Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 11:49:52PM -0400, Peter Salzman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Schmalenberger > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:15:37PM -0400, Peter Salzman wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > >> > I wrote: > >> > > >> > And that's just not happening. Everyone wants to make a groupware suite > >> > that does absolutely everything, wants to take over the world, and has > >> > incredibly picky and incredibly extensive requirements. I cannot just > >> > drop Bedework, or Bongo Project, or Cosmo, or Dingo Calendar Server, or > >> > ScalableOGo, or EGroupware into my old PIII server and have any of > >> > those play well with my existing server configuration. Almost all > >> > insist on a specific back-end database, and many want LDAP-based > >> > directory services. > >> > >> Update. > >> > >> This is about right. Bedework is unsuitable for my needs. It's too > >> big of a framework. Very intensive. The developers say it requires > >> its own dedicated server, which is why it's not offered by webhosting > >> companies. There's no such thing as a server that runs Bedework for > >> multiple clients, and from what I've read, I don't exactly want to run > >> it on my desktop machine. Sigh. It does look like a conquer the > >> world type application though. Very impressive, but you hit the nail > >> squarely on the head with the above paragraph. > >> > >> I looked into mod_caldav. The documentation is spotty, but from what > >> I can tell, it requires a patched Apache server?!? I've seen messages > >> of people who were compiling Apache to run mod_caldav, and that looks > >> like a whole can of worms too. > >> > >> I started to look into the Ubuntu calendarserver package. Still > >> trying to figure out how to set it up and whatnot; documentation > >> sucks, but I think it might be the most fruitful avenue to caldav out > >> of the three options I've looked at so far. > >> > > Has anybody tried davical? How does it compare? I just tried > > "apt-cache search caldav" and radicale also comes up, besides > > calendarserver. > > Nick > > Thanks for the lead. I'll look into this week and post my experience. > I just found this article too http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/402382:the-five-best-open-source-calendar-servers-for-linux Hopefully I will be able to try some out next week. :) Nick ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
Quoting Peter Salzman (p...@dirac.org): [Bedework:] > Sigh. It does look like a conquer the > world type application though. Very impressive, but you hit the nail > squarely on the head with the above paragraph. Even a broken clock's right twice a day. ;-> (Seriously, I'd rather have a good scheduling server than be right, though.) > I looked into mod_caldav. The documentation is spotty, but from what > I can tell, it requires a patched Apache server?!? Dunno. I'm willing to look into it. > I started to look into the Ubuntu calendarserver package. Please do let us know! Thanks. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Nick Schmalenberger wrote: > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:15:37PM -0400, Peter Salzman wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote: >> > I wrote: >> > >> > And that's just not happening. Everyone wants to make a groupware suite >> > that does absolutely everything, wants to take over the world, and has >> > incredibly picky and incredibly extensive requirements. I cannot just >> > drop Bedework, or Bongo Project, or Cosmo, or Dingo Calendar Server, or >> > ScalableOGo, or EGroupware into my old PIII server and have any of >> > those play well with my existing server configuration. Almost all >> > insist on a specific back-end database, and many want LDAP-based >> > directory services. >> >> Update. >> >> This is about right. Bedework is unsuitable for my needs. It's too >> big of a framework. Very intensive. The developers say it requires >> its own dedicated server, which is why it's not offered by webhosting >> companies. There's no such thing as a server that runs Bedework for >> multiple clients, and from what I've read, I don't exactly want to run >> it on my desktop machine. Sigh. It does look like a conquer the >> world type application though. Very impressive, but you hit the nail >> squarely on the head with the above paragraph. >> >> I looked into mod_caldav. The documentation is spotty, but from what >> I can tell, it requires a patched Apache server?!? I've seen messages >> of people who were compiling Apache to run mod_caldav, and that looks >> like a whole can of worms too. >> >> I started to look into the Ubuntu calendarserver package. Still >> trying to figure out how to set it up and whatnot; documentation >> sucks, but I think it might be the most fruitful avenue to caldav out >> of the three options I've looked at so far. >> > Has anybody tried davical? How does it compare? I just tried > "apt-cache search caldav" and radicale also comes up, besides > calendarserver. > Nick Thanks for the lead. I'll look into this week and post my experience. