Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden? - FIXED!!

[Neil Houghton]

Ronni,

You are a deadset legend!

The Apple link was very interesting and really good because I could see that
others had had the same problem after upgrading.

Because of this, I was less worried that this was a symptom of a deeper
problem and more confident to just address the visibility issue.

Yes, I know that this doesn't necessarily mean that there ISN'T any other
problem (just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T out to
get you!) - but I'm less worried, anyway!.

First try didn't work because SetFile wasn't found - so I had to install the
developer tools from the Leopard install disk. (So now I've got all sorts of
interesting things in my "Developer" folder!)

Ran all the SetFile commands except for mach_kernal (which wasn't visible
anyway on my machine) and (as per the discussion) everything except etc, tmp
& var became invisible straight away.

Deleting /Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices* and rebooting fixed
those. (as per another poster, I had more than 2 of these files but deleted
them all).

So now the only folders/files I can see at the hard drive level are the ones
I SHOULD see.


Thanks again, Ronni.

Cheers


Neil
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

on 31/7/08 3:46 PM, Ronda Brown at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> 
> Hi Neil,
> 
>  From > 
> " fixed this problem by running:"
> 
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /bin
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /cores
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /etc
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /mach_kernel
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /private
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /sbin
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /tmp
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /usr
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /Volumes
> sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /var
> 
> then deleting /Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices* (2 files) and
> rebooting.
> 
> Most of the files/folders became invisible right after running
> SetFile. The symbolic links (/etc, /tmp and /var) became invisible
> after the reboot.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ronni
> 





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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Ronda Brown]

On 31/07/2008, at 3:06 PM, Neil Houghton wrote:


Thanks to Bob & Paul for their input & suggestions.

Progress so far:

1) SHOWING/HIDING HIDDEN FILES.

I checked out "Invisibles" but was a bit put off by some of the  
feedback.

Looked a bit further and found a suggested applescript, which was:

set dotVisible to do shell script "defaults read com.apple.Finder
AppleShowAllFiles"
if dotVisible = "0" then
   do shell script "defaults write com.apple.Finder  
AppleShowAllFiles 1"

else
   do shell script "defaults write com.apple.Finder  
AppleShowAllFiles 0"

end if
tell application "Finder" to quit
delay 1
tell application "Finder" to activate

With the suggestion to save it as an application.

After Ronni's recent reply regarding applescript, I was quite keen  
to give

this a try - so I created "Toggle visibility.app" - my first ever
application!

Unfortunately, it didn't initially work for me - I don't remember the
precise error message but it was something like it couldn't find a
com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles pair.

After a bit more searching I found this article:

and tried its simple terminal command of:

defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles YES

This worked a treat (you have to relaunch finder for it to take  
effect) and

changing the YES to NO toggles the visibility back off.

And, interestingly, my application now works - I'm presuming that  
when I
first tried it there was no "AppleShowAllFiles" to read but now  
(after my
first terminal command wrote it) it can now find it to read and then  
toggle

it.

So, all very interesting but back to the problem:

2) CHECK OF VISIBLE/HIDDEN FILES

I updated my old G5 iMac to 10.5.4 so I could do a direct comparison  
of the

two machines both with the same Leopard version and noted:

A)there was one file on the G5 that was not on the INTEL:  
"mach.sym" -

I'm assuming that this may be a PPC specific system file.

B)   other than the two used added folders imported by Migration  
assistant

there are two items on the INTEL that are not on the G5:
file ".com.apple.timemachine.supported (from old Mac)" and:
folder "Developer"
I'm not concerned with these items - the file is normally invisible  
and is
obviously (as it says) a record from the previous Mac and the folder  
is
presumably there because at some stage these developer tools were  
installed

( I may have been playing - I don't remember!)

C)  the following folders/aliases are on both machines but are  
invisible on

the G5 and visible on the INTEL:
   bin, cores, etc, private, sbin, tmp, usr, var, Volumes
THESE are the file I am concerned about why are they visible and how  
do I

make them invisible!?

D)  the following items which I had noted were visible folders on the
external backup are invisible on both machines but, whereas on the  
external
backup they have standard folder icons, on both machines they have a  
sort of
custom volume icon (like when you mount a disc image but with a grey  
case

with a white outline of three men holding hands!): dev, home & net
Same on both machines so OK.

So... No duplicate files - just what I would expect to be there -  
just that

the files in C) are not invisible like they should be!

Anybody got any further thoughts on this?


Hi Neil,

From 

" fixed this problem by running:"

sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /bin
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /cores
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /etc
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /mach_kernel
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /private
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /sbin
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /tmp
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /usr
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V /Volumes
sudo /Developer/Tools/SetFile -P -a V /var

then deleting /Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices* (2 files) and  
rebooting.


