Re: [Warzone-dev] Mods considered harmful considered harmful

2009-03-19 Thread Dennis Schridde
Am Donnerstag, 19. März 2009 11:13:10 schrieb Gerard Krol:
> Dennis Schridde wrote:
> > Multiple mods:
> > Morrowind and Oblivion (sorry, again...) have some mods which are rather
> > "metamods". They combine several others into one.
>
> I think it is good to limit the game to load just one mod. Like you
> said, if people want to run multiple mods, they will have to create a
> new mod for that, or devise some sort of package management system. Oh,
> and mods should ONLY work in "vanilla" (no custom scripts/tech tree
> mods) multiplayer and skirmish games.
>
> We DO need to add support for network games with mods however. The game
> needs to make sure everyone has the same mod. (by checking the md5 of
> the .wz?)
Give each mod a version number. imo by far superior to any hashing.

And we can just transfer the darn files inside the .wz archive. It is not at 
all necessary to introduce hacks to figure out which archive [...]

> Also mods should just plain be in the "mods" directory. By the way, does
> anyone else think we've got a really messed up directory structure for
> the data as well?
Yes, but it always was like that... ;)

> Zarel wrote:
> > I do think we should merge mp.wz and warzone.wz
> > back together.
>
> +1
> I think it is really annoying for people when they have finished the
> campaign they will have to learn an almost completely different game.
> And it complicates stuff for us.
Glad everyone agrees. Maybe we can finally finish what I began a few years 
ago... Though it requires some decisions this time, as either campaign or mp 
will have to change on one way or the other.


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Re: [Warzone-dev] Mods considered harmful considered harmful

2009-03-19 Thread Gerard Krol
Per Inge Mathisen wrote:
> Popular suggested or created modifications
> to the game rules quickly become integrated into the core rules,
> draining the pool of mods available for players.
>   
True, but if the mods would not have been there, would the same changes 
have been included in the game? Mods mostly concern changes like 
graphics, balancing and new game modes. Hardcore developers love too 
look at the code too much to bother with that. (I probably won't be 
touching the terrain textures again for example)
> The problem was that a generalized code engine that supports all kinds
> of strange rules is inherently more difficult to maintain, and very
> much more difficult to write an actual, fun game on top of.
I agree that we should be careful not to become a victim of the "Inner 
platform effect" [1]. People do not want all those choices, they just 
want something that's simple, fast, and intuitive. If they really want 
to do complicated stuff there is always the source.
I would really like to have something akin to the Warcraft 3 map editor. 
(the unreal tournament map editor was also way too much fun) Just make a 
map, place units and buildings, do some modifications to the tech tree 
and perhaps use a few predefined triggers to do a few predefined actions 
(suggested set: the minimum required to make a tower defense).

Dennis Schridde wrote:
> Multiple mods:
> Morrowind and Oblivion (sorry, again...) have some mods which are rather 
> "metamods". They combine several others into one. 
I think it is good to limit the game to load just one mod. Like you 
said, if people want to run multiple mods, they will have to create a 
new mod for that, or devise some sort of package management system. Oh, 
and mods should ONLY work in "vanilla" (no custom scripts/tech tree 
mods) multiplayer and skirmish games.

We DO need to add support for network games with mods however. The game 
needs to make sure everyone has the same mod. (by checking the md5 of 
the .wz?)

Also mods should just plain be in the "mods" directory. By the way, does 
anyone else think we've got a really messed up directory structure for 
the data as well?

Zarel wrote:
> I do think we should merge mp.wz and warzone.wz
> back together.
+1
I think it is really annoying for people when they have finished the 
campaign they will have to learn an almost completely different game. 
And it complicates stuff for us.

- Gerard

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner-Platform_Effect

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