[Vserver] VServer forum
Hi all! For anyone who is interested I have created a VServer forum on my site: http://vserver.meulie.net/ Regards, Evert ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
[Vserver] VServer forum
Hi all. As you might have seen, I am totally a newbie here. I would like to say something here though. I for once found it rather confusing to find the infor needed to get going with vservers. Without the help of many others here I could not get much done. However, I really welcome the idea of a Vserver forum because the benefits of sticky topics and distinct categories. Sticky topics would just pop right out of the pages when a user access a category. I also like the search features of all the forums that I have visited because I just simply do a search and all the related answers would come. Btw, not everybody knows how to use IRC and is on IRC. Not everybody would like to receive tons of emails everyday. Forum is just more user friendly and more accessible to newbies like me. And not everybody lives in the same time zone with me. Please don't feel offended by my comments because the mailing list is great and the responses are plenty but would it be good if we could spare those experts from answering the same questions again and again? Would it be better that newbies could use the forums to learn as much as possible before he would voice his questions? Would it be better if newbies could search the forums to find the answers quick while the experts are sound sleeping in other countries? I think a forum is just a win-win move for Vserver community as a whole. Best regards, Steven. ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:09:11PM +0200, Evert Meulie wrote: > Hi all! > > For anyone who is interested I have created a VServer forum on my site: > http://vserver.meulie.net/ thanks! I changed the entry to 'Unofficial' and asked to contact me at IRC, don't know when I will be there actually but ML is even better ... the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? basically I've tried to make the ML the one and only 'other' forum (besides the IRC channel), and I'm not convinced that we really need one besides that ... but I leave that to the community ... sidenote: when I tried your forum, it was dog-slow (which is something we could very likely improve if there is a demand for such a kind of forum) please let me know the reasoning behind the forum (e.g. rationale, advantages over ML, etc ...) don't get me wrong, I'm not vetoing this right now I'm just trying to figure the details ... TIA, Herbert > Regards, > Evert > > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
Hi! Well, my main reasoning was that there is no VServer Forum yet... There is a mailing list, but with mailing lists it's much more difficult to reply nicely to postings when you don't have the original message anymore. The forum does not have this problem. Here all messages & postings can be replied to indefinitely. But I agree with you, and we leave it up to the community whether a VServer forum will be endorsed. Regards, Evert Herbert Poetzl wrote: On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:09:11PM +0200, Evert Meulie wrote: Hi all! For anyone who is interested I have created a VServer forum on my site: http://vserver.meulie.net/ thanks! I changed the entry to 'Unofficial' and asked to contact me at IRC, don't know when I will be there actually but ML is even better ... the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? basically I've tried to make the ML the one and only 'other' forum (besides the IRC channel), and I'm not convinced that we really need one besides that ... but I leave that to the community ... sidenote: when I tried your forum, it was dog-slow (which is something we could very likely improve if there is a demand for such a kind of forum) please let me know the reasoning behind the forum (e.g. rationale, advantages over ML, etc ...) don't get me wrong, I'm not vetoing this right now I'm just trying to figure the details ... TIA, Herbert Regards, Evert ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
Evert wrote: > Well, my main reasoning was that there is no VServer Forum yet... There > is a mailing list, but with mailing lists it's much more difficult to > reply nicely to postings when you don't have the original message > anymore. The forum does not have this problem. Here all messages & > postings can be replied to indefinitely. > > But I agree with you, and we leave it up to the community whether a > VServer forum will be endorsed. A _well-organized_, active forum would be nice. IMHO, one of the main problems (_the_ main problem?) with linux-vserver is the lack of good documentation and support. No offense... I mean, Herbert is doing a great job, but for the average user, searching messages from old mailing list postings, IRC logs and poorly styled/"incomplete" web pages (the flower page being one example) is not the way to have it in the long run. Tor Rune Skoglund [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
> postings, IRC logs and poorly styled/"incomplete" web pages (the flower > page being one example) is not the way to have it in the long run. flower page rocks. Everyone and their brother creating their own forum is not the answer, there already is a vserver wiki, if you want to work on documentation - go update wiki. -- Key fingerprint = 40D0 9FFB 9939 7320 8294 05E0 BCC7 02C4 75CC 50D9 Total Existance Failure ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