Most of the files/folders became invisible right after running  
SetFile. The symbolic links (/etc, /tmp and /var) became invisible  
after the reboot.


Cheers,
Ronni

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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Neil Houghton]

Just one other thing on this.

I found this article:



Which says:

> After the new Leopard installation is complete, the Apple support doc suggests
> that users install the iMac Software Update 1.3 for Leopard. I asked Eriks to
> check whether Software Update flagged this update but it didn¹t; so be sure to
> install the update if you have a new 20-inch and 24-inch Late 2007 model iMac.
> The note said the problem machines have either a 2GHZ, 2.4GHz and 2.8GHz
> processor.

And also references:



Although I had solved the log-in problem, the Apple article said the iMac
Software Update 1.3 for Leopard WAS recommended for my machine and since the
Zdnet article said that Software Update wouldn't flag it (why not!!) I went
ahead and downloaded and installed it. I then re-ran the 10.5.4 combo
updater.

None of this seems to have had any effect!!

Cheers


Neil
Who is getting more confused by the day!
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Neil Houghton]

Thanks to Bob & Paul for their input & suggestions.

Progress so far:

1) SHOWING/HIDING HIDDEN FILES.

I checked out "Invisibles" but was a bit put off by some of the feedback.
Looked a bit further and found a suggested applescript, which was:

set dotVisible to do shell script "defaults read com.apple.Finder
AppleShowAllFiles"
if dotVisible = "0" then
do shell script "defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles 1"
else
do shell script "defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles 0"
end if
tell application "Finder" to quit
delay 1
tell application "Finder" to activate

With the suggestion to save it as an application.

After Ronni's recent reply regarding applescript, I was quite keen to give
this a try - so I created "Toggle visibility.app" - my first ever
application!

Unfortunately, it didn't initially work for me - I don't remember the
precise error message but it was something like it couldn't find a
com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles pair.

After a bit more searching I found this article:

and tried its simple terminal command of:

defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles YES

This worked a treat (you have to relaunch finder for it to take effect) and
changing the YES to NO toggles the visibility back off.

And, interestingly, my application now works - I'm presuming that when I
first tried it there was no "AppleShowAllFiles" to read but now (after my
first terminal command wrote it) it can now find it to read and then toggle
it.

So, all very interesting but back to the problem:

2) CHECK OF VISIBLE/HIDDEN FILES

I updated my old G5 iMac to 10.5.4 so I could do a direct comparison of the
two machines both with the same Leopard version and noted:

A)there was one file on the G5 that was not on the INTEL: "mach.sym" -
I'm assuming that this may be a PPC specific system file.

B)   other than the two used added folders imported by Migration assistant
there are two items on the INTEL that are not on the G5:
 file ".com.apple.timemachine.supported (from old Mac)" and:
 folder "Developer"
I'm not concerned with these items - the file is normally invisible and is
obviously (as it says) a record from the previous Mac and the folder is
presumably there because at some stage these developer tools were installed
( I may have been playing - I don't remember!)

C)  the following folders/aliases are on both machines but are invisible on
the G5 and visible on the INTEL:
bin, cores, etc, private, sbin, tmp, usr, var, Volumes
THESE are the file I am concerned about why are they visible and how do I
make them invisible!?

D)  the following items which I had noted were visible folders on the
external backup are invisible on both machines but, whereas on the external
backup they have standard folder icons, on both machines they have a sort of
custom volume icon (like when you mount a disc image but with a grey case
with a white outline of three men holding hands!): dev, home & net
Same on both machines so OK.

So... No duplicate files - just what I would expect to be there - just that
the files in C) are not invisible like they should be!

Anybody got any further thoughts on this?


TIA


Neil
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


on 29/7/08 10:59 AM, Robert Howells at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>>> There is an App " Invisibles "  which can make your
>>> invisible . files .. visible and then make them
>>> Invisible when you require it .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You could use that to expose the currently invisible files , but
>>>   identify   the current files so you know which is what .
>>> 
>> Hmmm, thanks Bob, I'll check that out. Maybe it will just let me
>> make the
>> offending files invisible... But is that really what I want to do?
>> Is the
>> visibility the problem or the symptom?!
> 
> 
> OR   Are these visible only because they are some sort of duplicates ?
> 
> I rather thought that if you can give them an identity so you know
> which files they are
> when you applied the visible option with that App you would see the
> real files
> plus these files and thus confirm these are only copies ,   ??? non
> working copies   ???
> 
> Bob
> 



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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Paul Kitchener]

Robert Howells wrote:

There is an App " Invisibles "  which can make your
invisible . files .. visible and then make them
Invisible when you require it .



You could use that to expose the currently invisible files , but
  identify   the current files so you know which is what .


