parsons Philosophy Department 1238 Social Sciences and Humanities Bldg. University of California Davis, CA 95616-8673 USA Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 8:03 AM, Jeff Newmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: > > [...] > > > Another question (with my tail between my legs). > > > > When I do this, I get many "Stale NFS file handle" messaages: > > > >$ diff -r project2/ /dvd/ > >diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap05: > > Stale NFS file handle > >diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap06: > > Stale NFS file handle > >... > >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 1/Xtras: Stale NFS file > > handle > >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 2: Stale NFS file handle > >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/readme.txt: Stale NFS file > > handle > >diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/PC Exercise: Stale NFS file handle > >diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle > > > > > > The DVD in question is on satan. The directory > > > >/E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/ > > > > is on lucifer, but NFS mounted onto satan. All in all, the dvd has about > > 4.1 GB on it, so the amount of data is non-trivial. > > > > Does anyone know why this is happening? > > Did you google this? That's a silly question. > You don't mention unmounting the NFS share on satan > and remounting it... Google hits indicate that anytime the lucifer NFS > service goes down (reboot?) the mounted share on satan will go stale. Already tried that. Didn't work. In fact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] diff -r project2/ /dvd/ diff: project2/Home and Small Office Networking/data/movies/chap05: Stale NFS file handle (snip) diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 2/Xtras: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/PC Exercise: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle [EMAIL PROTECTED] head -1 project2/Learning\ Access\ 2003/readme.txt Lynda.com.Learning.Microsoft.Access.2003-CFE Any file that diff reported "Stale NFS file handle", I can cat, edit, play, etc. All the files are accessible from satan when I do something to them. However, when I diff -r them, I get these Stale NFS file handle errors. Lucifer is a very fast machine. Satan is a relatively slow machine. The data is going over a LAN anyhow. Could it be some kind of synchronization between when data is sent by the foreign machine and when it's processed by diff? I don't even know how to diagnose the cause. Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: [...] > Another question (with my tail between my legs). > > When I do this, I get many "Stale NFS file handle" messaages: > >$ diff -r project2/ /dvd/ >diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap05: > Stale NFS file handle >diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap06: > Stale NFS file handle >... >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 1/Xtras: Stale NFS file handle >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 2: Stale NFS file handle >diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle >diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/PC Exercise: Stale NFS file handle >diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle > > > The DVD in question is on satan. The directory > >/E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/ > > is on lucifer, but NFS mounted onto satan. All in all, the dvd has about > 4.1 GB on it, so the amount of data is non-trivial. > > Does anyone know why this is happening? Did you google this? You don't mention unmounting the NFS share on satan and remounting it... Google hits indicate that anytime the lucifer NFS service goes down (reboot?) the mounted share on satan will go stale. --- Jeff NewmillerThe . . Go Live... DCN:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go... Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing Research Engineer (Solar/BatteriesO.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k --- ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] stale NFS file (was: binary equivalence of two directories)
On Thu 17 Mar 05, 8:26 AM, p said: > On Wed 16 Mar 05, 10:42 PM, Rod Roark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > On Wednesday 16 March 2005 10:26 pm, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: > > > What's the quick and dirty way of using md5sum or sha1sum to check the > > > equivalence of the files residing in two directories? I suppose I can > > > whip > > > up a Perl script to traverse the directories, but I'm wondering if > > > there's a > > > short one liner (or perhaps an already written utility) to do this. > > > > How about: > > > > $ diff -r dir1 dir2 > > > > -- Rod > > I totally spaced that diff recurses. How embarrasing! :) > > Thanks, > Pete Another question (with my tail between my legs). When I do this, I get many "Stale NFS file handle" messaages: $ diff -r project2/ /dvd/ diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap05: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Getting Started with Corel Painter 8/data/movies/chap06: Stale NFS file handle ... diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 1/Xtras: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/CD 2: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Intermediate Flash MX 2004/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/PC Exercise: Stale NFS file handle diff: project2/Learning Access 2003/readme.txt: Stale NFS file handle The DVD in question is on satan. The directory /E/documentation/Videos/Lynda.com/project2/ is on lucifer, but NFS mounted onto satan. All in all, the dvd has about 4.1 GB on it, so the amount of data is non-trivial. Does anyone know why this is happening? Thanks, Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] binary equivalence of two directories
On Wed 16 Mar 05, 10:42 PM, Rod Roark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Wednesday 16 March 2005 10:26 pm, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: > > What's the quick and dirty way of using md5sum or sha1sum to check the > > equivalence of the files residing in two directories? I suppose I can whip > > up a Perl script to traverse the directories, but I'm wondering if there's a > > short one liner (or perhaps an already written utility) to do this. > > How about: > > $ diff -r dir1 dir2 > > -- Rod I totally spaced that diff recurses. How embarrasing! :) Thanks, Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