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:15:37PM -0400, Peter Salzman wrote: > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > > I wrote: > > > > And that's just not happening. Everyone wants to make a groupware suite > > that does absolutely everything, wants to take over the world, and has > > incredibly picky and incredibly extensive requirements. I cannot just > > drop Bedework, or Bongo Project, or Cosmo, or Dingo Calendar Server, or > > ScalableOGo, or EGroupware into my old PIII server and have any of > > those play well with my existing server configuration. Almost all > > insist on a specific back-end database, and many want LDAP-based > > directory services. > > Update. > > This is about right. Bedework is unsuitable for my needs. It's too > big of a framework. Very intensive. The developers say it requires > its own dedicated server, which is why it's not offered by webhosting > companies. There's no such thing as a server that runs Bedework for > multiple clients, and from what I've read, I don't exactly want to run > it on my desktop machine. Sigh. It does look like a conquer the > world type application though. Very impressive, but you hit the nail > squarely on the head with the above paragraph. > > I looked into mod_caldav. The documentation is spotty, but from what > I can tell, it requires a patched Apache server?!? I've seen messages > of people who were compiling Apache to run mod_caldav, and that looks > like a whole can of worms too. > > I started to look into the Ubuntu calendarserver package. Still > trying to figure out how to set it up and whatnot; documentation > sucks, but I think it might be the most fruitful avenue to caldav out > of the three options I've looked at so far. > Has anybody tried davical? How does it compare? I just tried "apt-cache search caldav" and radicale also comes up, besides calendarserver. Nick ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > I wrote: > > And that's just not happening. Everyone wants to make a groupware suite > that does absolutely everything, wants to take over the world, and has > incredibly picky and incredibly extensive requirements. I cannot just > drop Bedework, or Bongo Project, or Cosmo, or Dingo Calendar Server, or > ScalableOGo, or EGroupware into my old PIII server and have any of > those play well with my existing server configuration. Almost all > insist on a specific back-end database, and many want LDAP-based > directory services. Update. This is about right. Bedework is unsuitable for my needs. It's too big of a framework. Very intensive. The developers say it requires its own dedicated server, which is why it's not offered by webhosting companies. There's no such thing as a server that runs Bedework for multiple clients, and from what I've read, I don't exactly want to run it on my desktop machine. Sigh. It does look like a conquer the world type application though. Very impressive, but you hit the nail squarely on the head with the above paragraph. I looked into mod_caldav. The documentation is spotty, but from what I can tell, it requires a patched Apache server?!? I've seen messages of people who were compiling Apache to run mod_caldav, and that looks like a whole can of worms too. I started to look into the Ubuntu calendarserver package. Still trying to figure out how to set it up and whatnot; documentation sucks, but I think it might be the most fruitful avenue to caldav out of the three options I've looked at so far. Pete ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
It's super-funky homebrew php. Each event, listed in a php file, makes a func call that passes along the args about the event (title, date, url, descr, etc.) The func that actually gets called varies dep. on the viewer (e.g., homepage, calendar page, ical) Very funky & backwards, I know. I would not design it that way if I were to start again. :) The ical files are actually produced by the webservedr, via a links -dump invocation from within a Makefile. Yes, insane! I know! But it works & I have had almost no reason to change it ;) We have a web maint. how-to floating around somewhere (apologies; emailing via cellphone from a toy store :) ) which explains a litlte of this. A db is not a bad solution, but for less headache & portability, I'd just do tab-delim'd text files or something else insanely easy to read (human) and parse (script). :) -bill! On Sat, Jul 02, 2011 at 01:18:42AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alex Mandel (tech_...@wildintellect.com): > > > You are aware of http://www.lugod.org/calendar/lugod-only.ics > > Other options on: > > http://www.lugod.org/calendar/ > > I'm curious: How is that data generated and maintained? And how is the > RSS+XML generated? Is the code available? > > I have my own calendar (BALE) back-ended by a custom MySQL > setup that has events, event templates, and groups tables. > The data are served to the Web dynamically by a PHP snippet, though > that's a bit wasteful of machine resources and I've been seriously > considering generating static HTML via cronjob, instead. > > Only after that did people start saying 'Hey, can you also produce iCAL? > Can you also produce an RSS feed?' Which would have been easier if it > had been part of the design spec. > > I've hacked some Python that almost//sort-of produces correct iCAL > output, but it requires some more work. > > > ___ > vox-tech mailing list > vox-tech@lists.lugod.org > http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech -- -bill! Sent from my computer ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