Hmmm, thanks Bob, I'll check that out. Maybe it will just let me make the
offending files invisible... But is that really what I want to do? Is the
visibility the problem or the symptom?!



OR   Are these visible only because they are some sort of duplicates ?

I rather thought that if you can give them an identity so you know which 
files they are
when you applied the visible option with that App you would see the real 
files
plus these files and thus confirm these are only copies ,   ??? non 
working copies   ???



I would have thought they'd have trouble existing beside the originals 
bearing the same name.

I think it is unlikely they are copies.

To really see '/' open Terminal then type:

cd /

Then

ls

This will list the folders in question and reveal any possible 
duplicates (I would imagine).


For a double check get it to reveal ALL by typing

ls -la

Pressing the 'return' key after each command of course. These are 
non-destructive commands so you can feel safe using them.


If I were in your predicament Neil, that is with unsatisfying results 
like the ones you have after a rebuild.

I would be suspecting it might be skeletons-in-the-closet.

I personally do no migrating when moving 'Home', I rely on fresh starts 
and gradual rebuilding of the environment each time, important folders 
and apps first then on down the priority scale as the needs arise.


This spreads out what is a fair amount of work.

I find this greatly aids clarity and concentration and gives me 
opportunities to asses my past experiences and enact positive change 
along the way.


Change I might not have thought up if I had relied on cloning and 
recovery tools to do the work.

Remember, my main benefit is stability, not change.
There's no OS like a fresh OS ;-)

Hope this helps, I just thought I should share my experience of working 
without Operating System backups.



Good luck
Paul

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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Robert Howells]

There is an App " Invisibles "  which can make your
invisible . files .. visible and then make them
Invisible when you require it .



You could use that to expose the currently invisible files , but
  identify   the current files so you know which is what .

Hmmm, thanks Bob, I'll check that out. Maybe it will just let me  
make the
offending files invisible... But is that really what I want to do?  
Is the

visibility the problem or the symptom?!



OR   Are these visible only because they are some sort of duplicates ?

I rather thought that if you can give them an identity so you know  
which files they are
when you applied the visible option with that App you would see the  
real files
plus these files and thus confirm these are only copies ,   ??? non  
working copies   ???


Bob







Bob





Neil
--
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Neil Houghton]

on 28/7/08 4:15 PM, Robert Howells at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> On 28/07/2008, at 3:24 PM, Neil Houghton wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> (A) On my G5 iMac, with a fairly new Leopard installation (currently
>> updated
>> to 10.5.3) and just one user, I see 4 folders and one alias:
>>Applications
>>Library
>>System
>>User Guides and Information (alias)
>>Users
>> 
>> (B) On the final Tiger clone of my 24" Intel iMac prior to installing
>> Leopard, I see the same plus 3 additional folders
>>Software Downloads (user added folder)
>>To Sort (user added folder)
>>dev - seems to be empty (or contents hidden)
>> I don't know what the dev folder is or does (Sharing and Permissions
>> shows
>> system, wheel & everyone - all as read only).
>> 
>> (C) Currently the upgraded 24" Intel iMac shows the 4 folders + one
>> alias
>> that I can see on the G5, plus the two user added folders that I can
>> see on
>> the Tiger clone (presumably imported by Migration Assistant) PLUS
>> folders:
>>bin
>>cores
>>Developer
>>private
>>sbin
>>usr
>>Volumes
>> PLUS aliases (all to folders in private):
>>etc
>>tmp
>>var
>> 
>> (D) The bootable clone of (C) shows all the visible files/aliases as
>> (C)
>> PLUS folders:
>>dev (as on B)
>>home
>>net
>> 
>> Now, my current thinking is that:
>> 
>> 1) Various system folders/files which are normally hidden in Finder
>> view
>> show in the view of the bootable clone on the external firewire
>> drive -
>> which is why I see dev, home & net on (D) but not (C). I think this is
>> pretty normal?
> 
> Not unusual !
> 

Good! That's what I thought!

>> 
>> 2)  "Developer" and "Volumes" have the capitalised first letter and
>> "Developer has a custom folder icon, so I'm assuming that they SHOULD
>> actually be visible.
> 
> err  No !   Not on my 10.5.2
> 

Well, no, they weren't on  my original Tiger installation nor on my PPC
10.5.3 (on the G5 iMac. I was assuming they had been installed, perhaps, as
part of the 10.5.4 update?

I figured the "Developer" folder was meant to be visible not only because it
was first letter capitalised but also because it had one of those custom
folder icons (like Applications, Library, System & Users - except that the
"logo" on this folder icon is a little hammer) - why give it a pretty custom
icon if its meant to be hidden?