Dariush Pietrzak,,, wrote: postings, IRC logs and poorly styled/"incomplete" web pages (the flower page being one example) is not the way to have it in the long run. flower page rocks. Well, thats a matter of opinion... For the "average user" I would think the view would be different... :) Everyone and their brother creating their own forum is not the answer, there already is a vserver wiki, if you want to work on documentation - go update wiki. Problem with the wiki is that there is no forum there. If one could incorporate some kind of forum there, it would be nice --- like e.g. the forum.gentoo.org, which I find extremely valueable. And btw, not _anyone_ has the required knowledge about vserver to write good documentation on the wiki anyway. Nothing is worse than wrong and outdated documentation... Tor Rune Skoglund [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
> Well, thats a matter of opinion... For the "average user" I would think > the view would be different... :) I have never seen this mythical "average user" you keep on talking about. I always thought that I'm him, but you seem to be implying that he's got different views then me. > >already is a vserver wiki, if you want to work on documentation - go update > >wiki. > Problem with the wiki is that there is no forum there. If one could > incorporate some kind AFAIK most wikis has 'discusion' panels for every page >> And btw, not _anyone_ has the required knowledge about vserver to write > good documentation on the wiki anyway. Nothing is worse than wrong and > outdated > documentation... well, fragmented and non-accessible documentation is worse. -- Key fingerprint = 40D0 9FFB 9939 7320 8294 05E0 BCC7 02C4 75CC 50D9 Total Existance Failure ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tor Rune Skoglund wrote: | And btw, not _anyone_ has the required knowledge about vserver to write | good documentation | on the wiki anyway. Nothing is worse than wrong and outdated | documentation... Which is one of the many problems with forums. A wiki can be changed by anyone who spots the mistakes, while a forum requires whoever wrote it or an admin to do it... - -- Daniel Hokka Zakrisson GPG id: 06723412 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDV1zUYTbdogZyNBIRAua8AJ4kapCL1vBOf2xfbNXCIqyVcQ406QCfdHFS +UygsODKddKr4NHAa/8WkhU= =co/q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
Dariush Pietrzak,,, wrote: >>Well, thats a matter of opinion... For the "average user" I would think >>the view would be different... :) > > I have never seen this mythical "average user" you keep on talking about. > I always thought that I'm him, but you seem to be implying that he's got > different views then me. I bet I'm more average than you - and to me, the flower page, is not particarly nice... :) Well, that's just my opinion thought. To my best memory I cannot remember any product I have used some much time on to get up and running correctly the latest years. Better documentation and an active forum surely would have helped _me_ a lot anyway. >>Problem with the wiki is that there is no forum there. If one could >>incorporate some kind > > AFAIK most wikis has 'discusion' panels for every page Then it's sad it isn't installed on linux-vserver's wiki...(?) >>>And btw, not _anyone_ has the required knowledge about vserver to write >> >>good documentation on the wiki anyway. Nothing is worse than wrong and >>outdated >>documentation... > > well, fragmented and non-accessible documentation is worse. linux-vserver has it all! :-) Just a final word from me; I would like to say that I am _very_ impressed with Herbert's and Enrico's and all those I cannot name and their work and support efforts on the mailing list, wiki and IRC, and linux-vserver generally. But if Linux-vserver is going to be big hit someone with the right knowledge has to write consistent and updated project documentation. Tor Rune Skoglund [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 08:30:11AM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? Mailing lists are a lot better than web forums (IMHO). I've dropped out of more than one community when they transferred to web forums from mailing lists (although some people might not think that's a bad thing ;-)) I don't answer many questions here (2 or 3 in the past few months only) so my opinion isn't too important! -- rgds Stephen ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Thursday 20 October 2005 06:59 am, Stephen Harris wrote: > On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 08:30:11AM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? > > Mailing lists are a lot better than web forums (IMHO). I've dropped > out of more than one community when they transferred to web forums > from mailing lists (although some people might not think that's a bad > thing ;-)) > > I don't answer many questions here (2 or 3 in the past few months only) > so my opinion isn't too important! > I have found both to be very helpful. Mailing lists are excellent but for me I find it difficult to wait through a search of tens of thousands of msgs for some content I am looking for. There is an extreme convenience in mailing lists in that, one.. they come into your home therefore seem more personal... two you can maintain your own 'database' of sorts to search at your liesure however it does get to be difficult when manipulating,say, 25,000 msgs. :) The linux-vserver project has, I believe, one of the most responsive mailing lists I have seen, and the irc is excellent for solving problems in real-time. I use the gentoo forum as an