Quoting Alex Mandel (tech_...@wildintellect.com): > You are aware of http://www.lugod.org/calendar/lugod-only.ics > Other options on: > http://www.lugod.org/calendar/ I'm curious: How is that data generated and maintained? And how is the RSS+XML generated? Is the code available? I have my own calendar (BALE) back-ended by a custom MySQL setup that has events, event templates, and groups tables. The data are served to the Web dynamically by a PHP snippet, though that's a bit wasteful of machine resources and I've been seriously considering generating static HTML via cronjob, instead. Only after that did people start saying 'Hey, can you also produce iCAL? Can you also produce an RSS feed?' Which would have been easier if it had been part of the design spec. I've hacked some Python that almost//sort-of produces correct iCAL output, but it requires some more work. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On 07/01/2011 11:52 AM, Peter Salzman wrote: > > I can't figure out why calDAV isn't more utilized. Interoperability > of things like business card and contact sharing has really taken off, > but for any business or organization that has scheduled events (i.e. > nearly all of them) it seems ... weird that calDAV isn't more front > and center in an age where nearly half the US population has some kind > of smart phone. Heck, even LUGOD could benefit by exporting a > calendar listing all meetings, installfests, one-off events, etc. > It's a way of pushing information to a target group rather than > requiring them to pull information (e.g. going to a website and > obtaining the info themselves). It's right there on their phones. > Even things like event cancellations become less onerous. You are aware of http://www.lugod.org/calendar/lugod-only.ics Other options on: http://www.lugod.org/calendar/ Enjoy, Alex ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
I wrote: > 1. Rapid standards churn. iCAL, xCal, iTIP, iMIP, vCalendar, vCard, > BEEP, CAP, WebDAV, CalDAV Seems like CalDAV has become the > surviving commodity standard, but those of us who watched the standards > squabble over the yeard got a bit lost in all of the alphabet soup, and > one suspects that a common reaction was 'Wake me up when all of this > gets sorted out.' > > 2. Lack of enthusiasm for Java. Bedework, like UW Calendar before it, > seems like a huge amount of Java infrastructure (servlets, directory > services, a lot more) and a back-end database for a fairly basic set of > scheduling functions that might possibly be achievable without so > much... stuff. > > Seems to be a common syndrome, e.g., Chandler Server (Cosmo). And the > non-Java alternatives are pretty heavy engineering, too. A bit further to that, speaking on a personal level: I keep hoping to find a moderately well debugged package, coded in C, or Python, or Perl, or Ruby, that I can just drop into my modest Apache2/Exim server without having to rearchitect everything, that would allow me to publish calendars and do free/busy event transactions that integrate with existing SMTP. I would expect to just enable WebDAV access support in my Apache2 setup, drop in the calendar thing, and have it Just Work without more fussing around. And that's just not happening. Everyone wants to make a groupware suite that does absolutely everything, wants to take over the world, and has incredibly picky and incredibly extensive requirements. I cannot just drop Bedework, or Bongo Project, or Cosmo, or Dingo Calendar Server, or ScalableOGo, or EGroupware into my old PIII server and have any of those play well with my existing server configuration. Almost all insist on a specific back-end database, and many want LDAP-based directory services. _Maybe_ Apple Calendar and Contacts Server will do a simple drop-in. Or Radicale. Or SabreDAV. I had hopes, some years ago, for Hula Project, which Novell killed off in the process of trying to turn it over to a third-party developer group. As the project was dying, Bongo Project was created as a fork from it. Here we are in 2011, and it's still a beta, but one of the cheering things about its Hula predecessor is that it did _not_ attempt to take over the world. Because they listened to Jamie Zawinski, who knows more than most people about how corporate overengineering can kill open source projects right in the design phase. Here's Jamie telling the story, and I do recommend spending the time reading it: http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html Anyway, _maybe_ Bongo Project is an answer. Except, er... Mono? Really? Oh yeah, that's that Novell factor at work. And there are only unofficial packages for most distributions, because nobody outside Novell ever was enthusiastic for it. E.g.: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/bongo-project/Debian_6.0/i386/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/bongo-project/Debian_6.0/all/ And look at all that stuff. Might as well be J2EE. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:50:50PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Peter Salzman (p...@dirac.org): > > > I can't figure out why calDAV isn't more utilized. > > I'll speculate: > > 1. Rapid standards churn. iCAL, xCal, iTIP, iMIP, vCalendar, vCard, > BEEP, CAP, WebDAV, CalDAV Seems like CalDAV has become the > surviving commodity standard, but those of us who watched the standards > squabble over the yeard got a bit lost in all of the alphabet soup, and > one suspects that a common reaction was 'Wake me up when all of this > gets sorted out.' > > 2. Lack of enthusiasm for Java. Bedework, like UW Calendar before it, > seems like a huge amount of Java infrastructure (servlets, directory > services, a lot more) and a back-end database for a fairly basic set of > scheduling functions that might possibly be achievable without so > much... stuff. I am certainly interested in CalDAV. One thing that I think is really cool in Java is Jackrabbit which does WebDAV. I have only played with it, but I have hopes of using it somewhere. http://jackrabbit.apache.org/ >From the FAQ What is a Jackrabbit file system? A Jackrabbbit file system (FS) is an internal component that implements standard file system operations on top of some underlying storage mechanism (a normal file system, a database, a webdav server, or a custom file format). A file system component is any Java class that implements the FileSystem interface and the associated behavioral contracts. File systems are used in Jackrabbit both as subcomponents of the persistence managers and for general storage needs (for example to store the full text indexes). -- Brian Lavender http://www.brie.com/brian/ "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies." Professor C. A. R. Hoare The 1980 Turing award lecture ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
Quoting Peter Salzman (p...@dirac.org): > I can't figure out why calDAV isn't more utilized. I'll speculate: 1. Rapid standards churn. iCAL, xCal, iTIP, iMIP, vCalendar, vCard, BEEP, CAP, WebDAV, CalDAV Seems like CalDAV has become the surviving commodity standard, but those of us who watched the standards squabble over the yeard got a bit lost in all of the alphabet soup, and one suspects that a common reaction was 'Wake me up when all of this gets sorted out.' 2. Lack of enthusiasm for Java. Bedework, like UW Calendar before it, seems like a huge amount of Java infrastructure (servlets, directory services, a lot more) and a back-end database for a fairly basic set of scheduling functions that might possibly be achievable without so much... stuff. Seems to be a common syndrome, e.g., Chandler Server (Cosmo). And the non-Java alternatives are pretty heavy engineering, too. My own page on scheduling, which of course is way out of date and needs updating (see item #1, rapid standards churn): http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Apps/scheduling.html ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Peter Salzman (p...@dirac.org): > >> Actually, this looks absolutely fantastic. I can't figure out why >> it's not practically an industry standard. The main design goal is >> interoperability with all calendaring clients, is BSD licensed, and it >> looks very polished. Thanks for mentioning this. > > Bedework is mentioned very briefly (but, sadly, not covered otherwise) > in this April 2008 rundown on Linux groupware: > http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/scalable-opengroupwareorg > > That article is mostly about one of the alternative implementations, > SOGo aka ScalableOGo. > > These pages look pretty useful: > http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/servers.html > http://wiki.herzbube.ch/index.php/DAViCal Thanks for the reading. I'll check it out on my commute today. I can't figure out why calDAV isn't more utilized. Interoperability of things like business card and contact sharing has really taken off, but for any business or organization that has scheduled events (i.e. nearly all of them) it seems ... weird that calDAV isn't more front and center in an age where nearly half the US population has some kind of smart phone. Heck, even LUGOD could benefit by exporting a calendar listing all meetings, installfests, one-off events, etc. It's a way of pushing information to a target group rather than requiring them to pull information (e.g. going to a website and obtaining the info themselves). It's right there on their phones. Even things like event cancellations become less onerous. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
Quoting Peter Salzman (p...@dirac.org): > Actually, this looks absolutely fantastic. I can't figure out why > it's not practically an industry standard. The main design goal is > interoperability with all calendaring clients, is BSD licensed, and it > looks very polished. Thanks for mentioning this. Bedework is mentioned very briefly (but, sadly, not covered otherwise) in this April 2008 rundown on Linux groupware: http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/scalable-opengroupwareorg That article is mostly about one of the alternative implementations, SOGo aka ScalableOGo. These pages look pretty useful: http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/servers.html http://wiki.herzbube.ch/index.php/DAViCal ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