With the "Volumes" folder I wasn't so confident except for the first letter
capitalisation - all the other "hidden" files seem to be just lowercase
names.

If it helps:

The contents of "Developer" is a folder called "Applications" containing a
folder called "Utilities" containing aliases to two applications; "Applet
Launcher" and "Jar Bundler" both original application files reside at
/usr/share/java/Tools - so I figure the "Developer" path to the aliases is
just provided for convenience to let you get at the applications since the
direct path would be hidden if "usr" was hidden.

The contents of "Volumes" is just two aliases to the mounted volumes - in my
case, at present, the computer hard drive and the external firewire drive.
Seems kind of pointless when they are in the Finder sidebar but it could be
useful if you have unchecked the option to show them in the sidebar and
don't choose to display them on the desktop.

Anyway, I'm not too bothered about "Developer" or "Volumes" (provided them
appearing is not associated with some deeper problem) as their contents do
not seem to invite trouble!

>> 
>> 3) I'm assuming that bin, cores, private, sbin, usr, etc, tmp & var
>> are
>> system folders/files which should normally be hidden (like dev, home
>> & net)
>> - ie I could expect to see them on (D) but not (C) - but that
>> somehow the
>> updgrade/migration has rendered them visible.
> 
> 
> I guess the real question is ... are these duplicates ?
> or are they working files ?
> ( which I would not expect . I think you have copied them )
> 
> AND are your working files hidden now like they should be .
> 
Yes, the million dollar question!

I was assuming they were not duplicates because of the straight name (as
opposed to, say, bin(1) or something)

I did think, as you do, that I HAD copied them - but that they had
overwritten the original files and, in the process somehow become visible. -
however, I have no factual basis for this opinion!!

> 
> 
> There is an App " Invisibles "  which can make your
> invisible . files .. visible and then make them
> Invisible when you require it .
> 
> 
> 
> You could use that to expose the currently invisible files , but
>   identify   the current files so you know which is what .
> 
Hmmm, thanks Bob, I'll check that out. Maybe it will just let me make the
offending files invisible... But is that really what I want to do? Is the
visibility the problem or the symptom?!

> Bob
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I should say that I HAVE repaired permissions to no effect.
>> 
>> I

Re: Leopard Update Problems - hidden files not hidden?

[Robert Howells]

On 28/07/2008, at 3:24 PM, Neil Houghton wrote:




(A) On my G5 iMac, with a fairly new Leopard installation (currently  
updated

to 10.5.3) and just one user, I see 4 folders and one alias:
   Applications
   Library
   System
   User Guides and Information (alias)
   Users

(B) On the final Tiger clone of my 24" Intel iMac prior to installing
Leopard, I see the same plus 3 additional folders
   Software Downloads (user added folder)
   To Sort (user added folder)
   dev - seems to be empty (or contents hidden)
I don't know what the dev folder is or does (Sharing and Permissions  
shows

system, wheel & everyone - all as read only).

(C) Currently the upgraded 24" Intel iMac shows the 4 folders + one  
alias
that I can see on the G5, plus the two user added folders that I can  
see on
the Tiger clone (presumably imported by Migration Assistant) PLUS  
folders:

   bin
   cores
   Developer
   private
   sbin
   usr
   Volumes
PLUS aliases (all to folders in private):
   etc
   tmp
   var

(D) The bootable clone of (C) shows all the visible files/aliases as  
(C)

PLUS folders:
   dev (as on B)
   home
   net

Now, my current thinking is that:

1) Various system folders/files which are normally hidden in Finder  
view
show in the view of the bootable clone on the external firewire  
drive -

which is why I see dev, home & net on (D) but not (C). I think this is
pretty normal?


Not unusual !



2)  "Developer" and "Volumes" have the capitalised first letter and
"Developer has a custom folder icon, so I'm assuming that they SHOULD
actually be visible.


err  No !   Not on my 10.5.2



3) I'm assuming that bin, cores, private, sbin, usr, etc, tmp & var  
are
system folders/files which should normally be hidden (like dev, home  
& net)
- ie I could expect to see them on (D) but not (C) - but that  
somehow the

updgrade/migration has rendered them visible.



I guess the real question is ... are these duplicates ?
or are they working files ?
( which I would not expect . I think you have copied them )

AND are your working files hidden now like they should be .



There is an App " Invisibles "  which can make your  
invisible . files .. visible and then make them

Invisible when you require it .



You could use that to expose the currently invisible files , but
 identify   the current files so you know which is what .

Bob






I should say that I HAVE repaired permissions to no effect.

It strikes me that not only is having these files visible confusing,  
it is

potentially dangerous (easier for accidents to happen!).

Any ideas how to restore the default visibilities for these files -  
or is it

a sign of deeper problems?


TIA (hopefully!)



Neil
--
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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