example. It is large, very active, and I have yet to do a search that did not result in a fast return on my search criteria. New content not covered was responded to quickly by many, some quite helpful and others not so much... just have to use judgement. To me forums seem less 'personal' in that I have to 'go' somewhere to get my answers and for that effort it still is not in real time as irc would be. I think the primary beauty of forums is topic organization and speed and ease of searches. However, in this case, a forum is just one more place to pay attention to. I personally think the mailing list and irc are sufficient for any discussion. both have their strong and weak points... what would be nice instead of an interactive forum, but a bit difficult to implement, would be to create some kind of parsing program to parse the entire mailing list archives into a database, then present the database data in 'forum' form for easy searching and reading. I believe this would answer a need for a 'forum style' facility, and would make finding answers *considerably* easier for everyone. I don't know of a topic that has not been resolved somewhere in the mailing list archives. Resolutions done on irc, if not covered in the mailiing list could be submitted to the database for inclusion, and by running this update program a few times a day looking for new data, the 'forum' facility would be updated almost in real time. I also believe in people having the freedom to create a forum if they wish, but it would be a personal thing run as many personal gentoo forums are and not officially sanctioned.. I think the developers have enough to do keeping up with mailing list and irc and I would never expect them to add more to their list to watch... what we need to do as users is to assist them by developing this huge wealth of data already existing in the mailing list archives and in irc logs into some kind of organized, easy to use, one-stop information facility like this forum-database idea. > -- > > rgds > Stephen > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver > -- Chuck "...and the hordes of M$*ft users descended upon me in their anger, and asked 'Why do you not get the viruses or the BlueScreensOfDeath or insecure system troubles and slowness or pay through the nose for an OS as *we* do?!!', and I answered...'I use Linux'. " The Book of John, chapter 1, page 1, and end of book ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:27:38AM -0400, Chuck wrote: > I have found both to be very helpful. Mailing lists are excellent but for me > I > find it difficult to wait through a search of tens of thousands of msgs for > some content I am looking for. There is an extreme convenience in mailing That's what a web engine is there for. The archives are world-visible. > lists in that, one.. they come into your home therefore seem more personal... They are also serialized, and do not require polling. Whenever I have to use a broken medium (such as e.g. Sveasoft, which is the only way they support their product), I find myself I have to enable email notification on responses to individual topics. Instead of having the answer delivered, I have to invoke a browser instance, and manually cut and paste the link (no, clicking doesn't work, because I read my mail from many places). Also, unlike web search engines, the forums' uniformly suck mossy rocks, both in speed and accuracy. > two you can maintain your own 'database' of sorts to search at your liesure > however it does get to be difficult when manipulating,say, 25,000 msgs. :) I don't find it difficult to manipulate well in excess of 100 k messages. The database is of primary value in case the original effort goes away, or data is destroyed by a disk crash with no backup (happens regularly). -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:27:38AM -0400, Chuck wrote: > I use the gentoo forum as an example. It is large, very active, and I have > yet *giggle* I offer tivocommunity and dealdatabase web forums as a counter example; most questions are responded to with "do a search" and two thirds of the search results are posts telling people to do a search! > both have their strong and weak points... what would be nice instead of an > interactive forum, but a bit difficult to implement, would be to create some > kind of parsing program to parse the entire mailing list archives into a > database, then present the database data in 'forum' form for easy searching Most mailing list software has a web interface for the archives of the list, and some provide a searchable interface. Hmm, we have an archive at http://list.linux-vserver.org/archive/vserver/ and http://archives.linux-vserver.org/ I don't see a "search" option there, but I guess we could always make google index the pages and then have a google search option :-) -- rgds Stephen ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Evert Meulie wrote: | Not entirely true... Anyone can reply to a posting that contains a | mistake... 8-) But the wrong information is still there. People like taking shortcuts, and reading replies seems like the long way around, since you already have your solution/explaination/whatever you were looking for. - -- Daniel Hokka Zakrisson GPG id: 06723412 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDV5uTYTbdogZyNBIRAtw4AJ9fdr/CmvJFfDFDHx9k5ETdaHnWSACeMS2B clSLpfeNqHbL5oSiHLQlAtQ= =Nr8q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