Actually, this looks absolutely fantastic. I can't figure out why it's not practically an industry standard. The main design goal is interoperability with all calendaring clients, is BSD licensed, and it looks very polished. Thanks for mentioning this. On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Peter Salzman wrote: > That lead looks great to me. I'll check it out. Thanks!!! > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Scott Miller wrote: >> >> http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ >> >> Bedework is an open source calendering server that appears to follow >> all of the open spec'd caldav stuff and be very compatible. >> >> UC Berkeley is rolling it out for the campus. I'm not sure what's >> involved for getting it up and running though. :( >> >> >> == >> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:42:24 -0400 >> From: Peter Salzman >> Subject: [vox-tech] CalDAV >> To: vox-tech >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> I'd like to be able to serve calendar events to Google Calendar, iPhone, >> Android, and BlackBerry users. I did some research and found that CalDAV >> is >> the protocol that I need to look at. Ubuntu has something called >> calendarserver which I think serves up CalDAV data. >> >> However, I've also read hints that this would work for Google Calendar >> users, but not necessarily for mobile phone users because the mobile >> phones >> use proprietary extensions. >> >> This is totally uncharted territory for me. I was wondering if anyone has >> done this, and if so, what's the scoop on serving calendars to mobile >> phone >> users. >> >> Thanks! >> Pete > ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
That lead looks great to me. I'll check it out. Thanks!!! On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Scott Miller wrote: > http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ > > Bedework is an open source calendering server that appears to follow > all of the open spec'd caldav stuff and be very compatible. > > UC Berkeley is rolling it out for the campus. I'm not sure what's > involved for getting it up and running though. :( > > > == > Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:42:24 -0400 > From: Peter Salzman > Subject: [vox-tech] CalDAV > To: vox-tech > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'd like to be able to serve calendar events to Google Calendar, iPhone, > Android, and BlackBerry users. I did some research and found that CalDAV > is > the protocol that I need to look at. Ubuntu has something called > calendarserver which I think serves up CalDAV data. > > However, I've also read hints that this would work for Google Calendar > users, but not necessarily for mobile phone users because the mobile phones > use proprietary extensions. > > This is totally uncharted territory for me. I was wondering if anyone has > done this, and if so, what's the scoop on serving calendars to mobile phone > users. > > Thanks! > Pete > ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] CalDAV
http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ Bedework is an open source calendering server that appears to follow all of the open spec'd caldav stuff and be very compatible. UC Berkeley is rolling it out for the campus. I'm not sure what's involved for getting it up and running though. :( == Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:42:24 -0400 From: Peter Salzman Subject: [vox-tech] CalDAV To: vox-tech Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd like to be able to serve calendar events to Google Calendar, iPhone, Android, and BlackBerry users. I did some research and found that CalDAV is the protocol that I need to look at. Ubuntu has something called calendarserver which I think serves up CalDAV data. However, I've also read hints that this would work for Google Calendar users, but not necessarily for mobile phone users because the mobile phones use proprietary extensions. This is totally uncharted territory for me. I was wondering if anyone has done this, and if so, what's the scoop on serving calendars to mobile phone users. Thanks! Pete ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] CalDAV
I'd like to be able to serve calendar events to Google Calendar, iPhone, Android, and BlackBerry users. I did some research and found that CalDAV is the protocol that I need to look at. Ubuntu has something called calendarserver which I think serves up CalDAV data. However, I've also read hints that this would work for Google Calendar users, but not necessarily for mobile phone users because the mobile phones use proprietary extensions. This is totally uncharted territory for me. I was wondering if anyone has done this, and if so, what's the scoop on serving calendars to mobile phone users. Thanks! Pete ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