Stephen Harris wrote: On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:27:38AM -0400, Chuck wrote: ... and http://archives.linux-vserver.org/ I don't see a "search" option there, but I guess we could always make google index the pages and then have a google search option :-) hi there, it's already done by google :-) try this link: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=limit&num=10&hs=CNv&hl=en&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Flist.linux-vserver.org%2Farchive%2Fvserver%2F so we have our searchfunction happy search und finding :-) -- best regards gregor ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
RE: [Vserver] VServer forum
I like the maillist because it does not require anything from me (going to a website and looking for updates, etc). Guess that makes me really lazy :) I don't get time to visit all the sites I should each day, but when that new email notification icon is sitting therewell you know the rest. I do believe a web forum would open up vserver to more users (user friendly), modern looking, etc Perhaps something like the following is a option. The best of both worlds one could say I have never used it. http://www.mail2forum.com/ later sig -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Herbert Poetzl Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:30 AM To: Evert Meulie Cc: vserver@list.linux-vserver.org Subject: Re: [Vserver] VServer forum On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:09:11PM +0200, Evert Meulie wrote: > Hi all! > > For anyone who is interested I have created a VServer forum on my site: > http://vserver.meulie.net/ thanks! I changed the entry to 'Unofficial' and asked to contact me at IRC, don't know when I will be there actually but ML is even better ... the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? basically I've tried to make the ML the one and only 'other' forum (besides the IRC channel), and I'm not convinced that we really need one besides that ... but I leave that to the community ... sidenote: when I tried your forum, it was dog-slow (which is something we could very likely improve if there is a demand for such a kind of forum) please let me know the reasoning behind the forum (e.g. rationale, advantages over ML, etc ...) don't get me wrong, I'm not vetoing this right now I'm just trying to figure the details ... TIA, Herbert > Regards, > Evert > > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
RE: [Vserver] VServer forum
I also noticed that if vserver wanted to go one step further xoops + newbb + CM2F addon (http://dev.xoops.org/modules/xfmod/project/?xoopscm2f) postnuke + PNphpBB + CM2F addon (http://mods.postnuke.com/Article2569.html) I'm sure mambo and other may have this functionality as well sig -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Magnuson, Sig Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:36 AM To: vserver@list.linux-vserver.org Subject: RE: [Vserver] VServer forum I like the maillist because it does not require anything from me (going to a website and looking for updates, etc). Guess that makes me really lazy :) I don't get time to visit all the sites I should each day, but when that new email notification icon is sitting therewell you know the rest. I do believe a web forum would open up vserver to more users (user friendly), modern looking, etc Perhaps something like the following is a option. The best of both worlds one could say I have never used it. http://www.mail2forum.com/ later sig -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Herbert Poetzl Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:30 AM To: Evert Meulie Cc: vserver@list.linux-vserver.org Subject: Re: [Vserver] VServer forum On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:09:11PM +0200, Evert Meulie wrote: > Hi all! > > For anyone who is interested I have created a VServer forum on my site: > http://vserver.meulie.net/ thanks! I changed the entry to 'Unofficial' and asked to contact me at IRC, don't know when I will be there actually but ML is even better ... the main question is, do we need 'another forum'? basically I've tried to make the ML the one and only 'other' forum (besides the IRC channel), and I'm not convinced that we really need one besides that ... but I leave that to the community ... sidenote: when I tried your forum, it was dog-slow (which is something we could very likely improve if there is a demand for such a kind of forum) please let me know the reasoning behind the forum (e.g. rationale, advantages over ML, etc ...) don't get me wrong, I'm not vetoing this right now I'm just trying to figure the details ... TIA, Herbert > Regards, > Evert > > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer forum
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 04:31:02PM +0200, Gregor Schreier wrote: > Stephen Harris wrote: > > >On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:27:38AM -0400, Chuck wrote: > >... > > > >and > > > > http://archives.linux-vserver.org/ > > > >I don't see a "search" option there, but I guess we could always make > >google index the pages and then have a google search option :-) > > > hi there, > > it's already done by google :-) > > try this link: > > http://www.google.com/search?as_q=limit&num=10&hs=CNv&hl=en&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Flist.linux-vserver.org%2Farchive%2Fvserver%2F > > so we have our searchfunction > happy search und finding :-) well, I added this one a few weeks ago (linked from the wiki page): http://www.13thfloor.at/vserver/search/ best, Herbert > -- > best regards > gregor > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
